BEING PUSHED TOWARDS HYSTERECTOMY.... NOT KEEN AFTER READING ABOUT THE DARK side

[Genuine.2me]

About 4 years ago I heard Ray answering a question from an 80(?) YO woman who was asking about her ovarian cyst. The doctors naturally wanted to cut it out. Ray just said that enough progesterone would allow it to break down and be reabsorbed.

I had a 30cm cyst on one ovary and a 6cm cyst on the other. They were removed and reconstruction surgery was done on my ovaries. All my health issues leading up to my diagnosis pointed to estrogen dominance. I had so many menstrual/high estrogenic issues after the surgery.

NuStrength podcasts with Kitty Blomfield have some pretty informative episodes on how high estrogen and low progesterone will end up causing cysts.

He has also mentioned that removing the thyroids of cows caused them to development polycystic ovaries which disappeared at they were given a thyroid supplement.

Remember that the body needs vitamin A to convert cholesterol to hormones like progesterone.

 

[Elderflower j58]

I had my scan last night, it was a CT scan I put up a fight against the contrast telling him last time I had a scan I reacted badly vomiting and quite weak( never had a scan before)
He said I likely reacted to the gadolinium
Contrast... the dye used in this scan was iodine and was to my benefit to see everything.
I am not sure at all if this is true but I had to go ahead anyway because most people are saying in the situation of a cystt they do not know anything till they remove it as in benign or malignant, it's just such a worry.
CA125 raised a little bit more 41 now was 35

 

[Elderflower j58]

@Peatful said

After her periods ceased and her pain increased and bowel was obstructed: they found a contained cancerous cyst the size of a large cantaloupe

Am I correct to assume this contained cancerous cyst was found at the point of surgery or can this be seen by CT scan or any other scan beforehand.??

 

[Peatful]

@Peatful said


Am I correct to assume this contained cancerous cyst was found at the point of surgery or can this be seen by CT scan or any other scan beforehand.??

Correct.

The pathology report was indeed after the surgery.

Drawing a tissue sample is dangerous imo before hand because you are physically entering into a sealed cyst or tumor. You dont want to disrupt that barrier.

 

[yerrag]

I had my scan last night, it was a CT scan I put up a fight against the contrast telling him last time I had a scan I reacted badly vomiting and quite weak( never had a scan before)
He said I likely reacted to the gadolinium
Contrast... the dye used in this scan was iodine and was to my benefit to see everything.
I am not sure at all if this is true but I had to go ahead anyway because most people are saying in the situation of a cystt they do not know anything till they remove it as in benign or malignant, it's just such a worry.
CA125 raised a little bit more 41 now was 35

I hope and pray it turns out well for you. Once a decision is made, do what you can to mitigate potential issues.

But I hope you don't mind if I just rant a little. What gets me is why have you still go through the scan when all they're gonna say is you're not gonna see much from it except by way of removing your tissues or organs? They had to put radiation and dyes in you, and what is the point of it?

 

[Elderflower j58]

@yerrag That is exactly the conversation I had with my daughter last night,
if I am looking at this correctly after some research it seems when it is a cyst.. Possibly hopefully it may be encapsulated and they want to remove it intact and undamaged.
I think the scans give some information about size and type of cyst what it's attached to.. But like you say no indication of cancer until pathology, I'm hoping the iodine contrast was the least damaging but then there's the radiation to think about.

 

[Blossom]

@Elderflower j58, I’m praying you make the best decision for yourself and everything goes well.

 

[Elderflower j58]

@Blossom
Thanks blossom, can't seem to catch a break with my health the last 2 years

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag That is exactly the conversation I had with my daughter last night,
if I am looking at this correctly after some research it seems when it is a cyst.. Possibly hopefully it may be encapsulated and they want to remove it intact and undamaged.
I think the scans give some information about size and type of cyst what it's attached to.. But like you say no indication of cancer until pathology, I'm hoping the iodine contrast was the least damaging but then there's the radiation to think about.

It makes sense to have the scan then as you had said if the purpose is only to have the assist the surgeon remove the cyst. I use red light to minimize the effects of radiation when I get a dental scan. It may also help you to have red light dosing.

You're doing this with a clear mindset and disposition. My prayers for a good resolution and healing.

 

[Elderflower j58]

@yerrag

Thanks for your good wishes and for all your input much appreciated

 

[Elderflower j58]

Has anybody in the UK got any progest e I can buy ... or know any retailer where I can receive it pretty quickly

 

[Elderflower j58]

@Bluebell
I answered your message Bluebell but I don't see my reply??

 

[Happycat]

Has anybody in the UK got any progest e I can buy ... or know any retailer where I can receive it pretty quickly

I can send you a bottle, its sealed and bought from Kenogen directly. I am in uk.

 

[Elderflower j58]

Ok I think I've nearly come to a decision regarding the hysterectomy.
Because from my understanding of the research the scans I have had are not going to reveal any cancer... and that evidence only comes along with the patholog/ histology.
So obviously I'm going to to have the cyst removed and ask them in writing not to touch anything else even though I know I'm going to get hard push back.
I'm aware I could be very unlucky making this decision but a few things in my favour I think are

1) this cyst has been growing for well over a year, or possibly longer even according to some research... and surely if it was cancerous I would have been in a worse state of health
2) it might be completely benign or hidden cancer in the encapsulation of the cyst which may mean it's had less chance of mastesising obviously not sure about any of this hoping
3) I don't think I'm prepared to have my health in the toilet ....
and a big empty space in my body for a lot of things to fall down and cause me numerous problems down the line
4) I'm going to put a protocol together with all the best information I can glean from my own research and hopefully people on this forum.

I'm sure you can all imagine the pressure I have been under from family members to just listen to what the doctors say as they know best.
I hope I can stay strong and keep to my almost made decision

 

[Birdie]

My daughter relayed back to me some of the points made with the gynaecologist as she recorded the conversation.
1) she said it could be in my favour the fact that I've had this cyst growing for over a year
2) She told me my uterus and ovaries were useless and have been since my menopause.
3) she said I would need a full hysterectomy uterus, ovaries,
neck of the womb
4) she said during my surgery if she did not do the hysterectomy there could be abnormal cells or traces of cancer and if she did not do this operation it would be negligence on her part.


So am I to assume these scans I'm having tomorrow will reveal cancer if it is there??

I will be having a face-to-face appointment with this doctor on Friday.

I imagine this is where she will push me for the full hysterectomy.



I forgot to mention the last thing she said was women have no oestrogen or progesterone after menopause??


I am very grateful for all the replies and feed back from everyone who contributed... I can't find the emoji button

This doesn't sound like a doctor who will do what you ask. Sounds like she has firmly decided what will be done.

 

[Elderflower j58]

@Birdie

Yes looks like I'm going to have a battle on my hands this Friday at my face-to-face appointment with her before the surgery.
I'm assuming she will have to take my wishes into consideration, it can't be her way or the Highway.
Did you by any chance check out my link regarding the dark side of hysterectomys
Pretty scary information for the women it does not go well for and there's a lot of them.

 

[Birdie]

@Birdie

Yes looks like I'm going to have a battle on my hands this Friday at my face-to-face appointment with her before the surgery.
I'm assuming she will have to take my wishes into consideration, it can't be her way or the Highway.
Did you by any chance check out my link regarding the dark side of hysterectomys
Pretty scary information for the women it does not go well for and there's a lot of them.

I did look at your link but am aware of these things too. That your doctor said in effect that your uterus etc are useless tells where she is coming from. It sounds like she will follow the guidelines and consider your wishes less important if they are different.

 

[Elderflower j58]

My email to Dr Peat and his answer.

Dear Dr Peat
I hope you can advise me I have a very large ovarian cyst measuring 26 cm which I am having removed surgically on the 29th of December.
My problem is it's bad enough having to have the surgery but they are trying to force me into a full hysterectomy which I do not want.
I understand because I am 64 there may be a chance of cancer but I am willing to take my chances and keep hold of my organs.Their reasoning for the full hysterectomy is that is more or less the protocol for women of my age... and my uterus and ovaries are pretty much useless which I know is not true.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from my research I have found out that this cyst has been growing for over a year possibly longer and would I not be in a worse state of health if it was cancer?
They say it is that complex cyst.


My TSH is 4.7 which I know makes me hypothyroid but because I have a long-standing heart condition I was never prescribed any thyroid medication and I was a bit scared to do it myself because of all the scaremongering around the heart and the thyroid.

Any guidance or advice would be gratefully received Dr Peat.



Dr Peats answer


High TSH in itself is deeply involved as a causal factor in heart and circulatory disease, and in ovarian malfunctions including cysts. What kind of heart problem was it? Have they measured various relevant hormones and vitamin D? Did they describe the composition of the cyst? A cancer of that size would be likely to have major toxic effects on your physiology, including weight loss and high serum lactate and cortisol. With such a large cyst, removing the rest of that ovary would seem reasonable, but not removal of the other ovary and uterus. Surgery is tolerated much better when thyroid function is normal.



Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand. 1997 May;76(5):478-83.
Estradiol, gonadotropins, and tumor markers in ovarian cyst fluid
T Reimer, B Gerber, S Kunkel, K Luettich
Background: The study was designed to improve the discrimination between functional and neoplastic ovarian cysts in order to avoid unnecessary surgery.
Methods: Concentrations of tumor markers (CA 125, CEA, CASA, CA 72-4) and hormones (estradiol, FSH, LH) in cyst fluid were detected by enzyme immuno- or immunoradiometric assays. Wilcoxon test was used to evaluate the correlation of cyst fluid markers and histology.
Results: One hundred and thirty-eight ovarian cyst aspirates were investigated. Seventy-one patients (51.5%) had functional cysts whereas 67 (48.5%) had benign (n=59) or malignant (n=8) cystic tumors. Statistically significant correlations of CA 125 (p<0.0005) and CASA (p<0.02) with neoplastic histology were found. No significant correlation could be detected between CA 72-4, CEA, or hormone values and histology. Elevated estradiol concentrations are suspicious for functional cysts in premenopausal age. Low FSH and LH levels seem to be an indicator for functional cysts in peri- and postmenopausal age.
Conclusions: The assessed analytes could not reliably distinguish between functional and neoplastic ovarian cysts. Our results indicate that CA 125 is a marker for neoplastic histology in a proportion of ovarian cysts. The use of FSH and LH in the diagnosis of postmenopausal blastomas needs further investigation.

 

[Elderflower j58]

Dear Dr Peat
Thank you so much for your prompt response to my problem.
I have attached a photo of my care plan. There may be some info in there that you can decipher?
I had a face-to-face appointment with my gynecologist yesterday Friday the 17th she seemed to me to be avoiding what I would call slightly good news regarding my condition but very reluctantly agreed to my wishes which are just the removal of cyst and my left ovary as it is enveloped by the cyst. The news which I think is good... is what she did not mention and had painted a pretty poor picture the week before.
That my womb uterus cervix could have Cancer or cancer markers or abnormal cells , and other parts of my body could have cancer markers, these parts of my body were not mentioned at all and when I asked her was my womb uterus cervix showing anything abnormal she said they were fine .
She does want to do a biopsy on the smaller 5cm cyst that is on my right ovary I'm not sure this would be to my advantage according to your excellent estrogen progesterone and menopausal articles what do you think
To put it crudely I think best left alone and not poked.
Another small piece of good news she said my TSH has gone down from 4.7 or 8 I am not sure to 2.6.
I know this is still not ideal but surely a good thing that it has lowered some what,
and d a very kind nurse who was sorting out my blood test agreed to add on progesterone and oestrogen as this is not normal just a special request.
When I asked the gynecologist why oestrogen and progesterone was not included in testing as especially unopposed oestrogen has a lot to do with cancerous cysts she brushed me aside
And continued to convince me regarding a hysterectomy.


DR PEAT'S ANSWER


You’re right about biopsies tending to activate inert abnormal cells. Progesterone protects against the stress of surgery, and reduces the risk of metastasis if any cancer cells are present. Hypothyroidism/high TSH reliably causes hypercholestolemia and excessive clotting; doctors who don’t know that shouldn’t work in medicine. 5,000 IU of vitamin D is o.k. until you get a blood test for it. If you eat eggs regularly, and milk and cheese, you probably get enough vitamin A; when thyroid function is low, the need for vitamin A is low, since it isn’t being used at the normal rate.

 

[Birdie]

Dear Dr Peat
Thank you so much for your prompt response to my problem.
I have attached a photo of my care plan. There may be some info in there that you can decipher?
I had a face-to-face appointment with my gynecologist yesterday Friday the 17th she seemed to me to be avoiding what I would call slightly good news regarding my condition but very reluctantly agreed to my wishes which are just the removal of cyst and my left ovary as it is enveloped by the cyst. The news which I think is good... is what she did not mention and had painted a pretty poor picture the week before.
That my womb uterus cervix could have Cancer or cancer markers or abnormal cells , and other parts of my body could have cancer markers, these parts of my body were not mentioned at all and when I asked her was my womb uterus cervix showing anything abnormal she said they were fine .
She does want to do a biopsy on the smaller 5cm cyst that is on my right ovary I'm not sure this would be to my advantage according to your excellent estrogen progesterone and menopausal articles what do you think
To put it crudely I think best left alone and not poked.
Another small piece of good news she said my TSH has gone down from 4.7 or 8 I am not sure to 2.6.
I know this is still not ideal but surely a good thing that it has lowered some what,
and d a very kind nurse who was sorting out my blood test agreed to add on progesterone and oestrogen as this is not normal just a special request.
When I asked the gynecologist why oestrogen and progesterone was not included in testing as especially unopposed oestrogen has a lot to do with cancerous cysts she brushed me aside
And continued to convince me regarding a hysterectomy.


DR PEAT'S ANSWER


You’re right about biopsies tending to activate inert abnormal cells. Progesterone protects against the stress of surgery, and reduces the risk of metastasis if any cancer cells are present. Hypothyroidism/high TSH reliably causes hypercholestolemia and excessive clotting; doctors who don’t know that shouldn’t work in medicine. 5,000 IU of vitamin D is o.k. until you get a blood test for it. If you eat eggs regularly, and milk and cheese, you probably get enough vitamin A; when thyroid function is low, the need for vitamin A is low, since it isn’t being used at the normal rate.

Thank you for writing this up for us. You explained it really well to Ray. I am glad to hear you prevailed with your Gyn re the surgery. And you got advice from Ray.