Do You Experience Negative Effects from Eggs and/or Dairy Consumption

[Korven]

Try loading up the potatoes with butter, sour cream and cheese. I think people are just too insulin sensitive for such an insulin releasing starch. That can account for a lot of negative moods if it makes your blood sugar go wonky. I can eat these potatoes and have lots of energy and feel warm with high temps. But I figured out a bowl of pasta with a pat of butter and a small amount of cheese leaves me feeling cold and depressed. Most people are too afraid of fat.

Yeah I agree the insulin - blood sugar crash can really mess with your mood however I don't seem to get the same negative response to other starchy foods. And I forgot to mention but the potato depression is more of a delayed reaction that comes 24 hours afterwards, which makes me think it must be either gut (colon) irritation or the glycoalkaloid poisons.

But you werent wrong though, you instinctively made the connection. You should avoid all nightshades generally. If you have a small serving rarely it shouldnt be too bad. The issue becomes regular consumption because the half life of solanine is quite long (24 hours). So levels can build up if you consume them frequently. Yams and sweet potatoes are not nightshades so do not contain toxic glycoalkaloids like solanine. Those are good to include in your diet.

If you have no digestive problems with white flour products than I would suggest you put that in the roster of food options. Whole wheat is an issue because of the high amounts of manganese, which is also bad for this neurochemistry. So if you consume manganese rich foods currently like pineapple I would stop this. Thankfully there are plenty of fruits which are low in manganese but still provide other things like Vitamin C which is important if you have high histamine/acetylcholine. Some fruits that are supposed to be histamine releasers should still be trialed to see if they can be consumed. Not everyone with histamine issues reacts to the same things.


I think this list is pretty good:

Low Histamine Diet | Full Histamine Intolerance Foods List

See 187 foods to eat and avoid on a low histamine diet. Start improving histamine intolerance symptoms in just 2 weeks using this low histamine foods list.

www.factvsfitness.com

Thanks bro, this is really helpful.

That's interesting you bring up manganese as I definitely used to overdose on it before as a whole food vegan. I was a dumbass and didn't know anything about nutrition back then and I remember googling "manganese toxicity" as I was eating something ridiculous like 30 mg per day. I am going to be more mindful about my manganese intake, I find it quite easy to get like 10+ mg from foods like oats, maple syrup, pineapple etc.

Refined pasta digests really well for me so I'm going to eat it more often. And will try the regular sweet potatoes as well.

It is possible to get used to any food, even poison .
Many people are pushing themselves to to adapt to digesting milk, for some people on this forum it took years...Some people throw up when when they first reintroduce milk . But you can do the same with potatoes, grains , gluten, any stuff...The less you eat gluten or potatoes the less you'll be able digest it.
RP: "It takes a few days for the intestine to change its rhythm of peristalsis, and a couple of weeks for the enzymes to adjust to a change of foods."

That's true. I don't have any issues with starches like rice or pasta/bread and can eat them and feel fine. And even milk is okay (except for skin flareups). But if I try to eat potatoes every day I just feel bad all the time until I stop eating them.

 

[aniciete]

Yeh that'll definitely do it. A whole pineapple daily is quite a lot of manganese. Let us know how things change from stopping.

So I haven’t consumed any manganese rich foods for a week now and I noticed the skin issues start to fade. But I tried consuming eggs again suspecting I may need the choline and now I have red cheeks again. So would this confirm the choline is increasing my acetylcholine too much? I’d hate to have to give up eggs because they definitely help with cold extremities.

 

[redsun]

So I haven’t consumed any manganese rich foods for a week now and I noticed the skin issues start to fade. But I tried consuming eggs again suspecting I may need the choline and now I have red cheeks again. So would this confirm the choline is increasing my acetylcholine too much? I’d hate to have to give up eggs because they definitely help with cold extremities.

Likely yes. You can try it for a few days and see if it goes away. Otherwise its better to not consume them. How many eggs did you consume?

 

[aniciete]

Likely yes. You can try it for a few days and see if it goes away. Otherwise its better to not consume them. How many eggs did you consume?

3 small eggs. The first day I didn’t notice much, the second day I started seeing the redness and today I woke up with my face hot and red.

 

[aniciete]

Likely yes. You can try it for a few days and see if it goes away. Otherwise its better to not consume them. How many eggs did you consume?

I forgot to mention it but can eggs/higher ach cause anxiety or shakiness? I usually hear about choline causing depressing but I’ve been really shaky and anxious to do things I usually have no problem doing.

 

[redsun]

I forgot to mention it but can eggs/higher ach cause anxiety or shakiness? I usually hear about choline causing depressing but I’ve been really shaky and anxious to do things I usually have no problem doing.

Yes higher acetylcholine will cause these symptoms. So you probably need to avoid things that lead to high Ach levels. Even small eggs still have quite a bit of choline, especially three of them at once. Almost always, eggs need to be minimized or avoided for those susceptible to excess Ach activity.

 

[aniciete]

Yes higher acetylcholine will cause these symptoms. So you probably need to avoid things that lead to high Ach levels. Even small eggs still have quite a bit of choline, especially three of them at once. Almost always, eggs need to be minimized or avoided for those susceptible to excess Ach activity.

Is choline from more meat or milk a problem? Increasing meat and milk seem like the best things for getting more calories in. At the moment the things I seem to tolerate well are lamb, milk, honey, satsumas, and honeydew melon.

 

[redsun]

Is choline from more meat or milk a problem? Increasing meat and milk seem like the best things for getting more calories in. At the moment the things I seem to tolerate well are lamb, milk, honey, satsumas, and honeydew melon.

The acetylcholinesterase enzyme needs amino acids to be synthesized. I hypothesized a little while ago that the choline to protein (amino acid) ratio is why eggs are intolerable to some people. They need more amino acids for the enzyme so meat and dairy do not cause high Ach symptoms because of this. Not only do they have less choline but the ratio of choline to protein is much lower. This is what I think is the issue. Also more amino acids compared to choline would theoretically mean more activity of dopamine and the other catecholamines as well as serotonin which can help antagonize high Ach activity.

There was a study I found that showed feeding tryptophan significantly increased the acetylcholinesterase enzyme. We know tryptophan is critical for its function.

 

[aniciete]

The acetylcholinesterase enzyme needs amino acids to be synthesized. I hypothesized a little while ago that the choline to protein (amino acid) ratio is why eggs are intolerable to some people. They need more amino acids for the enzyme so meat and dairy do not cause high Ach symptoms because of this. Not only do they have less choline but the ratio of choline to protein is much lower. This is what I think is the issue. Also more amino acids compared to choline would theoretically mean more activity of dopamine and the other catecholamines as well as serotonin which can help antagonize high Ach activity.

There was a study I found that showed feeding tryptophan significantly increased the acetylcholinesterase enzyme. We know tryptophan is critical for its function.

Wow that actually makes a lot of sense in my experience. Thanks for the info!

 

[ursidae]

Isn't kidney just meat that's been marinating in urine? It must be an acquired taste.

Kidneys, like most offal, accumulate heavy metals, particularly cadmium and lead.
Might explain the disgust people experience

"The concentrations of heavy metals, such as chromium (Cr), arsenic (As), cadmium (Cd), mercury (Hg), and lead (Pb), in different muscles and edible offal of consumed pork from the city of Nanjing and related health risks were evaluated.

The results showed that the detected Hg concentrations from 6 of 80 samples exceeded the maximum allowable concentration (GB 2762-2017). Moreover, most of the edible offal, especially the kidneys, contained more heavy metals than the other parts, although the concentrations among the samples were significantly different (P < 0.05)."
Concentrations of heavy metals in muscle and edible offal of pork in Nanjing city of China and related health risks

"A total of 600 sheep samples (200 each of muscle, liver, and kidney) collected from 200 sheep carcasses slaughtered at abattoirs in Kuwait were analyzed by atomic absorption spectrophotometry for concentrations of mercury (Hg), arsenic (As), lead (Pb), cadmium (Cd), and chromium (Cr). These metals were detected in all (100%) examined samples; higher concentrations occurred in kidney followed by liver and muscle. The mean (±standard error of the mean) values of the metals detected in sheep muscle, liver, and kidney samples were 0.320 ± 0.061, 0.488 ± 0.042, and 0.791 ± 0.152 μg/g, respectively for Hg; 349 ± 0.074, 0.504 ± 0.049, and 0.642 ± 0.113 μg/g, respectively, for As; 0.482 ± 0.098, 0.567 ± 0.042, and 0.706 ± 0.098 μg/g, respectively, for Pb; 0.301 ± 0.344, 0.433 ± 0.032, and 0.586 ± 0.064 μg/g, respectively, for Cd; and 0.362 ± 0.064, 0.585 ± 0.044, and 0.738 ± 0.111 μg/g, respectively, for Cr. The concentrations of all heavy metals except Cr exceeded the maximum permissible limits set by various international food agencies. The estimated daily intake of each metal was lower than its provisional tolerable daily intake. The target hazard quotient and hazard index values for Hg were >1.0 in all examined sheep samples, suggesting significant health risks to the public from the consumption of sheep meat and offal marketed in Kuwait."
Health Risk Assessment of Exposure to Heavy Metals from Sheep Meat and Offal in Kuwait

 

[SaltiestSardine]

Do with eggs, but it only happens with crap eggs. For instance, i highly doubt "Happy Eggs"are free range as they have similar effects on me as to what battery hen eggs do. I always assumed that what i was experiencing when eating those kind of eggs was the ingestion of stress hormones since my blood sugar crashes hard and my digestion grinds to a halt which tends to amplify my already present anxiety etc. I get none of this with good quality eggs cooked in a tiny bit of saturated fat (teaspoon of refined coconut oil, or grass fed butter)

Milk used to give me tonnes of issues(brought on by consuming a lot of commercial milk protein isolates and weight gainer shakes), but i unintentionally addressed that issue when i started briefly consuming Raw Milk Kefir. I still have some issues with some yoghurts though, but i don't consume them that often, so it's a non-issue

 

[changeling188]

i tend to feel better when i mix full cream milk with brown sugar and cacao. the raw jersey milk i was having was far better than regular kinds. goat cheese makes me feel better than most cow cheeses and i like the taste better.

i wonder the state to which cheeses degenerate under the fluorescent lighting in the market, or anything in a plastic or see-through bottle. some fermented milk products i've always tolerated better such as filmjolk or kefir but i hate yoghurt for the reason that it's impossible in many places to get it without thickener added and unpasteurised milk is illegal for human consumption in Australia. as my digestion healed i could tolerate both dairy and eggs far better. reducing gluten consumption seems to promote the digestion of dairy products, perhaps something to do with inflammation of intestinal cells.

 

[3littlestarrs]

Brain fog and decreased IQ in my situation. From time to time I play an hour of videogames and I noticed how slow I am on milk especially if it's over 500 ml.
This fogginess is noticed even more when I walk in a crowded place, I can't focus on people's faces too much, and I can't be aware of my surroundings. I just walk and it gets boring.
Boringness is noticed also when I work, coffee diminishes this effect.
My verbal fluency drops and my word recall worsens to the point that I can't be spotaneous anymore.
I tried milk A2 and it worked, but it seemed that my motivation decreased a bit. The sharpest I am is without any dairy. But it feels like it's not suistainable.

I experience the same exact things. I seem to handle A2 a bit better, but still feel off. No dairy is way better for me- less brain fog, but is this good? Eggs make me feel pretty similar. I love the taste of both and keep going back door more..you'd think I'd have enough of the aftermath of these two, but I guess my hopes that NEXT TIME may be a better outcome out ways it all. Thoughts as to why?

 

[Androsclerosis]

I experience the same exact things. I seem to handle A2 a bit better, but still feel off. No dairy is way better for me- less brain fog, but is this good? Eggs make me feel pretty similar. I love the taste of both and keep going back door more..you'd think I'd have enough of the aftermath of these two, but I guess my hopes that NEXT TIME may be a better outcome out ways it all. Thoughts as to why?

I don't know. It happens to me also. Every single time I have the thought of "maybe it's not that bad" until I try it and holy ***t my friend can't even have a normal conversation with me.
Good thing you made me realize that eggs can be pretty similar. For the last few weeks I have been eating 5 eggs a day and my overall motivation was meh.
Coffee and cigarettes makes milk more tolerable but still IQ is similar to a warm rock.
Do you have any ideas on supplementing calcium? It feels like calcium carbonate it's not that much anti PTH as milk. Milk has a more pronounced antistress effect than suppls.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I get bad earaches from the added vitamin D in nonfat milk and just one egg makes me very listless if I don’t balance it with a big sugar source like Ray Peat suggests.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I don't know. It happens to me also. Every single time I have the thought of "maybe it's not that bad" until I try it and holy ***t my friend can't even have a normal conversation with me.
Good thing you made me realize that eggs can be pretty similar. For the last few weeks I have been eating 5 eggs a day and my overall motivation was meh.
Coffee and cigarettes makes milk more tolerable but still IQ is similar to a warm rock.
Do you have any ideas on supplementing calcium? It feels like calcium carbonate it's not that much anti PTH as milk. Milk has a more pronounced antistress effect than suppls.

“When the environment is too stressful, or when nutrition isn't adequate, the organism may be unable to mobilize the opposing and complementary substances to stop their actions. In those situations, it can be therapeutic to use some of the nutrients as supplements. Calcium carbonate (eggshell or oyster shell, for example) and vitamins D and K, can sometimes produce quick antistress effects, alleviating insomnia, hypertension, edema, inflammations and allergies, etc., but the regular use of milk and cheese can prevent many chronic stress-related diseases.” -Ray Peat