What's normal paleolithic human temperature and pulse?

[Westside PUFAs]

Miscommunication. My mistake.

 

[4peatssake]

@ ForPeat'sSake @4peatssake

This forum is for members interested in learning about and discussing Dr. Ray Peat's ideas, as presented in his writing and interviews, and in helping each other to think about how we can apply these ideas in our own lives. Ray Peat has agreed to this forum being started, but he does not moderate or participate here. Posts here do not necessarily represent his views.

So does this mean that any suggestion that Dr. Peat is wrong about a particular aspect of human health won't be tolerated?

Not necessarily, no.

So why on earth have you let the 'Soluble fiber in Breast Milk' thread go on for so long?

Your particular thread was moved to the non Peat section of the forum because it isn't a discussion of Ray Peat nor his work. We are a tolerant forum but will moderate when these types of non Peat and anti Peat discussions begin to dominate the forum.

In other words, you don't see improving on Dr. Peats views as a constructive possibility

By whom? You? We don't even allow Danny Roddy's views discussed in the RP section of the forum and he is someone with whom some consider to have improved upon or synthesized for others some of Peat's work. All of what you argue is in defense of arguing against Ray Peat, proving him wrong, improving his message etc. and that is not our purpose here.

Isn't this forum about pursuing optimum health, not slavishly subscribing to one perspective?

The forum is about what you quoted above which I have bolded. It is stated very clearly that the forum is about discussing Ray Peat. Not arguing against him or "improving" upon his views. Look at your words, "slavishly subscribing to one perspective" as if to say us wanting to discuss Ray Peat's ideas means that is what we do. It's insulting. You fail to see that the point is simply that we wish to distill Peat's views from others so we can discuss them. Many of us here are pursuing optimal health using Peat's work as our framework for doing so. The forum chooses to keep his views as clear and uncluttered as possible so we may continue to do so without having to filter the views of his many detractors. It's a free will decision by the forum administration to structure the forum in such a way.

It's an interesting question don't you think. I think many of Dr. Peat's ideas are wonderful. Just not his views about the role and function of the human microbiome. And I've never tried to disguise that - from the outset.

Yes, you've been quite vocal about your views.
And when you do on occasion reference Ray Peat, it is usually not very favorably. Here are a few examples.

Guess Dr. Peat won't be going on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet anytime soon. Icecream anyone?

Don't you think it's time Dr. Peat made friends with his microbiome?

It does worry me a bit that Dr. Peat does seem to share at least a hint of the 'Pboy/Sea' attitude to bacteria.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dr. Peat seems to ignore - or perhaps not even be aware of - this critical distinction between good and bad bacteria.

I think respecting our evolutionary heritage of eating a lot of carbohydrate is another one of Dr. Peat's good ideas.

(This statement is not representative of Ray Peat. I have never heard him advocate eating carbohydrates for the purpose of “respecting our evolutionary heritage.”) I honestly question how much you have read or understood his work.

Many commenters (not just in that thread either) often express misgivings about particular aspects of 'Peat Wisdom' And to be frank, the quality of Dr. Peat's message can only be improved by them so doing. What do you think?

I think you want to justify your anti Peat viewpoint and make it appear others share your view that "Peat's message" can be improved upon, which they may or may not. It's not the point.

The forum is for discussing Ray Peat's views - not yours, not mine nor anyone else's. That's the point. You may not like this nor agree with it, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. What we request, however, is that you respect and work within the forum guidelines.

I've taken my time to address your comments so you and others who may have similar views can better understand and work within our forum guidelines and we can avoid further argument.

 

[4peatssake]

Stuart, I agree with 4peatssake here because when I saw that you said this:

"There are probably only a few physicians now practicing who would remember to check for hypothyroidism in an arthritis patient, or in other stress-related conditions."

I thought to myself "Oh, he's one of those. People who think MD's have your best interest in mind."

Now, of course not all MD's are evil drug pushers. But, the context here is that you must take your health into your own hands, and specifically be aggressive about getting much needed lab work done to see what your blood says about things like TSH, iron etc. You can not expect an MD to check everything for you. You have to do it yourself.

Except I've never said anything of the sort Westside. I don't actually agree with it either FWIW. What makes you think l said it?

The quote was by Ray Peat.
Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians remember to check for hypothyroidism in arthritic patients or other stress related conditions? Or you take issue with Peat here in some other way?

Also, exactly what are you 'agreeing' with 4PS about? I'm not even sure exactly what was being said.
What I need to know is , what percentage of Dr.Peat's (or those 'generally accepted to be Peat precepts' - whatever that means) does a contributor to this forum have to subscribe to ? 85% 96.8? 98.6 perhaps. Help me out here. I just need a number for pete's (????) sake.

You don't have to subscribe to anything Stuart. Just please don't spam the forum with your alternative views.

 

[Stuart]

The quote was by Ray Peat.
Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians remember to check for hypothyroidism in arthritic patients or other stress related conditions? Or you take issue with Peat here in some other way?

Also, exactly what are you 'agreeing' with 4PS about? I'm not even sure exactly what was being said.
What I need to know is , what percentage of Dr.Peat's (or those 'generally accepted to be Peat precepts' - whatever that means) does a contributor to this forum have to subscribe to ? 85% 96.8? 98.6 perhaps. Help me out here. I just need a number for pete's (????) sake.

You don't have to subscribe to anything Stuart. Just please don't spam the forum with your alternative views.

I didn't even know it was a Peat quote. I disagreed with it because Westside P was implying that I'd said it. I don't know anything about the likelihood of Physicians to test for hypothyroidism. I've never even consulted a physician about hypothyroidism ,arthritis, or any other stress related condition.
The whole thing is utterly ridiculous quite frankly. Westside got confused. You have read an amazing amount into my opinion about a subject that I don't actually even have an opinion about.
'But I have to ask you again, if you really do think that I am 'spamming the forum with my alternative views', it does seem rather odd that you have let the thread go on for so long. It's hardly as if I was unclear about my views from the outset.
In fact nothing that has been said on that thread so far has even remotely diminished my conviction that Dr. Peat has a grave blind spot in his views about the human microbiome.
You do seem to be implying that you need to censor that opinion being expressed here.
Is that the case?

 

[Giraffe]

The whole thing is utterly ridiculous quite frankly. Westside got confused. You have read an amazing amount into my opinion about a subject that I don't actually even have an opinion about.
'But I have to ask you again, if you really do think that I am 'spamming the forum with my alternative views', it does seem rather odd that you have let the thread go on for so long. It's hardly as if I was unclear about my views from the outset.
In fact nothing that has been said on that thread so far has even remotely diminished my conviction that Dr. Peat has a grave blind spot in his views about the human microbiome.
You do seem to be implying that you need to censor that opinion being expressed here.
Is that the case?

Stuart, 4peatssake has made it clear more than once that the moderators want discussions about alternative theories be separated from discussing Ray Peat's ideas. Your microbiome thread is in the "Debate Forum". Which part do you not understand?

It's your stubborness and aggressiveness that are ridiculous.

 

[zooma]

What is your purpose in being on this forum Stuart?

If you disagree so strongly with Ray's ideas I'm a bit confused as to why you are here. Your focus on the microbiome would be warmly received on various paleo sites.

The question extends to EnoreeG too.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians remember to check for hypothyroidism in arthritic patients or other stress related conditions? Or you take issue with Peat here in some other way? .

No, I misread the quote. I thought Stuart was saying that he trusts all MD's opinions. He didn't say that. I just read your post on the other page and saw that underlined part and thought that Stuart wrote it because I didn't read the rest. Like I said "you must take your health into your own hands, and specifically be aggressive about getting much needed lab work done to see what your blood says about things like TSH, iron etc. You can not expect an MD to check everything for you. You have to do it yourself." So my context was, of course MD's don't check thyroid because they think it's quackery when in reality it's very important.

 

[4peatssake]

Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians remember to check for hypothyroidism in arthritic patients or other stress related conditions? Or you take issue with Peat here in some other way? .

No, I misread the quote. I thought Stuart was saying that he trusts all MD's opinions. He didn't say that. I just read your post on the other page and saw that underlined part and thought that Stuart wrote it because I didn't read the rest. Like I said "you must take your health into your own hands, and specifically be aggressive about getting much needed lab work done to see what your blood says about things like TSH, iron etc. You can not expect an MD to check everything for you. You have to do it yourself." So my context was, of course MD's don't check thyroid because they think it's quackery when in reality it's very important.

I understood and saw what unfolded. I know who the quote was from because it was posted by me and I was quoting Ray.

Here, I was asking Stuart why he disagreed with it as that is what he replied to you, that he didn't agree with what Ray said and I was interested in knowing what his disagreement was over.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

lol I misread again. I didn't see the "it" you wrote right after Stuart in "Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians" so i just read it as "Your disagreement with Stuart is because you do think physicians" which also makes no sense. Silly me.

 

[4peatssake]

The quote was by Ray Peat.
Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians remember to check for hypothyroidism in arthritic patients or other stress related conditions? Or you take issue with Peat here in some other way?

Also, exactly what are you 'agreeing' with 4PS about? I'm not even sure exactly what was being said.
What I need to know is , what percentage of Dr.Peat's (or those 'generally accepted to be Peat precepts' - whatever that means) does a contributor to this forum have to subscribe to ? 85% 96.8? 98.6 perhaps. Help me out here. I just need a number for pete's (????) sake.

You don't have to subscribe to anything Stuart. Just please don't spam the forum with your alternative views.

I didn't even know it was a Peat quote. I disagreed with it because Westside P was implying that I'd said it. I don't know anything about the likelihood of Physicians to test for hypothyroidism. I've never even consulted a physician about hypothyroidism ,arthritis, or any other stress related condition.

The quote was posted upthread viewtopic.php?p=92034#p92034
I'm not surprised you didn't know it came from RP as it doesn't appear from your posts that you are well versed in his work. And no, being well versed in his work is not a requirement to be here but it helps when choosing to engage in discussions. Furthermore, I'm not sure why you'd not simply inform Westside PUFAS that it wasn't your statement, instead you chose to say you disagreed with it.

The whole thing is utterly ridiculous quite frankly. Westside got confused. You have read an amazing amount into my opinion about a subject that I don't actually even have an opinion about.

I read nothing into it, except to see that you were in disagreement with RP, which is what I have observed from the majority of your posts. I asked you to explain why you disagreed with what Ray said. Now you say you don't have an opinion about it.

But I have to ask you again, if you really do think that I am 'spamming the forum with my alternative views', it does seem rather odd that you have let the thread go on for so long. It's hardly as if I was unclear about my views from the outset.

I replied to you about this in this post but you chose to respond to this post instead of that one.

In fact nothing that has been said on that thread so far has even remotely diminished my conviction that Dr. Peat has a grave blind spot in his views about the human microbiome.

And you make that assessment of Ray Peat based on your thread? You can't be serious.

You do seem to be implying that you need to censor that opinion being expressed here.
Is that the case?

I'm implying no such thing. "Censor" is your word because you don't appear to be willing to respect our forum guidelines and understand that what we discuss here is the work of Ray Peat.

 

[4peatssake]

lol I misread again. I didn't see the "it" you wrote right after Stuart in "Your disagreement with it Stuart is because you do think physicians" so i just read it as "Your disagreement with Stuart is because you do think physicians" which also makes no sense. Silly me.

no worries

 

[Stuart]

@ 4peatssake
I'm still a bit confused by your use of the term 'discuss' ( Ray Peat's work), I'd really like you to be a bit more upfront about whether 'discussing Dr.Peat's work includes 'disagreeing' with specific aspects of (what are generally considered to be) his views.
'As far as I can see we've been discussing the role of the human microbiome (and fermentable fiber's role in ensuring that it is healthy) all along.
Please stop beating around the bush 4PS. I need to know whether 'discussing' includes disagreeing with.
If the answer you give is NO, you'll never hear from me again.
The really interesting thing is that HDD just commented that Dr. Peat is starting to reassess his earlier opposition to consuming fermentable fiber.
That really is the most appalling thing about the attitude you are taking. Science (and people's understanding of what the available science tells us) advances by people both discussing and disagreeing.
But I do get the impression that you don't see any role for disagreement (with Dr. Peat) on this forum.
And I ask you to stop obfuscating about it. You've allowed a thread to continue prolifically in which I and other people never shrunk from disagreeing with Dr. Peat's attitudes about the microbiome in general, and fermentable fiber specifically.
If you were only interested in this forum being an advertising platform for Peat tenets which may or may not be correct, why did you do that?

 

[narouz]

As I said upthread,
Dr. Peat and his ideas are special to me.
One of the things about Peat that jumps out at you
is how anti-authoritarian he is.
Personally, I've sometimes wondered if he may go too far in that direction.
But in any event,
I think we should all agree about the core of his being and thought
being very anti-authoritarian and anti-dogmatic.

For that reason,
I think we bear a special responsibility here.
That is,
we need to try to guide and shape this forum very gently,
in my opinion.

I mean, I'm completely down with strong stances about personal attacks and insults.
And selling.

But when it comes to the free exchange of ideas...
I think we need to remember who this forum is named after.

I think Peat would be the last person to say that he would wish to censor all ideas
but his own from the forum.
Or to say that you were only welcome on the forum if you agreed with him--completely!!

I realize you mods have a tough job
and you do a good job--I wouldn't want to do it!
I'm just saying...Peat is about freedom, not censorship.

In the case of Stuart and Enoree...
I do think both of them could be accused of being slightly over-confident at times.
But, on the other hand,
they are very civil and polite.
Hell...some of our long-term members have been the impolite parties in the threads in question.
Both guys seem smart and informed and inquisitive.
Both seem to admire many things about Peat's ideas.

We are made better as a forum by allowing ourselves to be challenged.
Not insulted...challenged. Intellectually.
That's what it's all about.
It should not be all about us congratulating ourselves and boosting our confidence
and excising the "others" the "outsiders,"
the "stupid ones" who aren't 100% pro-Peat.

If we can't tolerate questioning of Peat's ideas,
that is the quickest way to turn the forum
into a Dogma Machine.

 

[HDD]

The really interesting thing is that HDD just commented that Dr. Peat is starting to reassess his earlier opposition to consuming fermentable fiber.

Umm, no, you misunderstood the reason I posted it and I will answer you in that thread.

 

[Stuart]

The really interesting thing is that HDD just commented that Dr. Peat is starting to reassess his earlier opposition to consuming fermentable fiber.

Umm, no, you misunderstood the reason I posted it and I will answer you in that thread.

It's O.K. HDD I do know why you posted it. It's all about interpretation isn't it?
This is also best answered in the other thread too, but perhaps you can spare yourself a lot of pointless throwing about of studies and Dr. Peat quotes etc. and just explain why YOU think humans have a huge bag at the lower end of our digestive tract with no other purpose than to be full of bacteria? I put this to Sea too ages ago when it seemed pertinent, and her answer was very revealing indeed.
It will help, honestly.

 

[Stuart]

@ 4peatssake
The other thing worth mentioning is that the debate section of this forum actually invites disagreement with Peat precepts doesn't it? 'Dont agree? Keep it civil and lets have a constructive discussion' - or words to that effect . The sheer volume of discussion that the 'fiber in breast milk' thread has generated is surely an incontovertible indication of the interest in the subject , don't you think?
Perhaps you were just hoping that it would peter out. But if anything, the interest in it is growing.
I'm sure that must be frustrating for you if you have stereotypical Peat views. But the man himself is nothing if not open minded. I almost detect a certain resentment in you (and perhaps that is shared by the rest of the editorial staff) that Dr. Peat may have been wrong on this one all along.
One thing's for sure though, even if that is true, Peatdom will emerge from this far stronger if you take it on board, and don't try to censor it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Why was this opened in General discussion then

 

[HDD]

The really interesting thing is that HDD just commented that Dr. Peat is starting to reassess his earlier opposition to consuming fermentable fiber.

Umm, no, you misunderstood the reason I posted it and I will answer you in that thread.

It's O.K. HDD I do know why you posted it. It's all about interpretation isn't it?
This is also best answered in the other thread too, but perhaps you can spare yourself a lot of pointless throwing about of studies and Dr. Peat quotes etc. and just explain why YOU think humans have a huge bag at the lower end of our digestive tract with no other purpose than to be full of bacteria? I put this to Sea too ages ago when it seemed pertinent, and her answer was very revealing indeed.
It will help, honestly.

I never should have entered your debate and the only reason I did was to post Peat's conclusions that are obviously based on current studies. I have studied gut health in the past and really have no desire or need to now. I find your posts somewhat offensive so therefore I will not continue in this debate.

 

[XPlus]

I got down to 44 during the Insanity program. It actually was higher while asleep

You mean th biggest loser

 

[Such_Saturation]

I got down to 44 during the Insanity program. It actually was higher while asleep

You mean th biggest loser

A few times a week there are these hour-long exercises, I think they were called Max Interval Circuit. Average heartrate 190