Dental Health Degrading Quickly

[Cirion]

I had a couple of major fillings done 1 month ago, and now I have to do FIVE more (granted, several were on the "watch list" for a couple of years, but still) and my mouth was probably the worst shape it has ever been in my life (they commented on it too) in terms of bleeding/aggravation of gums etc.

I don't know what could have done that in one month.

Yeah I eat high sugar but I've been doing that over a year now.

The only thing I can think of is the last two days I have been adding 3 tbsp of activated charcoal to try to start removing my endotoxin/bacteria. Maybe this backfired on me?

 

[lampofred]

High PTH due to excess phosphate removes calcium from teeth and bones.

 

[Cirion]

How can I have high phosphate. I get less than 500 mg a day now phopshorus sometimes, always less than 1 gram. Less than I've ever had in my life.

 

[Cirion]

Unless mexican colas with their phosphoric acid are really damaging? I've been averaging a couple of them a day for a year though, this hasn't really changed the last month or so.

I admit my calcium could maybe be better, as I don't eat dairy, but even this is not a recent change. I quit dairy months ago...

 

[lampofred]

I don't think phosphate intake is what matters most for blood phosphate levels. I think it's like blood sugar. Eating less sugar will lower blood sugar but doesn't fix the fundamental problem. The problem when there is excess phosphate is overmethylation, low vitamin D status, and low CO2, which all point to insufficient light exposure & declining kidney function.

I was just looking at the Wiki because I wanted read about red light and read that Dr. Peat stated red light can cause teeth regeneration...

 

[Cirion]

hmm maybe. its definitely true noone anymore gets enough sunlight and I was commenting on this the other day.

I'm gonna try Haidut's MB mouthwash idea (something like 20 drops of MB in 1 liter of water I think he said).

I am really torn because the dentist wants me on all this flouride and crap and I don't want that goitrogenic BS in my body, yet, I might lose my teeth without it...

 

[Diokine]

All-trans retinoic acid-induced hypothalamus–pituitary–adrenal hyperactivity involves glucocorticoid receptor dysregulation
Here we show that all-trans retinoic acid (RA)-induced HPA activation involves impairments in glucocorticoid receptor (GR) negative feedback.

REGULATION OF
B-ADRENERGIC RECEPTORS
BY STEROID HORMONES
Research over the past decade has documented two major modes of b-adrenergic receptor regulation that appear to contribute to the regulation of tissue sensitivity to catecholamine action. Steroid hormones participate in both
forms of regulation.

Influence of beta-adrenergic antagonists and agonists on dental caries development: an overview

 

[redsun]

Its not the phosphoric acid... your saliva secretions are clearly too low. This is the root cause behind many teeth problems. Your saliva protects your teeth. Every time I have low choline intake(not eating eggs) for a few days I always get an increasingly dry mouth and reduced saliva. Things that increase histamine also help.

Taking a teaspoon of histidine on an empty stomach immediately makes my mouth moist(just did this 5 mins ago). Ever since I started taking it teeth pain from sugar touching the teeth has drasticslly reduced. Increasing choline intake also does this(probably by increasing acetylcholine which probably plays a role in bodily secretions like histamine though i havent researched it too much) though sometimes it doesn't do as good a job. Definitely not as good as histidine. I clearly have low histamine and probably need more choline in general. Histidine needs B6 to get converted to histamine too, otherwise I think it can get converted to other aminos more readily.

 

[johnwester130]

this is helpful for saliva production

https://www.amazon.com/Organix-South-Neem-Tooth-Ounce/dp/B00ODAHA2O

 

[Cirion]

Sorry don't have the patience to read that article at the moment. Are you saying that vitamin A causes dental cavities? That is one other change I've made lately is lots of liverwurst which is very high in vitamin A.

I do get dry mouth a lot but it's mostly because I mouth breath at night due to sleep apnea / lack of retaining CO2... so yea the dry mouth could be a factor indeed, but don't know what to do because I've literally struggled with CO2 retention since I started peating like 2 years ago, never can seem to fix it. getting through the night IMO is *the* hardest part about optimal health, its by far the most stressful time of the day.

 

[CLASH]

Vegans, and very specifically fruitarians are known to develop huge teeth issues. Soda is also known to wreck teeth. I doubt its a phosphate issue.

I think the first issue is a lack of adequate protein in the diet from animal foods which is known encourage calcium absorption and retention.

The second issue would be the intake of soda and refined sugars which shuts off the hypothalamus signal to the parotid gland to produce saliva.

The third issue is the acids in the fruit are most likely wearing away at your teeth, and with the other 2 factors your body is likely not replenishing the minerals.

The fourth issue is possibly eating/ snacking too often resulting in constant assault on the teeth, especially with fruits and pure forms of sugar, not allowing the saliva to replenish teeth.

Lastly, considering your situation involving your weight and inability to digest certain foods I'd guess you probably have a gut dysbiosis and perhaps a fatty liver. The dysbiosis effects the whole intestinal tract, when my teeth where the worst was when my gut was the worst. The fatty liver may impair your thyroid function i.e. conversion of T4 to T3, which can effect oral/ GI health.

Despite the importance of experimentation, I think that some of your experiments are extreme and perhaps some of your base hypothesis are flawed.

 

[Cirion]

Vegans, and very specifically fruitarians are known to develop huge teeth issues. Soda is also known to wreck teeth. I doubt its a phosphate issue.

I think the first issue is a lack of adequate protein in the diet from animal foods which is known encourage calcium absorption and retention.

The second issue would be the intake of soda and refined sugars which shuts off the hypothalamus signal to the parotid gland to produce saliva.

The third issue is the acids in the fruit are most likely wearing away at your teeth, and with the other 2 factors your body is likely not replenishing the minerals.

The fourth issue is possibly eating/ snacking too often resulting in constant assault on the teeth, especially with fruits and pure forms of sugar, not allowing the saliva to replenish teeth.

Lastly, considering your situation involving your weight and inability to digest certain foods I'd guess you probably have a gut dysbiosis and perhaps a fatty liver. The dysbiosis effects the whole intestinal tract, when my teeth where the worst was when my gut was the worst. The fatty liver may impair your thyroid function i.e. conversion of T4 to T3, which can effect oral/ GI health.

Despite the importance of experimentation, I think that some of your experiments are extreme and perhaps some of your base hypothesis are flawed.

Eating high protein is not an option for me. High protein absolutely wrecks my metabolic rate. That said, I did start having 4 oz of meat a day. But even with just four ounces, my body temps are tanking again it seems, so everything I do, its fighting an uphill battle. Meat trashes my temperatures VERY easily. 8 oz was too much, that dropped me from like 98.2F+ waking temps to 97.6F (one day was even 97.3F while eating higher meat) so you see, meat simply doesn't work for me.

I will confess that the last 2 weeks I did an ULTRA low protein experiment (20-50 gram) a day, and maybe that's what did all the damage? I can definitely see going THAT low could cause some damage. I was desperate to lose some weight though (and it worked, I did lose 8 lbs). That's why I keep protein low, protein makes me gain weight. But yeah, I did admit to myself that I need around 70-80 a day based upon my experimental results showing that body temps tanked with it too low anyways. I wanted to see what the truly optimal protein intake was, so I needed more data at the low end of things, but now I'm even more confident that 70-80 gram is THE sweet spot (tm) and in fact this agrees with Ray as I'm pretty sure he is quoted as saying "80 gram of quality protein is sufficient".

I don't think #2-#4 are why, although I do agree they can aggravate the issue, because like I said I've been eating this way for many months now. It's more likely one of these three imo:

-- too low protein (the 20-50 gram experiment) that i recently did. 70-80 gram seems to be enough to not cause problems while not being too high to cause problems.
-- maybe the activated charcoal releasing bacteria en-masse?
-- vitamin A maybe

I absolutely have gut problems and digestion problems. That's in fact why I can't shed the weight. I have an absolute inability to digest ANYTHING except sugar (which is why sugar forms the bulk of my diet), with protein starches and fats being very difficult for me to digest. I have been taking energin daily religiously and I'm not convinced B vitamins are my problem at this point as such. I should have seen some benefits by now.

VoS said that the only way he permanently cured his digestion was high dose activated charcoal plus caffeine (hence why I started playing with AC again as of yesterday). His AC + caffeine protocol he claims is even more powerful and long-lasting than antibiotics. I did play with high caffeine in the past, didn't like it, but not high caffeine PLUS high AC intake. The AC may be the critical second factor as just taking caffeine might just leave it in your bloodstream and not purge it.

 

[CLASH]

@Cirion
If meat is lowering your temps like that I dont think your temps are in the range you want because your thyroid is optimal.

Perhaps getting to a baseline diet at a normal weight and then playing with things from there would be more helpful?

Have you read broda barnes "Thyroid: the unsuspected illness"? I think you would be surprised by alot of his recommendations in that book...

To be honest man, I think your spinning your wheels. This experiment has been going on for months and every other day you announce some breakthrough "this is the cause", only to develop another issue 2 days later. I think reinventing the wheel here is harming you more than helping you as you rationalize yourself into dietary oblivion.

 

[Cirion]

"If you're not close to the euphoria/euthyroid condition, you're degrading".

Ray peat quote, not mine. I start with that to get to the point of my reply.

If you're feeling worse, which I absolutely do on a too high protein diet and too high fat diet, that means I should keep doing it? That seems foolish to me.

"Getting to a baseline diet at a normal weight" I assume you mean like a 33/33/33 split diet or something when you say this. I probably could lose some weight doing that if I also restrict calories, but once again, temps WILL (not if) tank to 97s and possibly 96s doing this. Refer back to ^^ quote. "If you're not close to euphoria, you're degrading". I no longer believe in "Detox" reactions at least ones that are severe like I get when my temps drop to the 96-97F level. If you don't feel good, you're degrading, period. Especially when the temps are hypothyroid levels alongside it.

I haven't read broda barnes book but i'm pretty sure he agrees with me actually. Does he not say waking temp should be 97.8-98.2F (that's armpit, so 98.4F+ oral measurement)?

Yeah, I've done a lot of things. But you don't learn without experiment. Thomas edison failed 1000 time before succeeding. Yeah I've failed a lot, but I've learned from every failure and documented every failure as well religiously. Just giving up and going to caloric restrictions means you've given up and admitted you can't figure it out, and I refuse to do so.

Anyway, my metabolism is messed up to the point that caloric restriction doesn't even work anymore anyway. So even if I wanted to do it, it wouldn't work. When you're fat FFA and FAO is very high, and haidut has a thread that shows that increased FAO actually makes fat loss more difficult. Additionally, refer back to ^^ quote one more time. I refuse to do fat loss if it makes me suicidally depressed and a 96F body temp.. It's simply not the healthy way to do it, period full stop.

Forcing yourself to "feel worse before feeling better" (aka caloric restriction, getting to 96-97F temps etc) is a myth. ilikecats who used to post here (I guess he left because he cured his hypo) was saying he was getting to higher and higher physiological states despite being 50-100 lbs overweight, better physiological states than most users here except maybe haidut, and he was eating 5000-7000 calories a day and LOSING weight. The main difference between him and I was he mega-dosed T3, which is one thing I haven't played a whole lot with yet, but I might because it worked so well for him.

 

[opson123]

An acid attack (this is a direct translation from Finnish, couldn't find a proper word for it) or demineralization is a reaction where the surface of your teeth loses minerals. Acid attack happens everytime you eat and your saliva is able to repair a little damage to the enamel, this is called remineralization and you can speed up this repair process with xylitol. In the case where the demineralization process isn't stopped or it doesn't stop by itself, tooth decay worsens and you get cavities.

Above is a my hasty translation of a Finnish wikipedia page. So if you're sipping OJ or grazing food throughout the day, your teeth are under acid attack almost the whole day. The only time they some repair in is at night when you're asleep.

Sources: wikipedia and my mom, she's a dental nurse. Her cheap and convenient recommendation would be to start chewing xylitol gum or something else with xylitol after each meal.

 

[Blossom]

I’m in a secret Facebook group of people who developed complications during recovery from ED. Many of them have had consultations at Gaudiani Clinic
and highly recommend it. I survived relatively unscathed but I think it’s because I implemented a lot of Peaty ideas. The clinic does telemedicine if you can’t make it in person. If you aren’t interested or find this suggestion unhelpful feel free to ignore.

 

[thomas00]

I used to get cavities all the time. They stopped once I started thyroid. Have you seen the studies Ray has talked about where the cavities in rats stop appearing with thyroid supplementation?

I always rinse with water when I drink coke or OJ too.

 

[Cirion]

I’m in a secret Facebook group of people who developed complications during recovery from ED. Many of them have had consultations at Gaudiani Clinic
and highly recommend it. I survived relatively unscathed but I think it’s because I implemented a lot of Peaty ideas. The clinic does telemedicine if you can’t make it in person. If you aren’t interested or find this suggestion unhelpful feel free to ignore.

Thanks for the suggestion, its an interesting idea if I ever feel at my wits end I'll keep it in mind.

Yah the problem is, once you hit the really overweight point, almost nothing works, even when you do the right thing it takes some time and effort to turn things around at this point. I wouldn't be having all these problems if I abandoned some of my other strategies before I got to this point.

Unfortunately, when you're hypothyroid, your mental abilities are not functional, and as such, I was blindly following the advice of a coach -- it was this coach that made me gain 80+ lbs. I'm not gonna name names as I'm not a name and shame kind of person tho, because I blame myself too for blindly following it so the blame was shared 50/50. I was annoyed though that I kept saying "I shouldn't be gaining all this much weight" and he was just like no man just eat eat eat, eat high fat and high sugar, eat it all. Yeah, no.

 

[Cirion]

I used to get cavities all the time. They stopped once I started thyroid. Have you seen the studies Ray has talked about where the cavities in rats stop appearing with thyroid supplementation?

I always rinse with water when I drink coke or OJ too.

How much thyroid do you take? Is it T4 only, T3/T4, or T3 only?

Haidut suggested 20 drops MB with 1 liter of water I'm trying that as of tonight for mouthwash.

 

[gaze]

protein dropping ur temps could be from reduction of stress hormones. a healthy body should never drop that much temp from eating excess anything, which shows that ur 98 temp is from some sort of chronic stress, not a good thyroid. a high sugar low protein low fat has never worked for humans