How To Change Facial Features And Skull Shape

[Arrade]

Everything we here on this forum identify as negative qualities inevitably tie back to estrogen. America is the most estrogen dominant nation in the world lol our common lifestyle perpetuates estrogen dominance from childhood to adulthood. We eat vegetable oil laiden, iron enriched, whole grain, vegetable based diets. Those of who eat meat/tuber based diets are the ones chowing down on Mcdonalds hamburgers and fries. Men here develop estrogen based cancers like prostate cancer which is wrongfully identified as an issue with dht, women develop feminine cancers in tissues that naturally harbor a high estrogen content. Our milk has a high level of estradiol in its fatty versions and our drinking water vies us with 60% more bpa than sea life get...what else would all that be but an overly feminine society?

Edit: though this doesn't mean I'm arguing against the biomechanical changes you mentioned You're probably right

I agree on most counts but I think the estrogen concern in milk was negligible.

 

[Jon]

I agree on most counts but I think the estrogen concern in milk was negligible.

Either way, it didn't bode well...

Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Arrade]

Either way, it didn't bode well...

Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI

Interesting about the serum part.
I believe I was following a thread that discussed this.
I know one of the arguments was that urine concentration meant nothing because it was just excreted by the body, not having effect.

I’ve had estrogen in low range while drinking around 16-24 oz of milk daily and not anti-aromatase compounds/supps.

I’m open minded but you may find the thread that alleviated my concern, I’ll being reading it again for my own benefit

 

[Jon]

Interesting about the serum part.
I believe I was following a thread that discussed this.
I know one of the arguments was that urine concentration meant nothing because it was just excreted by the body, not having effect.

I’ve had estrogen in low range while drinking around 16-24 oz of milk daily and not anti-aromatase compounds/supps.

I’m open minded but you may find the thread that alleviated my concern, I’ll being reading it again for my own benefit

I still drink 24oz of milk a day, just fat free. I'm pretty sure the only concern was for milk with a fat content.

But to my argument earlier, how many people you know who drink milk (that aren't in the peatosphere) who drink it skim? Everyone I know just b I t c h es about how it tastes lol

 

[Arrade]

I still drink 24oz of milk a day, just fat free. I'm pretty sure the only concern was for milk with a fat content.

But to my argument earlier, how man people you know who drink milk (that aren't in the peatosphere) who drink it skim? Everyone I know just b I t c h es about how it tastes lol

I used to drink 1%.
I drink full milk atm because of the higher calories, fat content, higher Vit D content, and higher offering of IGF-1

As someone who drinks full milk I was on the lookout for health concerns for milk with fat and from my memory the write ups I read assuaged my fears of estrogen poisoning.

 

[Jon]

I used to drink 1%.
I drink full milk atm because of the higher calories, fat content, higher Vit D content, and higher offering of IGF-1

As someone who drinks full milk I was on the lookout for health concerns for milk with fat and from my memory the write ups I read assuaged my fears of estrogen poisoning.

Eh I'm not keen to risk it. The liver has been shown to wick out most of those estrogens but I'd rather not burden it at all lol.

 

[Elephanto]

I used to drink 1%.
I drink full milk atm because of the higher calories, fat content, higher Vit D content, and higher offering of IGF-1

As someone who drinks full milk I was on the lookout for health concerns for milk with fat and from my memory the write ups I read assuaged my fears of estrogen poisoning.

Btw an High IGF-1:IGFBP-3 ratio is predictive of male pattern baldness and also high in Prostate cancer and other types. Milk contains intact IGF-1 so this ratio increases because IGFBP-3 isn't increased. I've talked a lot about IGFBP-3 before, which is what you don't want downregulated to protect against male pattern baldness, it inhibits excessive keratinocytes proliferation which leads to scalp fibrosis. Estrogen, Iron, Endotoxins, Vitamin D deficiency, Ammonia, lack of Magnesium, Arginine, lack of Vitamin A, Zinc deficiency and Arachidonic Acid are known to downregulate it.

https://www.mcgill.ca/pollak-lab/fi...ing_plasma_insulin_like_growth_factor_1_0.pdf

31% more chance of balding with a 1 standard deviation increase of IGF-1 :

Compared with men who were not balding, for a 1 standard deviation increase in plasma IGF-1 level (72.4ng/mL), the OR for vertex balding was 1.31 (95% CI, 0.95-1.81)

38% less chance of balding with a 1 standard deviation increase in IGFBP-3 (so a lower IGF1:IGFBP-3 ratio)

For a 1 standard deviation increase in plasma IGFBP-3 (957 ng/mL), the OR for vertex balding was 0.62

And the Estrogen link :

Estradiol-17beta (E2) decreased the Igfbp3 mRNA level in endometrial stromal cells, whereas it increased the Igf1 mRNA level.

A "safe" (in relation to mpb) way to increase IGF-1 is to trigger Growth Hormone, which proportionally increases both IGF-1 and IGFBP-3. This is why people with pituitary diseases of excessive growth hormone production are not more likely to go bald like the men with high IGF-1:IGFBP-3 ratios, and they also have prominant brow ridges, facial deformities but usually strong hair.

Anyway I think if you take care of the things that downregulate IGFBP-3, the IGF-1 in milk is probably not a too big cause of concern. And from your pics, your hormonal state looks pretty good. The Masai usually have very bad hairlines though. Personally I had very high Iron (as I wrote, IGFBP-3/p53 inhibitor) and a few months on high dairy gave me hairline recession back then. I stopped as soon as I noticed and it stopped progressing.

 

[Arrade]

Btw an High IGF-1:IGFBP-3 ratio is predictive of male pattern baldness and also high in Prostate cancer and other types. Milk contains intact IGF-1 so this ratio increases because IGFBP-3 isn't increased. I've talked a lot about IGFBP-3 before, which is what you don't want downregulated to protect against male pattern baldness, it inhibits excessive keratinocytes proliferation which leads to scalp fibrosis. Estrogen, Iron, Endotoxins, Vitamin D deficiency, Ammonia, lack of Magnesium, Arginine, lack of Vitamin A, Zinc deficiency and Arachidonic Acid are known to downregulate it.

https://www.mcgill.ca/pollak-lab/fi...ing_plasma_insulin_like_growth_factor_1_0.pdf

31% more chance of balding with a 1 standard deviation increase of IGF-1 :


38% less chance of balding with a 1 standard deviation increase in IGFBP-3 (so a lower IGF1:IGFBP-3 ratio)


And the Estrogen link :


A "safe" (in relation to mpb) way to increase IGF-1 is to trigger Growth Hormone, which proportionally increases both IGF-1 and IGFBP-3. This is why people with pituitary diseases of excessive growth hormone production are not more likely to go bald like the men with high IGF-1:IGFBP-3 ratios, and they also have prominant brow ridges, facial deformities but usually strong hair.

Anyway I think if you take care of the things that downregulate IGFBP-3, the IGF-1 in milk is probably not a too big cause of concern. And from your pics, your hormonal state looks pretty good. The Masai usually have very bad hairlines though. Personally I had very high Iron (as I wrote, IGFBP-3/p53 inhibitor) and a few months on high dairy gave me hairline recession back then. I stopped as soon as I noticed and it stopped progressing.

I do remember you discussing Igfbp3, Danny Roddy also discusses IGF in his liver centrality article.
I recently tested in the normal range of Iron and Vit D, I will look further into igfbp3 myself

 

[Arrade]

@Elephanto calcification and fibrosis are seperate phenomena, right?
Just decacifying wouldn’t be enough, you’d have to utilize taurine I imagine, thought I don’t really understand if regrowth is a linear or patchy process.
Iodine is anti-fibrotic and anti estrogen as well, I was reading and it seemed possible Ray Peat was archaic in his views of iodine.

 

[Arrade]

@Elephanto also have you read about aspirin and gelatin/collagen that Danny advises? It seems the glycine in gelatin is anti inflammatory and anti fibrotic.
I was considering aspirin as well, did you ever use either?

 

[Elephanto]

I do remember you discussing Igfbp3, Danny Roddy also discusses IGF in his liver centrality article.
I recently tested in the normal range of Iron and Vit D, I will look further into igfbp3 myself

That study I just posted is one of the most important about mpb, which was hard to find again for a while. Once you research everything that downregulates IGFBP-3 and take steps to correct it, it 100% at least stops further progression. It kind of links everything together, Iron promoting Endotoxins while also having IGFBP-3 inhibiting properties on its own. Cortisol promoting Estrogen etc. The BB.come guide also takes care of most of those things except Iron, vit D and Arginine (you can lower protein intake for this, or do high dose Lysine for a while). For instance Arachidonic Acid is Omega 6, and he was resplenishing in O3, sat fats and Vit E to protect against it. O3 is a bad idea if you take the time to read Peat and it's unnecessary when you just minimize O6 but he still was on the right path.

Calcification and fibrosis are essentially the same. It's an excess of collagen/keratinocytes that calcifies. Basically you can call any decalcifying agent anti-fibrotic but they don't necessarily remove keratinocytes. Maybe only topical Vitamin A may be able to do this. Focusing on IGFBP-3 insures that the excessive production stops. A reason why high Iodine might not damage the thyroid is when people are high in Fluoride which drastically inhibits Iodine uptake by the thyroid gland so they barely absorb any. When corrected with Boron, I think one should be more careful. It's not only Peat, there were many studies showing thyroid damage-induced hypothyroidism from high Iodine intake in one Iodine thread here.

Yeah Aspirin has two problems in my views. At low and medium doses it only inhibits the COX-2 pathway of Arachidonic Acid, redirecting it toward the also inflammatory Lipoxygenase pathway (LOX metabolites are increased in several Aspirin studies) and Lipoxygenase is actually much more causative in Prostate Cancer than COX-2. Many of my hair strategies are closely linked with Prostate Cancer prevention so it's not something I'm going to risk. It can also cause intestinal permeability (so increasing Endotoxins), it is pretty harsh on the gut. And it's also a crutch that can cause rebound effects. I've not really seen any positive testimonies regarding hair with Aspirin on the internet. Minimizing O6 intake and taking Vit E have pretty much the same effect in a safer and more broadly systemic way.

Glycine is nice, but I discovered it much after getting most of my regrowth and following the BB.com guide. As it potently increases MTOR and 5-alpha reductase in the 2-6g doses, I prefer to go for lower doses where important benefits happen as low as 500mg.

edit : About removing keratinocytes, maybe also detumescence/scalp massaging does this since it has achieved 100% regrowth. Then with the BB.com guide, his only topical other than ACV and Nizoral were Boron and Niacinamide, either they do this or the long-term effect of raising back IGFBP-3 levels leads to the disappearance of the excess keratinocytes as they recycle.

 

[Elephanto]

@Arrade Since you train, there's also two things you can change to have an influence on IGFBP-3.

1. Never train up to significant exhaustion (fatigue that lasts after the training, you should feel energized after). Because in soccer players, those that felt fatigued after the game got a decrease in IGFBP-3 levels, and those that didn't feel fatigued got an increase in IGFBP-3. So just training daily within your capacity can help with hair and cancer beyond improved blood/lymph circulation, just as going beyond your capacity slowly kills you and your hair.

2. Doing cardio before strength training raises IGFBP-3 and Testosterone levels, but not strength before cardio.

Order Effects Of Combined Strength And Endurance Training On IGFBP3

 

[General Orange]

That study I just posted is one of the most important about mpb, which was hard to find again for a while. Once you research everything that downregulates IGFBP-3 and take steps to correct it, it 100% at least stops further progression. It kind of links everything together, Iron promoting Endotoxins while also having IGFBP-3 inhibiting properties on its own. Cortisol promoting Estrogen etc. The BB.come guide also takes care of most of those things except Iron, vit D and Arginine (you can lower protein intake for this, or do high dose Lysine for a while). For instance Arachidonic Acid is Omega 6, and he was resplenishing in O3, sat fats and Vit E to protect against it. O3 is a bad idea if you take the time to read Peat and it's unnecessary when you just minimize O6 but he still was on the right path.

Calcification and fibrosis are essentially the same. It's an excess of collagen/keratinocytes that calcifies. Basically you can call any decalcifying agent anti-fibrotic but they don't necessarily remove keratinocytes. Maybe only topical Vitamin A may be able to do this. Focusing on IGFBP-3 insures that the excessive production stops. A reason why high Iodine might not damage the thyroid is when people are high in Fluoride which drastically inhibits Iodine uptake by the thyroid gland so they barely absorb any. When corrected with Boron, I think one should be more careful. It's not only Peat, there were many studies showing thyroid damage-induced hypothyroidism from high Iodine intake in one Iodine thread here.

Yeah Aspirin has two problems in my views. At low and medium doses it only inhibits the COX-2 pathway of Arachidonic Acid, redirecting it toward the also inflammatory Lipoxygenase pathway (LOX metabolites are increased in several Aspirin studies) and Lipoxygenase is actually much more causative in Prostate Cancer than COX-2. Many of my hair strategies are closely linked with Prostate Cancer prevention so it's not something I'm going to risk. It can also cause intestinal permeability (so increasing Endotoxins), it is pretty harsh on the gut. And it's also a crutch that can cause rebound effects. I've not really seen any positive testimonies regarding hair with Aspirin on the internet. Minimizing O6 intake and taking Vit E have pretty much the same effect in a safer and more broadly systemic way.

Glycine is nice, but I discovered it much after getting most of my regrowth and following the BB.com guide. As it potently increases MTOR and 5-alpha reductase in the 2-6g doses, I prefer to go for lower doses where important benefits happen as low as 500mg.

edit : About removing keratinocytes, maybe also detumescence/scalp massaging does this since it has achieved 100% regrowth. Then with the BB.com guide, his only topical other than ACV and Nizoral were Boron and Niacinamide, either they do this or the long-term effect of raising back IGFBP-3 levels leads to the disappearance of the excess keratinocytes as they recycle.

Thanks for the calcification fibrosis link. I have thicker scalp skin and my tendons are stiffer. Is this a good relating read: link ?
edit Excuse me. I think yur confused: Aspirin is a COX-1 inhibitor and only at higher dosage .... starts to inhibit COX-2 and PGE2 (600mg)

 

[Elephanto]

Thanks for the calcification fibrosis link. I have thicker scalp skin and my tendons are stiffer. Is this a good relating read: link ?
edit Excuse me. I think yur confused: Aspirin is a COX-1 inhibitor and only at higher dosage .... starts to inhibit COX-2 and PGE2 (600mg)

Low-dose aspirin also inhibits COX-2-induced PGE2 production
Inhibition of the Biosynthesis of Prostaglandin E2 By Low-Dose Aspirin: Implications for Adenocarcinoma Metastasis

This is irrelevant to my point though, Arachidonic Acid is still diverted toward Lipoxygenase when any form of COX is inhibited but LOX isn't. There's also studies showing rebound effects once it leaves the system. One benefit of O3 is that it positions itself in membranes to compete with O6 so that Arachidonic Acid is blocked before its conversion into either COX or LOX. O3 is slightly estrogenic and anti-metabolic, but at the same time higher DHA/EPA are correlated with lesser cancer risks for several types. Ideally, if no O6 is consumed it's better to not take any but sometimes I'll have cheat meals so I eat a bit of caviar to compensate. Fish oil is especially bad because it accumulates heavy metals and contaminants from the ocean, caviar being eggs don't have the time to accumulate them.

Yes your link draws a pretty accurate picture of mpb, I haven't examined it all to see if the applied solutions are optimal but you can check my previous posts for what supps and actions worked for me and others.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I used to drink 1%.
I drink full milk atm because of the higher calories, fat content, higher Vit D content, and higher offering of IGF-1

As someone who drinks full milk I was on the lookout for health concerns for milk with fat and from my memory the write ups I read assuaged my fears of estrogen poisoning.

@Arrade I will do the same. No more skim milk for me. I've just ordered raw milk again. I anyway need to gain some weight.

 

[General Orange]

You could always resort to resistance training as the Shaolin monks do, hitting it repeatively with sandbags.

 

[General Orange]

Low-dose aspirin also inhibits COX-2-induced PGE2 production
Inhibition of the Biosynthesis of Prostaglandin E2 By Low-Dose Aspirin: Implications for Adenocarcinoma Metastasis

This is irrelevant to my point though, Arachidonic Acid is still diverted toward Lipoxygenase when any form of COX is inhibited but LOX isn't. There's also studies showing rebound effects once it leaves the system. One benefit of O3 is that it positions itself in membranes to compete with O6 so that Arachidonic Acid is blocked before its conversion into either COX or LOX. O3 is slightly estrogenic and anti-metabolic, but at the same time higher DHA/EPA are correlated with lesser cancer risks for several types. Ideally, if no O6 is consumed it's better to not take any but sometimes I'll have cheat meals so I eat a bit of caviar to compensate. Fish oil is especially bad because it accumulates heavy metals and contaminants from the ocean, caviar being eggs don't have the time to accumulate them.

Yes your link draws a pretty accurate picture of mpb, I haven't examined it all to see if the applied solutions are optimal but you can check my previous posts for what supps and actions worked for me and others.

Allright.
Do you have any idea's how to reduce excessive collagen synthesis, maybe?

 

[Animalinstinct]

With K vitamin, how does the vitamin know what women like in a man’s face?

 

[Arrade]

With K vitamin, how does the vitamin know what women like in a man’s face?

It activates osteocalcin and increases testerone expression in the face by partitioning bone mass appropriately.

 

[Lecarpetron]

Mew only accepts patients under 13 or 14, at that age it's easier to change. My guess is that he's accumulating mass case studies to prove he and his father's method beyond doubt. But in his last Q&A video he recommended the ALF expander for adults that he can not personally treat. ALF is a tooth borne expander (as opposed to tissue borne, do an image search to see the difference) and I've heard that teeth will merely tilt back after treatment ends, though probably less so if one has adopted good passive posture.

Excellent first post on this topic @Nick W. However, I disagree with your ALF description. I have upper and lower ALFs (I'm 35, have had them for 1.5 years). Aside from where they hook onto your first molars, they do not touch your teeth. Have you ever held an ALF? It offers less resistance than a twist tie. Whatever it's doing, it is not moving the teeth by brute mechanical force. It has to be some sort of neurological stimulus.

After traditional braces and poor maxilla development resulted in my teeth tipped inwards, I actually wish the ALFs would tip them out more! My teeth have shifted into a much broader arch, but I wish they would tip out more within the arch. I went to a "normal" dentist for a cleaning the other day and brought pre-ALF x-rays with me. They insisted on taking new x-rays, and when they compared them, the dentist flat out didn't believe my pre and post x-rays were of the same person.

I originally got ALFs because of severe airway restriction and TMJ compression/displacement, not to change my looks, and I don't think they have changed my overall facial structure besides my jaw. Mike Mew said that adults need to be expanded at least 1mm per week to generate sufficient force to impact cranial bones outside of the jaw, and ALFs cannot do that. So while I wouldn't suggest ALFs to anyone who wants to widen their overall craniofacial structure, they are life changing for those with compressed airways, and I'm quite sure that they do more than tip teeth. When I get my final CT scan, I will share it here. My ALF dentist thinks my airway has about doubled so far.

p.s. to add to Nick's first post, I would add that ROLFing is a great way to restore overall posture and shift neurological range of motion. Second to that would be manipulation by a good osteopath.