Blood Glucose - High Carb/Low Fat

[Katelove]

Please read the articles about metformin. Doctors love it.

Iodine can block thyroid function. The amount you need is minuscule; I think Ray Peat said something about maybe 1mg/week might be safe? Peat is not a fan of supplementing with iodine. T3 has iodine in it already.


View: https://youtu.be/nMYSCcp_6pI?t=168


I rely on an older endocrinologist to help keep my thyroid hormone levels optimized. I get blood tests every 6 months. I got lucky and managed to find an 84 year old endo who actually knows what he's doing and has over 50 years of experience. I take natural desiccated thyroid, NP Thyroid, made by Acella. I do not attempt to just "wing it" because it is too important to get it right. Because I have both hypothyroidism and a thiamine issue and these two things inter-relate, I need to be tested regularly. High dosing thiamine hcl caused my T3 level to go way high and I had to cut back on my thyroid med in order to get back into a highish but normal range. Too much thyroid med can block thiamine function.

I use the pure niacinamide powder available from bulksupplements.com. I find that it works better for me to be able to fine tune the amount and take it more frequently. 500mg of niacinamide makes me loopy.

Testing for thiamine deficiency is tricky. Here's an article about it: Thiamine Deficiency Testing: Understanding the Labs- Hormones Matter

You might find this video helpful:

View: https://youtu.be/m3DopqTz1Q4

You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you again. I am working with a doctor that put me on T3. I have felt much better on it. I would consider backing off the Iodine. I just ordered the thiamine. I have a small scale that weighs mg. I can empty out my 500 mg capsules to create smaller doses. Is it bad to take the 500 mg? I will watch the video you sent about thiamine testing.
Interesting what they said about metformin preventing exercised induced insulin sensitivity.

 

[mostlylurking]

You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you again. I am working with a doctor that put me on T3. I have felt much better on it. I would consider backing off the Iodine. I just ordered the thiamine. I have a small scale that weighs mg. I can empty out my 500 mg capsules to create smaller doses. Is it bad to take the 500 mg? I will watch the video you sent about thiamine testing.
Interesting what they said about metformin preventing exercised induced insulin sensitivity.

Are you getting thyroid blood work regularly? Free T4, free T3, reverse T3, TSH?
To me, Metformin sounds like a physician's dream come true. I don't mean that in a positive way.

 

[Dolomite]

Wouldn’t the supplement calcium d glucarate accomplish all the same things without consuming 5 servings of beans every day? Seems an immoderate amount to consume long term.

It may not be the best thing but so far I have felt much better than at any time since menopause. I am no longer constipated and my mood is stable. I have not used calcium d glucarate. I don't know that it is something Ray Peat mentions. My goal with following Ray Peat and drinking milk, etc. was to boost my metabolism so as not to be constipated all the time. It didn't work but so far this approach has. I do not agree with Peat about trying to sterilize the gut. I think it is better to make the gut bacteria work for me than to try to remove them.

 

[mostlylurking]

Mostly Lurking,
Thank you!! Love all the links. I have been working on my thyroid for a couple years and am on T3 and iodine and selenium and have great body temps for about a year. The thiamine link is something I have not explored. I will get to learning about it pronto. I have niacinamide but it is 500 mg capsules.
I am working with a doctor...am wondering if I should cut the metformin. Interesting.

Here's a less technical video for your consideration:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI


and an article about thiamine by Dr. Chandler Marrs and Dr. Derrick Lonsdale:

Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency

Thiamine or vitamin B1 is an essential, water-soluble vitamin required for mitochondrial energetics—the production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). It is a critical and rate-limiting cofactor to multiple enzymes involved in this process, including those at the entry points and at critical...

www.mdpi.com

Abstract​

Thiamine or vitamin B1 is an essential, water-soluble vitamin required for mitochondrial energetics—the production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). It is a critical and rate-limiting cofactor to multiple enzymes involved in this process, including those at the entry points and at critical junctures for the glucose, fatty acid, and amino acid pathways. It has a very short half-life, limited storage capacity, and is susceptible to degradation and depletion by a number of products that epitomize modern life, including environmental and pharmaceutical chemicals. The RDA for thiamine is 1.1–1.2 mg for adult females and males, respectively. With an average diet, even a poor one, it is not difficult to meet that daily requirement, and yet, measurable thiamine deficiency has been observed across multiple patient populations with incidence rates ranging from 20% to over 90% depending upon the study. This suggests that the RDA requirement may be insufficient to meet the demands of modern living. Inasmuch as thiamine deficiency syndromes pose great risk of chronic morbidity, and if left untreated, mortality, a more comprehensive understanding thiamine chemistry, relative to energy production, modern living, and disease, may prove useful.

 

[Nicole W.]

It may not be the best thing but so far I have felt much better than at any time since menopause. I am no longer constipated and my mood is stable. I have not used calcium d glucarate. I don't know that it is something Ray Peat mentions. My goal with following Ray Peat and drinking milk, etc. was to boost my metabolism so as not to be constipated all the time. It didn't work but so far this approach has. I do not agree with Peat about trying to sterilize the gut. I think it is better to make the gut bacteria work for me than to try to remove them.

I get it. You finally found something that works and you want to stick with it for as long as it works. But we know that beans have proven detriment when in consumed in high amounts or frequency. Look at any impoverished culture that relies on beans as a staple and you can see the effects. So why would you want to recreate that situation when you have access to alternatives?

When you are eating a lot of any food you are displacing calories and nutrients from other foods that are of important service to your body. I think there is a real risk of developing deficiencies if you are consuming that many beans because they suppress the appetite really well. Eating a lot of beans+ suppressed appetite means a less nutritious diet.

Now that you have an idea of how beans benefit you, why not seek a safer food/supplement alternative that can provide the same type of effects/benefits without the same detriments that beans have? I suggested CDG because it conjugates all the used hormones and toxins and helps prepare them for elimination, but there are probably other substances with similar effects.

Btw, I gave Karen Hurd’s protocol a try for a couple weeks and stopped because I felt like I had poisoned myself lol. I have always had beans in my diet on an occasional basis, but that many beans, in that frequency gave me autoimmune reaction. My whole body felt inflamed and ached. It was not fun, lol.

 

[Dolomite]

I get it. You finally found something that works and you want to stick with it for as long as it works. But we know that beans have proven detriment when in consumed in high amounts or frequency. Look at any impoverished culture that relies on beans as a staple and you can see the effects. So why would you want to recreate that situation when you have access to alternatives?

When you are eating a lot of any food you are displacing calories and nutrients from other foods that are of important service to your body. I think there is a real risk of developing deficiencies if you are consuming that many beans because they suppress the appetite really well. Eating a lot of beans+ suppressed appetite means a less nutritious diet.

Now that you have an idea of how beans benefit you, why not seek a safer food/supplement alternative that can provide the same type of effects/benefits without the same detriments that beans have? I suggested CDG because it conjugates all the used hormones and toxins and helps prepare them for elimination, but there are probably other substances with similar effects.

Btw, I gave Karen Hurd’s protocol a try for a couple weeks and stopped because I felt like I had poisoned myself lol. I have always had beans in my diet on an occasional basis, but that many beans, in that frequency gave me autoimmune reaction. My whole body felt inflamed and ached. It was not fun, lol.

Thank you for your reply and information. I quit eating any beans when I tried to drink milk and eat more Peat recommended foods. I never ate that many before so it wasn't a big loss. I suppose the beans can be replacing other foods. But I admit to being a picky eater and the beans are actually more nutritious, I think, than some of my other choices. The carrot salad helped me get rid of SIBO but never helped with constipation or estrogen removal. I will look into the CDG.

I know what you mean about an autoimmune reaction. Gluten does that to me.

I am well past menopause but I have been able to tell when a "cycle" is occurring every month. And I would often get a hemorrhoid flare up when my estrogen would be rising. And the addition of beans has ended that.

 

[frannybananny]

No, I don't follow all her recommendations. I avoid all PUFAs. I eat 5 1/2 cup servings of beans spaced throughout the day. I quit drinking caffeine beverages. I still eat some chocolate and some fruit. I eat a low fat diet. The idea is to get bile that has toxins (like estrogen) from the liver out of the body. The bean's insoluble fiber supposedly binds the bile and makes this possible. Just quitting caffeine will reduce stress. Ray Peat says that adding sugar and milk to coffee will counter the stress hormones that coffee raises but there are studies that show that cortisol is elevated even when sugar is consumed at the same time.

Be aware that beans contain lectins and that much beans per day would definitely increase lectin consumption and cortisol.

 

[Dolomite]

Be aware that beans contain lectins and that much beans per day would definitely increase lectin consumption and cortisol.

Thank you, I am aware of the lectins. I don’t think I will eat as many per day eventually, but right now everything seems good.

 

[Dolomite]

@Katelove There is a question for Ray about high blood sugar in this podcast. I didn't listen all the way to the question so I don't know the answer.

July 18 2022 - One Radio Network

 

[yerrag]

Thank you so much for your response. I hear what you are saying. I did not do well with low carb though. I had massive fatigue and couldn't keep it up, keto that is. Is Keto the kind of low carb you are suggesting? Or do you think a less extreme type of low carb would be beneficial? Is it the ketosis you think is beneficial?

Good question.

As with any health forum, this forum is a salad buffet. Choose wisely. There is good advice and bad advice. As you may have already realized, doctors are just like people. They are not 100 percent right.

Ray Peat's principles are well-researched and free from commercial and institutional bias, but he cannot provide you with specific advice not knowing your context. He says know your individual context. So be careful of people pushing their context on you. What works for them may not work for you. What substance one took to correct a deficiency may drive you to an excess if you weren't deficient.

Healing is like cooking. You know the ingredients but that doesn't make you a great chef. There is a process involved. You're not going to put all ingredient together at the same time. Unless you're just making a shake.

Your issue is not difficult if you can separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Katelove]

Good question.

As with any health forum, this forum is a salad buffet. Choose wisely. There is good advice and bad advice. As you may have already realized, doctors are just like people. They are not 100 percent right.

Ray Peat's principles are well-researched and free from commercial and institutional bias, but he cannot provide you with specific advice not knowing your context. He says know your individual context. So be careful of people pushing their context on you. What works for them may not work for you. What substance one took to correct a deficiency may drive you to an excess if you weren't deficient.

Healing is like cooking. You know the ingredients but that doesn't make you a great chef. There is a process involved. You're not going to put all ingredient together at the same time. Unless you're just making a shake.

Your issue is not difficult if you can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Thank you for this grounded response. Yes, I feel I am in the process of experimenting. The high BG freaked me out...so, here I am, putting myself out there to learn more. I liked that you said it isn't difficult. :)

 

[yerrag]

Thank you for this grounded response. Yes, I feel I am in the process of experimenting. The high BG freaked me out...so, here I am, putting myself out there to learn more. I liked that you said it isn't difficult. :)

It certainly is not rocket science. But in practice, it is harder. This science is full of "trust the science," and that's why you can't trust it. And that's what makes it damn difficult.

But peel the layers off carefully and leave the real science intact and you'll see how easy it is.

The one tool I find has to be discarded is the HbA1c. The tool almost all doctors and experts use just because it is the tool promoted by pharma-**** kissing medical associations.

Instead, go rogue and do your own 5hr oral glucose tolerance test. Then you have more data and a nice graph to help you pinpoint where your problem areas are that you need to address in fixing your blood sugar issues.

That is the old tech discarded by our dedicated medical associations. The new tech is instant but as useless as it is instant. Or if you prefer new tech, you can go with devices that do CGM- continuous glucose monitoring. I'm old school and I prefer less bells and whistles though.

 

[Katelove]

It certainly is not rocket science. But in practice, it is harder. This science is full of "trust the science," and that's why you can't trust it. And that's what makes it damn difficult.

But peel the layers off carefully and leave the real science intact and you'll see how easy it is.

The one tool I find has to be discarded is the HbA1c. The tool almost all doctors and experts use just because it is the tool promoted by pharma-**** kissing medical associations.

Instead, go rogue and do your own 5hr oral glucose tolerance test. Then you have more data and a nice graph to help you pinpoint where your problem areas are that you need to address in fixing your blood sugar issues.

That is the old tech discarded by our dedicated medical associations. The new tech is instant but as useless as it is instant. Or if you prefer new tech, you can go with devices that do CGM- continuous glucose monitoring. I'm old school and I prefer less bells and whistles though.

I think you are smarter than me with this. I don't know if I understand how to peel off the layers here...I am curious, how do you do your own 5 hour GTT?

 

[yerrag]

I think you are smarter than me with this. I don't know if I understand how to peel off the layers here...I am curious, how do you do your own 5 hour GTT?

There is no hard and fast way to peel the layers. But one thing for sure is to do your research. To not depend on Google too much for it. And to use forums like Ray Peat to get better answers. And to do what you're doing now. By using people with some experience of success to guide you. So you have some kind of heads up on the gotchas. The last thing you want is some doctor armed with fake science or some experts who's learning while earning at your expense.

Just as a check, what substance or substances do you understand to be directly involved in making sugar absorbed in your tissues? I'll share with you later an article that you must read to arm you with knowledge most doctors are ignorant about.

As for the OGTT, I'm pretty bad keeping track of my posts, but you can do a search of it in my previous posts.

But you may have better luck doing that after the server upgrade coming up this Friday evening.

 

[Katelove]

There is no hard and fast way to peel the layers. But one thing for sure is to do your research. To not depend on Google too much for it. And to use forums like Ray Peat to get better answers. And to do what you're doing now. By using people with some experience of success to guide you. So you have some kind of heads up on the gotchas. The last thing you want is some doctor armed with fake science or some experts who's learning while earning at your expense.

Just as a check, what substance or substances do you understand to be directly involved in making sugar absorbed in your tissues? I'll share with you later an article that you must read to arm you with knowledge most doctors are ignorant about.

As for the OGTT, I'm pretty bad keeping track of my posts, but you can do a search of it in my previous posts.

But you may have better luck doing that after the server upgrade coming up this Friday evening.

Your question about what substance do I understand to directly involved in making sugar absorbed in my tissues? I am thinking you are talking about insulin ushering sugar into the cell? My understanding is that fat interferes with insulin, due to the Randle Cycle, and too much FFA is the issue, rather than too much sugar. I eat a low fat diet for this reason.

 

[yerrag]

Your question about what substance do I understand to directly involved in making sugar absorbed in my tissues? I am thinking you are talking about insulin ushering sugar into the cell? My understanding is that fat interferes with insulin, due to the Randle Cycle, and too much FFA is the issue, rather than too much sugar. I eat a low fat diet for this reason.

Insulin is a far second.

It's potassium.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Wearing a CGM is a revelation. Can’t recommend it enough. I would go low fat high starch. It can take a few months but it does work.

 

[Katelove]

Wearing a CGM is a revelation. Can’t recommend it enough. I would go low fat high starch. It can take a few months but it does work.

Thank you.

 

[PeskyPeater]

I have been doing a high carb/low fat diet to address my diabetes. I was testing at a 170 fasting blood glucose for a while and then I added sugar and fruit for about a month. I didn't test during this time. When I tested again I was at a 500 post prandial. My fasting was 330. I have given up the sugary things and am now back to a 230 fasting. It is not going lower than that for over a week. Any suggestions on how to proceed? I have 100 lbs to lose. During that month I lost 10 lbs quite quickly for me. I felt good as well. The high BG scared me off.
I have been pretty sedentary due to my hours at work, sitting at a desk. I just changed my job and will now have more time to walk/hike.
I take metformin, some blood pressure meds, berberine, Vit D, iodine, progestene, cortinon+, Dr. Christopher's Kidney Formula.
I am wondering if the addition of the sugar and fruit contributed to increasing my metabolism, which increased lipolysis, which increased the fatty acids in my blood, which contributed to more insulin resistance...or, considering the weight loss, has it increased my insulin sensitivity? Do I keep going? My instinct is to slow down the sugar and focus on the more complex carbs.
Thank you.

You want to stay with the fruit sugar, not complex carbs because the fructose lowers the insulin response of the glucose and has higher potency of releasing energy as glycogen than glucose does, so fructose increase thermogenisis, body temperature and supports a higher metabolism that is needed against the condition of obesity. When you take in enough fruit sugars you inhibit the release of tissue free fatty acids.

Metformin can help shift away from fat burning to glucose utilisation via the randle cycle, but eventually it will poison the mitochondria.
Berberine is like metformin it activates glycolysis and releases lactate. But instead you want to support oxidative metabolism of the mitochondria said Dr. Peat.

“Glycolysis is very inefficient for producing usable energy compared to the respiratory metabolism of the mitochondria, and when lactate is carried to the liver, its conversion to glucose adds to the energy drain on the organism.” -Ray Peat, PhD Comparison: Oxidative Metabolism v. Glycolytic Metabolism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Am J Clin Nutr 1993 Nov;58(5 Suppl):766S-770S. Fructose and dietary thermogenesis. Tappy L, Jequier E. “Fructose ingestion induces a greater thermogenesis than does glucose. This can be explained by the hydrolysis of 3.5-4.5 mol ATP/mol fructose stored as glycogen, vs 2.5 mol ATP/mol glucose stored. Therefore the large thermogenesis of fructose corresponds essentially to an increase in obligatory thermogenesis. Obese individuals and obese patients with non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus commonly have a decrease in glucose-induced thermogenesis. These individuals in contrast display a normal thermogenesis after ingestion of fructose. This may be explained by the fact that the initial hepatic fructose metabolism is independent of insulin.”

Drugs 1999;58 Suppl 1:31-9; discussion 75-82. The antihyperglycaemic effect of metformin: therapeutic and cellular mechanisms. Wiernsperger NF, Bailey CJ “Other effects involved in the blood glucose-lowering effect of metformin include an insulin-independent suppression of fatty acid oxidation and a reduction in hypertriglyceridaemia. These effects reduce the energy supply for gluconeogenesis and serve to balance the glucose-fatty acid (Randle) cycle.” Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ly_of_AMP-Activated_Protein_Kinase_Activation

edit

If diabetes means that cells can’t absorb or metabolize glucose, then any cellular function that requires glucose will be impaired, despite the presence of glucose in the blood. It is the intracellular absence of glucose which is problematic, rather than its extracellular excess.”

“The competition between fatty acids and glucose, which has been called the “Randle cycle” for about 50 years, can be applied to the treatment of diabetes and other degenerative/stress problems by adjusting the diet, or by using supplements such as niacinamide and aspirin, which improve glucose oxidation by lowering the free fatty acids in the serum.” The Randle Cycle (Glucose-Fatty Acid Cycle) – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[Sven]

I when it comes to weight Im T1D and Ive found it can fluctuate a lot based on BG levels and diet. More so than for healthy people. Its not unthinkable that going from very low to high carb could add 10 pounds of water- and glycogen weight for a diabetic in my experience.