Completely going without gelatin / gelatinous meats?

[FredSonoma]

Since starting Peating, I've had gelatin almost daily (in the form of red can / green can Great Lakes, which I completely nixed because diarrhea, or homemade bone broth from beef bones / pork feet). However, if I knew none of this information and purely ate what I wanted, I would never eat gelatin. I don't crave it. I like muscle meat, and a lot of it. Additionally, I have noticed on the days that I skip gelatin at night (I usually have a serving every night right before bed), I wake up the next time feeling much more energetic, clear-headed, and "alpha."

Would it be a terrible idea to go a long time without eating gelatin? I know Ray Peat talks about it as one of the most important defenses against degenerative diseases, but in terms of what my problems are (low thyroid, extremely sensitive digestion, bloating, inability to eat starch, sometimes low libido, brain fog, yadayada), is gelatin really that important?

EDIT: Also, to make things more confusing however... I do notice that when I skip gelatin for 3 or 4 days, that I start to feel really anxious all the time. So I guess that is enough in itself. However, it still doesn't make sense that I have no desire at all to eat it.

 

[Derek]

The purpose of having gelatin with meat is to prevent the stress response caused by the anti-metabolic aminos in muscle meat. There are other things besides gelatin that can do this, like sugar or calcium/magnesium for instance. I would not consume any powdered gelatin if I were you. It's made from rotting/decaying animal flesh, is a major source of endotoxin, and is extremely difficult to digest.

Is gelatin really that important? Most of your problems are symptoms that people get from consuming gelatin in the first place. If you've been consuming it for a long time, maybe take 30 days or so off and see how you feel. Gelatin and milk are very similar, in that, you need a very robust metabolism in order to process them. If you don't have great thyroid function/digestion then the gelatin goes through undigested feeding bacteria and increasing endotoxin/serotonin.

 

[tara]

If it's messing with you, I'd lay off for a while, maybe try it again later.
Or maybe try having it at lunch time rather than before bed.
Or consider trying a little glycine instead.

 

[milk_lover]

To be frank with you, the smell of gelatin powder is not pleasant at all. As Derek mentioned, it is like old rotten fermented stuff, and when I reduced it in my diet I felt better and less stomach issues. It all depends on the brand, since here in the UAE we do not have the luxury to order the best quality gelatin (or supplements) like people in the US, I've decided to drop the gelatin powder, which is a very generic type from the supermarket. Instead, I am eating real fresh cuts of meat with their connective tissues found in traditional UAE (mandi) restaurants. And I sometimes supplement with it 1000 mg of taurine (which can act like glycine/gelatin). Also it's so much more practical than gelatin if you're at a restaurant.

 

[Amazoniac]

There's a discussion somewhere in the forum regarding supplementation of isolated glycine and proline instead of gelatin. You miss some things but might be safer. I don't know if it's beneficial though..
Have you tried homemade? I have problems with regular gelatin but not with homemade, might worth a try, at least to make sure..

 

[FredSonoma]

post 111723 There's a discussion somewhere in the forum regarding supplementation of isolated glycine and proline instead of gelatin. You miss some things but might be safer. I don't know if it's beneficial though..
Have you tried homemade? I have problems with regular gelatin but not with homemade, might worth a try, at least to make sure..

I've only used homemade gelatin (from cooked down pork feet or beef bones) for the past few months, and the reaction is definitely not as bad as the powdered gelatin, but still seems to make me feel "beta."

 

[FredSonoma]

post 111701 The purpose of having gelatin with meat is to prevent the stress response caused by the anti-metabolic aminos in muscle meat. There are other things besides gelatin that can do this, like sugar or calcium/magnesium for instance. I would not consume any powdered gelatin if I were you. It's made from rotting/decaying animal flesh, is a major source of endotoxin, and is extremely difficult to digest.

Is gelatin really that important? Most of your problems are symptoms that people get from consuming gelatin in the first place. If you've been consuming it for a long time, maybe take 30 days or so off and see how you feel. Gelatin and milk are very similar, in that, you need a very robust metabolism in order to process them. If you don't have great thyroid function/digestion then the gelatin goes through undigested feeding bacteria and increasing endotoxin/serotonin.

Interesting that you say that because the only other things that seems to bother me is milk... no matter what brand I find raw / pasteurized it bothers me in some way. Cheese just doesn't replace it... I just really crave a good glass of milk regardless.

 

[Nicholas]

i've noticed similar things with gelatin - but i only get it in broth. I do crave soups, though. It's the only way i usually eat beef. one thought which could be completely inaccurate is that....perhaps at times in a healing process our body needs more of the growth hormone and anti-inflammatory properties of gelatin....and at other times our body is not in that swing of things...and if you're eating a lot of it, the growth hormone can be stressful and becomes inflammatory. I no longer view gelatin as a harmless substance - in both broth and powder form....though, like others, i would never recommend powdered form to anyone (because of the histamine/endotoxin). I get a little of it about 3 times a week....but i also use milk and sugar to balance meat. Currently, milk and sugar feel like better buffers/balancers to meat - whereas at one time, gelatin was the best buffer/balancer for me.

 

[Nicholas]

post 111721 And I sometimes supplement with it 1000 mg of taurine (which can act like glycine/gelatin).

very true! had forgotten about that. Peat has mentioned both taurine and glycine having similar functions in the body. But if you go through all the research, taurine has less problems associated with it than does glycine. strange, because glycine is seen as the most harmless and most beneficial amino that someone could eat ad libitum (i.e. GAPS diet, etc.)

 

[Derek]

post 111748

post 111701 The purpose of having gelatin with meat is to prevent the stress response caused by the anti-metabolic aminos in muscle meat. There are other things besides gelatin that can do this, like sugar or calcium/magnesium for instance. I would not consume any powdered gelatin if I were you. It's made from rotting/decaying animal flesh, is a major source of endotoxin, and is extremely difficult to digest.

Is gelatin really that important? Most of your problems are symptoms that people get from consuming gelatin in the first place. If you've been consuming it for a long time, maybe take 30 days or so off and see how you feel. Gelatin and milk are very similar, in that, you need a very robust metabolism in order to process them. If you don't have great thyroid function/digestion then the gelatin goes through undigested feeding bacteria and increasing endotoxin/serotonin.

Interesting that you say that because the only other things that seems to bother me is milk... no matter what brand I find raw / pasteurized it bothers me in some way. Cheese just doesn't replace it... I just really crave a good glass of milk regardless.

You have already identified the two foods that bother you the most (Milk and Gelatin), but you continue to try and consume them? If you have been eating these foods in abundance the whole time you have been "Peating" and you have been having issues this whole time; maybe you're at the point where you should try removing these 2 food items. Try things like: Rice, White Bread, Potatoes, Meat, Seafood, Cooked Vegetables, Fruit Juice, etc...

 

[Derek]

post 111747

post 111723 There's a discussion somewhere in the forum regarding supplementation of isolated glycine and proline instead of gelatin. You miss some things but might be safer. I don't know if it's beneficial though..
Have you tried homemade? I have problems with regular gelatin but not with homemade, might worth a try, at least to make sure..

I've only used homemade gelatin (from cooked down pork feet or beef bones) for the past few months, and the reaction is definitely not as bad as the powdered gelatin, but still seems to make me feel "beta."

When you are hypothyroid and have poor digestion, the only difference between the powdered and homemade is the net amount of endotoxin/serotonin/histamine you get. If you have homemade broth and don't digest it well (it's hard to digest), then it passes through feeding bacteria and increasing endotoxin, serotonin and histamine. The powdered is even worse because it contains these poisons within it, in addition to what your body produces from it. That's probably why you feel better with homemade then with the powder. However, both forms are probably not ideal in your situation.

 

[Jenn]

Try only eating it in solid form, like jello or aspic or pudding.. Avoid liquid, as in broth or soup or coffee. It's very concentrated and can overwhelm the kidneys.

 

[Derek]

post 111767 Try only eating it in solid form, like jello or aspic or pudding.. Avoid liquid, as in broth or soup or coffee. It's very concentrated and can overwhelm the kidneys.

The level of gelatin is the same whether it's solid or liquid. If he makes broth and drinks the liquid, or puts it in the fridge and lets it solidify and then he eats it; the amount of gelatin is the same regardless.

 

[Jenn]

It's not amount the amount, it's the form. Eating it in gelled form can make a difference.

 

[jyb]

post 111767 Try only eating it in solid form, like jello or aspic or pudding.. Avoid liquid, as in broth or soup or coffee. It's very concentrated and can overwhelm the kidneys.

I would imagine it would quickly dissolve into liquid once in the stomach, however. Otherwise, I don't think I've had problems with bone broths or hydrolyzed gelatin, only the "normal" gelatin powder in large quantities.

 

[answersfound]

I cannot do the green can gelatin. I'm gonna try a glycine supplement at some point.

 

[ravster02]

where's this idea of 'eating only what you crave' come from? it's one of the most stupidest things I've seen circulate on this forum

anyway, what's your tsh, heart rate and temp? you need thyroid.

 

[FredSonoma]

post 111788 It's not amount the amount, it's the form. Eating it in gelled form can make a difference.

Why does it make a difference?

 

[FredSonoma]

post 111833 where's this idea of 'eating only what you crave' come from? it's one of the most stupidest things I've seen circulate on this forum

anyway, what's your tsh, heart rate and temp? you need thyroid.

My tsh is 3.0 heart rate in 80s and temp is low to mid 97s. I agree I need thyroid, I have nutri-meds thyroid in the mail right now.

 

[frannybananny]

Interesting that you say that because the only other things that seems to bother me is milk... no matter what brand I find raw / pasteurized it bothers me in some way. Cheese just doesn't replace it... I just really crave a good glass of milk regardless.

Have you tried the A-2 milk? Not a combo of A-1 and A-2 but just simple A-2 milk...comes from DNA tested cows...supposedly tastes just as good. I'm going to try it because I love milk! Only 1/3 of cows produce A-2 milk.