High Temps And Pulse But Feeling Fatigued

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lampofred

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The fatigue is also a good sign as I’ve come to see sudden seemingly random fatigue as your body finally lowering your endorphins (stress opioids) and subsequently eliminating the numbing effect they have on ravaged nerves and tissues. This is where the vivid dreaming comes in, as this is imo a sign you’re beginning to “burn off” the excess that has been coursing your serum during your period of high stress. Physical, mental, and dietary stress can all cause heightened serotonin and the three combined are the perfect storm for total sns dominance. The dreaming and deep sleep combined with the low appetite tells me you’re on the tracj to recovery and this will most likely subside as long as you keep your stress levels low like you have apparently been doing :). I’ve felt all the same thing you do and recovered from it with good food, rest, and patience :)

This makes sense to me. The fatigue gets worse the healthier I feel, if that makes any sense, as if my body is more aware of the damage that has been done to it and is preventing me from doing any more damage. I'm pretty sure I had extremely high serotonin for most of my life before finding Peat, so lowering serotonin might be unmasking the pain it has been numbing. I started chewing nicotine gum last night, and it strongly felt like it was pushing everything in the right direction, but the pain it unmasked, I guess by lowering serotonin, was almost unbelievable. But I think the nicotine is healing me.

The only problem is that getting healthier is making me not be able to work hard at my job... But I already had plans to quit and move to avoid EMF, so at the end of the day it's just accelerating something I already was planning on doing. Guess I will just see where this Peat journey ultimately takes me.
 

Jon

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This makes sense to me. The fatigue gets worse the healthier I feel, if that makes any sense, as if my body is more aware of the damage that has been done to it and is preventing me from doing any more damage. I'm pretty sure I had extremely high serotonin for most of my life before finding Peat, so lowering serotonin might be unmasking the pain it has been numbing. I started chewing nicotine gum last night, and it strongly felt like it was pushing everything in the right direction, but the pain it unmasked, I guess by lowering serotonin, was almost unbelievable. But I think the nicotine is healing me.

The only problem is that getting healthier is making me not be able to work hard at my job... But I already had plans to quit and move to avoid EMF, so at the end of the day it's just accelerating something I already was planning on doing. Guess I will just see where this Peat journey ultimately takes me.

I had a similar experience with aspirin but it was so intense I haven’t used aspirin since lol. Slow and steady recovery is more sustainable than fast and hard. I felt so tanked it was all I could do to just sleep for 12hrs lol.
 
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lampofred

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Iron Therapy in Heart Failure: Ready for Primetime?

- ”The prevalence of ID in HF patients has been reported as being up to 50 %, even in patients without anaemia.”

- ”HF studies and in the most recent European Society of Cardiology HF guidelines, serum ferritin <100 μg/l has been used to diagnose absolute ID.”

- ”Functional ID is defined as a serum ferritin level of 100–300 μg/l and a transferrin saturation of <20 %”

- ”In a study of 157 HF patients by Okonko et al., the presence of ID was associated with an over threefold increase in mortality independent of haemoglobin.”

- ”Additionally, non-anaemic patients with ID had double the risk of mortality compared to anaemic patients without ID, suggesting that ID is an independent risk factor in congestive HF patients. These results were replicated in a multicentre international cohort of 1,506 HF patients.”

- ”ID has been shown to be independently associated with exercise capacity in HF patients. In a large study of 443 patients with HF who underwent cardiopulmonary exercise testing, patients with ID had lower peak oxygen consumption (VO2 max) and increased ventilator response to exercise compared to those without ID, representing a reduction in exercise capacity.[27] When combined with anaemia, the effects seem to be magnified.[28] However, absolute ID appears to be independently associated with reduced exercise capacity.”

- ”More recently a study of 1,197 patients, including 229 with HF with mid-range ejection fraction and 72 with HFpEF, found that ID was associated with lower exercise capacity and increased mortality regardless of left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF).[36] These results suggest that iron replacement may be of benefit in HFpEF and acute HF patients as well as HFrEF patients, and have led to the growing interest in iron replacement to improve outcomes.”

- ”Bolger et al. reported on 16 patients given IV iron sucrose for up to 17 days and found that there was an improvement in exercise capacity and some symptomatic benefit.[42] The first randomised trial of IV iron, performed in 40 patients by Tobili et al., reported a reduction in NT-proBNP in HF patients with ID anaemia and renal impairment, as well as improvements in LVEF, 6-minute walk test and symptoms.[43] These results were further extended to include non-anaemic patients by Okonko et al., who again found an improvement in exercise capacity and symptoms after 16 weeks of IV iron compared to placebo.[44]”

- ”Two meta-analyses of randomised trials of IV iron in HF patients with ID have been performed recently to summarise the results of these trials: a standard meta-analysis of five randomised trials including 509 patients and 342 controls,[48] and an individual patient data meta-analysis including 504 patients and 335 controls.[49] These studies have suggested a significant reduction in all-cause mortality, cardiovascular hospitalisation and HF hospitalisation with IV iron, as well as significant improvements NYHA class, 6-minute walk test and symptom questionnaire scores.”

Blood iron, glutathione, and micronutrient levels and the risk of oral cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

- ”These findings suggest that mild iron deficiency and low GSH levels, which are associated with increased oxidative stress.”

Effect of iron supplementation on oxidative stress and antioxidant status in iron-deficiency anemia. - PubMed - NCBI

- ”The extent of plasma lipid peroxidation was evaluated by measuring the levels of malondialdehyde and glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px), and the activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase in 63 patients with iron-deficiency anemia before and after 6 wk of iron supplementation and at the time when body iron stores are saturated. After 6 wk of iron supplementation, a significant decrease of oxidative stress was observed in the treated subjects relative to controls (p<0.05).

Iron Plays a Certain Role in Patterned Hair Loss

- ”A total 210 patients with FPHL (n = 113) and MPHL (n = 97) with 210 healthy controls were analyzed. Serum ferritin concentration (FC) was lower in patients with FPHL (49.27 ± 55.8 µg/L), compared with normal healthy women (77.89 ± 48.32 µg/L) (P < 0.001). Premenopausal FPHL patients turned out to show much lower serum ferritin than age/sex-matched controls (P < 0.001). Among MPHL patients, 22.7% of them showed serum FC lower than 70 µg/L, while no one had serum FC lower 70 µg/L in healthy age matched males. These results suggest that iron may play a certain role especially in premenopausal FPHL. The initial screening of iron status could be of help for hair loss patients.”

Dangers of High or Low Ferritin Levels & Normal Ranges - SelfHacked

- ”Low Ferritin Causes ADHD
Iron is associated with dopamine metabolism, and low iron levels might be associated with more significant impairment in dopamine function in subjects with ADHD [41].”

- ”Subclinical hypothyroidism is associated with iron-deficiency anemia and lower ferritin levels ”

- ”Statistical analyses show that ferritin levels below 50 ng/ml caused a 6.5-fold increased risk for fibromyalgia.”

Anemia and risk of dementia in older adults: Findings from the Health ABC study


- ”The other study found participants with anemia had a 60% increased hazard for developing Alzheimer disease dementia over 3.3 years among 881 older adults.”

Iron deficiency alters expression of genes implicated in Alzheimer disease pathogenesis. - PubMed - NCBI

- ”The non-anemic hippocampal iron-deficient mouse demonstrated upregulation of all 7 genes in this pathway from P5 to P25. Our results suggest a role for neonatal iron deficiency in dysregulation of genes that may set the stage for long-term neurodegenerative disease and that this may occur through a histone modification mechanism.”

These are all association studies. IMO the only way to actually refute Dr. Peat is to refer to his biological explanation as to why iron is bad for you and explain why that is wrong, which is not going to be as simple as just finding studies on Google.

I respect your effort and agree that no one person is 100% infallible (for example, I personally disagree with Dr. Peat that salt is good for you ad libitum), but Dr. Peat is an extremely intelligent person who has done decades of research, and proving him wrong will require much more effort and research than taking several minutes to do few searches on Google for studies.
 
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lampofred

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I had a similar experience with aspirin but it was so intense I haven’t used aspirin since lol. Slow and steady recovery is more sustainable than fast and hard. I felt so tanked it was all I could do to just sleep for 12hrs lol.

Yeah I think caffeine, aspirin, and nicotine help to accelerate the healing of the damage caused by operating on stress hormones instead of thyroid, and in doing so they unmask the pain that has been suppressed by serotonin/endorphins.
 
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lampofred

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Woah there, iron is needed, and is healthy by definition because it is an essential trace mineral, not too mention the most abundant trace mineral in humans, zinc being 2nd. And Peat is still right, iron accumulates in age. Except it doesnt happen in everyone. Some may grow older and older keeping large stores of iron that end up causing damage, yet there are many more that are chronically anemic because of digestive issues. It all depends on your sources of food, iron from meat is not like fortified iron in grains and cereals.

Non-heme iron has terrible absorption rate while those with intestinal damage may not be able to absorb any non-heme iron. You are seriously trying to suggest that the elderly in retirement homes have iron overload? Or that all 50 year old men and women I am seeing daily are iron overloaded or even iron sufficient? I've seen the elderly in the retirement homes and I've seen what they eat. Salads and plants mostly, barely anything of substance.

Digestion gets worse generally the older you get, reducing absorption of most nutrients, including iron. Most of the elderly I've seen need a good sized sirloin, not salad and fruit juice. Most of the middle aged people I know have very low iron diets and generally low meat diets, lack of animal foods. Most are either overweight/obese and lethargic/fatigue/low energy or underweight and sickly. Iron deficiency is the most common nutrition deficiency in the world. Sure you can argue that the WHO is full of ***t about that, then you would really be sticking your head in the sand.

Doesnt mean we should be supplementing iron so readily. Its better obtained by having adequate vitamin D levels(which is also one of the more common deficiencies in the world) to reduce hepcidin as well as increasing intake of red meat. Vitamin C is also supposed to help. There is a reason the RDA is 8mg when we only excrete around 1mg a day(more if your a women, as well as there being many factors that increase iron loss). Athletes or anyone that does intense exercise regularly will lose more iron because of sweating and damage to GI tract caused by exercise as well as the fact that red blood cells break down faster in those who exercise.

I still recall this one year of my life, I was 19. Doing heavy lifting workouts to pack on muscle(which I did, lots of) and a little sprinting each week. My meat consumption was virtually entirely lean chicken, no source of heme iron at all, and starches like potatoes and rice as well as soda, fruit juice and dairy. My endurance, stamina(not just for exercise but daily life) slowly got worse after 6 months into the year.

I became very pale(I am usually very light colored, but got even more so) I was literally falling apart slowly to the point where I ended up so weak near the end of the year that I was stuck on my couch for literally an entire week, only moving to eat and use the bathroom, pure torture. Couldnt even sit up to watch TV had to lay down. I figured out that it was because I switched out red meat for chicken for so long I ended up anemic and my lab test at the doc confirmed it. It didnt even take me a year to have issues with iron because of how hard I worked out.

Like I said, Peat can be right and it doesnt necessarily mean beefcake is wrong or that all pro-iron info is propaganda, to think that is to be paranoid and just plain unscientific. We cant just ignore the fact that iron deficiency does happen because Peat says we accumulate iron as we age as if this is a 100% true statement for everyone. It is incredibly easy to become iron deficient and very hard to recover from it because of the fact that iron absorption is incredibly low even with heme-iron.

I generally trust Peat's judgement and his experience and plethora of knowledge, but I always try to verify what he says regardless, including when it came to iron. I did not find that his strict anti-iron belief was justified as I researched all the literature I could on iron.

But I don't think Peat has said to avoid iron as he says to avoid PUFA. He recommends eating liver, oysters, or red meat+gelatin once or twice a week as a safe way to give you the iron you need for essential processes. What he does say is to avoid iron in fortified food or supplement form because that is excess that will cause oxidant damage and accelerated aging. What Beefcake seems to be saying on the other hand is to directly supplement iron if you are tired which is why ecstatichamster is disagreeing with him.
 

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But I don't think Peat has said to avoid iron as he says to avoid PUFA. He recommends eating liver, oysters, or red meat+gelatin once or twice a week as a safe way to give you the iron you need for essential processes. What he does say is to avoid iron in fortified food or supplement form because that is excess that will cause oxidant damage and accelerated aging. What Beefcake seems to be saying on the other hand is to directly supplement iron if you are tired which is why ecstatichamster is disagreeing with him.

I have not said anywhere to directly supplement iron. Please quote that in that case. What I said if you display a set of symptoms that could likely be related to insufficient iron then you should investigate that. In my opinion your symptoms sound very much like iron deficiency but you said you cleared that already. I have not said anything else except quoted studies that does show that normal ferritin could be in the 50-120 zone. And if you look at the studies i quoted most people that have 50 or lower tend to display some signs of lack of iron. How you want to increase those levels are completely up to you. Ray has not even mentioned what he thinks is a healthy level of ferritin but likely people assume on the lower end. I think on a scale from 30-300 50-100 does not seem excessive..
 
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I have not said anywhere to directly supplement iron. Please quote that in that case. What I said if you display a set of symptoms that could likely be related to insufficient iron then you should investigate that. In my opinion your symptoms sound very much like iron deficiency but you said you cleared that already. I have not said anything else except quoted studies that does show that normal ferritin could be in the 50-120 zone. And if you look at the studies i quoted most people that have 50 or lower tend to display some signs of lack of iron. How you want to increase those levels are completely up to you. Ray has not even mentioned what he thinks is a healthy level of ferritin but likely people assume on the lower end. I think on a scale from 30-300 50-100 does not seem excessive..

We have seen how vitamin A can increase iron stores without supplementation. There is iron in the body that can be utilized and vitamin A would be best tried before iron supplements

The Influence of Vitamin A Supplementation on Iron Status

-
 
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lampofred

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I have not said anywhere to directly supplement iron. Please quote that in that case. What I said if you display a set of symptoms that could likely be related to insufficient iron then you should investigate that. In my opinion your symptoms sound very much like iron deficiency but you said you cleared that already. I have not said anything else except quoted studies that does show that normal ferritin could be in the 50-120 zone. And if you look at the studies i quoted most people that have 50 or lower tend to display some signs of lack of iron. How you want to increase those levels are completely up to you. Ray has not even mentioned what he thinks is a healthy level of ferritin but likely people assume on the lower end. I think on a scale from 30-300 50-100 does not seem excessive..

Ok, sorry I didn't understand what you were saying. But in my defense, when you write stuff like this

For those saying iron is an oxidant iron supplementation actually reversed oxidative stress in people with low iron.

My point is not that all people should supplement iron as some people do have hemochromatosis and should activly take precautions to limit iron. But for other normal people this is likely not a problem. And keeping iron at the upper 100s seem to be the area most associated with lowest complications. There overall more markers needed to evaluate iron status than ferritin but I feel the iron dangers is very overstated.

and when you phase your posts in a way that seems like you are arguing against Dr. Peat (who never recommended avoiding iron-rich foods like liver, oysters, red meat with gelatin, and only recommends avoiding iron fortified foods and iron supplementation) it strongly sounds like you are recommending iron supplementation.
 

redsun

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But I don't think Peat has said to avoid iron as he says to avoid PUFA. He recommends eating liver, oysters, or red meat+gelatin once or twice a week as a safe way to give you the iron you need for essential processes. What he does say is to avoid iron in fortified food or supplement form because that is excess that will cause oxidant damage and accelerated aging. What Beefcake seems to be saying on the other hand is to directly supplement iron if you are tired which is why ecstatichamster is disagreeing with him.

Well yes supplemental iron should be avoided at all cost, if an iron deficiency is not severe, changing the diet will eventually correct it but if someone has a chronic iron deficiency that has not been dealt with for a long time, an iron rich diet will not work, at least, it will take too long to work. A person basically has 2 options if they want to deal with a severe iron deficiency as swift as possible.

Supplement high doses of iron like iron glycinate(high dosing is necessary which will disrupt the gut big time while taking it as it will feed bacteria and this can exacerbate serotonin, endotoxin, etc during the time of supplementing) or drink animal blood(which many may not like the idea of doing, all though it works best), which is not only very high in iron, but has every nutrient in it. There is also more pricey blood derived heme iron supplements which are better. Heme-iron does not feed bacteria like non heme iron as it is protected by proteins.

It is advised always to only supplement iron when blood tests show iron deficiency and supplementation is recommended by the GP. It may temporarily cause problems with the gut if its non heme, but fixing the iron deficiency outweighs the temporary gut disturbance.
 

Beefcake

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Ok, sorry I didn't understand what you were saying. But in my defense, when you write stuff like this



and when you phase your posts in a way that seems like you are arguing against Dr. Peat (who never recommended avoiding iron-rich foods like liver, oysters, red meat with gelatin, and only recommends avoiding iron fortified foods and iron supplementation) it strongly sounds like you are recommending iron supplementation.

Im trying to make a powerful point to make people rethink and at least try to investigate if that is the case. Im not here trying to dissprove peat. Thats not my intention. I just know that other people had similair symptoms and problems like you and have benefited from boosting their iron stores. So my intention is only to try and help you. But when I get hammered with people saying im nuts you sorta go into a defensive state aswell and try to dissprove that everything might not always be the way it seems to be. Sorry aswell. My intention originally was just to try and help. Im not trying to discredit peat because i acknowledge his work and agree 100% with everything he says at least theory wise that I can sure say I do understand his reasoning and the science/studies he quotes. Its just that there many other studies with conflicting data on quite a few subjects. If they are influenced by big pharma or not I cant tell but then that would kind of discredit a lot of studies. Its easy to say that one study that goes inline with your beliefs are real and another is fake. Im just here to learn thats all. And questioning things is in my opinion beat way to develop.
 
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Dr. Peat has the perspective of 100 years of science. That is why he is always so keen on the history of points he makes — it is critical to see where “we” are at and how we got here. That shows why so many studies are NOT done, and others ARE. You can’t just use studies. I always point out that 17 studies showed that HRT was good for women using fake drug company progesterone analogs...until the first really good study came out and physicians finally told their female patients to STOP taking HRT. Decades of studies were wrong.

I read studies for hours at a time and I know that you can’t just look at studies unless you are prepared to read the whole study, and also understand the context.

Most studies are bogus and discredited. Only perhaps 2% are worthy.
 

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Dr. Peat has the perspective of 100 years of science. That is why he is always so keen on the history of points he makes — it is critical to see where “we” are at and how we got here. That shows why so many studies are NOT done, and others ARE. You can’t just use studies. I always point out that 17 studies showed that HRT was good for women using fake drug company progesterone analogs...until the first really good study came out and physicians finally told their female patients to STOP taking HRT. Decades of studies were wrong.

I read studies for hours at a time and I know that you can’t just look at studies unless you are prepared to read the whole study, and also understand the context.

Most studies are bogus and discredited. Only perhaps 2% are worthy.

Or they are so subjective to context they may not apply lol. Like you said, the studies have to be read and understood. The latter half is where many of us lack.
 

mimmo123

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My fatigue has been getting steadily worse over the months, and it feels as if I have burned through all my "life energy" by maintaining this high metabolism for years. I know Dr. Peat doesn't believe in the "rate-of-living" theory, so what could another explanation for the fatigue be?

I used to feel great at a high pulse and temperature, now I'm regularly in the high 98s for temperature and high 80s for pulse, currently at 99 for temperature and 92 for BPM because I ate a high-salt meal, but still no energy.

I notice that the most energetic people I know have low heart rates, low blood pressure.

just because your temp is high at 99 doesn't mean you have a high metabolism
You actually need to get a capnometer to test your co2 and test it several times during the day to get an average theres ones that will track it for you while you sleep as well and lactate meter would be useful as well and checking your oxygen consumption there are several places you can go and have this checked.
it will take you years to actually change your metabolism or co2 set point it is not an easy thing to do and for pufa you will need to take a mead acid test to see if your depleted and that takes 4+ years of avoiding it eating 2 grams or 4 grams is not avoiding it

If you were truly at a high metabolism you would have an abundance of useful energy
 
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lampofred

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just because your temp is high at 99 doesn't mean you have a high metabolism
You actually need to get a capnometer to test your co2 and test it several times during the day to get an average theres ones that will track it for you while you sleep as well and lactate meter would be useful as well and checking your oxygen consumption there are several places you can go and have this checked.
it will take you years to actually change your metabolism or co2 set point it is not an easy thing to do and for pufa you will need to take a mead acid test to see if your depleted and that takes 4+ years of avoiding it eating 2 grams or 4 grams is not avoiding it

If you were truly at a high metabolism you would have an abundance of useful energy

I completely agree. I have a high pulse and temperature, but all of my glucose is going to lactic acid instead of CO2. I'm sure my CO2 levels are abysmal.

Maybe I have to do what @tca300 did and really go hardcore. Fruits, skim milk, and hydrogenated coconut oil. No cheese, whole milk, butter, eggs, or any other source of fat.
 
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mimmo123

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you dont have to go extreme to see benefits. But measuring things is useful because you can see whats going on and do something about it to get out of the stress
example I was taking t3 temps really good pulse at 80 but I felt like crap like I was going to pass out no energy at all and my movements were slow. My systolic was low like 100 I Immediately put like a tablespoon of salt in a glass of orange juice and it brought me right back up again and felt great instantly. My calcium levels could of gone to high and caused volume depletion I was drinking like a gallon of milk at that time and some bicarb

A lot of people are deplete in magnesium need to take that stuff everyday it's one of the main things that regulates calcium and k2
 

ilikecats

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@mimmo123 good stuff! Do we have a metabolic all-star in our midst? "this happened to me years ago I was drinking a gallon of milk for like 4 years" woah, very cool (that you've been at it that long). I'm diggin through your old posts and takin notes. Is there a magnesium supplement that you think its up to snuff?

EDIT:i believe I found the answer- magnoil
 
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Vinny

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You know what, @Rand56, I like your suggestion. It's easy to test and low risk. I took 1000mg of thiamine just now. Why not?
I took today 1200 mg of thiamine, divided in 4 doses.
Felt a little bit drowsy and had a light headache.
Tomorrow, depending how I feel, will take the same dose or will increase. We`ll see what happens...
 

mimmo123

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@mimmo123 good stuff! Do we have a metabolic all-star in our midst? "this happened to me years ago I was drinking a gallon of milk for like 4 years" woah, very cool (that you've been at it that long). I'm diggin through your old posts and takin notes. Is there a magnesium supplement that you think its up to snuff?

EDIT:i believe I found the answer- magnoil

haha nahh not really, Yes magnoil is a miracle I use that and Ace magnesium oil on my skin and occasionally Epsom salt baths but not often
Magnesium Oil Directions and Info – ACE version Magnesium Oil by Robert von Sarbacher
 
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I took today 1200 mg of thiamine, divided in 4 doses.
Felt a little bit drowsy and had a light headache.
Tomorrow, depending how I feel, will take the same dose or will increase. We`ll see what happens...

I’ve taken 2000mg today and yesterday. Didn’t notice an effect.
 

redsun

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I’ve taken 2000mg today and yesterday. Didn’t notice an effect.

I have never take 2g in a day but I feel like if I did I would legitimately have an LSD trip. Surprised you feel nothing. You should at least have increased CO2, if you had slightly blocked nostrils or completely blocked its supposed to clear which is a direct cause of CO2.

I also get a strong improvement in memory and cognition that improves after daily administration and reduces fatigue considerably. Its supposed to be a nootropic past 300mg, 2g should have given you improved brain function. You might just need daily administration or could be lack of mangesium/magnesium retention.
 

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