You've been overreacting and are just being paranoid about the Vaccine dangers

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Blaze

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Adverse as I instictively am to be forced into a world where behavior is controlled and vaccines are mandatory, Once in a while I double check myself by stepping back and playing devil's advocate. So, take this post tongue in cheek with a grain of salt. This thread is only about the vaccine and the danger or lack of danger it poses. The hazard of extreme authoritarian control can be discussed separately in a different thread. Always good to examine arguments alternative to the ones we currently favor. I and my wife work in the health care field and these remarks are based on what I see in real life.

Covid Vaccines pose an immediate danger:

Probably not. The percentage of individuals I see in health care settings survive the vaccine except for a very small percentage that have an adverse reaction almost instantly (within several minutes) who still do not die because we quickly administer Epinephrine in those rare instances which reverses that bad reaction.
I have seen many get sick with covid symptoms shortly after the jab. They recover though with few exceptions.

Covid Vaccines pose long term health risk due to changes involving reverse transcriptase:

Viruses (retroviruses) themselves for milennia have interacted with our genome using their own reverse transciptase and humans have always been a combination of human dna and a huge amount of "junk dna" which is in large part composed of viral genetic material. Based on our long coexistence with viruses and our ability to adapt or coexist, the threat of this vaccine doing the harm may be way overblown.

Covid Vaccines adjuvants pose a danger:

The use of agents to provoke extreme inflammatory responses to ensure a robust immune response to antigen production is nothing new and when I got the hepatitis vaccine it had very similar stuff in it that the current covid vax has. No untoward bad reaction was perceived by me at all. When I was in the military sent overseas I and hundreds of fellow servicemen were given more vaccinations in a short period than many receive in a lifetime. No adverse reaction. Bad reactions in my experience seem to be the exception, not the rule. I think this new authoritarian environment is making us react and feel threatened but is the vaccine the real threat? Might do much less harm than our perceptions currently afford us.

The greatest threat we currently face may indeed by the control being forced on us, not the vaccine. (With the caveat that there are no completely safe medicines or vaccines)
 
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The default, pre-existing state is where one has not taken the vaccine.

The argument is made that one should take the vaccine, it is even mandated and if need be will be enforced.

Modeling studies come to the conclusion that the vaccine is more harmful than the virus for everyone below 55:


Any body (physical or institution) that mandates such a vaccine violates the "first do no harm" principle of medicine and violates ethics.

If this is enforced in any way then this is tyranny and needs to be stood up to and opposed, not silently accepted.

I do not care if the vaccine are perfectly 'safe'. I am 29 years old, I do not need one, I do not want one.

There is even no argument to be made that me getting vaccinated protects anyone else as they have been shown to not work that way.



Why in GOD's name would I want one?
 
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Adverse as I instictively am to be forced into a world where behavior is controlled and vaccines are mandatory, Once in a while I double check myself by stepping back and playing devil's advocate. So, take this post tongue in cheek with a grain of salt. This thread is only about the vaccine and the danger or lack of danger it poses. The hazard of extreme authoritarian control can be discussed separately in a different thread. Always good to examine arguments alternative to the ones we currently favor.

Covid Vaccines pose an immediate danger:

Probably not. The percentage of individuals I see in health care settings survive the vaccine except for a very small percentage that have an adverse reaction almost instantly (within several minutes) who still do not die because we quickly administer Epinephrine in those rare instances which reverses that bad reaction.
I have seen many get sick with covid symptoms shortly after the jab. They recover though with few exceptions.

Covid Vaccines pose long term health risk due to changes involving reverse transcriptase:

Viruses (retroviruses) themselves for milennia have interacted with our genome using their own reverse transciptase and humans have always been a combination of human dna and a huge amount of "junk dna" which is in large part composed of viral genetic material. Based on our long coexistence with viruses and our ability to adapt or coexist, the threat of this vaccine doing the harm may be way overblown.

Covid Vaccines adjuvants pose a danger:

The use of agents to provoke extreme inflammatory responses to ensure a robust immune response to antigen production is nothing new and when I got the hepatitis vaccine it had very similar stuff in it that the current covid vax has. No untoward bad reaction was perceived by me at all.

The real danger of the vaccines, and predicted by intelligent caring top medical professionals, is to be longterm, as if the immediate and horrendous side effects aren't bad enough. With so many credible doctors, with no agendas and everything to lose, speaking out against these vaccine vs the "money makers" from the vaccines saying they are good for us, I am baffled to hear anybody say this on a health site. I get we got a lot of non Ray Peat people entertaining themselves on this site, with many who want to trust "the powers that be". These are the ones that blindly get vaccinated because their vacations and restaurant outings seem to be worth it, the ones not being too easily entertained at home, or those poor people who have get it against their will all around the world. Being forced to inject something into your body against your will should be your first clue. Every new law and every new rule put into place is one more step to less freedom. It is too bad you have missed the bigger picture. Dont know what makes your opinion hold more weight against the innumerous doctors like these, in the 6 minute video below? I can only speculate that you drank the Koolade and you are hoping more Ray "Peaters" will follow, to relate and wallow in misery together when the crap hits the fan, as they say misery loves company. I ernestly wish you well.


View: https://twitter.com/SebGorka/status/1424603849952829442
 
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Blaze

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The real danger of the vaccines, and predicted by intelligent caring top medical professionals, is to be longterm, as if the immediate and horrendous side effects aren't bad enough. With so many credible doctors, with no agendas and everything to lose, speaking out against these vaccine vs the "money makers" from the vaccines saying they are good for us, I am baffled to hear anybody say this on a health site. I get we got a lot of non Ray Peat people entertaining themselves on this site, with many who want to trust "the powers that be". These are the ones that blindly get vaccinated because their vacations and restaurant outings seem to be worth it, the ones not being too easily entertained at home, or those poor people who have get it against their will all around the world. Being forced to inject something into your body against your will should be your first clue. Every new law and every new rule put into place is one more step to less freedom. It is too bad you have missed the bigger picture. Dont know what makes your opinion hold more weight against the in numerous doctors like these, in the 6 minute video below? I can only speculate that you drank the Koolade and you are hoping more Ray "Peaters" will follow, to relate and wallow in misery together when the crap hits the fan, as they say misery loves company. I ernestly wish you well.


View: https://twitter.com/SebGorka/status/1424603849952829442

I admire and am grateful to Ray and could not be correctly classified as a non-Ray Peat person, but neither am I beholden exclusively to him and must think for myself. I would suggest Ray would prefer you to be free thinking and always challenging his ideas. Again, just a devils advocate post to provoke discussion. The video you posted is an awesome one. I have no agenda and would like to avoid all medical interventions to myself including further vaccines. That being said, I actually get to see what happens and am recounting first hand what I have witnessed. And I have seen plenty over the years. The potential long term vaccine damage for me is the biggest unknown concern. If the short term harm was as common as we suggest here on this forum, I think I would have seen a lot more extreme bad reactions. I was working in a facility that was on the news as having the most covid cases in the state. I worked with many more covid cases than most here will ever see with their own eyes. On a side note- seems like most recover from covid as long as they are not intubated. Most can also handle the vaccine (in the short term) though for many - commonly they tend to manifest varying level of sickness in the days immediatly after , or just a sore arm in others.

I too worry about potential long term effects.
 
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InChristAlone

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Long term immune system issues are my primary concern. I don't want vaccines and won't be forced to get one. I see it much the same as a woman who gets breasts implants. She may love the outcome and not see any immediate problems, but yrs down the road she's suffering from a long list of symptoms so much so she chooses to get them taken out. Unfortunately with a vaccine you can't choose to get it taken out of you later on.
 

gaze

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one shot maybe. What about booster shots for life?

 
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Blaze

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one shot maybe. What about booster shots for life?

Agreed, when what we put in our body is no longer ours to choose , any future treatment and regardless of it's potential harm or benefit will be forced. Booster shots or whatever they require for life.

And Sugarbabe is right, no one can forsee the longterm effects. It's a real concern for all of us.
 
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gaze

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Agreed, when what we put in our body is no longer ours to choose , any future treatment and it's potential harm will be forced. Booster shots or whatever they require for life.

And Sugarbabe is right, no one can forsee the longterm effects. It's a real concern for all of us.
but will you take the booster shot if in a year they say the first 2 vaccines immunity is all but gone and theres a new variant? and what about the year after that?
 
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Blaze

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but will you take the booster shot if in a year they say the first 2 vaccines immunity is all but gone and theres a new variant? and what about the year after that?
It's distressing, I think we are all looking for a way to have the power to choose what we want and refuse what we disagree with. Any way to unite and oppose the brainwashing would be great. But instead, look at how careful even Danny and Geordi seem to be in what they can say on a podcast. Even they are aware of the extreme power of the opposing forces.

Medicine has been hijacked to where if you even express a medical opinion you can be punished. Everything spoken has to be prefaced with an inane disclaimer that this is not medical advice, listen to your doctor. Censorship has everyone walking on eggshells.
 
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gaze

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for what its worth I partially I agree that this forum overreacts a bit with the vaccine. I think a large part of it has to with Ray emailing someone saying the vaccine could potentially reduce the population by 80-90%. thats a bit of a stretch in my books, but at this point we've already been blasted by so many toxins in the environment that who knows. If population drops, there will be no way to tell if it was the vaccines, or the continually rise in pufas/fish oil, or heavy metals, or emf, or holding a cell phone in our hands for 8 hours a day, or loneliness, or dangerous medications, etc, etc.

Based off what I've seen from friends and family who work in hospitals, I also think covid is a bit more dangerous than Ray seems to think, but thats just my own opinion.
 
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skuabird

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I appreciate you starting this thread, @Blaze. I have been arguing with friends on social media (or rather they have really started arguing with me)...I post stuff about vaxx efficacy and get rl fact-checkers. There are many issues, like you said, one is mandates/authoritarianism another is vaxx safety (it's definitely a lot less safe than previous vaccines, right?) but the one I'm focusing on most recently is efficacy.

If the vaxxed and unvaxxed have equal viral loads (delta variant, say) what would be the point of getting it? (What's the point of mandating it too? Erase the control group?)

Now my rl fact checkers blame these variants on the unvaxxed...but even if it was true, what would be the point of getting vaxxed with the OG spike protein if the variants are really what's spreading at this point?
 
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Blaze

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for what its worth I partially I agree that this forum overreacts a bit with the vaccine. I think a large part of it has to with Ray emailing someone saying the vaccine could potentially reduce the population by 80-90%. thats a bit of a stretch in my books, but at this point we've already been blasted by so many toxins in the environment that who knows at this point. If population drops, there will be no way to tell if it was the vaccines, or the rise in pufas, or heavy metals, or emf, or holding a cell phone in our hands for 8 hours a day, or loneliness, or dangerous medications, etc, etc.

Based off what I've seen from friends and family who work in hospitals, I also think covid is a bit more dangerous than Ray seems to think, but thats just my own opinion.
Ray is so tireless and enthusiastic and his level of knowledge is beyond enviable. I have never been this impressed and changed by somebody's ideas before him. That being said, when he is being playful I think he has a penchant to exaggerate. I remember he said he had 30-50 cups a coffee a day and Geordi said , oh you were drinking more coffee in those days than milk. Ray said, uh uh ,no.

24 hours 50 cups of coffee , more than a cup every half hour and more milk than coffee imagine how many cups of milk then? And said he would barely pee, he evaporated most of it and in those days he would tend to fog up a mirror or window walking by it.

Or, his bodies powerful strange electrical field interfering with plasma generator or something equipment..........

In addition , He's super funny even when being serious. One of my favorites recently was:

where he said raising a pig dressed in a sweater made the pig fat more saturated and a much healthier food.

Maybe we should start a thread with the funniest Ray quotes. Laughter is supposedly the best medicine. Gotta be better than traditional medicine, that's for sure.

His science is the best, but his playful remarks just kill me. Love the guy.
 
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gaze

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Maybe we should start a thread with the funniest Ray quotes. Laughter is supposedly the best medicine.
 
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Blaze

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nice:

"A crocodile might experience the same sort of allergic reaction when eating estrogen-treated women and when eating commercial bananas."

Just killing me.....................too funny

Oh, the suffering......... and Probably a croc ingesting a male with man boobs will suffer the same estrogenic adverse reaction.


There is another funny quote that I barely remember that Danny talked about, something like a person said that Ray has a doctorate in B.S. Ray answered " oh, uh how did they know, I never tell anybody that I have degree in that."

Feel free somebody to correct how I phrased this, I know I am remembering it just a bit off. I would rather the quote was true to form. It sure was a funny one.
 
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Blaze

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I appreciate you starting this thread, @Blaze. I have been arguing with friends on social media (or rather they have really started arguing with me)...I post stuff about vaxx efficacy and get rl fact-checkers. There are many issues, like you said, one is mandates/authoritarianism another is vaxx safety (it's definitely a lot less safe than previous vaccines, right?) but the one I'm focusing on most recently is efficacy.

If the vaxxed and unvaxxed have equal viral loads (delta variant, say) what would be the point of getting it? (What's the point of mandating it too? Erase the control group?)

Now my rl fact checkers blame these variants on the unvaxxed...but even if it was true, what would be the point of getting vaxxed with the OG spike protein if the variants are really what's spreading at this point?
You're welcome. Always good to keep an open mind. In my love for the Peat stuff I don't want to become a mindless drone. Even the stuff here on the Ray forum should be thoroughly challenged. His solid science based ideas will certainly weather the challenge quite nicely.

I can't imagine that Ray would be threatened by discussing alternative ideas. Quite the opposite, I'm sure.

I do worry that when I make a post like this I run the risk of alienating some of the good people who frequent here.
 
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Lord Cola

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Why would the establishment people want to kill off or severely injure its most loyal followers?
 

boris

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Why would the establishment people want to kill off or severely injure its most loyal followers?

Bright and healthy people are more opposed to authoritarian measures and blind obedience. It's the same reason why estrogen, serotonin, PUFAs, etc. get promoted as healthful. The sicker and stupider people get, the easier it is to control them. If push comes to shove, the estrogen fueled mob will take care of the minority "dissenters", for example by pushing for or agreeing to new laws. Go on any youtube or instagram comment section on recent topics and read what the people want to do with the unvaxxed "superspreaders" or mask deniers. The establishment would gain nothing from making their followers happy and healthy. In fact most people are loyal followers to them in the first place because they are already in a suboptimal state.
 
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Blaze

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Bright and healthy people are more opposed to authoritarian measures and blind obedience. It's the same reason why estrogen, serotonin, PUFAs, etc. get promoted as healthful. The sicker and stupider people get, the easier it is to control them. If push comes to shove, the estrogen fueled mob will take care of the minority "dissenters", for example by pushing for or agreeing to new laws. Go on any youtube or instagram comment section on recent topics and read what the people want to do with the unvaxxed "superspreaders" or mask deniers. The establishment would gain nothing from making their followers happy and healthy. In fact most people are loyal followers to them in the first place because they are already in a suboptimal state.
Unfortunately, You are not wrong.
 
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I admire and am grateful to Ray and could not be correctly classified as a non-Ray Peat person, but neither am I beholden exclusively to him and must think for myself. I would suggest Ray would prefer you to be free thinking and always challenging his ideas. Again, just a devils advocate post to provoke discussion. The video you posted is an awesome one. I have no agenda and would like to avoid all medical interventions to myself including further vaccines. That being said, I actually get to see what happens and am recounting first hand what I have witnessed. And I have seen plenty over the years. The potential long term vaccine damage for me is the biggest unknown concern. If the short term harm was as common as we suggest here on this forum, I think I would have seen a lot more extreme bad reactions. I was working in a facility that was on the news as having the most covid cases in the state. I worked with many more covid cases than most here will ever see with their own eyes. On a side note- seems like most recover from covid as long as they are not intubated. Most can also handle the vaccine (in the short term) though for many - commonly they tend to manifest varying level of sickness in the days immediatly after , or just a sore arm in others.

I too worry about potential long term effects.
I am not debating Covid cause our bodies were made perfectly fine for nature to take it's course. I only commented on the vaccines. I have seen my friend have an immediate bad month long experience, with the first shot and shecsaid was the worst pain of her life. My husband is one year now of having one of the worst pains of his life from a tetanus shot last August. I will be happy to think for myself when I feel more knowledgable than someone like Ray Peat, and it is working out beautifully. Why would i not sign up for some of it? I don't know how much searching and wondering about what to do with your health you are doing on this site, but I am not doing any, so teach me some more Ray Peat! I can't get enough! Again i come in peace, and you ask for the debate :)
 
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Blaze

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I am not debating Covid cause our bodies were made perfectly fine for nature to take it's course. I only commented on the vaccines. I have seen my friend have an immediate bad month long experience, with the first shot and shecsaid was the worst pain of her life. My husband is one year now of having one of the worst pains of his life from a tetanus shot last August. I will be happy to think for myself when I feel more knowledgable than someone like Ray Peat, and it is working out beautifully. Why would i not sign up for some of it? I don't know how much searching and wondering about what to do with your health you are doing on this site, but I am not doing any, so teach me some more Ray Peat! I can't get enough! Again i come in peace, and you ask for the debate :)
No worries. I never saw your comments as anything but peaceful my friend and always enjoy your posts. I think it was you that turned me on to the unprocessed milk at sprouts. Hoping you see a friend when I post , and just keep learning. Never stop growing, I know I don't want to stop learning either. Here's a pic of my new puppy Bruce and my foot(not a great photographer). Hope it brings you a smile.
 

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