Gelatin Can Acutally Increase Serotonin

Vinero

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Hello all, I live in the Netherlands and the only Gelatin that is available here are Gelatin sheets made from pork skin. So I use these as my source for the anti-inflammatory, anti-serotonin amino acids.
I usually heat milk in the microwave and then dissolve the Gelatin in the hot milk. After an hour or so, I usually feel more relaxed and clear-headed. This is likely the GABA-like effect of the Gelatin.

A few weeks ago I had very disturbing sensations in my body: pressure inside my head, intestines making weird noises, very negative thinking and difficulty sleeping. I cut out all peatarian foods and went back to a very simple diet consisting of just meat and white rice for a week.
This solved the problem. Day by day I started adding Peat approved foods, first milk and cheese. Then sugar and fruit-juice. Symptoms didn't return so far.
Then I added Gelatin back in and 2 days later I got the disturbing body sensations again. I also added taurine during this time as it is supposed to lower serotonin. Check this study :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7693110
Adding Taurine also resulted in pressure in my head and negative thinking.

My theory is that Gelatin and Taurine if they are uncooked feed bad bacteria/endotoxin in my intenstines. They feed off the amino acids and multiply, going into my bloodstream and releasing massive amounts of serotonin which explains my migraine like symptoms and very negative thinking. Normally I am a very fun oriented person. But when the endotoxin is in my gut, I do not want to do fun things anymore. I'd rather stay at home alone watch tv and be safe (anti-social
behavior).

Taurine and Gelatin normally should lower serotonin. But when you can't digest them properly they feed endotoxin and actually increase serotonin! So watch out people! I definetely think that Taurine and Gelatin are very good supplements as they lift my mood within an hour, and my mood stays up, for a day or two. Then the bad bacteria take over and I feel like a mess.

My question is this: Can you cook the gelatin and taurine in boiling water without destroying the amino-acids? As I said, Gelatin and Taurine do lift my mood initially so I really want to tolerate them and reap their amazing relaxing, mood-lifting benefits.
benefits!
 

Swandattur

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You can cook gelatin for quite a while with no problem, although I think very long cooking produces more histamines. I can't eat gelatin in any form I've tried. I don't know if it's histamines in gelatin that bother me or if it's that it feeds some bacteria. I think I must not digest it fast enough, and then the bacteria get a chance at it. Glad you posted this, because I think comparing experiences with foods and supplements helps sort out what is going on. I can't eat ground egg shell either. It has some of the same stuff in it as gelatin.
 
J

j.

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I wonder about what would happen if you try very small amounts. For example, 1/4 tsp per day for a few days. Then maybe that amount twice a day.
 

jyb

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I was already aware that undigested gelatin would feed bacteria, for that reason I prefer to take spread my gelatin into 2 or 3 doses over the day.

Maybe you'd be less prone to that if you get the hydrolyzed gelatin (eg from Great Lakes)? The hydrolyzed stuff is like water when dissolved.
 

fyo

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I had a routine with Now Foods gelatin, that was working well. I ran out of that gelatin, and bought some from the grocer nearby. I was processing the new gelatin the same as the old gelatin, but it integrated in the water differently, and it caused very loud noises in my gut. I'm not sure why the difference.
 

Mittir

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Traditionally people get their gelatin by boiling collagen rich parts of animals for days, though RP
recommends around 3 hours of boiling. It does not seem like boiling will destroy amino acids.
RP thinks completely dissolving gelatin in warm water makes it easier to digest.
What jyb said about hydrolyzed gelatin is true, this version of gelatin is very easy to digest.
RP has also said that people tend to have more problem with pork gelatin than beef gelatin.
If you do not have access to hydrolyzed gelatin,( this is partially digested) you can make your own gelatin broth and add
pretolytic enzymes like papaya, pineapple, ginger etc. I read one study that found papaya do the best
job of breaking down gelatin protein. The end product is similar to hydrolyzed gelatin.
Some people are allergic to these enzymes, especially papaya and pineapple.
Another option you have is to use glycine supplement. Though RP believes most supplements are of poor quality
and causes problems. He did mention Magnesium Glycinate in this article, but not sure if he is really recommending it for use .
There are several prescription drugs that protect against serotonin excess, but thyroid and gelatin (or glycine, as in magnesium glycinate) are protective against the serotonin and melatonin toxicities. --http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/aging-eyes.shtml

Avoiding food that irritate stomach is the most effective way to lower serotonin and using daily raw carrot salad.
RP also warns about impurities and excipient in supplements causing gut irritation.
 

Swandattur

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If ginger breaks down protein, maybe that's one reason it helps with nausea. Thanks for all the helpful information, Mittir.
 

Bluebell

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Mittir said:
What jyb said about hydrolyzed gelatin is true, this version of gelatin is very easy to digest.

Your answer is very helpful Mittir, thank you.

Could it be possible, though, that hydrolyzed gelatin could cause more problems, because of the tiny size of the particles going through the gut wall into the bloodstream and causing allergy? I've no idea if this is possible, just wondering.

I'm wondering whether to try it.
 

Bluebell

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Vinero said:
My theory is that Gelatin and Taurine if they are uncooked feed bad bacteria/endotoxin in my intenstines. They feed off the amino acids and multiply, going into my bloodstream and releasing massive amounts of serotonin which explains my migraine like symptoms and very negative thinking.

I wonder if, as well as cooking it well, we should always eat it with solid food, then maybe it would digest properly?

It's a bit of a problem though as most of the Peat diet is liquid.
 

Dutchie

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@vinero i dont know where you live in the netherlands but the gelatinpowder from Erica Kruideryen is made from beef.
Do you suffer the same when you made jello or gummies with it?

Im having mixed thougths about gelatin too.
I once. Saw in a cooking vid on making broth that you shouldnt cook bones longer than 3hours bc after 3hours msg/glutamate starts to form.
So it made me wonder if that migth be a hidden cause in the processing of the powder...its cooking time and possible formation of msg?
 

natedawggh

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Gelatin is not an amino acid. It's a combination of a handful of different amino acids. Taurine is an amino acid, and Ray Peat often warns against taking free amino acids, because it is the ratios of these acids in your body that have beneficial effects, and the way they interact with each other, and that free aminos can often be dangerous. You didn't say what else you were taking in the way of supplements when you experienced this discomfort, and say adding taurine caused head pressure, this was most certainly e culprit. Whole food sources of everything are recommended by DR Peat for these reasons, and I definitely wouldn't take any free amino chronically. That's just asking for trouble.
 

Swandattur

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What about free glutamate in gelatin? Gelatin just doesn't seem to do too well for me. I wondered if that could be a problem if free amino acids are not a good thing.

I have been taking some magnesium glycinate and some magnesium taurate lately. They seem to do okay for me. They do better than magnesium oxide. I read that those types of magnesium supplements could help with depression.
 

NooMoahk

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Swandattur said:
What about free glutamate in gelatin? Gelatin just doesn't seem to do too well for me. I wondered if that could be a problem if free amino acids are not a good thing.

I have been taking some magnesium glycinate and some magnesium taurate lately. They seem to do okay for me. They do better than magnesium oxide. I read that those types of magnesium supplements could help with depression.

I have also had good results with magnesium taurate in terms of sleep and anxiety, but that was before peat. I got no results other than constipation relief from magnesium sulfate, magnesium citrate, or magnesium oxide. Now I get plenty in coffee and other foods and don't feel deficient.
 

lindsay

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I had a really horrible reaction to Knox gelatin when I first started eating the stuff. Then I switched to Great Lakes Bovine Gelatin and had no troubles. But really, I think the most affordable way to get gelatin is to make your own broth. Lamb shanks have a ton of gelatin in them. Two lamb shanks cooked for a couple of hours in water with a little vinegar and salt will give you a really good gelatin.
Also, if the one you are buying is giving you trouble, I would absolutely switch to beef gelatin. I've heard some people do better on it and from my experience with knox gelatin vs. great lakes bovine, I think it absolutely makes a difference.
 

Swandattur

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NooMoak, right now the glycinate and taurate seem to help me. I think when you have diabetic sort of problem like I do and stress into the bargain, you lose magnesium. So, that might be why I particularly find it helpful.
 

Milky

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Aug 2, 2013
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I have had a red can of the Great Lakes gelatin for over a year now and notice it creates problems when consumed raw versus heated up and dissolved.

If I put a spoonful in cool water and let it gel, then add hot water or coffee, it dissolves well and I notice no ill effect.

When I've mixed it cold into juice or just sprinkled it into food, I get an upset stomach and digestive discomfort/issues.

Mixing pure glycine powder into cold beverages is fine though.
 
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