Childhood Abuse - How to Forgive?

[Razvan]

Are you on NoFap brother? You sure seem like someone whose goal is to maximize androgens

Nope ,i'm not.

 

[Cloudhands]

do you still have a relationship with your mother?

 

[GermanTruther]

do you still have a relationship with your mother?

It’s all good. The raw milk always makes me have PTSD symptoms.

 

[GermanTruther]

do you still have a relationship with your mother?

Nope ,i'm not.

Why? Porn is super harmful for testosterone bro. Also lowers dopamine and increases prolactin.

 

[Razvan]

Why? Porn is super harmful for testosterone bro. Also lowers dopamine and increases prolactin.

I don't watch porn Brother ,i meant i don't restrict ejaculation, i have almost daily intercourse with various girls.

 

[Birdie]

Sure bro, you win

I thought I was standing up for OP and was looking at increased c02 only as a positive side effect of wearing masks, not the sole reason to wear a mask because bag breathing would be easier and probably more effective. However, I am curious about the efficacy of mask-wearing in preventing the spread of pathogens in general (not just covid) and would love to find out more about that or maybe revisit this topic here when members can stomach it.

@GermanTruther Do you still live with your mom or recently moved back home? Did something happen recently to precipitate re-traumatization?

I've read a lot of info on masks these past almost 2 years, so there is much available.

I wanted to come back here because I realized something regarding forgiveness. And that was the op's question I realize. As I understand it forgiveness can be given when someone asks for it. It takes an apology and a desire on the part of the person who seeks forgiveness.

But I think, in this case, it's seen as something you grant without any request. It's thought to be therapeutic to forgive. I see that, but, at the same time, in a case like the one we are looking at, we have the problem that the Malignant Narcissist hasn't requested forgiveness and has the attitude there is nothing to forgive.

And with the assumption or knowledge that MNs will not change, see no reason to change, blame the victim rather than themselves... you can see where this goes.

 

[aniciete]

Yea - for raw carrot I do think it reduces androgens - What I do to minimize beta-carotene in it is I cut the outer skin off of the carrot and only consume smaller parts of the inner once a day - the effect is still there but it's slightly better in my view

Are you still eating a little carrot to lower endotoxin or do you find just pineapple is good enough?

 

[Adf]

(19/M)

I‘ve been emotionally and physically abused by mother since I was a child. She wasn’t a bad mother over all, she did a lot to make me happy and I was taken care of.
Unfortunately, I think she’s mentally ill or just has a destroyed gut which made her unleash all her anger and frustration onto me.
I was severely emotionally tortured and insulted, made fun of and told I should have never been born etc.
The typical stuff a stressed parents tells their children. Also physically abused and basically grew up being scared when she’ll have another breakdown.
On top of this my parents divorced when I was 8.. so yeah imagine that, the only person who was always nice and chill (my dad) had to leave the house. Super traumatizing.
Funnily enough whenever I consume raw animal foods, my desire for revenge increases a lot and all i re-experience all the trauma in my head. Drank fermented raw milk yesterday and now all the memories come back.. this always happens.
My questions:

1. What causes a parent to physically and emotionally abuse THEIR OWN child?

2. Why does something like raw milk make me re-experience all the trauma?

I'm sorry to hear you have such trauma from your own family member. I myself had a traumatizing childhood with an alcoholic mother growing up. I have found regular meditation, breathwork, intentional smiling, visualizing an inner smile, and having the belief that everything always works out well has helped me immensely.

It's all up to you but you could try doing these, including Wim Hoff method, and start by telling yourself you want to forgive. That is, if you want to forgive. Forgiving her is imo the only way for you to completely heal and move forward. Wanting to forgive will be the first step in forgiving.

First of all, I apologise if I come across as unempathetic as I go on, as I am naturally a blunt and straightforward person.

Once again, just a suggestion, If your mother and father are still alive, you might also want to speak to them about this in a serious adult conversation. No yelling, no bickering, no blaming, no finger pointing, just sit down and lay out the facts and feelings. Don't leave dad out either, he is at just as much fault as your mother with your trauma, as he failed his most important job as a father to keep you safe. You could write everything in a letter and hand it to them to read. If they have passed on, you can still write the letter and read it aloud.

I also tend to speak in a manner of certainty, but keep in mind everything I mention below is theoretical and what simply makes most sense to me.

For your first question, many things can cause this but one of the biggest factors is how the parent was raised themselves as a child. You see, the first 7 years of a persons life, the child learns every single thing through theta brainwaves, so subconscious learning. You can think of your brain as having layers. Each new thing learnt is another layer added on top of the previous. What you see in the first 7 years is literally within the deepest parts of your subconscious mind, that is covered with layers upon layers of everything learnt afterward.

The deepest layers of the subconscious are the first things the child learns, through observation, and those deepest layers are nearly unshakable. They're learnt before consciousness, before conscious memory is developed and while it is in the early stages of development. They're there and likely won't go anywhere without meditation, brain training, hypnosis or some sort of trauma or life changing event.

If a parent abuses the child, the child then subconsciously learns that this is how parents treat children. So when the child becomes conscious, and learns consciously that harming a child is bad, that conscious knowledge is just a layer built on top of the much deeper subconscious layer formed from the abuse. Serious Trauma also can cut through and form deeper layers.

This is why most if not all child abusers (pedo's etc), were themselves abused as children. It's in the deepest parts of their subconscious mind. Now I'm not saying all children abused grow up to become abusers, just that those who do grow up to become abusers, were almost definitely themselves abused.

It could be something that the child saw, at 2 years of age, they consciously don't know what is happening, they don't remember it happening because their conscious mind isn't fully developed, but they observe it, it is now one of the deepest layers of their subconscious. This can affect the person for their entire life, and they would never know it, for they don't remember it. Eg. Someone could be deathly afraid of water their whole life and don't know why, not having remembered nearly drowning at 2 years old.


As for Q2, I believe that eating more animal product will make you more aggressive. Specifically meat though, I'm not sure about the milk. There are numerous ways to potentially explain this theory. One of which..

Your body is very smart and adaptable. If there's plenty of plants and vegetation to eat, your body doesn't have to be fast or assertive. It can be calm, slow and conserving, as you have an abundance of fruits and vegetables.
When there is no fruits/vegetation such as in frigid or arid environments, then to survive you must eat animals. However to eat animals you must hunt and therefore you must be quick, powerful, and aggressive. When you eat meat, you are telling your body it needs to adapt to be more efficient at hunting meat. Your metabolism will increase, you will see more signs of aggression, your body will grow stronger and more powerful. We have likely evolved this way in order to survive.

The milk may increase your aggression because there are chemicals in milk that cause growth, and perhaps some level of aggression (or more specifically stress) is always seen with growth factors?

 

[YourUniverse]

Read about family systems approach. Learn how to self differentiate. Watch Jerry Wise it helped changed my husband's life because he had an enmeshment with his Mom and never could be a man when he lived near her. It has also helped me. His videos are medicine for those who didn't receive what they needed growing up. Intellectualizing recovery won't serve you. It's not just about your physical health, these are skills that need to be learned, eating a metabolic diet won't solve your toxic family system.

Thank you.

 

[noodlecat]

Read about family systems approach. Learn how to self differentiate. Watch Jerry Wise it helped changed my husband's life because he had an enmeshment with his Mom and never could be a man when he lived near her. It has also helped me. His videos are medicine for those who didn't receive what they needed growing up. Intellectualizing recovery won't serve you. It's not just about your physical health, these are skills that need to be learned, eating a metabolic diet won't solve your toxic family system.

i used to watch all these videos about narcissism and read about it and it never really helped me much. it took an enormous amount of mental energy to reprogram my mind like that and it just wasnt fun. true, the only thing to do if the person is really bad is to get away from them to have space to get healthier. but i didnt have money and getting good metabolic health helped me mold my reality to how i want it. i figured out how to get them off my back because i didnt have the money to move away. i think i could do it because they werent really all that bad compared to hardcore toxic people. i think manifesting is a pretty strong ability especially with youthful metabolism

 

[noodlecat]

I don't watch porn Brother ,i meant i don't restrict ejaculation, i have almost daily intercourse with various girls.

you give your vril to thots?

 

[pushkin]

Once again, just a suggestion, If your mother and father are still alive, you might also want to speak to them about this in a serious adult conversation. No yelling, no bickering, no blaming, no finger pointing, just sit down and lay out the facts and feelings. Don't leave dad out either, he is at just as much fault as your mother with your trauma, as he failed his most important job as a father to keep you safe. You could write everything in a letter and hand it to them to read. If they have passed on, you can still write the letter and read it aloud.

I have to disagree here. I have an abusive alcoholic mother. She is still alive. This thread has been great for me to read. She is a Malignant Narcissist. Most abuse took place whilst she was drunk so she has no recollection of being an abuser and therefore I am the one who is at fault - always. She will never change this view. There is absolutely no way I could sit down and have a serious adult conversation with her. I tried it, I wrote letters and did all of that stuff. There is no way I could lay down the facts and feelings for her to digest calmly and without drama. No way.

They can never change and will not change. They always mix in some good with the torture and hide their behavior from outsiders.

yes, absolutely, and I do not think there is any point trying to change them, especially if you are trying to 'expose' them in order to show them how much you suffered under their hands. They told you all their life how much they suffered, and now you want to let them know by laying everything out for them, that you too suffered, well unfortunately that is not what they want to hear. They will deny everything and turn it around to make you out as the 'abuser' of the family. They have mixed in just enough of the good stuff to confuse you "Well she actually was a good mother despite it all". That is their great skill and the one thing that helps the status quo to continue. They are able to show you that you are the one who is bad, disruptive, speaking lies (actually the truth) and always stirring things up because, at the end of the day, they believe they were a good mother and did a good job.

You will be damned if you do and damned if you don't. I spent many years in a state of paralysis unable to push back against her, unable to leave (for many reasons - mainly because I have children myself and in order to break the cycle from one generation to the next, I had to face up to the difficulties and not run away although i would have been fine at any moment in the last forty years to have never seen her again). It has been a constant negotiation - having as little to do with her as possible, and yet just having enough contact with her so that she believes the status quo continues as it always has - which I realise now is exactly what my father spent most of his time doing. She has no idea and probably never will - she will go to her grave thinking she was and is a wonderful mother and I was the difficult child. Nothing I can do will change this and so I just get on with my life and hope it hasn't impacted upon my children too much.

I know I will be relieved when she passes away but I am not sure as yet if I will mourn her passing - I will have to wait and see. Perhaps the fact that she herself was a victim will become more apparent after she has passed on, I am not sure. Uncharted territory for sure.

 

[JamesGatz]

Are you still eating a little carrot to lower endotoxin or do you find just pineapple is good enough?

I do both - I eat pineapple throughout the day after each meal then a little bit of carrot before I go to sleep. With pineapple alone my digestion is still quiet clean, but I feel like carrot does more of a necessary deep clean

 

[Birdie]

I have to disagree here. I have an abusive alcoholic mother. She is still alive. This thread has been great for me to read. She is a Malignant Narcissist. Most abuse took place whilst she was drunk so she has no recollection of being an abuser and therefore I am the one who is at fault - always. She will never change this view. There is absolutely no way I could sit down and have a serious adult conversation with her. I tried it, I wrote letters and did all of that stuff. There is no way I could lay down the facts and feelings for her to digest calmly and without drama. No way.



yes, absolutely, and I do not think there is any point trying to change them, especially if you are trying to 'expose' them in order to show them how much you suffered under their hands. They told you all their life how much they suffered, and now you want to let them know by laying everything out for them, that you too suffered, well unfortunately that is not what they want to hear. They will deny everything and turn it around to make you out as the 'abuser' of the family. They have mixed in just enough of the good stuff to confuse you "Well she actually was a good mother despite it all". That is their great skill and the one thing that helps the status quo to continue. They are able to show you that you are the one who is bad, disruptive, speaking lies (actually the truth) and always stirring things up because, at the end of the day, they believe they were a good mother and did a good job.

You will be damned if you do and damned if you don't. I spent many years in a state of paralysis unable to push back against her, unable to leave (for many reasons - mainly because I have children myself and in order to break the cycle from one generation to the next, I had to face up to the difficulties and not run away although i would have been fine at any moment in the last forty years to have never seen her again). It has been a constant negotiation - having as little to do with her as possible, and yet just having enough contact with her so that she believes the status quo continues as it always has - which I realise now is exactly what my father spent most of his time doing. She has no idea and probably never will - she will go to her grave thinking she was and is a wonderful mother and I was the difficult child. Nothing I can do will change this and so I just get on with my life and hope it hasn't impacted upon my children too much.

I know I will be relieved when she passes away but I am not sure as yet if I will mourn her passing - I will have to wait and see. Perhaps the fact that she herself was a victim will become more apparent after she has passed on, I am not sure. Uncharted territory for sure.

Learning that there is no way to "talk it through with them" has been an important step. Still I find myself thinking it might be possible and need to remind myself that it is not. Sadly, I have one in my life right now.

 

[pushkin]

Learning that there is no way to "talk it through with them" has been an important step. Still I find myself thinking it might be possible and need to remind myself that it is not. I have one in my life right now. It's been horrible realizing the path she has taken.

I think there has to be a certain amount of letting go, absolutely. I fought against it for a long time, thinking that I could 'make things better' - the moment I understood that I could NEVER make the situation better, things started to improve for me, although she changed not one iota during that time. This may be part of the forgiving process but only because you start to forgive yourself by letting go. Once you start to understand that that person has managed to be at the forefront of your thoughts and actions for like forever, you can start to allow other things take priority and the world starts to become interesting and enjoyable again and that is a very good thing indeed.

 

[Birdie]

I think there has to be a certain amount of letting go, absolutely. I fought against it for a long time, thinking that I could 'make things better' - the moment I understood that I could NEVER make the situation better, things started to improve for me, although she changed not one iota during that time. This may be part of the forgiving process but only because you start to forgive yourself by letting go. Once you start to understand that that person has managed to be at the forefront of your thoughts and actions for like forever, you can start to allow other things take priority and the world starts to become interesting and enjoyable again and that is a very good thing indeed.

I see a lot to agree with there. On the subject of forgiveness, I believe the word has changed it's meaning with time. It used to include somebody's asking for it. Then, the person who was wronged would give forgiveness and the relationship was restored. Now, I see people using it to mean something like acceptance. The abuser or scoundrel or whatever you want to call that person doesn't ask for forgiveness. Doesn't have to know that there was any bad behavior to be forgiven.

I've felt this kind of forgiveness or acceptance and it is a wonderful feeling.