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There Is Probably No Limit To Human Lifespan

haidut

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The current ruling dogma in medicine is that human longevity is most likely genetically determined, and seems to be capped at about 125 years. The main arguments given in favor if this hypothesis are the apparently exponentially rising odds of dying with increasing age and the fact that no (officially) confirmed cases of human longevity beyond the age of 125 are known to science. Both of these claims do not survive closer scrutiny. People living well-beyond 125 years of age are known to science, with the most recent case shown below.
Shirali Muslimov - Wikipedia

Peat also mentioned this a few times and attributed the longevity of these people to their diet low in PUFA and living in an environment of high CO2.
Fats, functions and malfunctions.
"...Animals that naturally have a relatively low level of the highly unsaturated fats in their tissues have the greatest longevity. For example, the naked mole rate has a life expectancy of more than 28 years, about 9 times as long as other rodents of a similar size. Only about 2% to 6% of its phospholipids contain DHA, while about 27% to 57% of the phospholipids of mice contain DHA Mitchell, et al., 2007). The famously long-lived people of Azerbaijan eat a diet containing a low ratio of unsaturated to saturated fats, emphasizing fruits, vegetables, and dairy products (Grigorov, et al., 1991)."

Other cases of extreme longevity have been reported in China, Tibet, and among the Native Indians living on high plateaus in the Andes. However, these examples are rejected by scientists as "impossible" and thus not well publicized in the Western world.
The study below provided evidence against the first claim of the dogma mentioned above - i.e. the fact that the odds of dying increase exponentially with age. The study found that while the odds do increase for the first 105 years, after that they flatten out and even decrease slightly, which suggests there is no hard limit to human longevity. While this study was a statistical analysis and not something that focused on the biological origins of longevity, it matches well with Peat's opinion on the topic.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/the-travis-corner.21611/page-22#post-312475
"...I have never seen evidence that they ((our bodies)) contain any principle of mortality, and in recent years the suspicion that we contain all the equipment needed for perpetual renewal, given the right circumstances, is seeming to be increasingly plausible."

The problem of Alzheimer's disease as a clue to immortality Part 2
"...They are advancing a myth about human nature, so I will advance a counter-myth. At the time people were growing their large brains they lived in the tropics. I suggest that in this time before the development of grain-based agriculture, they ate a diet that was relatively free of unsaturated fats and low in iron--based on tropical fruits. I suggest that the Boskop skull from Mt. Kilimanjaro was representative of people under those conditions, and that just by our present knowledge of the association of brain size with longevity, they--as various "Golden Age" myths claim--must have had a very long life-span. As people moved north and developed new ways of living, their consumption of unsaturated fats increased, their brain size decreased, and they aged rapidly. Neanderthal relics show that flaxseed was a staple of their diet."

Now, the next step in the right direction for the authors of the study below would be to get out of the mentality that this extreme longevity is genetic and instead link it with metabolic intensity, diet, and lack of chronic stress. Unfortunately, extending human lifespan goes against the official policy and budgetary calculations of pretty much every nation on Earth. So, I would not expect studies on easy/cheap interventions for extending lifespan indefinitely to be well-received or ever funded officially.

The plateau of human mortality: Demography of longevity pioneers
Study Suggests There's No Limit on Longevity, But Getting Super Old Is Still Tough | Smart News | Smithsonian

"...According to a controversial study released in 2016, which analyzed data from 40 different countries, the average person could make it to 115 with the right genes and interventions, and a few genetic superstars would be able to make it to 125. But that was it, they argued. There was a wall of mortality that medicine and positive thinking simply cannot overcome. But not everyone is convinced by that data. That’s why for the new paper in the journal Science, researchers looked at the lifespans of 3,836 people in Italy who reached the age of 105 or older between 2009 and 2015, with their ages verified by birth certificates. What they found is that the Gompertz law goes a little haywire around the century mark. According to a press release, a 90 year old woman has a 15 percent chance of dying in the next year, and an estimated six years left to live. At age 95, the chance of dying per year jumps to 24 percent. At the age of 105, the chance of dying makes another leap to 50 percent. But then, surprisingly, it levels off, even past 110. In other words, at least statistically, each year some lucky person could flip the coin of life, and if it comes up heads every time, they could live beyond 115 or 125. “Our data tell us that there is no fixed limit to the human lifespan yet in sight,” senior author Kenneth Wachter of UC Berkeley says in the release. “Not only do we see mortality rates that stop getting worse with age, we see them getting slightly better over time.”"
 
Last edited:

Hans

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@haidut, what would you do if you could live to 200?
Most people retire at around 65, and say you still do programming 'till then (I think that's something you are doing right?), then sell products like you do now say until 100, would you continue doing that for another 100 years?

I know nobody plans that far ahead lol, but I wonder if someone would rather move away from modern life, to a more relaxed area and live more primitive, so to speak, if they knew they would live that long.
I think it would be cool to live that long, but would you not feel like you had enough of modern society as you know it when you get to 100? And then would want move on to something better, but like what?
 

haidut

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@haidut, what would you do if you could live to 200?
Most people retire at around 65, and say you still do programming 'till then (I think that's something you are doing right?), then sell products like you do now say until 100, would you continue doing that for another 100 years?

I know nobody plans that far ahead lol, but I wonder if someone would rather move away from modern life, to a more relaxed area and live more primitive, so to speak, if they knew they would live that long.
I think it would be cool to live that long, but would you not feel like you had enough of modern society as you know it when you get to 100? And then would want move on to something better, but like what?

I think with a lifespan that long, any set career path is unlikely to survive intact. We are already seeing this in our society with people under 50 having to change career paths, sometimes more than once, due to merging or disappearance of industries. With a long lifespan, this is even more likely to happen in any industry, and also the person would likely get bored working in any one field for extended period of time. Not sure if I have a good answer on what I would do except to say that I would continue to expose myself to as many new experiences/knowledge as possible in order to be better able to weather changing trends. Continuous isolation is probably also not something most people can sustain for too long. The hermits that do practice extreme isolation tend to not live long. It seems that humans need to have contact with other humans in order to maintain good health. Maybe live somewhere where you can have a house in the mountain around a few good, trustworthy people but be able to go down to the city if needed. The suburb model is not a good example, in fact I think it destroys anything good about neighborhoods. But there are some mountain communities in California and maybe Utah that I see doing some of that lifestyle. I think Peat lives somewhat like that too. Eugene, OR seems to have a bit of that combination of quieter communities on the hillsides and a bustling downtown.
 

Hans

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I think with a lifespan that long, any set career path is unlikely to survive intact. We are already seeing this in our society with people under 50 having to change career paths, sometimes more than once, due to merging or disappearance of industries. With a long lifespan, this is even more likely to happen in any industry, and also the person would likely get bored working in any one field for extended period of time. Not sure if I have a good answer on what I would do except to say that I would continue to expose myself to as many new experiences/knowledge as possible in order to be better able to weather changing trends. Continuous isolation is probably also not something most people can sustain for too long. The hermits that do practice extreme isolation tend to not live long. It seems that humans need to have contact with other humans in order to maintain good health. Maybe live somewhere where you can have a house in the mountain around a few good, trustworthy people but be able to go down to the city if needed. The suburb model is not a good example, in fact I think it destroys anything good about neighborhoods. But there are some mountain communities in California and maybe Utah that I see doing some of that lifestyle. I think Peat lives somewhat like that too. Eugene, OR seems to have a bit of that combination of quieter communities on the hillsides and a bustling downtown.
Yes I agree to continue learning is fundamental and getting a good community would work best. A nice self sustainable hobbit community :).
 

haidut

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Haidut produces sensation journalism for peatarians :D. Seems like a sutble marketing strategy for Idealabs.

I did not produce the study, and neither the title nor the study claims are mine. It is all the authors' own words.
Which part of this study or the remaining of the post do you see as marketing for IdeaLabs?
 

Prosper

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I did not produce the study, and neither the title nor the study claims are mine. It is all the authors' own words.
Which part of this study or the remaining of the post do you see as marketing for IdeaLabs?
Your topic headers are often provocative and overly optimistic. People look up to you. By sharing studies and discussing them as a voice of authority you receive indirect exposure and an appearance of increased legitimacy for your company and its products. Note this: I don't think that what you are doing is wrong, nor that you are doing it for the wrong reasons. You provide lots of value to this community. It's the seemingly biased presentation that sticks out: it often appears as if you were more concerned with sharing bits that people want to hear, instead of bits that could give them a balanced perspective.
 

theLaw

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People look up to you. By sharing studies and discussing them as a voice of authority

Haidut isn't looking for followers as far as I can tell.

If you choose to believe otherwise............that's your choice.

Why not blame Danny as well? After all, he is giving Haidut a platform to speak. Careful of that slippery slope.......
 

Prosper

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Haidut isn't looking for followers as far as I can tell.

If you choose to believe otherwise............that's your choice.

Why not blame Danny as well? After all, he is giving Haidut a platform to speak. Careful of that slippery slope.......
As you wish. I have nothing more to express.
 
D

danishispsychic

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Depends on how you look at it Prosper... I read that article and I was all.... NO!!!! too long. xx
 

theLaw

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I guess this criticism-culture has crept into the RPF. Oh well, at least we have the ignore feature.:D
 
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I’m always lurking here but need to speak out as Haidut has been a life saver for me. My family no longer wakes up to my 3am ranting - so distressing. The bacterial / endotoxemia/ brain inflammation has finally settled .I am always keen to learn more to help my children & grand children with their own health issues.My Dad was 99 when he went to hospital and didn’t leave ( after ten days there) He wasn’t that sick ( according to his lab results) Its best for older people to stay away from hospital else they will be euthanased-another factor for longevity. I should have given him Idealabs instead!
 

haidut

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I’m always lurking here but need to speak out as Haidut has been a life saver for me. My family no longer wakes up to my 3am ranting - so distressing. The bacterial / endotoxemia/ brain inflammation has finally settled .I am always keen to learn more to help my children & grand children with their own health issues.My Dad was 99 when he went to hospital and didn’t leave ( after ten days there) He wasn’t that sick ( according to his lab results) Its best for older people to stay away from hospital else they will be euthanased-another factor for longevity. I should have given him Idealabs instead!

Thank you! Thanks to all the other supporters as well @theLaw et al.
 

Blossom

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Haidut had always posted this way-even before idealabs existed.
 

raypeatclips

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Your topic headers are often provocative and overly optimistic. People look up to you. By sharing studies and discussing them as a voice of authority you receive indirect exposure and an appearance of increased legitimacy for your company and its products. Note this: I don't think that what you are doing is wrong, nor that you are doing it for the wrong reasons. You provide lots of value to this community. It's the seemingly biased presentation that sticks out: it often appears as if you were more concerned with sharing bits that people want to hear, instead of bits that could give them a balanced perspective.

Which idealabs product have you felt like purchasing after reading haiduts original post? Would you rather he not share articles he finds due to him now having founded idealabs?
 

ilikecats

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Oh snap! That’s my post he linked! (ilikecats sheds one manly tear in revelation of his own greatness :p). For the record my goals are as follows: Achieve biological immortality and become a perfect organism. I thought those weren’t unusual goals for an individual on this forum tbh. Threads like this make my mouth water.
 
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