High Temps And Pulse But Feeling Fatigued

baccheion

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Jun 25, 2017
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What symptoms are the ones bothering you and seem to be most dominant? A severe fatigue, low libido, lack of motivation?
Do you have shortness of breath?
Do you have faster heart beat when you go from sitting to standing?
How is your appetite for example when you wake up are you hungry so you need to eat right away or no hunger for a couple of hours?
The fatigue is it worse in morning or the evening or is it just constant?
How many hours of sleep do you get? Do you consider it excessive sleeping? Do you wake up a lot during night?
Do you dream?
The fatigue is it in the body or is it in your head? Do you feel the fatigue in your forehead if you know what I mean?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Bump do you have restless legs when you sit in front of a computer or similair? If so is this worse when you feel extra tired?
I have some of these. What does it mean?

Fatigue (not severe; constant), no libido, no motivation, had shortness of breath when younger, not hungry for a while (tend to have lower appetite), get hungry in the evenings quickly after second meal, difficulty sleeping more than 4 hours, now waking up a lot, never remember my dreams (they also tend to be dim and hard to see), physical dragging (both body and head), and I shake my legs when in bed trying to get to sleep.
 

Beefcake

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Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
290
I have some of these. What does it mean?

Fatigue (not severe; constant), no libido, no motivation, had shortness of breath when younger, not hungry for a while (tend to have lower appetite), get hungry in the evenings quickly after second meal, difficulty sleeping more than 4 hours, now waking up a lot, never remember my dreams (they also tend to be dim and hard to see), physical dragging (both body and head), and I shake my legs when in bed trying to get to sleep.

It means low dopamine most likely from sub optimal iron. Have you had iron blood work done? Pretty sure if you experience all those symptoms you are sub optimal iron. If you experience problems even while you following a the peat protocol its likely something unpeaty is causing it. Having low iron constantly through out life is very unhealthy if you look at research they have much higher risk for heart failure (even more so than high iron) and ahlzeimers. I feel many peopl here struggle with similair problems low libido and fatigue. Just easier to diagnose it just knowing these other more minor symptoms that tend to be more iron deficiency tell signs.
 
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OP
L

lampofred

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Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,244
What symptoms are the ones bothering you and seem to be most dominant? A severe fatigue, low libido, lack of motivation?
Do you have shortness of breath?
Do you have faster heart beat when you go from sitting to standing?
How is your appetite for example when you wake up are you hungry so you need to eat right away or no hunger for a couple of hours?
The fatigue is it worse in morning or the evening or is it just constant?
How many hours of sleep do you get? Do you consider it excessive sleeping? Do you wake up a lot during night?
Do you dream?
The fatigue is it in the body or is it in your head? Do you feel the fatigue in your forehead if you know what I mean?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Bump do you have restless legs when you sit in front of a computer or similair? If so is this worse when you feel extra tired?

Fatigue is the main problem
No shortness of breath
No
Poor appetite but I know why
Worse in the morning but I know why
I sleep a lot now but I used to not need much sleep. I don't wake up at all. I know why I need so much more sleep now
I dream too much
I don't really understand what you mean, but my entire body feels fatigued. Like my gas tank is at E.
No restless legs.

For all the "I know why" the common answer is that I think I have too much serotonin and too much acetylcholine due to a lack of GABA. I asked Dr. Peat about this and he said to make sure I am getting all trace minerals and vitamins and to avoid strong EMF, in addition to his more general recommendations of avoiding salt restriction, keeping calcium higher than phosphate, and checking temps/pulse rate and he also mentioned to check blood pressure.

I think avoiding EMF will be the biggest game changer, I need to get serious about switching jobs and moving because no amount of diet/supplementation has been able to make me completely immune to high radiation exposure.

I think a lot of people who feel better after supplementing iron might actually be deficient in gelatin. Gelatin increases iron use but doesn't actually contain iron, so it gives you the benefit of iron supplementation without the destructive oxidizing effect of actually adding more iron to your body.
 
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Beefcake

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Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
290
Fatigue is the main problem
No shortness of breath
No
Poor appetite but I know why
Worse in the morning but I know why
I sleep a lot now but I used to not need much sleep. I don't wake up at all. I know why I need so much more sleep now
I dream too much
I don't really understand what you mean, but my entire body feels fatigued. Like my gas tank is at E.
No restless legs.

For all the "I know why" the common answer is that I think I have too much serotonin and too much acetylcholine due to a lack of GABA. I asked Dr. Peat about this and he said to make sure I am getting all trace minerals and vitamins and to avoid strong EMF, in addition to his more general recommendations of avoiding salt restriction, keeping calcium higher than phosphate, and checking temps/pulse rate and he also mentioned to check blood pressure.

I think avoiding EMF will be the biggest game changer, I need to get serious about switching jobs and moving because no amount of diet/supplementation has been able to make me completely immune to high radiation exposure.

I think a lot of people who feel better after supplementing iron might actually be deficient in gelatin. Gelatin increases iron use but doesn't actually contain iron, so it gives you the benefit of iron supplementation without the destructive oxidizing effect of actually adding more iron to your body.

In my opinion symptoms you display seem very likely to be a lack of iron. Usually peat people use both aspirin, vitamin E and tend to do things that reduce or avoid iron. Then we have the hemochromatosis guys saying that ferritin should be kept at 30 when theres several studies showing heart failure is 2-3 times more likely if a person has lower than 30 and an increased risk between 30-100. Another example is hair loss. People with ferritin lower than 70 is strongly related to hair loss. The iron dangers in my opinion seems fairly over dramatized. In heart failure having lower ferritin was more associated with heart failure than having even 300-500 in ferritin. 100-300 according to study had no association at all. Most men here are hovering around 30-100 and the men on the lower end of that spectrum in my opinion would benefit from getting those numbers up at least to the higher end.

For those saying iron is an oxidant iron supplementation actually reversed oxidative stress in people with low iron.

Effect of iron supplementation on oxidative stress and antioxidant status in iron-deficiency anemia. - PubMed - NCBI

Cytochrome C oxidase which is one of the most crucial proteins in humans is heavily dependent on iron.

Many of the other strongest antioxidant enzymes in the body are very dependent of iron like gluthathione, SOD and ceruloplasmin.

My point is not that all people should supplement iron as some people do have hemochromatosis and should activly take precautions to limit iron. But for other normal people this is likely not a problem. And keeping iron at the upper 100s seem to be the area most associated with lowest complications. There overall more markers needed to evaluate iron status than ferritin but I feel the iron dangers is very overstated.
 
Joined
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Messages
10,501
In my opinion symptoms you display seem very likely to be a lack of iron. Usually peat people use both aspirin, vitamin E and tend to do things that reduce or avoid iron. Then we have the hemochromatosis guys saying that ferritin should be kept at 30 when theres several studies showing heart failure is 2-3 times more likely if a person has lower than 30 and an increased risk between 30-100. Another example is hair loss. People with ferritin lower than 70 is strongly related to hair loss. The iron dangers in my opinion seems fairly over dramatized. In heart failure having lower ferritin was more associated with heart failure than having even 300-500 in ferritin. 100-300 according to study had no association at all. Most men here are hovering around 30-100 and the men on the lower end of that spectrum in my opinion would benefit from getting those numbers up at least to the higher end.

For those saying iron is an oxidant iron supplementation actually reversed oxidative stress in people with low iron.

Effect of iron supplementation on oxidative stress and antioxidant status in iron-deficiency anemia. - PubMed - NCBI

Cytochrome C oxidase which is one of the most crucial proteins in humans is heavily dependent on iron.

Many of the other strongest antioxidant enzymes in the body are very dependent of iron like gluthathione, SOD and ceruloplasmin.

My point is not that all people should supplement iron as some people do have hemochromatosis and should activly take precautions to limit iron. But for other normal people this is likely not a problem. And keeping iron at the upper 100s seem to be the area most associated with lowest complications. There overall more markers needed to evaluate iron status than ferritin but I feel the iron dangers is very overstated.

I think you are very wrong. Did you read this?
Iron's Dangers
 

Beefcake

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Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
290
I think you are very wrong. Did you read this?
Iron's Dangers

Iron Therapy in Heart Failure: Ready for Primetime?

- ”The prevalence of ID in HF patients has been reported as being up to 50 %, even in patients without anaemia.”

- ”HF studies and in the most recent European Society of Cardiology HF guidelines, serum ferritin <100 μg/l has been used to diagnose absolute ID.”

- ”Functional ID is defined as a serum ferritin level of 100–300 μg/l and a transferrin saturation of <20 %”

- ”In a study of 157 HF patients by Okonko et al., the presence of ID was associated with an over threefold increase in mortality independent of haemoglobin.”

- ”Additionally, non-anaemic patients with ID had double the risk of mortality compared to anaemic patients without ID, suggesting that ID is an independent risk factor in congestive HF patients. These results were replicated in a multicentre international cohort of 1,506 HF patients.”

- ”ID has been shown to be independently associated with exercise capacity in HF patients. In a large study of 443 patients with HF who underwent cardiopulmonary exercise testing, patients with ID had lower peak oxygen consumption (VO2 max) and increased ventilator response to exercise compared to those without ID, representing a reduction in exercise capacity.[27] When combined with anaemia, the effects seem to be magnified.[28] However, absolute ID appears to be independently associated with reduced exercise capacity.”

- ”More recently a study of 1,197 patients, including 229 with HF with mid-range ejection fraction and 72 with HFpEF, found that ID was associated with lower exercise capacity and increased mortality regardless of left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF).[36] These results suggest that iron replacement may be of benefit in HFpEF and acute HF patients as well as HFrEF patients, and have led to the growing interest in iron replacement to improve outcomes.”

- ”Bolger et al. reported on 16 patients given IV iron sucrose for up to 17 days and found that there was an improvement in exercise capacity and some symptomatic benefit.[42] The first randomised trial of IV iron, performed in 40 patients by Tobili et al., reported a reduction in NT-proBNP in HF patients with ID anaemia and renal impairment, as well as improvements in LVEF, 6-minute walk test and symptoms.[43] These results were further extended to include non-anaemic patients by Okonko et al., who again found an improvement in exercise capacity and symptoms after 16 weeks of IV iron compared to placebo.[44]”

- ”Two meta-analyses of randomised trials of IV iron in HF patients with ID have been performed recently to summarise the results of these trials: a standard meta-analysis of five randomised trials including 509 patients and 342 controls,[48] and an individual patient data meta-analysis including 504 patients and 335 controls.[49] These studies have suggested a significant reduction in all-cause mortality, cardiovascular hospitalisation and HF hospitalisation with IV iron, as well as significant improvements NYHA class, 6-minute walk test and symptom questionnaire scores.”

Blood iron, glutathione, and micronutrient levels and the risk of oral cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

- ”These findings suggest that mild iron deficiency and low GSH levels, which are associated with increased oxidative stress.”

Effect of iron supplementation on oxidative stress and antioxidant status in iron-deficiency anemia. - PubMed - NCBI

- ”The extent of plasma lipid peroxidation was evaluated by measuring the levels of malondialdehyde and glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px), and the activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase in 63 patients with iron-deficiency anemia before and after 6 wk of iron supplementation and at the time when body iron stores are saturated. After 6 wk of iron supplementation, a significant decrease of oxidative stress was observed in the treated subjects relative to controls (p<0.05).

Iron Plays a Certain Role in Patterned Hair Loss

- ”A total 210 patients with FPHL (n = 113) and MPHL (n = 97) with 210 healthy controls were analyzed. Serum ferritin concentration (FC) was lower in patients with FPHL (49.27 ± 55.8 µg/L), compared with normal healthy women (77.89 ± 48.32 µg/L) (P < 0.001). Premenopausal FPHL patients turned out to show much lower serum ferritin than age/sex-matched controls (P < 0.001). Among MPHL patients, 22.7% of them showed serum FC lower than 70 µg/L, while no one had serum FC lower 70 µg/L in healthy age matched males. These results suggest that iron may play a certain role especially in premenopausal FPHL. The initial screening of iron status could be of help for hair loss patients.”

Dangers of High or Low Ferritin Levels & Normal Ranges - SelfHacked

- ”Low Ferritin Causes ADHD
Iron is associated with dopamine metabolism, and low iron levels might be associated with more significant impairment in dopamine function in subjects with ADHD [41].”

- ”Subclinical hypothyroidism is associated with iron-deficiency anemia and lower ferritin levels ”

- ”Statistical analyses show that ferritin levels below 50 ng/ml caused a 6.5-fold increased risk for fibromyalgia.”

Anemia and risk of dementia in older adults: Findings from the Health ABC study


- ”The other study found participants with anemia had a 60% increased hazard for developing Alzheimer disease dementia over 3.3 years among 881 older adults.”

Iron deficiency alters expression of genes implicated in Alzheimer disease pathogenesis. - PubMed - NCBI

- ”The non-anemic hippocampal iron-deficient mouse demonstrated upregulation of all 7 genes in this pathway from P5 to P25. Our results suggest a role for neonatal iron deficiency in dysregulation of genes that may set the stage for long-term neurodegenerative disease and that this may occur through a histone modification mechanism.”
 

Beefcake

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Messages
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douglas is that you? ‍♂️

Nah just dont buy some of peats ideas. I love what he have done and does but looking at the evidence things are not so black and white regarding many of peats ideas like estrogen, iron, omega 3, nitric oxide, cortisol and serotonin. Too much of any of these things are bad so is too much of many other things. Doesnt mean they dont have any biological value. I dont know exactly what I think or believe but I personally like to be skeptical and look at all the evidence. An example is that I feel like crap when I get low estrogen. eNos and nNos vs iNos etc... and same goes with iron and maybe even omega 3. Just because they are oxidative and harmful in excess does not mean they are ultimately harmful. Theres just so much conflicting data. My point is everyone is different and some people have problems with excess and some with deficiency thats why both of them even exist in the first place. ‍♂️
 

Beefcake

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Messages
290
douglas is that you? ‍♂️

Another example of what I mean is this study

Association between treatment for erectile dysfunction and death or cardiovascular outcomes after myocardial infarction

Results Forty-three thousand one hundred and forty-five men with mean age 64 (±10) years were included, of whom 7.1% had ED medication dispensed during a mean 3.3 years (141 739 person-years) of follow-up. Men with, compared with those without treatment for ED, had a 33% lower mortality (adjusted HR 0.67 (95%CI 0.55 to 0.81)), and 40% lower risk of hospitalisation for heart failure (HR 0.60 (95% CI 0.44 to 0.82)). There was no association between treatment with alprostadil and mortality. The adjusted risk of death in men with 1, 2–5 and >5 dispensed prescriptions of phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors was reduced by 34% (HR 0.66 (95% CI 0.38 to 1.15), 53% (HR 0.47 (95% CI 0.26 to 0.87) and 81% (HR 0.19 (95% CI 0.08 to 0.45), respectively, when compared with alprostadil treatment.

43 145 men. Thats a rather large study. Those who was on erectile dysfunction drugs was healthier.

Conclusions Treatment for ED after a first MI was associated with a reduced mortality and heart failure hospitalisation. Only men treated with phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors had a reduced risk, which appeared to be dose-dependent.

How can anyone still say that nitric oxide is not beneficial and that PDE-5 inhibitors are bad.
 
Joined
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Messages
10,501
PDE5 inhibitors are in the cycle of Big Pharma when they can do no wrong. You have to know what they do and how they do it to realize that the studies are bull****.

Same with iron. You need an explanatory theory, not just a study.

I don’t know why you are here @Beefcake. You think iron and omega 3 are healthy. PDE5 inhibitors are good. You don’t appear to believe Dr. Peat’s research. His research has a perspective of 100 or 150 years of science and is not trendy study baloney.

I would believe Dr. Peat’s work, not your findings. I realize that isn’t an argument. It is not. But honestly the science is very complicated and well beyond my abilities to understand, so I choose Dr. Peat and a lot of the wonderful people here, not you and your theories. Sorry. Again, I know that isn’t an argument but neither is posting some studies. Without perspective, these studies are bunk. One of your iron studies is for people with anemia, and of COURSE they may need iron. They may only need liver, actually, but good luck finding a study where they give anemic people liver.

Also infections tend to drive down the appearance of iron in our bodies. The iron stores are just as high but not necessarily picked up in blood tests. This is well known.

Dr. Peat has shown how iron accumulates in the body and over time as we age, iron is an enemy of good health. This is not something that is shown in many studies, but it follows 100 years of good science as Dr. Peat has interpreted it. Good luck finding a study on this. Good luck finding studies showing how PUFAS similarly accumulate as we age. Dr. Peat has shown it to me and I believe him. There are studies that back up the THEORY but not necessarily studies showing exactly that.
 
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If you want to see another example of Dr. Peat being right

NYAS Publications
Abstract: Controversy surrounds the role of iron (Fe) in atherosclerosis (ASCVD), mainly due to the inaccuracy of assessing body Fe stores with serum ferritin and transferrin saturation. Quantitative phlebotomy was used to test whether or not (a) Fe stores are increased in individuals at high risk for ASCVD and (b) Fe depletion to near‐deficiency (NID) levels is associated with reduction of risk factors for ASCVD. Thirty‐one carbohydrate‐intolerant subjects completed the study. Fe stores were within normal limits (1.5 ± 0.1 g). At NID, a significant increase of HDL‐cholesterol (p < 0.001) and reductions of blood pressure (p < 0.001), total and LDL‐cholesterol (p < 0.001), triglyceride (p < 0.001), fibrinogen (p < 0.001) and glucose and insulin responses to oral glucose loading (p < 0.001) were noted, while homocysteine plasma concentration remained unchanged. These effects were largely reversed by a 6‐month period of Fe repletion with reinstitution of Fe sufficiency. Thus, although individuals at high risk for ASCVD are not Fe‐overloaded, they seem to benefit, metabolically and hemodynamically, from lowering of body Fe to levels commonly seen in premenopausal females.
 
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Messages
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Back to the original subject...I have been feeling crappy with minor but persistent body aches since my temps have come up to “normal” in relationship to what Dr. Broda Barnes has shown.

@lampofred has been suffering very low energy levels.

I can say for me, that my libido is higher than it’s been, and my erections are exceptionally good. And my last blood test showed high iron levels but since then I’ve given blood twice (in an 18 month time.)

I am trying more thiamine (1000mg per day).
 

postman

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Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
1,284
Another example of what I mean is this study

Association between treatment for erectile dysfunction and death or cardiovascular outcomes after myocardial infarction

Results Forty-three thousand one hundred and forty-five men with mean age 64 (±10) years were included, of whom 7.1% had ED medication dispensed during a mean 3.3 years (141 739 person-years) of follow-up. Men with, compared with those without treatment for ED, had a 33% lower mortality (adjusted HR 0.67 (95%CI 0.55 to 0.81)), and 40% lower risk of hospitalisation for heart failure (HR 0.60 (95% CI 0.44 to 0.82)). There was no association between treatment with alprostadil and mortality. The adjusted risk of death in men with 1, 2–5 and >5 dispensed prescriptions of phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors was reduced by 34% (HR 0.66 (95% CI 0.38 to 1.15), 53% (HR 0.47 (95% CI 0.26 to 0.87) and 81% (HR 0.19 (95% CI 0.08 to 0.45), respectively, when compared with alprostadil treatment.

43 145 men. Thats a rather large study. Those who was on erectile dysfunction drugs was healthier.

Conclusions Treatment for ED after a first MI was associated with a reduced mortality and heart failure hospitalisation. Only men treated with phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors had a reduced risk, which appeared to be dose-dependent.

How can anyone still say that nitric oxide is not beneficial and that PDE-5 inhibitors are bad.
Comparing one toxic drug with another
 

Beefcake

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Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
290
PDE5 inhibitors are in the cycle of Big Pharma when they can do no wrong. You have to know what they do and how they do it to realize that the studies are bull****.

Same with iron. You need an explanatory theory, not just a study.

I don’t know why you are here @Beefcake. You think iron and omega 3 are healthy. PDE5 inhibitors are good. You don’t appear to believe Dr. Peat’s research. His research has a perspective of 100 or 150 years of science and is not trendy study baloney.

I would believe Dr. Peat’s work, not your findings. I realize that isn’t an argument. It is not. But honestly the science is very complicated and well beyond my abilities to understand, so I choose Dr. Peat and a lot of the wonderful people here, not you and your theories. Sorry. Again, I know that isn’t an argument but neither is posting some studies. Without perspective, these studies are bunk. One of your iron studies is for people with anemia, and of COURSE they may need iron. They may only need liver, actually, but good luck finding a study where they give anemic people liver.

Also infections tend to drive down the appearance of iron in our bodies. The iron stores are just as high but not necessarily picked up in blood tests. This is well known.

Dr. Peat has shown how iron accumulates in the body and over time as we age, iron is an enemy of good health. This is not something that is shown in many studies, but it follows 100 years of good science as Dr. Peat has interpreted it. Good luck finding a study on this. Good luck finding studies showing how PUFAS similarly accumulate as we age. Dr. Peat has shown it to me and I believe him. There are studies that back up the THEORY but not necessarily studies showing exactly that.

First you say you rather believe theories than studies. Then you say I dont believe your theories. I do like theories and hypothesis as those ray has contributed with but a theory doesnt always fit reality like a glove. Thats why you conduct studies. To test a theory at see what results it yields. I’m not questioning ray peat as I do understand his concepts and theories vs mainstream science. I do appreciate the science behind it but sometimes that can tend to focus on one thing and ignore the larger picture and forget to take other things into account. I’d rather look at a study that has been done on thousands of people over years than just reading theories. Guess we are just different that way. Is it forbidden to be here and have an open discussion about peats work? I have to obey? Doesnt seem to be a healthy community then. More like a cult.
 

ilikecats

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Jan 26, 2016
Messages
633
@Beefcake what articles of Ray's have you actually read? Are you subscribed to his newsletter? Even the mainstream already knows that PDE5 inhibitors are unsafe:

Viagra Linked to 522 Deaths

FDA Reports Hearing Loss Linked To Viagra And Other PDE5 Inhibitors

Viagra may permanently damage vision in some men, study finds

Ray relies on huge body of research and cites a ton of studies. There's a lot of researchers who are in agreement with ray on various subjects but they don't have blogs or post on forums and their work doesn't make headlines.

Still trying to find the whole study on this but the abstacts interesting:

The nitric oxide hypothesis of aging - ScienceDirect
 
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Beefcake

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Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
290
If you want to see another example of Dr. Peat being right

NYAS Publications
Abstract: Controversy surrounds the role of iron (Fe) in atherosclerosis (ASCVD), mainly due to the inaccuracy of assessing body Fe stores with serum ferritin and transferrin saturation. Quantitative phlebotomy was used to test whether or not (a) Fe stores are increased in individuals at high risk for ASCVD and (b) Fe depletion to near‐deficiency (NID) levels is associated with reduction of risk factors for ASCVD. Thirty‐one carbohydrate‐intolerant subjects completed the study. Fe stores were within normal limits (1.5 ± 0.1 g). At NID, a significant increase of HDL‐cholesterol (p < 0.001) and reductions of blood pressure (p < 0.001), total and LDL‐cholesterol (p < 0.001), triglyceride (p < 0.001), fibrinogen (p < 0.001) and glucose and insulin responses to oral glucose loading (p < 0.001) were noted, while homocysteine plasma concentration remained unchanged. These effects were largely reversed by a 6‐month period of Fe repletion with reinstitution of Fe sufficiency. Thus, although individuals at high risk for ASCVD are not Fe‐overloaded, they seem to benefit, metabolically and hemodynamically, from lowering of body Fe to levels commonly seen in premenopausal females.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.ATV.17.11.2638

Our data do not support the hypotheses that elevation of Fe stores increases or that a reduction of Fe stores by phlebotomy decreases the risk of coronary artery disease.

Effect of iron deficiency anemia on the development of atherosclerosis in chicks. - PubMed - NCBI

atherosclerosis-anemia groups of birds indicates that iron deficiency anemia did not markedly affect the development of atheroslcerosis; it did not offer any protection in chickens and, in fact, a slight potentiating effect was observed.
 

ilikecats

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Jan 26, 2016
Messages
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@Beefcake I spent two years thinking that nitric oxide was good for you and used various methodologies to try to raise it. When I first heard of Ray’s position on it I thought it was stupid, I honestly thought he was insane. Took time, observation, experience, research and critical thinking for me to change my position. The fact that people recommending l-arginine supplementation to raise NO acknowledge that it can cause herpes outbreaks due to immunosuppression was what I’d call a red flag and was a small part of the changing process for me.
 

redsun

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Dec 17, 2018
Messages
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PDE5 inhibitors are in the cycle of Big Pharma when they can do no wrong. You have to know what they do and how they do it to realize that the studies are bull****.

Same with iron. You need an explanatory theory, not just a study.

I don’t know why you are here @Beefcake. You think iron and omega 3 are healthy. PDE5 inhibitors are good. You don’t appear to believe Dr. Peat’s research. His research has a perspective of 100 or 150 years of science and is not trendy study baloney.

I would believe Dr. Peat’s work, not your findings. I realize that isn’t an argument. It is not. But honestly the science is very complicated and well beyond my abilities to understand, so I choose Dr. Peat and a lot of the wonderful people here, not you and your theories. Sorry. Again, I know that isn’t an argument but neither is posting some studies. Without perspective, these studies are bunk. One of your iron studies is for people with anemia, and of COURSE they may need iron. They may only need liver, actually, but good luck finding a study where they give anemic people liver.

Also infections tend to drive down the appearance of iron in our bodies. The iron stores are just as high but not necessarily picked up in blood tests. This is well known.

Dr. Peat has shown how iron accumulates in the body and over time as we age, iron is an enemy of good health. This is not something that is shown in many studies, but it follows 100 years of good science as Dr. Peat has interpreted it. Good luck finding a study on this. Good luck finding studies showing how PUFAS similarly accumulate as we age. Dr. Peat has shown it to me and I believe him. There are studies that back up the THEORY but not necessarily studies showing exactly that.

Woah there, iron is needed, and is healthy by definition because it is an essential trace mineral, not too mention the most abundant trace mineral in humans, zinc being 2nd. And Peat is still right, iron accumulates in age. Except it doesnt happen in everyone. Some may grow older and older keeping large stores of iron that end up causing damage, yet there are many more that are chronically anemic because of digestive issues. It all depends on your sources of food, iron from meat is not like fortified iron in grains and cereals.

Non-heme iron has terrible absorption rate while those with intestinal damage may not be able to absorb any non-heme iron. You are seriously trying to suggest that the elderly in retirement homes have iron overload? Or that all 50 year old men and women I am seeing daily are iron overloaded or even iron sufficient? I've seen the elderly in the retirement homes and I've seen what they eat. Salads and plants mostly, barely anything of substance.

Digestion gets worse generally the older you get, reducing absorption of most nutrients, including iron. Most of the elderly I've seen need a good sized sirloin, not salad and fruit juice. Most of the middle aged people I know have very low iron diets and generally low meat diets, lack of animal foods. Most are either overweight/obese and lethargic/fatigue/low energy or underweight and sickly. Iron deficiency is the most common nutrition deficiency in the world. Sure you can argue that the WHO is full of ***t about that, then you would really be sticking your head in the sand.

Doesnt mean we should be supplementing iron so readily. Its better obtained by having adequate vitamin D levels(which is also one of the more common deficiencies in the world) to reduce hepcidin as well as increasing intake of red meat. Vitamin C is also supposed to help. There is a reason the RDA is 8mg when we only excrete around 1mg a day(more if your a women, as well as there being many factors that increase iron loss). Athletes or anyone that does intense exercise regularly will lose more iron because of sweating and damage to GI tract caused by exercise as well as the fact that red blood cells break down faster in those who exercise.

I still recall this one year of my life, I was 19. Doing heavy lifting workouts to pack on muscle(which I did, lots of) and a little sprinting each week. My meat consumption was virtually entirely lean chicken, no source of heme iron at all, and starches like potatoes and rice as well as soda, fruit juice and dairy. My endurance, stamina(not just for exercise but daily life) slowly got worse after 6 months into the year.

I became very pale(I am usually very light colored, but got even more so) I was literally falling apart slowly to the point where I ended up so weak near the end of the year that I was stuck on my couch for literally an entire week, only moving to eat and use the bathroom, pure torture. Couldnt even sit up to watch TV had to lay down. I figured out that it was because I switched out red meat for chicken for so long I ended up anemic and my lab test at the doc confirmed it. It didnt even take me a year to have issues with iron because of how hard I worked out.

Like I said, Peat can be right and it doesnt necessarily mean beefcake is wrong or that all pro-iron info is propaganda, to think that is to be paranoid and just plain unscientific. We cant just ignore the fact that iron deficiency does happen because Peat says we accumulate iron as we age as if this is a 100% true statement for everyone. It is incredibly easy to become iron deficient and very hard to recover from it because of the fact that iron absorption is incredibly low even with heme-iron.

I generally trust Peat's judgement and his experience and plethora of knowledge, but I always try to verify what he says regardless, including when it came to iron. I did not find that his strict anti-iron belief was justified as I researched all the literature I could on iron.
 

Jon

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Fatigue is the main problem
No shortness of breath
No
Poor appetite but I know why
Worse in the morning but I know why
I sleep a lot now but I used to not need much sleep. I don't wake up at all. I know why I need so much more sleep now
I dream too much
I don't really understand what you mean, but my entire body feels fatigued. Like my gas tank is at E.
No restless legs.

For all the "I know why" the common answer is that I think I have too much serotonin and too much acetylcholine due to a lack of GABA. I asked Dr. Peat about this and he said to make sure I am getting all trace minerals and vitamins and to avoid strong EMF, in addition to his more general recommendations of avoiding salt restriction, keeping calcium higher than phosphate, and checking temps/pulse rate and he also mentioned to check blood pressure.

I think avoiding EMF will be the biggest game changer, I need to get serious about switching jobs and moving because no amount of diet/supplementation has been able to make me completely immune to high radiation exposure.

I think a lot of people who feel better after supplementing iron might actually be deficient in gelatin. Gelatin increases iron use but doesn't actually contain iron, so it gives you the benefit of iron supplementation without the destructive oxidizing effect of actually adding more iron to your body.

Dude this really sounds like you’re moving from sns dominance back to a proper balance of cns and psns control. Often times when I’m recovering from a training Mesocycle, the first 4 days of my off week I get very vivid dreams and feel very fatigued. It used to last for longer when my fatigue management was poor and I’d train for more consecutive weeks than I should have (essentially digging more of a hole to have to climb out of). The longer I went with out a break, the longer the eventual break took to get me back to feeling normal. A calorie deficit worsens all of that as well.

The fact that you’re able to sleep well without interruption is a good sign, as well as your vivid dreaming. The fatigue is also a good sign as I’ve come to see sudden seemingly random fatigue as your body finally lowering your endorphins (stress opioids) and subsequently eliminating the numbing effect they have on ravaged nerves and tissues. This is where the vivid dreaming comes in, as this is imo a sign you’re beginning to “burn off” the excess that has been coursing your serum during your period of high stress. Physical, mental, and dietary stress can all cause heightened serotonin and the three combined are the perfect storm for total sns dominance. The dreaming and deep sleep combined with the low appetite tells me you’re on the tracj to recovery and this will most likely subside as long as you keep your stress levels low like you have apparently been doing :). I’ve felt all the same thing you do and recovered from it with good food, rest, and patience :)
 

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