The Hypothyroid Protein Deficiency Yet Protein Toxicity Dilemma

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Cirion

Cirion

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I'll just leave this quote here from Ray Peat himself

If you are far from the euphoric condition then it means you're basically degenerating structurally, aging, deteriorating, and maintaining the euphoric state is therapeutic. That's what happens when you eat progesterone, take active thyroid, t3, or pregnenolone, or sugar, or breath the right amount of carbon dioxide. Everything that doesn't cause injury and does cause energy or stability is going lead you towards a greater stability.

To put it more humorously --- "If you aren't growing........ you're slowin'"

I don't really believe in "Detox" anymore in the traditional sense. Yes the body needs to be detoxed, but if you feel really bad for ANY reason, you did something wrong and are degenerating as per Ray Peat here.

Meat puts in me in the degenerative state / far from euphoria that Ray speaks of. So called "Detox" reactions that meat is supposedly doing for me is nonsense IMO now. Yes, you can and should be actively detoxing, I'm not saying don't detox, but it should not feel awful on a regular basis, if it does, you're doing it wrong. When you're euphoric and in a high metabolic state, detox symptoms should be barely noticeable.
 

Tarmander

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High metabolism, women will flock to. Trust me.
Ha. Oh man. You are going to have to revisit this in future years.

(a sign of higher thyroid function, I hope???)
This is the kind of thing that we sick people used to say when we were desperate.

I won’t argue with you. You have your theories and you are kind enough to plot them out for us publicly and maybe we will learn something from you, I hope so.
 

Tarmander

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If your temps are going down then you might be doing something wrong. My temps are higher when I eat less retinol.

Mine just stay the same unless I eat enormous amounts of food and pack on the weight.
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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No worries a healthy amount of skepticism is not only warranted but healthy. Lord knows I was (and still am in some ways) skeptical of Ray Peat until I systematically began to experimentally prove him on each of his ideas. I think skepticism, curiousity, and experimentation keeps us from being mindless robots. I encourage others to do similar experiments, and document them, to see if other people come up with similar trends. I still disagree with him on a few things, but it may just be I'm still missing things. But I dunno, I dunno if I'll ever agree with him on milk =P

.... Anyways, I think we got off on a tangent lol.

The main point of this thread was -- Are protein powders better utilized in hypothyroid than whole meats/dairy etc? Well, I guess in the spirit of how I've been doing things, I guess I'll just experiment and find out myself.
 
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schultz

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Interesting that nathan hatch essentially did what I did when I was healthy - pound lots of sugared protein shakes.

Yah that's interesting. I'm curious, did you do any weight lifting when you were consuming these shakes?
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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Yah that's interesting. I'm curious, did you do any weight lifting when you were consuming these shakes?

A great question. I did actually. But back then, I had more energy and was capable of tolerating it.

Would weight lifting improve things? Perhaps? It is hard to say. I am truthfully scared of attempting weight lifting at least until I can stabilize my (waking) temps at 98.4F or better for at LEAST a couple of weeks before easing back into lifting. I believe Nathan Hatch also avoided lifting at least until he started to improve. I think he was doing the protein/sugar shakes since nearly day 1. He also notes in his book when he started getting lazy and not doing the shakes, he started to degrade again. I noticed a similar thing back when I was healthy. I think it was the combination of getting lazy w/ the shakes, on top of being in a toxic relationship, on top of increasing suboptimal foods like too much starch and meats, that ultimately led to my downfall. Bad environment + bad diet is the quickest way to destroy your metabolism. As I found out the hard way.

I do know, that once I start to more or less get diet on point, my next steps will be to shift my focus on how to manipulate the diet in the context of weightlifting, on top of design an anabolic workout routine (one that improves my androgens) which I suspect will be very short, high-ish intensity workouts that avoid the lactic acid buildups (but now I know tricks to mitigate any lactic acid that does crop up like big doses of baking soda before and/or after the workout).
 
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Collden

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I'll just leave this quote here from Ray Peat himself



To put it more humorously --- "If you aren't growing........ you're slowin'"

I don't really believe in "Detox" anymore in the traditional sense. Yes the body needs to be detoxed, but if you feel really bad for ANY reason, you did something wrong and are degenerating as per Ray Peat here.

Meat puts in me in the degenerative state / far from euphoria that Ray speaks of. So called "Detox" reactions that meat is supposedly doing for me is nonsense IMO now. Yes, you can and should be actively detoxing, I'm not saying don't detox, but it should not feel awful on a regular basis, if it does, you're doing it wrong. When you're euphoric and in a high metabolic state, detox symptoms should be barely noticeable.
Regarding his mention of carbon dioxide, have you ever tried buteyko or nasal breathing during exercise? It is the single most potent way to improve breathing and CO2 status. My experience keeps reinforcing the notion that all vibrantly healthy people, even though they may have wildly different diets, all have excellent cardiorespiratory fitness and that working on physical fitness is absolutely essential if you want to reach the highest level of human functioning.
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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Regarding his mention of carbon dioxide, have you ever tried buteyko or nasal breathing during exercise? It is the single most potent way to improve breathing and CO2 status. My experience keeps reinforcing the notion that all vibrantly healthy people, even though they may have wildly different diets, all have excellent cardiorespiratory fitness and that working on physical fitness is absolutely essential if you want to reach the highest level of human functioning.

Another great question and thanks for bringing it up.

Another thing I used to do when I was healthy was deep breathing exercising for at least 10 minutes a day sometimes more. These were recommended by my coaches. I used to think they were a waste of time. I still sometimes under-estimate their usefulness. But I should probably start to do this again. I do recall that back then I saw noticeable increases in libido, that was one of the most immediate "side effects" of higher CO2 lol. Of course this was before I found Ray Peat, and back then I knew nothing about CO2 or that I was inadvertently increasing it by doing this. My coaches sure didn't know anything about CO2.

CO2 is definitely king. And deep breathing, bag breathing, all of these are great ways to increase it.
 

BigChad

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Another great question and thanks for bringing it up.

Another thing I used to do when I was healthy was deep breathing exercising for at least 10 minutes a day sometimes more. These were recommended by my coaches. I used to think they were a waste of time. I still sometimes under-estimate their usefulness. But I should probably start to do this again. I do recall that back then I saw noticeable increases in libido, that was one of the most immediate "side effects" of higher CO2 lol. Of course this was before I found Ray Peat, and back then I knew nothing about CO2 or that I was inadvertently increasing it by doing this. My coaches sure didn't know anything about CO2.

CO2 is definitely king. And deep breathing, bag breathing, all of these are great ways to increase it.

why did the shakes do better than meat, do you think its the calcium phosphorus ratio they positively impacted
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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why did the shakes do better than meat, do you think its the calcium phosphorus ratio they positively impacted

Personally at this point with the experimentation I've done, I don't think so. Well it does but I don't think it's the primary factor. I don't know what it is, but I suspect it is one or more of the following

-- Easier to digest (even in a healthy person, powders digest in 2 hrs vs 7 hrs for meat, I was reading this earlier) which means it doesn't cause a backlog of foods to digest as readily. To some, this is a negative as in the health world, slower digesting foods are seen as a positive. In reality, and in my opinion, its best to stick to easy to digest foods, and rely on the post-prandial (ie, post feeding) maintenance of blood sugar etc.
-- May produce less ammonia than meat on a per gram protein basis
-- Tryptophan in the powders may more readily convert to niacin instead of serotonin
-- May have better utility rate (solid proteins at best are 45% utilization rate, with at least 55% and usually 70%+ of the food wasted and not absorbed)

... Will require more experimentation to see if I even do better on powders or not though, and it's what i'm playing with now the next few weeks.
 

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