Dairy / Lactose / Lactic Acid Phobia

[oldfriend]

Hey guys, I'm new to Peat-ing and am trying to establish a good baseline diet. Been doing OJ, gelatin, coconut oil, coffee with relative success but have hit a wall when it comes to incorporating dairy. I've had issues with it going back to my childhood: mucus, stuffy nose, sneezing, diarrhea, etc and did an ELISA allergy test that confirmed a moderate allergy to casein when I was 22 (now 30).

I've been off and on dairy for the entirety of my life, but never had a standard for high quality. I now want to make a sincere effort to adapt to it if I can. Problem is, an accumulation of bad experiences is preventing me from doing that.

I seem to be OK with goat milk yogurt and small amounts of raw goat cheddar and farmers cheese, but when I try to increase my intake I get digestive upset and a stuffy nose. I wonder if the lactic acid content of yogurt and farmers cheese is partially to blame.

I would like to try plain goat milk, or homemade cottage cheese but I know I have issues with the lactose. Is it a bad idea to use lacteeze drops to reduce the lactose content of my milk as it contains glycerin? I could also use Enzymedica Dairyassist and empty the capsules into the milk, but I'm not sure what ratio I would need to use as the two products seem to use different units of measurement.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Lacteeze won't remove the casein.

Why don't you try and see what happens?

Glycerin

 

[oldfriend]

Lacteeze won't remove the casein.

Thanks BigYellowLemon. I'm hoping the switch to goat dairy will help with casein troubles.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Thanks BigYellowLemon. I'm hoping the switch to goat dairy will help with casein troubles.

There's still casein in goat milk.

Normally if you were having trouble with milk then I'd think trying goat milk would be worth a shot.

But if you got a test showing you're specifically allergic to casein, then all milk will invoke an immune response.

Though I have no idea how an ELISA test is run, what it mean, how valid it is, so who knows.

Goats milk is probably higher quality than cows, they don't have to homogenize it.

 

[oldfriend]

The

There's still casein in goat milk.

The Casein in goat milk is A2 apparently better tolerated than A1 in some folks. There are several qualities that make goat milk look much better on paper: globules of fat are smaller and easier to diges, 3 times as much MCT in goat's milk vs. cow milk, etc, most similar to human milk in structure.
It does seem like I can tolerate it a bit better than cows milk. I'm just hoping the allergic symptoms, and digestive troubles will subside.

 

[tara]

I don't know any way to find out other than cautious experimentation.
Sometimes people recover from allergies. Allergic reactions can sometimes be attenuated by ensuring adequate blood sugar levels etc.
If you are going to try, I'd guess that introducing small amounts along with other foods that you tolerate well might give you the best shot.
I don't think it's great to keep triggering allergic or intolerance reactions by pushing something continuously if the system can't handle it.

I seem to have trouble with all forms of milk if I have too much of it - I get similar symptoms from various brands of cow's milk including A2, homogenised and non-homogenised, yogurt, goat milk, home made farmers cheese, trouble with aged cheeses (not sure it's the same issue). I have no noticable gut symptoms, but get fuzzy-headed and sick feeling. The effect is not immediate - seems to come on after a few days of continued consumption. The only allergy test I had was a skin prick test, which showed no issue with milk.

So I suspect it has to do with reaching some threshhold level of some breakdown products of the milk as it is partially digested.
I suspect casein, but it could be that I react badly to lactose and lactic acid and other bacterial fermentation products.

I've several times to reintroduce it because I love and crave most milk and milk products, and often felt hopeful for a while as it seems to initially go well, and then after a while I realise I'm sick in the same old way again.
So then I go back to supplementing calcium by other means, etc.

Good luck.

[ETA:] I seem to get away with a bit of butter, as long as I don't overdo it.

 

[oldfriend]

I have no noticable gut symptoms, but get fuzzy-headed and sick feeling. The effect is not immediate - seems to come on after a few days of continued consumption. The only allergy test I had was a skin prick test, which showed no issue with milk.

[ETA:] I seem to get away with a bit of butter, as long as I don't overdo it.

Thanks tara, I think my casein allergy was a symptom of leaky gut at the time of testing. I keep hoping that if I work on sealing the tight junctions that I will be able to tolerate it again.
Re: lactose I'm curious to try the 5 strain bifidobacteria from customprobiotics.com. I've read reports that it improved digestion significantly for some folks, and one of the reasons may be that lactose is the preferred food for B. Longum. I think in my particular case, lactose intolerance may be an acute symptom of dysbiosis in the large intestine.
I seem to do OK with ghee.
Can I ask what you do to meet your calcium and protein requirements in the absence of dairy?

 

[tara]

Can I ask what you do to meet your calcium and protein requirements in the absence of dairy?

Calcium: mostly oystershell. I'd prefer to use eggshell, but have not been able to produce or source any that is fine enough for me to be able to easily get down. Also a bit of leafy greens in soup regularly.
Protein: eggs, liver, meat, fish, potatoes, stocks made from gelatinous joints (eg beef or mutton of chicken soup bones with veges for soup), gelatin (in fruity jellies). I've lately been eating a bit less straight muscle meat, and think I feel better for it, but may not be regularly hitting the minimum 80g protein target.

 

[oldfriend]

Calcium: mostly oystershell. I'd prefer to use eggshell, but have not been able to produce or source any that is fine enough for me to be able to easily get down. Also a bit of leafy greens in soup regularly.
Protein: eggs, liver, meat, fish, potatoes, stocks made from gelatinous joints (eg beef or mutton of chicken soup bones with veges for soup), gelatin (in fruity jellies). I've lately been eating a bit less straight muscle meat, and think I feel better for it, but may not be regularly hitting the minimum 80g protein target.

I'm eating meat twice a day and don't do well on it either. Was so hoping to get more protein from dairy...

 

[tara]

I'm eating meat twice a day and don't do well on it either. Was so hoping to get more protein from dairy...

Yes, wish I could too. Potatoes seem to do me good though, and they contribute to my protein most days.
When possible I try to only eat meat at lunch time - seem to make best use of it then, eggs or liver or occasionally fish for breakfast, stock/soup in the evening, potatoes often, and jelly for occasional snacks when I'm organised.

 

[tara]

When possible I try to only eat meat at lunch time - seem to make best use of it then, eggs or liver or occasionally fish for breakfast, stock/soup in the evening, potatoes often, and jelly for occasional snacks when I'm organised.

Just noting that this is what I'm trying, but since I have not yet solved my key health issues, I can't claim it as strong evidence of being optimal even for myself, let alone anyone else.

 

[lvysaur]

The Casein in goat milk is A2 apparently better tolerated than A1 in some folks.

I think you're mixing up A-beta caseins with alpha caseins.

The A1 beta vs. A2 beta casein is an issue in Holstein/Frisian cow milk, versus less allergenic Jersey/Guernsey cow milks.

Goat's milk is less allergenic because it lacks alpha-S1-casein.

 

[Wagner83]

The

The Casein in goat milk is A2 apparently better tolerated than A1 in some folks. There are several qualities that make goat milk look much better on paper: globules of fat are smaller and easier to diges, 3 times as much MCT in goat's milk vs. cow milk, etc, most similar to human milk in structure.

Yep but it really tastes bad! Cheese from goat milk can be delicious though.

I think you're mixing up A-beta caseins with alpha caseins.

The A1 beta vs. A2 beta casein is an issue in Holstein/Frisian cow milk, versus less allergenic Jersey/Guernsey cow milks.

Goat's milk is less allergenic because it lacks alpha-S1-casein.

Interesting I'm pretty sure I was doing better on milk from jersey cows.