"Carnivore MD" Jumping On The "Carbs Aren't The Issue" Bandwagon

[PaRa]

LMAO even raw milk is bashed on carnivore forum bc of carbs

Even if laughable, I think it’s a good thing that some of them like saladino and Armstrong sisters bring back sugar
people will see that sugar isn’t the problem

 

[Jessie]

You can't really jump to extreme conclusions like carnivore "cured" autoimmune disease when almost any elimination diet will do the same. You're not cured unless you can go back and eat liberal amounts of whatever was giving you immune reactions. Almost no one on the carnivore diet is successful because they have to keep being carnivore for it to work, lol.

 

[julcreutz]

I don’t doubt they’d all tolerate fruits / juices / honey more than fine. But they obviously gobbled all the “science” on sugar being the worst of all evils. Try to talk about honey on r/carnivore you’ll get a nice DM from moderators nowadays, saying you’ve been censored.

They aren’t exactly attracting sympathy.

I was actually banned on r/carnivore for mentioning honey.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

@julcreutz how not surprising. I insulted a mod who deleted my post about honey, quoting a thread from the same subreddit from a year ago, that discussed honey right there in their lil precious space. Power tripping & hating on the other side in 2020 is quite the phenomenon.

speaking of which - I’m thinking that one of the reasons why carnivore works is thanks to all of that tyrosine. It’s a dopaminergic diet. I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that tons of people have abysmal dopamine/serotonin ratios and eating any carbohydrates won’t do. If an animal is caged and fed whatever deemed “optimal” it will become depressed and sick. Of course even worse if fed junk. The obvious solution is fixing the environment. Same goes for humans. In the meantime, I can see how low dopamine people benefit from this. Not everyone who’s sick has low dopamine thou.

So there could be that.... grabs some dark chocolate while thinking about the good old days going to parks bars clubs

 

[HLP]

My T3 totally crashed on Carnivore. Feel much stronger and energetic with addition of carbs.

 

[julcreutz]

My T3 totally crashed on Carnivore. Feel much stronger and energetic with addition of carbs.

@Vegancrossfit

Same.

 

[opson123]

That’s what it was for me exactly- a last ditch effort. Ray Peat and this forum helped get me out of a horrific situation and taught me to think for myself and listen to my body. I’m doing more a little more carbs and dairy after 14.5 months without any problems. It truly has been the ultimate elimination diet for my situation and my health is at a place I never imagined I would experience. I’m probably one of the outliers due to my celiac and oxalate issues though and don’t think it’s necessary or optimal for most people.

Great! It gives hope seeing other people succeeding.

 

[TopGun1911]

He’s now talking about thyroid. Pretty funny eh.

 

[julcreutz]

He’s now talking about thyroid. Pretty funny eh.

Yeah I'm following what he's doing. Now onto PUFA bandwagon too :)

 

[tankasnowgod]

The level of hate carnivore gets on this forum is hilarious. Zero carb definitely didn’t work for me, and I’m sure plenty of other people here. But I’ve seen it literally cure autoimmune diseases like basically nothing else I’ve ever seen in the alternative health world. The health recovery stories are nothing short of miraculous: from bi-polar to Crohn’s disease. I haven’t seen nearly the same level of success come from Ray Peat followers.

I get it. It’s not going to work for everyone. Some people it’s going to make much worse. It’s potentially extremely dangerous, and there’s some horror stories emerging. But as a “last ditch” health effort it’s basically the most incredible thing I’ve ever seen after a decade of researching health.

I haven't seen a lot of "hate" on carnivore, more like the very valid criticism of the fact that it's very low to no carb (if you're eating freshly killed meat, you might still be getting some glycogen), and the fact that you will be wasting protein via gluconeogensis to get enough glucose every day. And that a lot of people have problems with that diet (even if they take a while to manifest).

Even Peat and others have talked about some of the positive changes that can happen on a Low Carb or Carnivore Diet, especially as compared to the Standard American Diet.

There are also a lot of people here who had bad experiences with various low carb diets, often after initial positive experiences (listen to Haidut on the first youtube livestream with Danny Roddy, for about a year or so, he seemed to be doing great with low carb.... before things got bad).

Carnivore certainly has a lot of marketing behind it, and with Jordan Peterson and Mikayla, celebrity endorsements. I'm sure the successes are highlighted, and the problems swept under the rug.

Ray Peat followers are trying all sorts of different things at different times. And there is no "hype machine" to trumpet the successes. So, it's never going to seem like a fair comparison.

 

[Blossom]

I haven't seen a lot of "hate" on carnivore, more like the very valid criticism of the fact that it's very low to no carb (if you're eating freshly killed meat, you might still be getting some glycogen), and the fact that you will be wasting protein via gluconeogensis to get enough glucose every day. And that a lot of people have problems with that diet (even if they take a while to manifest).

Even Peat and others have talked about some of the positive changes that can happen on a Low Carb or Carnivore Diet, especially as compared to the Standard American Diet.

There are also a lot of people here who had bad experiences with various low carb diets, often after initial positive experiences (listen to Haidut on the first youtube livestream with Danny Roddy, for about a year or so, he seemed to be doing great with low carb.... before things got bad).

Carnivore certainly has a lot of marketing behind it, and with Jordan Peterson and Mikayla, celebrity endorsements. I'm sure the successes are highlighted, and the problems swept under the rug.

Ray Peat followers are trying all sorts of different things at different times. And there is no "hype machine" to trumpet the successes. So, it's never going to seem like a fair comparison.

It does sound like CarnivoreMD has been reading Peat lately.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It does sound like CarnivoreMD has been reading Peat lately.

That's always how it starts, isn't it?

I remember in my paleo/IF days, I was introduced to the idea that high iron was problematic (Thank you, Anthony Colpo and Chris Kresser), and started Googling around and found Peat's article on iron.

Then it's "Well, he seems to know the problems with iron and PUFA, but what's with all the sugar?"

And down the rabbit hole you go from there.............

 

[Vegancrossfit]

Colpo: another completely bald pseudo influencer

Kresser: peak neuroticism combined with uptight anemic looking face

Nutrition is the far west where nobody has a clue about the best way to be perfectly healthy and it’s worse when they haven’t personally turned around some sort accelerated degeneration (like not being totally bald). If they don’t look the part they’re full of it. What’s interesting is the more people go down the diet rabbithole the more they degrade.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Colpo: another completely bald pseudo influencer

Kresser: peak neuroticism combined with uptight anemic looking face

Nutrition is the far west where nobody has a clue about the best way to be perfectly healthy and it’s worse when they haven’t personally turned around some sort accelerated degeneration (like not being totally bald). If they don’t look the part they’re full of it. What’s interesting is the more people go down the diet rabbithole the more they degrade.

These sorts of personal attacks are completely unwarranted. What does it matter if Colpo is bald? I think he even mentions that he shaves his head. And how do you know Colpo is a "pseudo influencer?" He never mentions that on his resume. You are ridiculous.

Should I not listen to E.D. Weinberg discuss the role of iron in aging because he is 93 (maybe closer to 97 now) and looks old? Should I not read the work of Linus Pauling because he died, again, at age 93?

If you haven't read Colpo's book "The Great Cholesterol Con," I would suggest you do. I was written back in 2004, but remains the best ever researched book cholesterol and heart disease I've ever seen. He goes through literally every diet RCT testing the diet/heart hypothesis, every statin trial, and even many (if not all) of the long term observational studies.

This might be shocking, but you don't need hair to cite and discuss a scientific study.

If you really believe the last line you typed, what are you even doing on this forum?

 

[gately]

I haven't seen a lot of "hate" on carnivore, more like the very valid criticism of the fact that it's very low to no carb (if you're eating freshly killed meat, you might still be getting some glycogen), and the fact that you will be wasting protein via gluconeogensis to get enough glucose every day. And that a lot of people have problems with that diet (even if they take a while to manifest).

Even Peat and others have talked about some of the positive changes that can happen on a Low Carb or Carnivore Diet, especially as compared to the Standard American Diet.

There are also a lot of people here who had bad experiences with various low carb diets, often after initial positive experiences (listen to Haidut on the first youtube livestream with Danny Roddy, for about a year or so, he seemed to be doing great with low carb.... before things got bad).

Carnivore certainly has a lot of marketing behind it, and with Jordan Peterson and Mikayla, celebrity endorsements. I'm sure the successes are highlighted, and the problems swept under the rug.

Ray Peat followers are trying all sorts of different things at different times. And there is no "hype machine" to trumpet the successes. So, it's never going to seem like a fair comparison.

The very post you’re quoting from addresses how damaging it can be for some people. If your point was to be semantic about the word “hate” vs “criticism” on an online message board, OK.

EDIT: I had even stated Carnivore had damaged ME (likely gave me a host of food intolerances.)

My entire point was that as a last ditch health recovery effort, I’ve seen Carnivore outright cure diseases that Ray Peat Land has barely touched, and it thus deserves a far less of a dismissive tone around here.

Again, I’m in no way a proponent of Carnivore, but the carnivore diet is dismissed way too easily around here, people take one look at it, assume they know why it works (they don’t, nobody does) and dismiss it completely.

 

[CDT]

Im not convinced of either Peats diet ir a carnivores. Many carnivores seem to do good and my main impression from this forum is that people in here dont do so well. Making sugar consumes ATP is a worthless clue to me without more context. Btw if you cant keep blood sugar up without consuming carbohydrates id say its appropriate to call that an addiction. If your saying high cortisol is needed to stimulate gluconeogenesis what youre sayobg makes some sense but again youre just a guy who said to to me. Id appreciate if you could direct me to any data i could take a look on.

Carnivores do "well" because 90% of them are switching from their Taco Bell / McDonald's meme diets. Just watch people who are carnivores over the years, they dont do well at all. Also, Saladino is a freaking psychiatrist, not a dam nutrition doc.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

The very post you’re quoting from addresses how damaging it can be for some people. If your point was to be semantic about the word “hate” vs “criticism” on an online message board, OK.

EDIT: I had even stated Carnivore had damaged ME (likely gave me a host of food intolerances.)

My entire point was that as a last ditch health recovery effort, I’ve seen Carnivore outright cure diseases that Ray Peat Land has barely touched, and it thus deserves a far less of a dismissive tone around here.

Again, I’m in no way a proponent of Carnivore, but the carnivore diet is dismissed way too easily around here, people take one look at it, assume they know why it works (they don’t, nobody does) and dismiss it completely.

Peter from Hyperlipid talked about this possibility, the system is called oral tolerance or such, continued exposure confers continued tolerance to ingested foods.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I’ve seen Carnivore outright cure diseases that Ray Peat Land has barely touched, and it thus deserves a far less of a dismissive tone around here.

Which disease or diseases did you see the Carnivore diet cure? How was the disease or disease diagnosed, and how was progress measured? How was a cure defined? Do you have the food logs of those subjects? Better yet, were they in a metabolic chamber? Were these subjects verified in scientific papers that you can cite? If it was first hand observation, do you have video or other evidence you can upload?

Details and proof would certainly make some people here take the idea seriously.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

...Soon Paul Saladino will be sipping coffee w/ milk and sugar and painting naked women.

I think he's an honest man. I remember he was talking about the glycine : methionine ratio when no one else in the community cared. They were like "just eat meat and don't worry about science".
So he was a little bit woke from the start.

 

[julcreutz]

I think he's an honest man. I remember he was talking about the glycine : methionine ratio when no one else in the community cared. They were like "just eat meat and don't worry about science".
So he was a little bit woke from the start.

I don't think so. I remember when I first started carnivore, very little videos on YouTube were available on the topic. Then all the people started doing the diet and making videos, Saladino included.

He's been in it all the time for the money. Just look at the businesses he's built up over the time, the cost of his counselations, now his rip-off "Heart and Soil" organ supplements... it's very clear what his intentions are imo.