11-keto DHT - Adrenosterone Derivative For Lab/R&D Use

[haidut]

Good stuff. I started on Sunday, and took yesterday. I plan on taking 2-3x a week. @haidut have you seen bloods where T is lowered from exogenous usage of DHT? It seems to me conservative usage of KDHT or androsterone shouldn't contribute to negative feedback loop. (Unless abused)

The human studies with DHT did not see suppression or lower T from DHT doses in the 25mg daily range. Doses of 80mg - 100mg daily did lower T and E.
But I would do a blood test to confirm no suppression is occurring as everybody is different and for some people even DHEA seems to cause issues in higher doses.

 

[Wagner83]

The human studies with DHT did not see suppression or lower T from DHT doses in the 25mg daily range. Doses of 80mg - 100mg daily did lower T and E.
But I would do a blood test to confirm no suppression is occurring as everybody is different and for some people even DHEA seems to cause issues in higher doses.

I think a lot of people wonder how much these doses apply to dht when dissolved in dmso ( " 10 times more potent in dmso" ), from what I see most people see important effects from 1-2 mg.

 

[haidut]

I think a lot of people wonder how much these doses apply to dht when dissolved in dmso ( " 10 times more potent in dmso" ), from what I see most people see important effects from 1-2 mg.

True, I also think that no more than 5mg daily is needed for most people especially given the much longer half life of 11KDHT.

 

[TeslaFan]

True, I also think that no more than 5mg daily is needed for most people especially given the much longer half life of 11KDHT.

Yes, I think half-life is the key here. I was taking this every day for about 3 weeks, and HL is over 24 hrs long. So, it will keep accumulating when taken daily. The best would be to take this every other day, or perhaps every third day.

 

[TeslaFan]

T could be lowered as much less estrogens are produced so less T is needed. Not sure I would cause that suppression given your usual levels but I'm just talking out of my **** there.

Possibly. I wish I tested estrogens on the rat at that time, too. Rat's T was never high to begin with, like you pointed out, but I also never saw it below 300 before. Certainly, other variables could be involved. Not trying to scare anyone. To the contrary, like I said, rat felt great while taking it, and happily mounted other female rats.
It still takes it occasionally, just not daily. It's one of my rat's favorite research substances.

 

[cyclops]

So it seems 5mg or less, every other day at most, is best. How long do you think a rat should keep doing this before taking a break? And how long of a break before starting again?

 

[Jsaute21]

So it seems 5mg or less, every other day at most, is best. How long do you think a rat should keep doing this before taking a break? And how long of a break before starting again?

Haidut seems to often recommend taking a break once every 4-6 weeks. Seems to be highly dependent on how one is feeling. Correct me if im wrong @haidut, but at the dosage mentioned above, taking a break should be relatively unnecessary unless one A.) gets bloods and DHT is too elevated B.) Go off symptoms.

 

[haidut]

Haidut seems to often recommend taking a break once every 4-6 weeks. Seems to be highly dependent on how one is feeling. Correct me if im wrong @haidut, but at the dosage mentioned above, taking a break should be relatively unnecessary unless one A.) gets bloods and DHT is too elevated B.) Go off symptoms.

Yes, and I would also add condition 3) - if one notices consistent lack of effects, despite strong response at the beginning. This is probably an indication that liver is adjusting and eliminating the steroids faster so some break may be needed or maybe adding a little pregnenolone, which seems to "reset" things in a way and allow the organism to start anew.

 

[cyclops]

cool thanks!

 

[Wagner83]

This is probably an indication that liver is adjusting and eliminating the steroids faster so some break may be needed or maybe adding a little pregnenolone, which seems to "reset" things in a way and allow the organism to start anew.

That's one thing I never really understood, why does the liver try to excrete these bio identical steroids faster to restore a potentially poorer state of health? Doesn't it suggest the liver has to work more too?

 

[haidut]

That's one thing I never really understood, why does the liver try to excrete these bio identical steroids faster to restore a potentially poorer state of health? Doesn't it suggest the liver has to work more too?

I think ingesting more than the physiological amount of anything triggers that effect. Vitamin K is the only (possible) exception that I know where every organ tries to get as much vitamin K as it can and there seems to be no liver adjustment but that may be because no studies with high doses have been done. So, with steroids, this is yet another reason to stay with lower doses as the organism clearly perceives them as powerful regulators and adjusts accordingly. To me the 30mg daily pregnenolone dose is plenty, and if combined with DHEA I would actually split the pregnenolone in as many doses as the DHEA that is taken to make it even more physiological as pregnenolone and DHEA are usually released together.

 

[Scenes]

@haidut Is the new formula without dmso still best used topically?

 

[haidut]

@haidut Is the new formula without dmso still best used topically?

Yes, it should have very similar absorption to the DMSO formula, at least based on what the studies about the new solvent mixed with ethanol show.

 

[opethfeldt]

Does anyone else experience adrenaline surges from using DHT? My rat has been having a lot of issues with this lately and it's becoming a problem, mainly due to the increase in aggression this causes. I can only assume it's from cortisol being lowered and adrenaline coming up to compensate. On another note, I have reduced the dose to 5mg per day and if anything, the effects seem stronger than they were at the 10-15mg range. I think my rat was getting suppressed a bit at those dosages.

 

[Scenes]

Does anyone else experience adrenaline surges from using DHT? My rat has been having a lot of issues with this lately and it's becoming a problem, mainly due to the increase in aggression this causes. I can only assume it's from cortisol being lowered and adrenaline coming up to compensate. On another note, I have reduced the dose to 5mg per day and if anything, the effects seem stronger than they were at the 10-15mg range. I think my rat was getting suppressed a bit at those dosages.

I'm about to start at 3-5mg/day today so I'll let you know in a week or so, but I've been warned that DHT isn't as protective as T and as such will cause these stress responses.

A lot of you are claiming these euphoric responses to DHT with mood and manliness and what not, but also saying body hair is increasing which I thought was a stress response too, unless it's on the legs.

Not sure what to make of it as haidut seems to suggest DHT is the ultimate androgen we should be desiring while T may even be just a helpful prohormone in that process...

 

[Jsaute21]

I'm about to start at 3-5mg/day today so I'll let you know in a week or so, but I've been warned that DHT isn't as protective as T and as such will cause these stress responses.

A lot of you are claiming these euphoric responses to DHT with mood and manliness and what not, but also saying body hair is increasing which I thought was a stress response too, unless it's on the legs.

Not sure what to make of it as haidut seems to suggest DHT is the ultimate androgen we should be desiring while T may even be just a helpful prohormone in that process...

DHT is an extremely important hormone...who warned you it isnt as protective as T? It is very rare to come across somebody who has superb DHT and low T first off...they generally go somewhat hand in hand unless ones T is good, and AR is low. Me for one, has T that fluctuates from 600-800 usually in bloods. (This is even while being functionally hypothyroid.) I felt the worst i have felt ever 2 years ago, and got my t checked. 817 with off the reference range high free T. I almost guarantee AR enzyme was low and not functioning well.

I would argue that DHT is more important than T.

 

[Scenes]

DHT is an extremely important hormone...who warned you it isnt as protective as T? It is very rare to come across somebody who has superb DHT and low T first off...they generally go somewhat hand in hand unless ones T is good, and AR is low. Me for one, has T that fluctuates from 600-800 usually in bloods. (This is even while being functionally hypothyroid.) I felt the worst i have felt ever 2 years ago, and got my t checked. 817 with off the reference range high free T. I almost guarantee AR enzyme was low and not functioning well.

I would argue that DHT is more important than T.

Just read this from the 5ar/PFS thread, suggests dht is created from T due to stress and estrogen overload:

I don't say dht is cause of hairloss... But lack of protective nutrients like triiodothyronine and progesterone...

German papers clearly state that hypothyroidism is the starting point to male pattern baldness... If this hypothyroid person has good levels of Progesterone... so then he or she will be protected since progesterone is one of most potent aromatase inhibitors and progesterone is protective against hypothyroidism...helping body not raise estrogen so then body doesn't need to convert testosterone into dht to fight estrogen and stress.

 

[unexamined_whimsy]

Just read this from the 5ar/PFS thread, suggests dht is created from T due to stress and estrogen overload:

I don't say dht is cause of hairloss... But lack of protective nutrients like triiodothyronine and progesterone...

German papers clearly state that hypothyroidism is the starting point to male pattern baldness... If this hypothyroid person has good levels of Progesterone... so then he or she will be protected since progesterone is one of most potent aromatase inhibitors and progesterone is protective against hypothyroidism...helping body not raise estrogen so then body doesn't need to convert testosterone into dht to fight estrogen and stress.

@Scenes , can you post links to the German articles that show hypothyroidism is the root cause for MPB?

 

[Wagner83]

Does anyone else experience adrenaline surges from using DHT? My rat has been having a lot of issues with this lately and it's becoming a problem, mainly due to the increase in aggression this causes. I can only assume it's from cortisol being lowered and adrenaline coming up to compensate. On another note, I have reduced the dose to 5mg per day and if anything, the effects seem stronger than they were at the 10-15mg range. I think my rat was getting suppressed a bit at those dosages.

Interesting why do you say adrenaline surges? Do you get cold hands and feet? At times rat has been more aggressive and irritable on androgenic supplements from haidut, I think it could be the dmso (potential effects on StAR and progesterone as well as other things like histamine (quite a few reported breathing issues) etc..), but as haidut said on the tyronene thread, these supplements are very potent and very (too) specific in their mechanisms which may lead to issues. The new solvent should help answer that question . I think 5 mg daily is still a lot (dmso, half life), at this point it sounds like you could take some days off and restart with 1-2 mg three times a week. Just a thought though.

 

[cyclops]

If put on face, would this create a more masculine face?