Template For Those New To Peat's Principles

[CLASH]

Over and over I have seen people come to the forum attempt to implement Ray Peat's principles in the formation of a diet and eventually develop many issues, especially weight gain. With this in mind I'm posting a template for beginners to start with in implementing Ray Peat's principles.

Before I get to the template, something must be kept in mind. The basis of Ray's work centers around William Blake's idea:

"The true method of knowledge is experiment"

and also Ray's iconic phrase:

"Percieve. Think. Act."

With these concepts the basic idea is to first be aware of yourself and continue to do so as the basis of your experiences going forward. From there the point is to find/ come across/ think about/ principles and knowledge, assess them from a rational/ logical/ esperiential point of view, and then test them out through experimentation. Once you experiment, the goal is to continually be aware of yourself as you experiment, so that you can gain experience/ knowledge/ wisdom from the experiment from which to build upon and move forward. The process is continual and circular, never ending, but the basis remains the same, awareness of yourself and your experiences as the basis. This awareness is not neccesarily what you think but what you experience, the sensations, mental states, energy level, bowel movements, libido, emotional reactivity etc. that you experience. Be aware of all of it, don't discount any possible experience with logic, give it time to play out and just observe. Formulate logical/ rational hypothesis later, but keep in mind they are just hypothesis and theories, not neccesarily reality yet. Rationality/ logic can often be abstractions of the experience, so pure observation is a neccesary first and continual step.

With the above said it is necessary to have a baseline with which to begin your experimentation, the goal of this post is to provide you with that baseline. This guidelines here are rough guidelines based on my experience and research to give new followers of peat's principles a place to anchor themselves from which to experiment with future nuanced aspects. The goal is for the baseline dietary template to be as safe as possible from an allergen, irritant, anti-nutrient and additive perspective, while providing solid nutrition. The guide will show you how to set up a diet including calories, macros, micros, food choices, and meal structure. Again this is purely a baseline, modifications are expected to come as you experiment in a relatively controlled fashion. Too many people don't understand how to properly experiment and they wind up hurting themselves, especially on this forum. Then they wind up rationalizing the things they have done to themselves, rather than learning the lesson. The goal is to avoid this.

So, this is a baseline dietary structure, from here a singular new component of the diet can be played depending on what you fancy, but it should be a SINGULAR component. Also, the experiment should go for a reasonable period of time, such as a week or two AT MOST. Many people across numerous dietary forums try implementing something, get a negative effect and rationalize the issue away, only to then claim "healing effects" and increase what they are doing even more. With kept this starts as going low carb, and progresses to zero carb once issues ensue. With vegetarians it starts as avoidance of all animal foods except eggs and milk, maybe seafood and then becomes veganism. With peat diets it starts as increasing dairy and sugar considerably to going to an all milk, sugar and OJ diet. The results, time and time again with these experiments is the person ******* themselves up, rationalizing for a while and then turning around and switching to a new paradigm to repeat the process over, like going from vegan to carnivore, or low carb to peat. Or the person hurts themself, recognizes it, accepts it and now has to undue the damage. We can avoid both these situations, and still find out what works for us with a consistent, slow, conscious, aware, observant, rational, approach.

*Before beginning, downloading the app cronometer is recommended to track calories, macros and micros. It is recommended to make either a 3 day or one week template of what you plan to eat in the app using the guidelines below. The template created in cronometer is a rough guideline, it can be edited as you go and adjust, no need to create new days, just go back to the days you already made and update them. The template is helpful to give a ballpark of whats needed to meet your calories, macronutrients, micronutrients, portion sizes and how much food to buy when you go to the store. The goal is not to micromanage in cronometer, the goal is to use the app to aid in making your life easier. If you find yourself micromanaging your PUFA intake or making sure your phosphorous is in perfect ratio with your calcium, your doing it wrong. The app is for convenience, not migraine induction, not anal retentiveness and definitely not perfectionism.

With that said here is the guidelines and principles:

1) Calories: To determine your caloric requirements use the Katch-Mccardle metabolic calculator with the activity multipliers:

*formula:
basal metabolic rate= 370 + (21.6 x (lean body mass in Kg))

lean body mass= (bodyweight in kilograms) - ((body fat %) x bodyweight in kilograms)


*activity multipliers:

1.2x BMR= inactive (little to no movement or exercise)

1.4x BMR= low activity (exercise 1-3x per week, light daily activity)

1.6x BMR= moderate activity (exercise 3-5x per week, moderate daily activity)

1.8x BMR= high activity (exercise more than 5x per week, heavy labor job)

2.0x BMR= intense activity (daily exercise and a heavy labor job)




2) Macros:

*Protein: (about 15-20% calories) .6-.8g/lb. Protein should be on the higher end if you are active, or you are older. Protein sources should be from ruminant meat (beef, bison, lamb, goat), specific seafood (shrimp, scallops, cod, sole, oysters, mussels, clams), pasture raised eggs, very lean 99% chicken/ turkey/ fowl (These are very lean because they are high in polyunsaturated fats if not).

As you can see Dairy is not on the list above. The reason why is because it is often an issue for many people due to allergy, the opiate effect, and the hormones. Certain people just never do well with dairy. Thus, I don't think people should avoid it, only avoid it to start. Like the starch below, I would start with the basic template and then experiment with adding these things in.

*Carbs: (about 40-60% calories) carbs should be at least 2x the amount of protein. Carbs can be more, these depend on you. The safest and best sources of carbs are fruits and 100% fruit juice. These fruits and juices should be low in fodmaps to start and have close to a 1:1 ratio of glucose to fructose as many people don't process fodmaps well and don't handle fructose well in excess of glucose, both from a digestive standpoint. The safe juices include orange, pineapple, pomegranate, grape, tangerine, coconut water, cacao juice, cranberry juice, blueberry juice. Good fruits are cherimoya, soursop, grapes, oranges, lemons, blueberries, raspberries, raisins, papayas, jackfruit, acerola, dragon fruit, pineapples, passion fruit, guava, strawberries, kiwis, peaches, nectarines, plums, pomegranates.

Possibly irritating fruits include: well cooked ripe bananas, well cooked ripe apples/ pears, watermelon, mangos, cherries, sapotes.

As you can see starches aren't present in the above to start. Starches can be eaten but I would recommend leaving them out to start especially if you know you have a gut issue. That being said the safest starches are tubers such as potatoes, yams, and sweet potatoes, and white rice. Boiling starches is a necessity as baked starches can persorb across the intestinal epithelial and cause issues down the line. The skins of tubers should also be removed. I would recommend placing starches as one of the first things that are experimented with. After starches I would then move to dairy.

*Fats: (about 25%-40% calories) Fats are harder to pin down for how much to eat. Many things effect need for fats in the diet and how much someone tolerates. I personally find 20-25g of fat in a meal to be ideal for me. Too little and I'm hungry fast, i get brain fog overtime from being to low fat consistently and my libido, muscle tone and other hormonal factors take a negative hit. Too much and I'm full for way to long, my appetite goes away and I get indigestion. Sources for fats are ruminant meats and tallows, chocolate, cocoa butter, butter, and coconut oil. A word on coconut oil and butter. Butter can be very high in hormones and can lead to hairloss, acne, dandruff and other issues if large quantities are eaten over an extended period of time in susceptible people. Coconut oil can irritate the intestine in susceptible people and cause diarrhea and other issues. Tolerance to different fats is something to experiment with. The goal is to stick with mostly saturated and monounsaturated fat sources while avoiding PUFA. A good guideline to shoot for with fats is to keep polyunsaturated fats (PUFA) to about 4g/2000kcal and in as close to a 10:1 ratio of saturated: Polyunsaturated fats as you can (This can be easily seen in cronometer).

*Fiber: At least 15g a day. Fiber is important for the bowel and helpful for keeping regular. However, the correct fiber is necessary. The wrong fibers cause bacterial issues, the correct types help keep the bowel in good shape. Good fiber sources are of course carrots, whole fruits, well cooked mushrooms, and boiled bamboo shoots. I personally stick with raw carrots, whole fruits and sometimes well cooked mushrooms. I often exceed 20-25g per day due to the fruit. I have never tried boiled bamboo shoots.


3) Meal timing:

Many people come to peat and thing snacking all day is ideal, only later to develop GI issues, and weight gain. I think sticking to 3-4 meals a day is best from a logistics standpoint, and a digestive standpoint. There is a complex in the GI tract called the migrating motor complex (MMC) which is a series of rhythmic muscular contractions that push the contents of the intestine along down to the colon and out of the body. Every time you eat the cycle is interrupted and begins a new. The cycle runs for about 3 hours, so I think its best to leave around 3 hours between meals. That being said if you are hungry I would go ahead and eat. Again this is just a starting guideline. Also, keep in mind too much fat or too little fat can effect the length of digestion. So using that to your advantage can help out, like increasing fat content of a meal before bed to stretch out that meal over night.

4) Macro nutrient division across the day:

Some people like to eat different macros nutrients at different times, like carbs in the morning and meat/ fat at night. I think to start, dividing the total amount of protein you are going to eat between the number of meals you have is ideal and doing the same for fats and carbs. This is just to establish a baseline. It can obviously be experimented with from there, for example increasing carbs after a workout to take advantage of the training effect, while lowering fat before a workout to allow the meal to digest quicker so you don't wind up burping endlessly while you workout. Also, as perviously mentioned increasing fat at night can stretch a meal throughout the night, keeping blood sugar stable for longer.

5) Macro division in a meal:

This is my personal experience but I find eating fruit/ juice/ starches first, then waiting 15 minutes and then eating the meat and fat last optimizes digestion as the fruit/ juice and starches often digest rapidly and the meat and fat often slow down digestion. By eating the fruit/ juice/ and starches first they can be digested quickly and not bogged down by the meat and fat.

6) Example:

*4 meals a day template:

**meal 1: 8AM
-3 eggs
-10g tallow
-16oz orange juice
-4oz of jackfruit
-1 large raw carrot

**meal 2: 12PM
-4 oz beef
-20g tallow
-16oz pineapple juice
-4oz of cherimoya pulp
-1 large raw yellow carrot

**meal 3: 4PM
-4 oz beef
-20g tallow
-16oz pineapple juice
-8oz of grapes

**meal 4: 8PM
-4 oz shrimp
-25g tallow
-16oz grape juice
-4oz of dragon fruit
-40z cherries

In this example the only food that needs to be cooked is the protein. I usually cook 4 meals worth of shrimp, and 4 meals worth of beef at one time and keep it in the fridge ready to go. I warm them up with the desired amount of fat when I'm ready to eat. Thus, the prep time is minimal overall. Adding starches will increase prep time but not too much because they can be cooked in bulk using a rice cooker or a pressure cooker.

@Blossom
@charlie
@Giraffe

I was thinking of making this a sticky at the top of the forum or a something that we could give to all beginners to start to try to avoid some of the issues. The post is a draft, I have to add more to it especially with some input from others, but I think we need something like this so we don't have people coming to the forum and hurting themselves. Let me know what you guys think. I want to add some references and pictures from cronometer for people as well.

 

[Hans]

Good job on this. Just one thing with eating carbs before protein, this is also highly individual and some, like me, do better with protein first and carbs second, especially starches. Fruit doesn't "interfere" as much.

 

[CLASH]

Good job on this. Just one thing with eating carbs before protein, this is also highly individual and some, like me, do better with protein first and carbs second, especially starches. Fruit doesn't "interfere" as much.

That could very likely be the case. To be honest I'm not so versed with starch, I personally avoid it. So I really only know about the fruit aspect for which I think it digest better before, especially if someone plans to drink alot of juice (say like 16oz with a meal), as the fluid tends to effect digestion in large volumes. I find the fruit digest fully in like 15 minutes for me, I'm sure it could be different for others, i'll amend the post.

Anything else to add? I want to take all the suggestions here, make the edits and then create a new post for the sticky as I cant edit the OP on this thread now.

I was going to add the differences in digestion of MCT and LCT, as well as Starch vs. sugar.

 

[Inaut]

Excellent post @CLASH

Thanks

 

[Kartoffel]

I don't get it. You start with "perceive, think, act", and then tell people how to calculate their nutritional needs, macro nutrient ratios, meal frequency, etc. Hence, you're basically encouraging them to inactivate their own guiding system. I think the best "system" is just to choose the best, least irritating foods you can find, and eat how much you want whenever you want. In my opinion, you've already lost once you start calculating macros and timing your meal frequency.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

Thanks for this great summary job @CLASH
Your article is precise and concise You give quality information that is easy to apply Simply the downside, the high cost of this type of diet can be... very expensive to buy good quality fruit (organic etc.) and quality animal products are very expensive too At least here in France..

 

[CLASH]

I don't get it. You start with "perceive, think, act", and then tell people how to calculate their nutritional needs, macro nutrient ratios, meal frequency, etc. Hence, you're basically encouraging them to inactivate their own guiding system. I think the best "system" is just to choose the best, least irritating foods you can find, and eat how much you want whenever you want. In my opinion, you've already lost once you start calculating macros and timing your meal frequency.

"Percieve. Think. Act." isnt antithetical to using metrics to quantify things, especially provided that the context of the post was to provide a baseline from which to branch off of. Units of measurement can be very helpful in providing some structure when starting something new, after which once a system is implemented leniency can be incorporated.

I disagree with your opinion. I would say your opinion is like trying to teach someone to fight by telling them to just go out there and fight however they feel. The basis I provide here, especially given the context is akin to teaching someone especially someone relatively novice, muay thai as a base and telling them once they have a base to try other systems that they think will help thier ability to fight, while they actually fight throughout building reference experiences as they go. I think the guidance you mentioned is relatively meaningless for most people, especially those new to nutrition, and possibly dangerous given our current food systems. I think there are a few examples on the forum that are somewhat exemplary of this.

 

[Kartoffel]

"Percieve. Think. Act." isnt antithetical to using metrics to quantify things, especially provided that the context of the post was to provide a baseline from which to branch off of. Units of measurement can be very helpful in providing some structure when starting something new, after which once a system is implemented leniency can be incorporated.

I disagree with your opinion. I would say your opinion is like trying to teach someone to fight by telling them to just go out there and fight however they feel. The basis I provide here, especially given the context is akin to teaching someone especially someone relatively novice, muay thai as a base and telling them once they have a base to try other systems that they think will help thier ability to fight, while they actually fight throughout building reference experiences as they go. I think the guidance you mentioned is relatively meaningless for most people, especially those new to nutrition, and possibly dangerous given our current food systems. I think there are a few examples on the forum that are somewhat exemplary of this.

I think you mean well, but I disagree with your view on guidance and what it can achieve. Your fight analogy perfectly catches what's wrong with your view, in my opinion. It might be right that you can learn more about fighting from a teacher and certain schools than from simple intuition. However, eating is not the same, as you possess more knowledge about nutrition in relation to physiological needs than you can ever hope to learn. I believe our bodies are very clever when it comes to getting optimal nutrition, and maintaining a healthy equilibrium, and I believe thinking about macros&calories too much can do a tremendous amount of harm, because it will cause you to ignore your natural instincts.
Peat once said something like this in an interview, and mentioned that many health conscious people eat according to a schedule rather than their physiological needs. When I once asked him, years ago, how many calories he eats, and what he his macro ratio is, he said he didn't know and never counted them. I think "theoretical eating" is one of the most harmful activities that many health conscious people acquire. The most energetic and healthy people I know don't know anything about nutrition and probably never spent a single serious thought on it. This isn't to say that just eating whatever you like is necessarily healthy, but this has more to do with our sick food supply than the individual intuition. I always feel best when I think least about what I eat and just choose freely from foods I know to be relatively safe.
Some days I eat a huge amount of sugar, and very little protein, some days I eat two huge portions of meat and some milk shakes, and sometimes I will barely eat anything for one or two days. I feel much better this way than when I eat, lets say a certain amount of protein that I think I need theoretically.

I think the main reason that intuitive eating is the safest way to go is our microbiome. It changes constantly according to what you eat, and what your overall physiological situation is. Letting go of your theoretical approach will allow you to listen to your gut, and keep it relatively happy and energized. Once you start eating too much, or the wrong things at the wrong time because you believe you're cleverer that you body, things can go seriously wrong. If I understand him correctly, it's one of the reasons why Peat constantly rejects the idea of protocols, and emphasizes that people should just eat to increase their metabolic rate.

 

[Tenacity]

I don't get it. You start with "perceive, think, act", and then tell people how to calculate their nutritional needs, macro nutrient ratios, meal frequency, etc. Hence, you're basically encouraging them to inactivate their own guiding system. I think the best "system" is just to choose the best, least irritating foods you can find, and eat how much you want whenever you want. In my opinion, you've already lost once you start calculating macros and timing your meal frequency.

Be right back, I want a McDonald's.

 

[CLASH]

@Kartoffel
I agree with you on the importance of intuitive eating. However, I think for many people, coming from a sick state and considering the current state of our food industries some structure is needed initially. Even Peat recommends an amount of food to eat i.e. "2 quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice" or "150g of protein" etc.


you say:
"I believe thinking about calories & macros too much can do a tremendous amount of harm"

I agree with you 100%. Especially on the qualifier of too much. With that said the goal here is to establish a baseline using generalities based on research with easily applicable quantifiable steps. The goal isnt to get married to the ideas of calories or macros or micros but to provide a basis for which people can find out what works for them so an intuitive style can develop afterwards. Also, in the process it can help people overcome undereating, some sicknesses, malnutrition and find the foods that work for them.

For example I have a one week template in cronometer but I look at it maybe once a month just to see the nutrients or PUFA content sometimes, say, if I have a theory or something is bothering me or to look at individual foods. I dont follow it to a T, I eat what I want within the list of foods that I have found dont bother me and I eat as much as I want. I have adapted the template more to what I have found works for me, than myself to the template. With this said you have a very good point, people can often wind up adapting themselves to the template rather than the template to themselves and that can be a very big issue. We have also seen that here.

Overall, I agree with your point of view, I just think some structure is neccesary to start to allow the intuition to be succesful in the future. I dont think the template should be a straight jacket, just a doorway into developing your own intuition once you have some reference experiences under your belt.

I think a rough map of the territory, with the continuous disclaimer that the map isnt the territory is helpful to start.

 

[Amazoniac]

Protein should be on the higher end if [] you are older.

CHOQUE, I've been wondering about this. In theory it sounds logical to compensate, but I guess that in practice the opposite usually occurs: protein restriction to reduce problems from the portion that's not utilized.

 

[Kartoffel]

CHOQUE, I've been wondering about this. In theory it sounds logical to compensate, but I guess that in practice the opposite usually occurs: protein restriction to reduce problems from the portion that's not utilized.

Protein seems to be a coin with two side for old people. On one hand, protein is positively correlated with disease and mortality in young people, but the correlation is the opposite for old people. So, there seems to be a clear advantage that probably derives from prevention of frailty and sarcopenia. On the other hand, you have the usual potential problems that come from too much protein. I think the best strategy would be to keep carbohydrate and fat intake high enough to spare protein, and just enough protein to maintain lean tissue mass.

@Kartoffel
I agree with you on the importance of intuitive eating. However, I think for many people, coming from a sick state and considering the current state of our food industries some structure is needed initially. Even Peat recommends an amount of food to eat i.e. "2 quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice" or "150g of protein" etc.


you say:
"I believe thinking about calories & macros too much can do a tremendous amount of harm"

I agree with you 100%. Especially on the qualifier of too much. With that said the goal here is to establish a baseline using generalities based on research with easily applicable quantifiable steps. The goal isnt to get married to the ideas of calories or macros or micros but to provide a basis for which people can find out what works for them so an intuitive style can develop afterwards. Also, in the process it can help people overcome undereating, some sicknesses, malnutrition and find the foods that work for them.

For example I have a one week template in cronometer but I look at it maybe once a month just to see the nutrients or PUFA content sometimes, say, if I have a theory or something is bothering me or to look at individual foods. I dont follow it to a T, I eat what I want within the list of foods that I have found dont bother me and I eat as much as I want. I have adapted the template more to what I have found works for me, than myself to the template. With this said you have a very good point, people can often wind up adapting themselves to the template rather than the template to themselves and that can be a very big issue. We have also seen that here.

Overall, I agree with your point of view, I just think some structure is neccesary to start to allow the intuition to be succesful in the future. I dont think the template should be a straight jacket, just a doorway into developing your own intuition once you have some reference experiences under your belt.

I think a rough map of the territory, with the continuous disclaimer that the map isnt the territory is helpful to start.

I think I can agree with that!

 

[Blossom]

Over and over I have seen people come to the forum attempt to implement Ray Peat's principles in the formation of a diet and eventually develop many issues, especially weight gain. With this in mind I'm posting a template for beginners to start with in implementing Ray Peat's principles.

Before I get to the template, something must be kept in mind. The basis of Ray's work centers around William Blake's idea:

"The true method of knowledge is experiment"

and also Ray's iconic phrase:

"Percieve. Think. Act."

With these concepts the basic idea is to first be aware of yourself and continue to do so as the basis of your experiences going forward. From there the point is to find/ come across/ think about/ principles and knowledge, assess them from a rational/ logical/ esperiential point of view, and then test them out through experimentation. Once you experiment, the goal is to continually be aware of yourself as you experiment, so that you can gain experience/ knowledge/ wisdom from the experiment from which to build upon and move forward. The process is continual and circular, never ending, but the basis remains the same, awareness of yourself and your experiences as the basis. This awareness is not neccesarily what you think but what you experience, the sensations, mental states, energy level, bowel movements, libido, emotional reactivity etc. that you experience. Be aware of all of it, don't discount any possible experience with logic, give it time to play out and just observe. Formulate logical/ rational hypothesis later, but keep in mind they are just hypothesis and theories, not neccesarily reality yet. Rationality/ logic can often be abstractions of the experience, so pure observation is a neccesary first and continual step.

With the above said it is necessary to have a baseline with which to begin your experimentation, the goal of this post is to provide you with that baseline. This guidelines here are rough guidelines based on my experience and research to give new followers of peat's principles a place to anchor themselves from which to experiment with future nuanced aspects. The goal is for the baseline dietary template to be as safe as possible from an allergen, irritant, anti-nutrient and additive perspective, while providing solid nutrition. The guide will show you how to set up a diet including calories, macros, micros, food choices, and meal structure. Again this is purely a baseline, modifications are expected to come as you experiment in a relatively controlled fashion. Too many people don't understand how to properly experiment and they wind up hurting themselves, especially on this forum. Then they wind up rationalizing the things they have done to themselves, rather than learning the lesson. The goal is to avoid this.

So, this is a baseline dietary structure, from here a singular new component of the diet can be played depending on what you fancy, but it should be a SINGULAR component. Also, the experiment should go for a reasonable period of time, such as a week or two AT MOST. Many people across numerous dietary forums try implementing something, get a negative effect and rationalize the issue away, only to then claim "healing effects" and increase what they are doing even more. With kept this starts as going low carb, and progresses to zero carb once issues ensue. With vegetarians it starts as avoidance of all animal foods except eggs and milk, maybe seafood and then becomes veganism. With peat diets it starts as increasing dairy and sugar considerably to going to an all milk, sugar and OJ diet. The results, time and time again with these experiments is the person ******* themselves up, rationalizing for a while and then turning around and switching to a new paradigm to repeat the process over, like going from vegan to carnivore, or low carb to peat. Or the person hurts themself, recognizes it, accepts it and now has to undue the damage. We can avoid both these situations, and still find out what works for us with a consistent, slow, conscious, aware, observant, rational, approach.

*Before beginning, downloading the app cronometer is recommended to track calories, macros and micros. It is recommended to make either a 3 day or one week template of what you plan to eat in the app using the guidelines below. The template created in cronometer is a rough guideline, it can be edited as you go and adjust, no need to create new days, just go back to the days you already made and update them. The template is helpful to give a ballpark of whats needed to meet your calories, macronutrients, micronutrients, portion sizes and how much food to buy when you go to the store. The goal is not to micromanage in cronometer, the goal is to use the app to aid in making your life easier. If you find yourself micromanaging your PUFA intake or making sure your phosphorous is in perfect ratio with your calcium, your doing it wrong. The app is for convenience, not migraine induction, not anal retentiveness and definitely not perfectionism.

With that said here is the guidelines and principles:

1) Calories: To determine your caloric requirements use the Katch-Mccardle metabolic calculator with the activity multipliers:

*formula:
basal metabolic rate= 370 + (21.6 x (lean body mass in Kg))

lean body mass= (bodyweight in kilograms) - ((body fat %) x bodyweight in kilograms)


*activity multipliers:

1.2x BMR= inactive (little to no movement or exercise)

1.4x BMR= low activity (exercise 1-3x per week, light daily activity)

1.6x BMR= moderate activity (exercise 3-5x per week, moderate daily activity)

1.8x BMR= high activity (exercise more than 5x per week, heavy labor job)

2.0x BMR= intense activity (daily exercise and a heavy labor job)




2) Macros:

*Protein: (about 15-20% calories) .6-.8g/lb. Protein should be on the higher end if you are active, or you are older. Protein sources should be from ruminant meat (beef, bison, lamb, goat), specific seafood (shrimp, scallops, cod, sole, oysters, mussels, clams), pasture raised eggs, very lean 99% chicken/ turkey/ fowl (These are very lean because they are high in polyunsaturated fats if not).

As you can see Dairy is not on the list above. The reason why is because it is often an issue for many people due to allergy, the opiate effect, and the hormones. Certain people just never do well with dairy. Thus, I don't think people should avoid it, only avoid it to start. Like the starch below, I would start with the basic template and then experiment with adding these things in.

*Carbs: (about 40-60% calories) carbs should be at least 2x the amount of protein. Carbs can be more, these depend on you. The safest and best sources of carbs are fruits and 100% fruit juice. These fruits and juices should be low in fodmaps to start and have close to a 1:1 ratio of glucose to fructose as many people don't process fodmaps well and don't handle fructose well in excess of glucose, both from a digestive standpoint. The safe juices include orange, pineapple, pomegranate, grape, tangerine, coconut water, cacao juice, cranberry juice, blueberry juice. Good fruits are cherimoya, soursop, grapes, oranges, lemons, blueberries, raspberries, raisins, papayas, jackfruit, acerola, dragon fruit, pineapples, passion fruit, guava, strawberries, kiwis, peaches, nectarines, plums, pomegranates.

Possibly irritating fruits include: well cooked ripe bananas, well cooked ripe apples/ pears, watermelon, mangos, cherries, sapotes.

As you can see starches aren't present in the above to start. Starches can be eaten but I would recommend leaving them out to start especially if you know you have a gut issue. That being said the safest starches are tubers such as potatoes, yams, and sweet potatoes, and white rice. Boiling starches is a necessity as baked starches can persorb across the intestinal epithelial and cause issues down the line. The skins of tubers should also be removed. I would recommend placing starches as one of the first things that are experimented with. After starches I would then move to dairy.

*Fats: (about 25%-40% calories) Fats are harder to pin down for how much to eat. Many things effect need for fats in the diet and how much someone tolerates. I personally find 20-25g of fat in a meal to be ideal for me. Too little and I'm hungry fast, i get brain fog overtime from being to low fat consistently and my libido, muscle tone and other hormonal factors take a negative hit. Too much and I'm full for way to long, my appetite goes away and I get indigestion. Sources for fats are ruminant meats and tallows, chocolate, cocoa butter, butter, and coconut oil. A word on coconut oil and butter. Butter can be very high in hormones and can lead to hairloss, acne, dandruff and other issues if large quantities are eaten over an extended period of time in susceptible people. Coconut oil can irritate the intestine in susceptible people and cause diarrhea and other issues. Tolerance to different fats is something to experiment with. The goal is to stick with mostly saturated and monounsaturated fat sources while avoiding PUFA. A good guideline to shoot for with fats is to keep polyunsaturated fats (PUFA) to about 4g/2000kcal and in as close to a 10:1 ratio of saturated: Polyunsaturated fats as you can (This can be easily seen in cronometer).

*Fiber: At least 15g a day. Fiber is important for the bowel and helpful for keeping regular. However, the correct fiber is necessary. The wrong fibers cause bacterial issues, the correct types help keep the bowel in good shape. Good fiber sources are of course carrots, whole fruits, well cooked mushrooms, and boiled bamboo shoots. I personally stick with raw carrots, whole fruits and sometimes well cooked mushrooms. I often exceed 20-25g per day due to the fruit. I have never tried boiled bamboo shoots.


3) Meal timing:

Many people come to peat and thing snacking all day is ideal, only later to develop GI issues, and weight gain. I think sticking to 3-4 meals a day is best from a logistics standpoint, and a digestive standpoint. There is a complex in the GI tract called the migrating motor complex (MMC) which is a series of rhythmic muscular contractions that push the contents of the intestine along down to the colon and out of the body. Every time you eat the cycle is interrupted and begins a new. The cycle runs for about 3 hours, so I think its best to leave around 3 hours between meals. That being said if you are hungry I would go ahead and eat. Again this is just a starting guideline. Also, keep in mind too much fat or too little fat can effect the length of digestion. So using that to your advantage can help out, like increasing fat content of a meal before bed to stretch out that meal over night.

4) Macro nutrient division across the day:

Some people like to eat different macros nutrients at different times, like carbs in the morning and meat/ fat at night. I think to start, dividing the total amount of protein you are going to eat between the number of meals you have is ideal and doing the same for fats and carbs. This is just to establish a baseline. It can obviously be experimented with from there, for example increasing carbs after a workout to take advantage of the training effect, while lowering fat before a workout to allow the meal to digest quicker so you don't wind up burping endlessly while you workout. Also, as perviously mentioned increasing fat at night can stretch a meal throughout the night, keeping blood sugar stable for longer.

5) Macro division in a meal:

This is my personal experience but I find eating fruit/ juice/ starches first, then waiting 15 minutes and then eating the meat and fat last optimizes digestion as the fruit/ juice and starches often digest rapidly and the meat and fat often slow down digestion. By eating the fruit/ juice/ and starches first they can be digested quickly and not bogged down by the meat and fat.

6) Example:

*4 meals a day template:

**meal 1: 8AM
-3 eggs
-10g tallow
-16oz orange juice
-4oz of jackfruit
-1 large raw carrot

**meal 2: 12PM
-4 oz beef
-20g tallow
-16oz pineapple juice
-4oz of cherimoya pulp
-1 large raw yellow carrot

**meal 3: 4PM
-4 oz beef
-20g tallow
-16oz pineapple juice
-8oz of grapes

**meal 4: 8PM
-4 oz shrimp
-25g tallow
-16oz grape juice
-4oz of dragon fruit
-40z cherries

In this example the only food that needs to be cooked is the protein. I usually cook 4 meals worth of shrimp, and 4 meals worth of beef at one time and keep it in the fridge ready to go. I warm them up with the desired amount of fat when I'm ready to eat. Thus, the prep time is minimal overall. Adding starches will increase prep time but not too much because they can be cooked in bulk using a rice cooker or a pressure cooker.

@Blossom
@charlie
@Giraffe

I was thinking of making this a sticky at the top of the forum or a something that we could give to all beginners to start to try to avoid some of the issues. The post is a draft, I have to add more to it especially with some input from others, but I think we need something like this so we don't have people coming to the forum and hurting themselves. Let me know what you guys think. I want to add some references and pictures from cronometer for people as well.

I like it! Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together.

 

[danishispsychic]

great post but really it almost gave me an anxiety attack after reading . i say, ....really study Rays work and try to stay away from Pufa and eat whatever you want.

 

[Amazoniac]

Protein seems to be a coin with two side for old people. On one hand, protein is positively correlated with disease and mortality in young people, but the correlation is the opposite for old people. So, there seems to be a clear advantage that probably derives from prevention of frailty and sarcopenia. On the other hand, you have the usual potential problems that come from too much protein. I think the best strategy would be to keep carbohydrate and fat intake high enough to spare protein, and just enough protein to maintain lean tissue mass.

The trend as we get older is to consume less food, increasing protein intake would be going against it, ending up with a relatively high-protein diet. It's preferable to manage it indirectly, Gerson wrote something in that regard:

The beneficial influence of large amounts of carbohydrates in the diet has been recognized. Besides the protective action of glycogen upon the liver cell, further benefit is derived from carbohydrate by virtue of its protein-sparing action. The protective value of carbohydrate appears to be twice that of protein when sufficient protein is already present in the diet to provide plenty and necessary amino acids for reparative purposes. An isocaloric amount of carbohydrate cannot be substituted for proteins without deterioration of the clinical and biochemical state.

Sometimes articles on this topic discuss strategies that don't involve upping the consumption (meal composition and timing, physical activity, etc).

- Protein and healthy aging
- Robert R. Wolfe | ResearchGate

 

[CLASH]

Protein seems to be a coin with two side for old people. On one hand, protein is positively correlated with disease and mortality in young people, but the correlation is the opposite for old people. So, there seems to be a clear advantage that probably derives from prevention of frailty and sarcopenia. On the other hand, you have the usual potential problems that come from too much protein. I think the best strategy would be to keep carbohydrate and fat intake high enough to spare protein, and just enough protein to maintain lean tissue mass.

I think I can agree with that!

The trend as we get older is to consume less food, increasing protein intake would be going against it, ending up with a relatively high-protein diet. It's preferable to manage it indirectly, Gerson wrote something in that regard:

​

Sometimes articles on this topic discuss strategies that don't involve upping the consumption (meal composition and timing, physical activity, etc).

- Protein and healthy aging
- Robert R. Wolfe | ResearchGate

I think you both may be right about protein. I chose my protein numbers for this post based on the research I read and around the general amounts I eat from experience. However, I do notice that while saturated fats and carbs raise my temperature pretty reliably, protein can actually lower it about an hour after eating, especially if a large amount is eaten. This would be around the time when the amino acids would be hitting my bloodstream. Since there is no bloating and signs/ symptoms of a small intestine bacterial overgrowth (not just for protein but for many other foods as well), I think we can rule out bacterial products of protein degredation in the small intestine as the main culprit. So, for one we have the amino acid situation. These symptoms, for me, are most pronounced with muscle meats.

Next as to @Kartoffel's point, besides the brief coldness after eating protein, I notice that some of the undigested protein that hits the colon has a constipating effect. Because I eat so much fruit and carrots this isnt an issue, but if I lower fruit intake this can become an issue. Its not just the constipation either, it effects the scent of sweat, causes sweating, and generally doesnt feel good. I think this is due to the microbial products formed from the putrefaction of undigested meat in the colon.

With both of those said, I dont feel right if I dont get enough protein either, so I think in all situations, for both younger and older theres a goldilocks zone for protein intake. We have some rough numbers based on the research, but thats about it. 0.6g/lb was the specific number from the research, a safety margin was added of I think one standard deviation they said to 0.8g/lb, so thats why I had the range at 0.6-0.8g/lb, but perhaps 0.6g/lb as a baseline and then adjust from there would be more reasonable.

Many people give protein a free pass in the fitness culture and some of the health circles, I think this is becuase its not good at creating fat mass. In reality the dangers of excess protein, are probably a bit more damaging than the excess carbs from decent sources atleast, and excess saturated fats. With the excess protein theres the ammonia issue, the cortisol rise, the replacing of carbs and fats with protein, the microbiome issue and the amino acid issue. So overall a duel edged sword as @Kartoffel has mentioned, even for young people I think.

EDIT: I think its also important to clarify that certain proteins have different effects. For example the differences betwewn collagen, dairy proteins and muscle meats and thier different physiologic effects/ other components coming with them. The most constipating muscle meat for me is steak, whereas shrimp and fish are less so. I think the underlying cause may be related to the iron in conjunction with the protein, reaching the colon. Also, there is always the issue of casein peptides in sensitive individuals, or the prebiotic effect of gelatin irritating people who have gut issues/ dysbiosis.

 

[teds]

I felt hungry just looking at that meal plan. Is it just me? I love fruit but it doesn’t fill me up. I’d love to just eat fruit, meat and fat. Sounds like something in utopia. Also, there doesn’t seem to be any source of calcium in this approach. I know you mentioned that people should experiment with adding dairy down the track.. calcium intake seems to be a fairly important part of improving the thyroid and metabolism in general.. what’s the calcium alternative here? Egg shells I believe.. I’ve heard Ray mention someone should have cooked greens too but that was at the end of a long list of other calcium alternatives.

is it mainly men who can tolerate the meat, fruit/fruit juice, fat diet? I certainly can’t have that much fruit liquid. I’d be chewing on my arm at work.

 

[OiBoy]

Hey Clash,

I have been following Ray peat for quite awhile but while I have made many improvements over the years I have continued to have issues with bloating. I have seen your posts over last couple months explaining your success with a higher fat approach, so a couple weeks ago I started to give it a go.

I dropped around 15lbs of water weight in a week and my high blood pressure has gotten a lot closer to normal, so pretty good!

I am however still having a little bloating and diarrhea. I think I may be having issues digesting the extra fat and I am curious if it's something you experienced. Also while I am able to drink much more than a couple weeks ago 16oz of juice at once just doesn't work for me. I am going to experiment with drinking between meals, do you know if that would interrupt the MMC?

It could also just be a die off of stomach bacteria and maybe a rebalancing of the gut biome. I remember you saying on a thread that you used Nystatin and Rifaxamin at one point, was that part of your switch over to the higher fat diet?

I am essentially follow the diet posted above based on you older posts which descried the same thing.

Thanks for going out of your way to post about your success with this diet, I hope it ends up solving my bloating issues.

 

[CLASH]

Hey Clash,

I have been following Ray peat for quite awhile but while I have made many improvements over the years I have continued to have issues with bloating. I have seen your posts over last couple months explaining your success with a higher fat approach, so a couple weeks ago I started to give it a go.

I dropped around 15lbs of water weight in a week and my high blood pressure has gotten a lot closer to normal, so pretty good!

I am however still having a little bloating and diarrhea. I think I may be having issues digesting the extra fat and I am curious if it's something you experienced. Also while I am able to drink much more than a couple weeks ago 16oz of juice at once just doesn't work for me. I am going to experiment with drinking between meals, do you know if that would interrupt the MMC?

It could also just be a die off of stomach bacteria and maybe a rebalancing of the gut biome. I remember you saying on a thread that you used Nystatin and Rifaxamin at one point, was that part of your switch over to the higher fat diet?

I am essentially follow the diet posted above based on you older posts which descried the same thing.

Thanks for going out of your way to post about your success with this diet, I hope it ends up solving my bloating issues.

Hey man,
Glad my posts have helped out. I had the same experience with dropping the water weight fast. I have a few questions before I can be of any help for you:

1) How much fat have you been eating in a meal?

2) What foods have you been eating regularly?

3) As far as the fluid, 16oz at a meal can be alot, you can try to add solid fruits, or even something like banana chips fried in coconut oil to add the calories without the fluid. You could also add some sweet potatoes or yams if they dont bother you. But guessing by the bloating and diarrhea you might still have some gut stuff going on, and starches can sometimes make that worse.

4) I used quite a few things to get my gut back in order, with those things you mentioned included in the list. Clearing my small intestine was actually the easy part. The hard part was fixing the colon which I had an issue with for quite some time. I can tell you the things that worked for me but keep in mind some of them were dangerous, so they arent prescriptions or medical advice. I find for alot of people that ask me about my experience with gut issues, that thier issues are usually something in thier diet rather than a terrible dysbiosis.

 

[CLASH]

I felt hungry just looking at that meal plan. Is it just me? I love fruit but it doesn’t fill me up. I’d love to just eat fruit, meat and fat. Sounds like something in utopia. Also, there doesn’t seem to be any source of calcium in this approach. I know you mentioned that people should experiment with adding dairy down the track.. calcium intake seems to be a fairly important part of improving the thyroid and metabolism in general.. what’s the calcium alternative here? Egg shells I believe.. I’ve heard Ray mention someone should have cooked greens too but that was at the end of a long list of other calcium alternatives.

is it mainly men who can tolerate the meat, fruit/fruit juice, fat diet? I certainly can’t have that much fruit liquid. I’d be chewing on my arm at work.

I didnt get a notification for your response lol.

I've found if you eat enough fat the fullness thing isnt an issue. Many people seem, atleast to me, to go no or low starch but still stay low fat. This doesnt work well in my experience. If starch isnt there, there needs to be an increase in fat. This is also why I recommend people try adding in a starch as the first option. I know some people do quite well with starches. If they dont have any gut issues it may not even make sense to take the starch out, perhaps just limit them to banana, yams, sweet potatoes and potatoes to start.

The Calcium issue is one I have yet to solve. All calcium supps I have tried have given me some issues so all I can tell people is to try them and see what works for them if dairy isnt working. I dont personally have an answer for that... Lol there go's my guru status

I think women can tolerate diet as well, as long as provisions for some quality junk food are provided for especially during thier period, you know like chocolate chip cookies, potato chips, banana chips, chocolate and ice cream.

Again the template is a starting point to provide a baseline. Its not a perpetual lifestyle. It's just to get people to a point where they can experiment and see whats effecting them in what way so we can avoid people becoming obese on the oj, sugar, milk and ice cream diet with the weekly liver, that everyone interprets as the peat diet. Lets get the least allergenic, least problematic, most nutrient dense foods to start. Lets get people eating enough, eating consistently. Then we'll add the relatively "more problematic" foods in one at a time and see how it goes. For someone with a gut issue or significant health problems, they may need to address some things outside of diet that will allow them to try more things without issues but in the meantime atleadt they can eat again without major symptoms. For someone without a gut issues or severe health problems, maybe just avoiding cow dairy if theyre sensitive may be enough to put them back on the map. For some people dairy may thier savoir while starch gives them issues. Its easy to find these things out with a baseline, but can be real difficult to find them out with a scatter shot, random approach.