Template For Those New To Peat's Principles

[Lone Bunman]

This is the first step in correcting dysfunction. Once you've eliminated previous bad habits the training wheels can come off and it will become more intuitive. After learning what works for you, correcting deficiencies and learning to listen to what your body is telling you, then you can "perceive, think, act". Before that many people need a light out of the darkness.

 

[OiBoy]

I have been eating around 25g of fat per meal (tallow, coconut oil, olive oil), very similar to what is outlined in your OP.

As for foods I am eating,

protein: Eggs, ground beef, steak, chicken breast, shrimp

Fat: tallow, olive oil, coconut oil

fruit: grapes, oranges, soursop pulp, cherimoya, persimmons, longans, pineapple)

Juice: Apple juice (highly filtered), pineapple juice, coconut water, white grape juice, cranberry juice diluted with apple or grape juice

Fiber: carrots x4 a day

When I started I was continually dealing with bad bloating regardless of what I ate. I water fasted for 24hrs and did a salt water flush because when I get bloated I get constipated and the gas just stays put in my upper abdomen. After that all I drank was apple juice for another 24 hrs. Then for around 5 days I just ate steak and ground beef cooked in tallow and drank apple juice. This resulted in mild diarrhea, but I was not getting any bloating and at least things where moving. By day 4 the Diarrhea changed to a thick tarry BM, so I added in carrots. This seemed to help and I was back to the mild diarrhea, still with no to very little bloating. At that point I decided to add in some fruit, this is when I started to get a little bloating, now even when I just drank juice. Also the diarrhea continues.

I think that some of that water weight may have been inflamed intestines as I didn’t notice much difference otherwise. As for adding starch I am reluctant but if the fruit continues to not work I may switch it out for starch and see what happen.

When it comes to my stomach dysbiosis (bloating, constipation, acid reflux, food sensitives), I have had a long history of messing with it (around 6 years or so). Done multiple herbal/natural antibiotic courses, used antibiotics like Doxy and Mino cycline, used activated charcoal, carrot salads, probiotics, laxatives etc. Those thing would often lead to better digestion for a month or so then things would slowly move back towards dysbiosis. My period of best digestion happened when I first got on TRT. For around the first 6 months of TRT I felt incredible, including digestion, but after those first 6 or so months everything went back to normal. I stayed on the TRT for around 2 years then quite “cold turkey”. Quitting was actually really easy for me, I had maybe 2 bad weeks then my own production slowly came back. Anyway that was over a year ago now. I guess this is to say I am pretty comfortable with looking into any suggestions you may have. For what it’s worth most of my bloating as of lately is in the upper abdomen, kind of around the liver, gall bladder, duodenum and occurs a couple hours after eating.

If you don’t mind me asking what were the symptoms of your dysbiosis?

 

[OiBoy]

By the way dragon fruit = almost instant diarrhea for me. All I can find is it has lots of soluble fiber.... but could that cause stomach cramps and diarrhea in a matter of an hour? Been like this for a long time. All varieties too red, white and yellow.

 

[Herbie]

@CLASH

Have you read the Peat Whisperer by D Roddy?

Or nutrition for women by R Peat?

Danny’s is a great book, well thought out and set out with photos that Danny wrote but he said he regretted it because it barstardised Rays work and this is more barstardised in that regard and I think if you really want to help people you need to put more thought and time into it and spell check.

Ray doesn’t like the BMR or similar because they don’t account for metabolism of the brain, being the organ with highest metabolic rate.

Ray says pineapple are high in serotonin and has concerns with the seeds in berrys, that sweet potatoes are one of the worst foods for digestion according to him.

I’m not sure if your going for nutritional councelor approach or who you target audience is but I think you should either do a write up based fully on your own anecdotal experiences for people to learn from you and your diet or do a scientific one fact one. Templates have been over done for decades, they are a cookie cutter approach, a one size fits all which never yields a lot of success. Humans may be relatively the same but their background, lifestyles and eating habits across the world and season range dramatically and should be considered and more personal approach taken.

 

[CLASH]

I have been eating around 25g of fat per meal (tallow, coconut oil, olive oil), very similar to what is outlined in your OP.

As for foods I am eating,

protein: Eggs, ground beef, steak, chicken breast, shrimp

Fat: tallow, olive oil, coconut oil

fruit: grapes, oranges, soursop pulp, cherimoya, persimmons, longans, pineapple)

Juice: Apple juice (highly filtered), pineapple juice, coconut water, white grape juice, cranberry juice diluted with apple or grape juice

Fiber: carrots x4 a day

When I started I was continually dealing with bad bloating regardless of what I ate. I water fasted for 24hrs and did a salt water flush because when I get bloated I get constipated and the gas just stays put in my upper abdomen. After that all I drank was apple juice for another 24 hrs. Then for around 5 days I just ate steak and ground beef cooked in tallow and drank apple juice. This resulted in mild diarrhea, but I was not getting any bloating and at least things where moving. By day 4 the Diarrhea changed to a thick tarry BM, so I added in carrots. This seemed to help and I was back to the mild diarrhea, still with no to very little bloating. At that point I decided to add in some fruit, this is when I started to get a little bloating, now even when I just drank juice. Also the diarrhea continues.

I think that some of that water weight may have been inflamed intestines as I didn’t notice much difference otherwise. As for adding starch I am reluctant but if the fruit continues to not work I may switch it out for starch and see what happen.

When it comes to my stomach dysbiosis (bloating, constipation, acid reflux, food sensitives), I have had a long history of messing with it (around 6 years or so). Done multiple herbal/natural antibiotic courses, used antibiotics like Doxy and Mino cycline, used activated charcoal, carrot salads, probiotics, laxatives etc. Those thing would often lead to better digestion for a month or so then things would slowly move back towards dysbiosis. My period of best digestion happened when I first got on TRT. For around the first 6 months of TRT I felt incredible, including digestion, but after those first 6 or so months everything went back to normal. I stayed on the TRT for around 2 years then quite “cold turkey”. Quitting was actually really easy for me, I had maybe 2 bad weeks then my own production slowly came back. Anyway that was over a year ago now. I guess this is to say I am pretty comfortable with looking into any suggestions you may have. For what it’s worth most of my bloating as of lately is in the upper abdomen, kind of around the liver, gall bladder, duodenum and occurs a couple hours after eating.

If you don’t mind me asking what were the symptoms of your dysbiosis?

Perhaps it could be the apple juice man. It has a high amount of fructose in relation to glucose. Apple juice gives me and quite a few people I know diarrhea, even people without a history of gut issues.

My main symptoms were mainly bloating, brain fog, fatigue and mood disturbances. Some things like dairy or wheat would give me constipation but I dont think that was dysbiosis related. I never had unprovoked diarrhea as with SIBO-D. I think my main dysbiosis was in the large intestine.

 

[OiBoy]

Perhaps it could be the apple juice man. It has a high amount of fructose in relation to glucose. Apple juice gives me and quite a few people I know diarrhea, even people without a history of gut issues.

Yeah I thought so to plus it has sorbitol, so I switched to white grape juice but it didn't help. Plus when all I was consuming was apple juice and meat it was fine.

Anyway I'll keep messing with it and see were I get. Leaning towards a round of antibiotics while on this diet and seeing how long the good times last afterwards...

As you maybe able to tell I am not exactly "new to Peats principles", but as many on the this forum can relate to, I haven't permanently conquered my gut issues. I have gained so much in other aspects of my health and wellbeing but this has never gotten better in the long term.

thanks for your help I'll keep you posted.

 

[CLASH]

@CLASH

Have you read the Peat Whisperer by D Roddy?

Or nutrition for women by R Peat?

Danny’s is a great book, well thought out and set out with photos that Danny wrote but he said he regretted it because it barstardised Rays work and this is more barstardised in that regard and I think if you really want to help people you need to put more thought and time into it and spell check.

Ray doesn’t like the BMR or similar because they don’t account for metabolism of the brain, being the organ with highest metabolic rate.

Ray says pineapple are high in serotonin and has concerns with the seeds in berrys, that sweet potatoes are one of the worst foods for digestion according to him.

I’m not sure if your going for nutritional councelor approach or who you target audience is but I think you should either do a write up based fully on your own anecdotal experiences for people to learn from you and your diet or do a scientific one fact one. Templates have been over done for decades, they are a cookie cutter approach, a one size fits all which never yields a lot of success. Humans may be relatively the same but their background, lifestyles and eating habits across the world and season range dramatically and should be considered and more personal approach taken.

I havent read Danny's book, but I have read almost all of Peat's books and most of his articles multiple times.

This isn't a bastardization of Peat's work because I'm not summarizing Peat's work here; I am not a Peat whisperer nor have I claimed to be in this post (I have never claimed anywhere to be a Peat whisperer or an authority on Peat; All of my posts usually contain "in my experience" or something along those lines as a qualifier). I also try to refrain from quoting Peat to make my point; I try to stick to my experiences and studies. I don't see him as my guru or authority, but I do appreciate his work and ideas. I have relied on some of Peat's principles here, particularly the ones that have worked for me. I am also not a health coach, a medical professional or a guru. I am not offering paid health advice. I'm just distilling my experiences in order to provide a baseline template for people to start with and subsequently branch out from in a systematic way, especially new people who have health issues and arent well versed in physiology. I'm doing this to help to avoid the issues that many new people run into on this forum over and over again.

I'll do my best to make sure my grammar and spelling are up to par but keep in mind this is a draft I wrote off the cusp with the idea of getting peoples opinions for refinement down the line. If you would like, when I write the final draft I will send it to you for editing lol.

I never said the BMR is a straight jacket. I said to use it as a baseline and adjust based on how you feel. Its just a starting point. Many people are eating less than their BMR regularly...

Lol Peat says a lot of things. Some people tolerate those foods fine. Many tolerate those foods way better than milk. You start with Peat says this and Peat says that and then end your post with:

"Humans may be relatively the same but their background, lifestyles and eating habits across the world and season range dramatically and should be considered and more personal approach taken."

I think this plan, especially considering the context, is way more flexible and straight forward than trying to piece a plan together based on what "Peat" says. Peat even has a quote with Danny Roddy where he says something along the lines of "trying to base anything off of him is like trying to put a lever on a swamp". Furthermore, the generally assumed Peat diet is significantly more strict than the approach I discussed, which even to begin with is prefaced as a baseline and to experiment from there.

I made my target audience clear: people new to the Peat paradigm. Did you read the post?

Lol I dont think you read the post man, I specifically prefaced this as a baseline from which to experiment, so that the individual can determine what works for them. That is all. The last thing I did was make a one size fits all dietary approach. Please go back and read the full post again man, it seems like you just skimmed the dietary recommendations and then wrote your post.

EDIT: I fixed some grammar and spelling mistakes (I actually did) lol.

 

[CLASH]

Yeah I thought so to plus it has sorbitol, so I switched to white grape juice but it didn't help. Plus when all I was consuming was apple juice and meat it was fine.

Anyway I'll keep messing with it and see were I get. Leaning towards a round of antibiotics while on this diet and seeing how long the good times last afterwards...

As you maybe able to tell I am not exactly "new to Peats principles", but as many on the this forum can relate to, I haven't permanently conquered my gut issues. I have gained so much in other aspects of my health and wellbeing but this has never gotten better in the long term.

thanks for your help I'll keep you posted.

Do you know when your bloating happens? like how many hours after you eat?

I see you tried alot for your gut. I'm assuming you tried oregano oil. I have seen that work for a few people. If you havent given rifaxmin and nystatin a try they may be worth one. Theyre side effects are minimal, especially compared to the other antibiotics. If you PM, i'll send you the pharmacy I bought them from.

what about anti-parasitic meds? I used ivermectin, albendazole and praziquantel and thats what actually provided the lasting benefit for my gut. I used to get rashes and bloating. After I took the anti-parasitics; no more.

Ok man, keep me posted. If you want to bounce idead around I'll listen and tell you what I tried.

 

[OiBoy]

My bloating starts around 2 - 3hrs after eating, sometime juice will trigger it faster like 30 min or so and when it's really bad even water causes bloating and acid reflux.

Things have actually kinda reverted back to constipation and bloating over the last couple of days. I think it was the addition of fruit, as stupid as that seems. It really started to go in the wrong direction as I was adding the carrots. As the feeling of bloating increases so has my weight (water weight) I have even been peeing less and don't feel like drinking anything but an thirst if that makes sense.

I really don't want to eat meat and juice the rest of my life. I am going to try the Rifaxmin and Nystatin(in the mail already but thanks) and I may add Metronidazole as I can't find Neomycin online and that is the combo recommended for SIBO-C which is what I tend towards. I may also add a pro kinetic, I did use low dose naltrexone for this once after an herbal antibiotic course but I wasn't sure if it helped I may go with Prucalopride this time. I know Prucalopride probably isn't Peat approved as it uses gut serotonin but I don't mind taking the chance to see how it goes.

I am also thinking of adding digestive enzymes, HCL and maybe Ox bile into the mix. I think possibly when I was using testosterone (and proviron) it initially increased my stomach acid production because I did get some intense acid reflux during the first month or so.

Anyway the battle continues....

Thanks for your input,

 

[Lone Bunman]

My bloating starts around 2 - 3hrs after eating, sometime juice will trigger it faster like 30 min or so and when it's really bad even water causes bloating and acid reflux.

Things have actually kinda reverted back to constipation and bloating over the last couple of days. I think it was the addition of fruit, as stupid as that seems. It really started to go in the wrong direction as I was adding the carrots. As the feeling of bloating increases so has my weight (water weight) I have even been peeing less and don't feel like drinking anything but an thirst if that makes sense.

I really don't want to eat meat and juice the rest of my life. I am going to try the Rifaxmin and Nystatin(in the mail already but thanks) and I may add Metronidazole as I can't find Neomycin online and that is the combo recommended for SIBO-C which is what I tend towards. I may also add a pro kinetic, I did use low dose naltrexone for this once after an herbal antibiotic course but I wasn't sure if it helped I may go with Prucalopride this time. I know Prucalopride probably isn't Peat approved as it uses gut serotonin but I don't mind taking the chance to see how it goes.

I am also thinking of adding digestive enzymes, HCL and maybe Ox bile into the mix. I think possibly when I was using testosterone (and proviron) it initially increased my stomach acid production because I did get some intense acid reflux during the first month or so.

Anyway the battle continues....

Thanks for your input,

Tried thiamine?

 

[OiBoy]

Yeah, started using allithiamine maybe 4-5 years ago, plus used Energin on and off since it came out...

With that said I have not used high dose thiamine / niacin for 6 months straight, like Charlie is trying these days, but I am watching his experiment closely!

I also have not tried a real long term "refeed" like has been being discussed on the forum again lately. But I am desperate and may give it a try in a few months if I haven't made progress. I do have a long, long history of calorie restriction, mostly due to $$ from around age 13 - 25 and then off and on for "health" from age 25 - current (36). I have messed with "refeeds" got fat all that, but pussed out after a couple months, never following through for a year+ like it should be done. Being fat is really psychologically hard for me.

 

[Amazoniac]

- A Word Of Caution Against Excessive Protein Intake
⬑ [35] Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men

⬑ [7] Anabolic signaling deficits underlie amino acid resistance of wasting, aging muscle

"Do our results suggest possible maneuvers the elderly could make to maximize their muscle maintenance? They certainly provide no evidence of an increased protein requirement in the elderly (47), since it proved impossible to elevate their rates of MPS to young values simply by giving more EAA, that is, 20–40 g (being equivalent to 40–80 g of protein, or a beef steak of ~8–16 oz). However, many elderly people eat relatively small amounts of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese containing high-biological value protein, partly for economic reasons but also because they are easily satiated (and occasionally anorectic [48]). It would make sense, therefore, for elderly people to eat protein to “effectively” (i.e., sufficiently) raise their plasma EAA concentration to trigger the maximal response after a single meal. Such a maximal anabolic response could be achieved with 10 g of EAA equivalent to 4 oz of meat, fish, eggs, or milk. Given the likely 20–30% decrement in the gut absorption of dietary protein in the elderly (49), a peak muscle anabolic response in muscle could probably be obtained by eating 6 oz of meat, fish, eggs, or milk at a single sitting. To overcome the problem of satiety and bulk, foods with high protein/energy ratios and vitamin and mineral contents (e.g., lean beef or lamb) should be a major part of the diet of the elderly, especially since their energy requirements fall with age (50)."

Spoiler

 

[Bluemachine]

Do you know when your bloating happens? like how many hours after you eat?

I see you tried alot for your gut. I'm assuming you tried oregano oil. I have seen that work for a few people. If you havent given rifaxmin and nystatin a try they may be worth one. Theyre side effects are minimal, especially compared to the other antibiotics. If you PM, i'll send you the pharmacy I bought them from.

what about anti-parasitic meds? I used ivermectin, albendazole and praziquantel and thats what actually provided the lasting benefit for my gut. I used to get rashes and bloating. After I took the anti-parasitics; no more.

Ok man, keep me posted. If you want to bounce idead around I'll listen and tell you what I tried.

do you have any experience with herbal antiparasitics or know how they compare?

 

[ursidae]

Great template. I made a lot of progress when I ate like this