High Temps And Pulse But Feeling Fatigued

lampofred

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My fatigue has been getting steadily worse over the months, and it feels as if I have burned through all my "life energy" by maintaining this high metabolism for years. I know Dr. Peat doesn't believe in the "rate-of-living" theory, so what could another explanation for the fatigue be?

I used to feel great at a high pulse and temperature, now I'm regularly in the high 98s for temperature and high 80s for pulse, currently at 99 for temperature and 92 for BPM because I ate a high-salt meal, but still no energy.

I notice that the most energetic people I know have low heart rates, low blood pressure.
 
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Where were you when you started. You know that I have been up to “normal” temperatures recently an am feeling shitty so want to know about your journey as there are similarities.
 

yerrag

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I wonder if your high pulse is simply coming from your body's natural physiology or if it's coming from having supplementation.
 

lampofred

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Where were you when you started. You know that I have been up to “normal” temperatures recently an am feeling shitty so want to know about your journey as there are similarities.

Warning, this is pretty long lol.

Way before Peat, when I was healthiest and felt the best my heart rate was in the high 50s and low 60s. But back then I played sports, so even with the low heart rate, I had strong circulation. My temperature was in the low 98s.

Right before starting Peat my temperature was in the mid 97s and my heart rate was in the high 60s, but this higher heart rate was due to poorer circulation, not better metabolism. Then immediately after starting my temperatures hovered in the low 98s and my heart rate was in the 70s due to the boost in metabolism. I felt almost as good then as I did way back when my heart rate was in the 50s, I was just energizer bunny because of the sugar and because I was finally getting adequate protein for the first time in my life. Since then my baseline heart rate has steadily been getting higher and my temperature, too, and my energy was good (but never as great as those first few months), until about a year ago when everything just stagnated.

It feels like slowly I have been getting more and sluggish, less aware, more apathetic, etc. even though my pulse and temperature have not gone down and have actually been going up as I'm depleting more and more PUFA from the body. I think a part of it has to do with the fact that I moved and the extremely high radiation in my new place is seriously screwing me and depleting my energy, but that's definitely not all of it... It feels like there is something missing. I think I need the adrenaline that comes with colder temperatures to function, the heat might be increasing serotonin too much. But Peat says adrenaline is toxic and that good energy is provided by high CO2, not catecholamines. But I'm not producing enough CO2 from thyroid even though my temps and pulse are high, too much lactic acid. So I'm just confused. What I think is that my circulation is not as good as it needs to be, and I don't have enough GABA, but I don't know how to improve circulation without aerobic exercise, which Peat says will just increase lactic acid.

In Traditional Chinese Medicine terms it feels like too much yang (metabolic stimulation) depleted all the yin (cholesterol, nutrients, GABA), and now because there is no yin, yang cannot be produced either, so there is a deficiency of both yin and yang.

I'm also getting verbose as hell.

EDIT: It's actually interesting that you're having similar issues because I was thinking of starting Buteyko. But now I guess I know that's not going to be helpful.
 
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Buteyko changed my life. Without it I’d be dead now. I recommend it very highly and in fact I think you’ll feel better immediately. Just doing bag breathing can help you, potentially right away.

I have high CO2 levels. When I fixed my health with Buteyko, ironically enough I got hypo thyroid (more than before probably) without knowing it. Cold hands and feet, OMG, I went through a year with icicles. My coach said that was “normal.”

There were some threads a few years back about that — how somehow Buteyko lowers thyroid function. Dr. Peat doesn’t seem to be aware of it. I’m a Buteyko coach and I know that it is a fact.

I think if you start you will feel a great benefit. I’d also do aerobic exercise if I were you, with mouth closed. Build up air hunger.

You always nose-breathe, correct? Do you wake up with your mouth dry? Are you mouth breathing during sleep?
 

Jon

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@lampofred you sound like you’re on a rebound.

Do you weight train or do any other exercise? If so how much? How long since you’ve taken time off?

What are your eating habits like? Do you ever under eat? Do you track calories and macros? Do you track your bodyweight?

You sound like you’re either incurring sns dominance or are rebounding from it.
 

Cirion

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What are your waking temperatures and pulses?

I have found through personal experience that temps and pulses you achieve during the day can be optimal and you still can be sick.

Waking temperatures and pulse are the true markers of metabolism. That's why these are the two #'s I use in my plots and analyses.

I notice that the most stressed/adrenaline fueled/cortisol fueled people I know have low heart rates, low blood pressure.

Fixed for ya =P

Also I have come to realize that in restoring metabolism, you're either all in, or not in. What I mean by that is - if you half heartedly go about restoring metabolism (not going for 98.6F waking temps and 85 bpm waking pulses) then you're gonna be constantly stuck in "Limbo"... still sick, and your body is trying to improve, but can't because it's still missing nutrients. My opinion that's why so many here stay sick for years. A commitment needs to made and followed through with full 100% gusto.
 
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What are your waking temperatures and pulses?

I have found through personal experience that temps and pulses you achieve during the day can be optimal and you still can be sick.

Waking temperatures and pulse are the true markers of metabolism. That's why these are the two #'s I use in my plots and analyses.



Fixed for ya =P

Also I have come to realize that in restoring metabolism, you're either all in, or not in. What I mean by that is - if you half heartedly go about restoring metabolism (not going for 98.6F waking temps and 85 bpm waking pulses) then you're gonna be constantly stuck in "Limbo"... still sick, and your body is trying to improve, but can't because it's still missing nutrients. My opinion that's why so many here stay sick for years. A commitment needs to made and followed through with full 100% gusto.

Very curious as to what specific suggestions you will make to @lampofred

Thank you!
 

Cirion

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Very curious as to what specific suggestions you will make to @lampofred

Thank you!

Well I won't lie as I still haven't found the exact blueprint for myself (So far my best 28 day avg waking temp is 98.2F, 0.4F less than I'd like), but so far, overall I've found virtually all of Peat's principles to hold true in bringing about improvements.

-- Minimize bad protein aminos (Fernstrom ratio)
-- Maximize carb/protein ratio
-- Eat very high sugar, low starch
-- Eat high SFA/PUFA, but a little on the lower side overall on fat
-- Very low total PUFA
-- Calcium/Phosphorus ratio
-- etc....


But honestly you guys like myself are veterans of these forums so none of this will be news to you I don't think, so I think then the actual important thing is I think it's necessary to start tracking detailed information to get well tbh, I'd be screwed if I didn't start my own database because the basics are simple, but the details are very devious and precise. For example - my data is pointing me towards a pretty precise 7-8 carb/protein ratio. Just saying "Oh have a high carb/protein ratio" is far too vague and requires further detail for your specific metabolism. I doubt yours or lamp's ideal ratio will be the exact same as mine. It could be more, it could be less... or maybe, it could be the same. I can't tell you that. Tracking data is such a major pain, but, for me, it's what it takes to get well, so it's what I will do.
 
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Well I won't lie as I still haven't found the exact blueprint for myself (So far my best 28 day avg waking temp is 98.2F, 0.4F less than I'd like), but so far, overall I've found virtually all of Peat's principles to hold true in bringing about improvements.

-- Minimize bad protein aminos (Fernstrom ratio)
-- Maximize carb/protein ratio
-- Eat very high sugar, low starch
-- Eat high SFA/PUFA, but a little on the lower side overall on fat
-- Very low total PUFA
-- Calcium/Phosphorus ratio
-- etc....


But honestly you guys like myself are veterans of these forums so none of this will be news to you I don't think, so I think then the actual important thing is I think it's necessary to start tracking detailed information to get well tbh, I'd be screwed if I didn't start my own database because the basics are simple, but the details are very devious and precise. For example - my data is pointing me towards a pretty precise 7-8 carb/protein ratio. Just saying "Oh have a high carb/protein ratio" is far too vague and requires further detail for your specific metabolism. I doubt yours or lamp's ideal ratio will be the exact same as mine. It could be more, it could be less... or maybe, it could be the same. I can't tell you that. Tracking data is such a major pain, but, for me, it's what it takes to get well, so it's what I will do.

thank you. I have been doing most of those things. Not paying attention to Fernstrom ratios but I'm not convinced on that.

I know for a fact that doing those things didn't raise my metabolism.

What did it for me was taking the right forms of thyroid in the right dosage.

I believe that I will be off this in a year and won't need it, but this is the only thing that has worked for me.
 

Cirion

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thank you. I have been doing most of those things. Not paying attention to Fernstrom ratios but I'm not convinced on that.

I know for a fact that doing those things didn't raise my metabolism.

What did it for me was taking the right forms of thyroid in the right dosage.

I believe that I will be off this in a year and won't need it, but this is the only thing that has worked for me.

Yeah without tracking data it's a crapshoot to be honest. I also spun my wheels even following the strategies talked about here until I actually got into the nitty gritty details.

Regarding Fernstrom ratio, this is from my personal database:

-- 28 day means 4 week (1 month) averaged data (to reduce the scatter of data and increase accuracy)

These plots made it clear to me that high fernstrom ratio decreases metabolism and increases weight gain.

upload_2019-6-21_11-17-13.png
 

lampofred

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Well I won't lie as I still haven't found the exact blueprint for myself (So far my best 28 day avg waking temp is 98.2F, 0.4F less than I'd like), but so far, overall I've found virtually all of Peat's principles to hold true in bringing about improvements.

-- Minimize bad protein aminos (Fernstrom ratio)
-- Maximize carb/protein ratio
-- Eat very high sugar, low starch
-- Eat high SFA/PUFA, but a little on the lower side overall on fat
-- Very low total PUFA
-- Calcium/Phosphorus ratio
-- etc....


But honestly you guys like myself are veterans of these forums so none of this will be news to you I don't think, so I think then the actual important thing is I think it's necessary to start tracking detailed information to get well tbh, I'd be screwed if I didn't start my own database because the basics are simple, but the details are very devious and precise. For example - my data is pointing me towards a pretty precise 7-8 carb/protein ratio. Just saying "Oh have a high carb/protein ratio" is far too vague and requires further detail for your specific metabolism. I doubt yours or lamp's ideal ratio will be the exact same as mine. It could be more, it could be less... or maybe, it could be the same. I can't tell you that. Tracking data is such a major pain, but, for me, it's what it takes to get well, so it's what I will do.

I really respect what you're doing with the careful data tracking, but what scares me the most about your approach (focusing only on higher temps and pulse rate) is that there is no guarantee you won't crash hard sometime in the future. It has been known for thousands of years that some foods raise your body temperature (such as beef and citrus fruits) and that others lower your body temperature (such as milk), and accordingly foods are categorized as either "warming" or "cooling." Warming foods are energizing in the short-run but depleting in the long-run, cooling foods are nourishing because they are replenishing and because they reduce energy expenditure. Ignoring all the corrupt, profit-motivated modern studies demonizing sugar, even in traditional medicine it was known that sugar is bad for you because it is a stimulant -- even though it makes you feel great at first, it burns through your nutrients faster than you can replace them. How do you know that's not happening to you? Looking at your dietary conditions, if you combine them all the main thing that you are really saying is that you should pound the fructose until you feel great. How do you know that your temps are rising because of actual nourishment and not because of the depleting stimulant effects of fructose?

I didn't really believe in the warming/cooling concept at first because Dr. Peat didn't seem to believe in it, but it seems like that is what has happened to me. Warming foods (mainly OJ) have burned through all of my reserves faster than I could replace them.
 

Cirion

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I really respect what you're doing with the careful data tracking, but what scares me the most about your approach (focusing only on higher temps and pulse rate) is that there is no guarantee you won't crash hard sometime in the future. It has been known for thousands of years that some foods raise your body temperature (such as beef and citrus fruits) and that others lower your body temperature (such as milk), and accordingly foods are categorized as either "warming" or "cooling." Warming foods are energizing in the short-run but depleting in the long-run, cooling foods are nourishing because they are replenishing and because they reduce energy expenditure. Ignoring all the corrupt, profit-motivated modern studies demonizing sugar, even in traditional medicine it was known that sugar is bad for you because it is a stimulant -- even though it makes you feel great at first, it burns through your nutrients faster than you can replace them. How do you know that's not happening to you? Looking at your dietary conditions, if you combine them at all the main thing that you are really saying is that you should pound the fructose until you feel great. How do you know that your temps are rising because of actual nourishment and not because of the depleting stimulant effects of fructose?

I didn't really believe in the warming/cooling concept at first because Dr. Peat didn't seem to believe in it, but it seems like that is what has happened to me. Warming foods (mainly OJ) have burned through all of my reserves faster than I could replace them.

The short answer to your question is this is why I look at waking temp and pulses. These are a much better gauge of metabolism than during the day while fed. Like you said, anyone can pound food and make their temps and pulses go up in the short term but some might hurt in the long term (as gauged by waking metabolism). Long term is in fact what I'm interested in (also the reason I'm plotting 28 day averages instead of on a day-to-day basis). Also, when both waking markers are high I generally also feel a lot better, well rested ETC. They are strongly connected to metabolism, mood, motivation IME.
 
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Not anyone can make their temperatures without thyroid. I could not. I am almost 60 years old, and that makes a difference.

I also lost 5 pounds of fat lately which is interesting...it coincides with body aches and also higher body temperatures.

I did measure my calories and other stuff for about a week @Cirion but no insights there.
 

lampofred

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The short answer to your question is this is why I look at waking temp and pulses. These are a much better gauge of metabolism than during the day while fed. Like you said, anyone can pound food and make their temps and pulses go up in the short term but some might hurt in the long term (as gauged by waking metabolism). Long term is in fact what I'm interested in (also the reason I'm plotting 28 day averages instead of on a day-to-day basis). Also, when both waking markers are high I generally also feel a lot better, well rested ETC. They are strongly connected to metabolism, mood, motivation IME.

I guess my question is how do you know waking temperatures are a reflection of resting metabolic rate due to good nourishment as opposed to a stimulated metabolic rate from a high fructose intake. For example, if you take amphetamine or caffeine before going to sleep, the stimulant effects will still be elevating your body temperature upon waking. I think it's likely that fructose has a similar long-lingering effect (but obviously to a milder degree).
 

Cirion

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Not anyone can make their temperatures without thyroid. I could not. I am almost 60 years old, and that makes a difference.

I also lost 5 pounds of fat lately which is interesting...it coincides with body aches and also higher body temperatures.

I did measure my calories and other stuff for about a week @Cirion but no insights there.

Takes a lot longer than a week to really make conclusions. As I mention, I didn't start to see any trends until I averaged data for 7,14, and now 28 days.

I have almost 3 months of data now and I still have not made 100% conclusions yet, but I'm getting there.
 

Cirion

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I guess my question is how do you know waking temperatures are a reflection of resting metabolic rate due to good nourishment as opposed to a stimulated metabolic rate from a high fructose intake. For example, if you take amphetamine or caffeine before going to sleep, the stimulant effects will still be elevating your body temperature upon waking. I think it's likely that fructose has a similar long-lingering effect (but obviously to a milder degree).

Fructose isn't the magic pill to solve ALL problems. It's a major factor, but no, you can't just be a fruitarian and get optimal health. Some protein and fats are necessary. I have not yet determined the optimal amount of each macro, it's a work in progress, but I know almost for a fact that at least some proteins and fats (the right kinds) are also important. I am not a fruitarian, in case that wasn't clear.

Anyway, you'll know it works if you: are feeling more well rested, higher libido, more motivation and energy, high temps and pulses, losing fat/bloat from the midsection, possibly gaining muscle, good with the ladies, laugh more, etc etc....
 

ilikecats

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@lampofred you dont think its from NoFap? Are you having any sex to fulfill your needs? Are you still "drowning" yourself in progesterone? If so there might lie your answer. Hans Selye noticed that if he gave rats an very high dose of progesterone it would put them into a completely comatose state- he thought they were dead.

@ecstatichamster through what mechanism does buteyko breathing cause hypothyroidism? CO2 opposes everything that inhibits thyroid function. If you were doing 2 hours of exercise a day like some coaches recommend there is your answer in regards to thyroid suppression. Lots of people trying to increase their CP (at all costs) make themselves hypothyroid because increasing CO2 production (via thyroid hormone) usually increases the rate of ventilation and lowering CO2 production can often lower the rate of ventilation .

Why Raising Metabolism May NOT Rise CO2; Effect Of Drugs And Temperature On CO2 Tolerance
 
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@ecstatichamster through what mechanism does buteyko breathing cause hypothyroidism? CO2 opposes everything that inhibits thyroid function. If you were doing 2 hours of exercise a day like some coaches recommend there is your answer in regards to thyroid suppression. Lots of people trying to increase their CP (at all costs) make themselves hypothyroid because increasing CO2 production (via thyroid hormone) usually increases the rate of ventilation and lowering CO2 production can often lower the rate of ventilation .

[/QUOTE]

no I wasn't. It's a fact and it's obvious when we work with students. I didn't recognize it for years. Buteyko increasing CO2 lowers thyroid.
 
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