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Calling All Non-Dairy Peaty's

Discussion in 'Diet' started by Dutchie, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Hey everyone,

    Couple of days ago I noticed that certain foods I crave daily seem to really do me good. Simultaneously,I discovered that these foods correlate with beneficial foods for my bloodtype (O positive),according to the Bloodtype diet.
    I know the Bloodtype Diet has been debunked by several people,but since I'm still dealing with bloating/gas and other problems I was thinking of maybe trying it for a while.
    Many foods listed as detrimental I already cut out a long time ago,but it would mean cutting out dairy (and oranges) apart from some goatcheese occasionally.
    I already have cut out lots of cowdairy products,especially the fatty ones but still eat fatfree yoghurt daily for breakfast and make some chocolate milk with skim milk.

    So,I was wondering if there are non-dairy Peat (inspired) members here? And if so,if you would be willing to list what you eat in a day?so I can get some ideas for swapping out the yoghurt.
    And lastly,do you still pay attention to the calcium:phosphorus ratio in general...like how do you go about it?(since dairy is a vital soutce of calcium,I'm thinking you need to swap it for certain fruits,kale/spinach,broccoli?)
     
  2. tara

    tara Member

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    I'm drinking lots of milk now, but earlier i seemed to react badly to milk in the past, and had to start with small quantities, It was harder to get enough good protein. I ate more eggs and meat, and supplemented with oystershell powder for protein, and oj jellies for gelatine, nad was using gelatinous cuts of meat often. I still eat some meat and eggs regularly, and still use these supplements, but a bit less oyster shell now that I'm getting in more milk. I think progest-e helped me use milk better. I still have occassioonal days when milk doesn't seem to serve me well, but overall I am very pleased I can drink it again.
    If I were you, I would consider trying eliminating milk for a short time - a few days - and see if you notice a significant improvement. If you don't, get back to the milk quickly before your body forgets how to process it. If you do notice improvements, consider trying the milk again from time to time to see if you can handling better in the future.
     
  3. OP
    Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Thanx tara.:)
    I totally forgot about the fact that my body migth 'forget' how to process food,when cutting out. Now,I don't really drink much milk anyway,so it's easy for me to cut out. I think I migth keep the yoghurt in some longer so I keep getting beneficial bacteria in,once I figured out how to replace the bacteria issue,I'll slowly try to remove the yoghurt.
    I think sticking to goatcheese/sheepcheese once in a while/as a condiment will probably be fine.
    So,as you've mentioned it comes down to thyroid function.....which is the overall culprit,especially with cowdairy,sometimes it raises thyroid&digestion and sometimes it creates chaos.
     
  4. pboy

    pboy Member

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    hey dutchit, what type of milk are you getting? I find that quality matters so much...I only buy this low temp organic grass milk now, and I digest it easier than
    I digested milk growing up as a kid (commercial). Also the added vitamin A is a pretty common, almost certain, allergen. I think when I first started using dairy again, I started with a low lactose whey and cheese, the whey isn't ideal but it might have acclimated my body. Within a week or less, I could already drink plenty of milk without problem, but it was the high quality. You cant rule out that your GI problems are from something besides milk also...and yogurt is actually more indigestible and gas producing than milk itself.

    The only way to have a positive cal/phosphorus ratio without dairy is to consume most of your protein from green vegetables, which would be a huge amount...like 8-10 cooked cups full, or use tofu (which is made with calcium sulfate, giving it a positive ratio), the tofu has pufa and some anti nutrients though. There are some spices that have a good ratio but like vegetables youd have to use a lot, and it might be harsh on stomach if you do...but like, all the seeds in the carrot/dill family are positive calcium, such as cumin, coriander, dill see, celery seed, fennel, anise...as well as basic leaf herbs like basil, oregano, any other...and cinnamon. Last bet would be to supplement, but bioavailability is questionable. Spring / Well / Mineral waters also have a positive ratio as they have no phosphorus, so if you cook or brew anything you could use that. Its quite tough these days without planning and a decent amount of money and food availability. As for root vegetables, carbohydrate sources, most fruit that you can remove the seeds easy, carrots, and sweet potatoes (without the peel) have a near neutral ratio

    also wanted to add, turnip, rutabaga, and parsnip are slightly higher in calcium actually, but they have potential goitrogens so I might not eat every day. Also unhulled sesame seeds and poppy seeds are higher in calcium, they actually have a lot...but are high in PUFA, really high, and the calcium is in the bran layer so it probably in reality isn't that bioavailable
     
  5. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    [​IMG]

    But seriously it looks like Ray Peat has stopped non-skimmed milk completely.
     
  6. OP
    Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Thanx for your reply Pboy.:)
    I completely agree with you that quality matters. I buy organic skim milk and yoghurt,but the cows probably aren't entirely grassfed.
    I once had raw milk and honestly I found it disgusting,so I never looked at that. I suspect that the type of fat in cowdairy is already a strain on my body&digestive system,that's why I switched to (virtually) fatfree.
    The last couple of days I noticed that after having eaten yoghurt or (chocolate)milk (I make it myself,so no gums in there),I feel this pain in my left side a little lower beneath my ribs. It also seems like my stomach bloats up more&longer,with the yoghurt being the less evil,I suspect bc of the probiotic bacteria.
    I'm thinking it migth be the lactose/milksugars.
    Anyway,I don't seem to have such problems with goatcheese and occasional sheep cheese. I think bc it also has another type of fatty acid composition and the cheese doesn't have (much) carbs.

    I wasn't about to plan on eating starchy rootveggies a lot,except for some red beets since they're composed of sugar and not so much starch if any.
    Starch hinders my digestion as well.
    I have no idea if cooking/sauteeing/roasting carrots makes the starch convert to sugar or that they're less starchy raw?

    And,I love using blackstrap molasses as a stirfry sauce. I also got maple syrup.
    So,they're some calciumrich/low phosphorus sources as well.:)
     
  7. LucyL

    LucyL Member

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    That sounds good. Do you use it with other ingredients? Or by itself? I know Peats not big on molasses because of the impurities, and high iron content, but I try to use occasionally because its such a good source of copper.
     
  8. Katty

    Katty Member

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    Hey Dutchie-
    If you need to cut back on dairy for a while, you can use gelatin as a protein source during that time.
    Also, have you tried egg shell calcium? It's pretty easy to make and might be a way to get your calcium in if you need to cut back on dairy for a bit.
     
  9. OP
    Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    I drop in a spoon when I'm making a stirfry,which usually is Cod/Alaskan Pollock with a sliced red bell pepper,fresh mango chunks sprinkled with Cayenne pepper.
    I was thinking of making gummies with the molasses+salt,bc the two of them combined together into making gummies ,I think will come close taste&texturewise to a typical Dutch candy called 'drop".
    If you water down bl.molasses with enough salt,it makes for a good alternative to soysauce too.:)
     
  10. OP
    Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Hi Katty,
    Thanx for the suggestions.:)
    The eggshel calcium didn't work so wonderful,possibly bc I can't get good-sourced eggs.
    The gelatin idea I like,I was thinking of that already,but it's really expensive over here. Also apparently gelatin isn't as high in calcium as is being proclaimed. A while ago I read an entire article about it on a blog,but it's still better than nothing! and I like gummies,even though they don't hold so long,at least in my experience.
    Luckily some other foods that I really like have a higher ca:ph ratio too,like blueberries,romaine lettuce,spinach,kale,pineapple.:)

    All in all I suspect that a bit of goat&sheepcheese is fine,it's the cowdairy and I guess lactose that are more problematic digestivewise.
     
  11. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    I don't consume dairy or meat.
    Dairy, if its full fat will raise estrogen levels in your body( bescause dietary fat raises estrogen, saturated or not ) and low fat milk is higher in estrogen the whole milk, plus there's no way to be sure the high tryptophan in milk or cheese is actually converting to B3 instead of Serotonin etc..
    Meat sucks because of being high in anti thyroid aminos, crappy calcium/phosphorus ratio, polyamines, "PHiP"( chemical created during high temp cooking of meat that activates estrogen receptors in the body = raises estrogen levels), as well as endotoxins inside the meat that just add to the endotoxins we already create ourselves etc...

    I Eat the following:
    Plenty of different fruits/juices, well cooked potatoes, lots of salt, broccoli, small brazil nut ( selenium), some eggshell powder, :rockout raw carrots, pepsi or coke, maybe some B6, B12, Zinc, Vitamin E, magnesium oil whenever I feel I need them.

    I feel its to risky to eat most animal products anymore with all the toxic crap thats in them, the earth is polluted to hell, farmers feed the animals all kinds of nasty crap, and unfortunately the animals are full of it because of that. I prefer not to burden my body with extra estrogen, endotoxin, dioxins, etc.

    Ray has said that keto acids ( from potato, and probably lots of other fuits ) can supply the protein needed, and if B12 status is good the body can convert Beta carotene to true vitamin A.

    Please don't argue with me about the way I eat, I'm not here to argue, Just stating what I eat and why, eat the way you want and I will eat the way I want. I have fought obesity all my life and estrogen dominance, eating this way has lowered my estrogen IMMENSELY and Raised my testosterone, and I'm very lean, for the first time in my life, eating as much as I want.

    I FEEL FANTASTIC... enough said. :D
     
  12. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    I can't remember the last time I ate a steak either. I'm just saying.
     
  13. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    tca300, glad to hear you feel fantastic and you've gained such great benefits. Good for you! :)

    If you don't mind sharing, how long did it take for you to lean out, how many calories on average do you eat per day and how many years have you been eating your current diet?
     
  14. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    I eat anywhere from 2800-4000 or so calories a day, I never restrict food, I eat when I'm hungry and eat until I'm satisfied. It took a couple months to get lean but have still lost a little since then. It will depend on how active you are, if your very sedentary it could take a year or more to lose 30 or so pounds, but ray says losing weight slowly is best anyways. If you exercise it will come off a lot quicker. I have been doing my current diet for several months, but have been eating lower fat for over a year.
    When only getting like 10 or so grams of fat TOTAL per day and getting most calories from carbs its very hard to get fat, almost impossible unless you have some liver or pancreas abnormality.
    For instance a typical male can store about 15 grams of carbs for every kilogram of bodyweight, and THEN burn about 500 more on top of that before the conversion of carbs to fat adds to your belly, legs, hips or wherever. So I could technically eat 1600 grams of carbs before their conversion to fat adds to my waist,( carbs if overfed will burn themselves up at a higher rate and be burned off as heat ) and mind you I would have to keep that up day in and day out... I dont know too many people who can eat anywhere near that, especially on a daily basis.

    The reason people think carbs make you fat is because They add carbs to their diet but keep the fat intake too high, and as we know the human body prefers carbs to fat as fuel so the body will burn the carbs first and then store the fat ( if energy needs are met with carbs ) then carbs get blamed. If people would eat a TRUE low fat diet, they would lose weight and remain slender even if they ate more calories than their body needs, ( to a certain extent anyways, 7000 calories of carbs will probably put the chunk on ) anywho, I hope that helps!
     
  15. tara

    tara Member

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    Hi tca, out of curiousity, have you estimated approximate daily protein + ketoacid protein equivalents?
     
  16. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    How do you get four-thousand calories from potatoes? My abdomen would burst. It is very attractive to me, the idea of replacing liver with appropriate low impact supplements especially if this "diet" should sustain a large population. Milk however could be easily provided "grass-fed" and "happy" with a few billions' investment, I think (or whatever we spend for cattle "research" today). Milk from Berchtesgadener Land (up to 100% honesty from the producer) in my case allows avoidance of any kind of public water and plastics, polyamines and antibiotics, etc. Of course the truck must cover a thousand kilometers every day which I bet is still less expensive than local steak farming. Anytime you invest so much of your diet in one food you must invest in an appropriate source (think potatoes that actually sprout, for example). Keep in mind keto-acids do not have nitrogen so they must get it from the body.
     
  17. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Thank you, tca300 for sharing! :)

    I did 80/10/10 high calorie (30bad) style diet for two years so I'm very familiar with an extremely low-fat plant based diet causing weight loss. I dropped down to 70 pounds following it so I'm one who needs more fat and some animal protein to maintain my weight. When I was transitioning over to all raw, I ate a lot of potatoes and sweet potatoes, but I was still dropping weight fast so I understand your success with it. Anyway, hope you continue to feel great on your diet and thanks again for sharing.

    Such_Saturation, you bring up an interesting point about keto-acids and nitrogen. When I was doing RBTI they check for nitrogen as it affects the brain. My practitioner kept telling me I needed to eat meat because my brain number was extremely low, which meant I was deficient in nitrogen. Not to sound dumb, but are you saying that keto-acids need to rob nitrogen from the body in order to process them?
     
  18. tara

    tara Member

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    I think under normal conditions the body disposes of a lot of nitrogen as tissue proteins break down (normal for tissue to continuously break down and repair/rebuild). Under suitable conditions, if you have keto-acids in the system, they can combine with the otherwise waste nitrogen to form usable protein. Kind of protein recycling. If you are short of protein and/or nitrogen in your system to begin with, you need to consume the whole amino acids that have the nitrogen in them. Even under ideal conditions, maintenance probably requires some complete protein, but not as much if there are plenty of keto-acids. Please correct me if I've got this wrong.

    I think the RBTI checks for nitrogens were partly for the brains sake (I have a vague recollection that it also indicated something about potassium balance, also important for the brain), but also because the levels need to be high enough to indicate there is enough protein available in circulation for general cellular repair/replacement.
     
  19. pboy

    pboy Member

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    I agree with the fat, except for that which is contained naturally in milk

    keto acids don't rob nitrogen, they just cant be used unless theres free nitrogen...so essentially if you are under a cortisol state, it might be able to salvage some
     
  20. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Okay! That makes a lot more sense now why my practitioner (Su) wanted me to eat meat. Thank you for explaining, tara. :)

    Yes, you are correct! It also indicates potassium balance. That's why Su had me juicing celery.

    Comming off of doing 80/10/10, my blood levels of protein were extremely deficient, but I wasn't sure how accurate blood levels were. So when you say a complete protein, that would be meat, seafood and eggs, but not milk, correct? Su said I needed to mix a grain with milk to get a complete protein which I thought was debunked a while ago.

    I was pretty stubborn about not wanting to eat meat and because my brain number was at a 3, Su said she would have to stop working with me if I didn't eat some each day. She couldn't in good faith watch me die on her watch. Apparently my numbers were that bad. I still wonder if I should be eating meat given that my osteoporosis is so bad.

    I'm just a bit unsure because I know Ray's general opinion about meat, but I wonder if very sick people can get away with more of it and/or actually need more of it while recovering. Sort of like his take on how children need amino acids like tryptophan while growing. Technically, don't my bones need regrowing in a sense?

    Sorry for hijacking the thread.
     
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