Low Pulse High Temps? Advice Needed!

Barbell096

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Sep 28, 2014
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Hey everybody this is my first post on the forum. I have been trying to follow a Ray Peat style diet for the past few weeks however I am having some problems. Average morning temp and pulse for me is 97.6/63BPM. My temperature rises to a normal level of about 98.6 or higher in the afternoon (There have been times when I hit 99.8 and other very high temps after a meal) however my pulse is always really low. On a good day I can get it up to 80 however it usually sits at 60 to mid 70's all day. My hands and feet are almost always cold. I can tolerate very little fluid or my temperature drops. Because the Ray Peat diet is mostly fluids this is a big problem and I can never get enough calories. I cant take thyroid meds because I doubt im truely hypothyroid and im only 17. Ive read about many people on the forum with a high pulse and low temps but none with a low pulse and average/high temps. My libido is low probaly because of the calorie restriction and I have very little energy for exercising. If I can't get my pulse up I will probaly try Matt Stones approach from 180degreehealth which I don't consider optimal but getting adequate calories is the most important thing right now. Anybody know what could increase pulse? Aspirin? Salt? Have any of you had problems with the high fluid intake? Did adding more salt help? Thanks everyone :)
 

tara

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Calorie restriction doesn't sound good for a growing teenager. Sounds like you've got that this can supress metabolism in itself along with causing other problems. I think in general it makes sense to get the food up first - sometimes this is enough to solve most of the problems, especially if you are young. Many of the other measures require a good basis of nutrition to be helpful anyway.

You can bump up the calorie density (ie more calories without more water) in various ways, depending on what agrees with your digestion, by:
making cottage/farmers cheese out of some of your milk, or buying cheese,
condensing milk'
adding sucrose to milk/juice/stewed fruit,
adding milk powder (oxidised cholesterol may be a negative for this, but it gets you lactose, protein, calcium)
Eggs
Dried fruit, if it doesn't mess too much with your guts.
Coconut oil, butter, full-cream milk (still probably good to get in more sugar than fat, but some saturated fat can be helpful, and if you are trying to get the calories up, it's an easy way)
Potatoes with butter and salt.
When all else fails, there's always chocolate to bump up the calories:):
Take a look at the recipes section.

Everyone makes different decisions about which of Peat's ideas they want to implement. You don't have to cut everything you used to eat out of your diet at once if you haven't yet figured out what to replace it with. I'd say the top priorities would be: minimise PUFAs (replace with coconut oil, dairy, etc), get enough protein, get enough carbs, and then you can gradually work on improving these - going for higher quality sources (eg more milk and gelatine, less legumes and muscle meats, more fruit/juice, less grains), and replacing foods that cause you particular problems (lots of people avoid grains).

I think stress hormones can keep core temperature up even when thyroid metabolism is lowish, and that you can get more of a picture of what is going on by measureing at different times of day (but others know more about how to interpret this). I think Peat has said that it often takes longer for pulse to come up when metabolism is improving.

I tend to cold hands and feet. Apparently this is typical of high adrenaline state. For me, it's helped by more food, more salt, sunshine, gentle movement, enough sleep, warmer environment/clothes, improved breathing habits.

You'll probably get more ideas from others.
 
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Barbell096

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Sep 28, 2014
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Thank You! This is all great advice, I think I am on the right track! I think I found the source of most of my problems actually. I seem to retain sodium very poorly and the amount I needed was much higher than I realized. I just shotgunned a tsp of salt and my pulse rose to 90 which is the highest I have measured it. I am going to experiment with several tsp a day of extra sodium plus salting my food to taste. You are right about the stress hormones I think I had high aldosterone from lack of salt. I am also going to make an effort to up my calories to atleast 3000 per day. Increasing calorie density is a good idea I'm going to eat dried raisins and dates in addition to other fruits to cut back on fluids and add another 600 calories or so. I finally found cottage cheese without carageenan so that will add some quality sodium and protein. I was frustrated with the lack of results but its really starting to come together now! Thank you :)
 

tara

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Barbell096 said:
I am going to experiment with several tsp a day of extra sodium plus salting my food to taste.
Increasing salt may well help. Adding several teaspoons a day of sodium suddenly may be a bit much - it might be easier to tell when you get to a good level if you gradually increase over a week or two. Baking soda will also give you sodium.
Barbell096 said:
I am also going to make an effort to up my calories to at least 3000 per day. Increasing calorie density is a good idea I'm going to eat dried raisins and dates in addition to other fruits to cut back on fluids and add another 600 calories or so.
Good. You could eat more than this if you are hungry for it, or if you are particularly active.
Barbell096 said:
I finally found cottage cheese without carageenan so that will add some quality sodium and protein.
Sounds good. It's also very quick and easy to make.
 

BingDing

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Morning temps of 97.6, low pulse, cold hands and feet are as much as you need to conclude you are hypothyroid, I think. Those are the criteria that Dr. Broda Barnes used and RP refers to them constantly. Being young does not mean you can't be hypothyroid. But you have to think this through for yourself.

Most people would tell you to find a doctor to help, but that is unrealistic in many (if not most) cases. Self-medicating, especially with hormones, can seem daunting but it really is not a big deal if you are smart and patient. The body normally produces about 5 mcgs of T3/hour, so taking 2 mcgs in the morning is not likely to be a problem. And then 2 mcgs in the morning and evening, then 2 mcgs in the morning, afternoon, and evening. Then a little more once a day, then twice a day, etc.

Did I mention being patient? So three months go by and you are taking 20 mcg/day, say. Those three months would have gone by anyway, 20 mcg is not very much, but the most important thing is that you would have learned some things along the way. That is by far the most important thing.

My two cents.
 
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Barbell096

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I would love to get a hold of some thyroid meds like armour or cytomel but I can't without a prescription here in Canada. Purchasing online thyroid legally is also practically impossible here and we dont have mexican pharmacys to buy from like they do in the USA as far as im aware. I have found a dessicated thyroid supplement called Nutri-Meds which is legal on iherb and some people have claimed to have good results with it. Im reluctant to buy it because they can't say the T3 or T4 content because of the FDA but I think I will give it a try. I believe my mom and sister are hypothyroid so it may run in the family.
 

tara

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Barbell096 said:
I would love to get a hold of some thyroid meds like armour or cytomel but I can't without a prescription here in Canada. Purchasing online thyroid legally is also practically impossible here and we dont have mexican pharmacys to buy from like they do in the USA as far as im aware. I have found a dessicated thyroid supplement called Nutri-Meds which is legal on iherb and some people have claimed to have good results with it. Im reluctant to buy it because they can't say the T3 or T4 content because of the FDA but I think I will give it a try. I believe my mom and sister are hypothyroid so it may run in the family.

I wouldn't try to add thyroid till you've got your diet up to a reasonable level consistently for a while - that may be enough to solve a lot of problems, given your age. You can put a day's diet into cronometer.com to see if you are covering micronutrients. Peat would probably suggest it's OK for most people to go lower than RDI for iron, and get PUFA down as low as you can, but otherwise you probably want to meet the other guidelines. It's good to get more calcium than phosphorus, and gelatine can help balance amino acids.

But if you then still have signs of low thyroid function, you can try chicken neck or fish head soup. I eat a small amount of chicken neck soup morning and night, and I think it makes a difference. The Mexican pharmacies are in Mexico.
 

answersfound

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Do some research on Steve Richfield. Here is his approach below. He claims to have helped a bunch of people raise their body temperature by having them take hot showers, use a sauna, wear layers, etc. Basically your body's temperature becomes accustom to a lower default temperature through different traumas including stress, anesthesia, etc. and your body associates higher temperatures with risk of more trauma. I don't understand it completely, but it's certainly worth a try in combination with cytomel and matt stone's eat for heat.

The one-day method that seems to work best is to take some medication to raise the ”floor” on your metabolism (e.g. Cytomel or cortisol), to limit your CMCS’ ability to greatly reduce your metabolism. Then dress in an Alaskan parka while spending the day in a hot room, and monitor your body temperature to hold it exactly at 98.6oF (a little high is OK, but a little low is NOT OK). After a few hours, your CMCS will decide that it is easier to go along with 98.6oF than to fight it, and you will feel MUCH better. This will convince your CMCS that you will not necessarily die at 98.6oF.
WARNINGS Never do this while alone, and always have 12µG doses of Levoxyl (T4) on hand when attempting resets, to deal with any metabolic crashes that might develop.
On subsequent days, push your temperature up to 98.6oF (e.g. with coffee and hot showers) and dress insanely warm. At first, it will only stay up for an hour or so, but after a couple of weeks; it should stay up all day.
This portrays an ideal “reset”, but about half of the patients have various complicating factors, like hypothyroidism, that must be quickly addressed.

The usual way (there are a number of variants) is to take ~15 mcg of Cytomel to limit how low your body can crank its metabolism, wrap yourself in ~3 complete sets of warm winter clothing including hats, go into a hot room, and wait for your temperature to rise. When it gets to 98.6oF, you dynamically adjust the coats and room temperature to hold it there, while your central metabolic control system tries everything in its bag of tricks to subvert your efforts. After holding it at exactly 98.6oF for ~3 hours, your control system will give up on its 97.4oF setpoint and switch to its 98.6oF setpoint, whereupon it becomes MUCH easier to continue at 98.6oF for the rest of the day, because your control system is working with you instead of fighting you. If you decide to try this, you should also take ~12 mcg of Levoxyl after everything settles down at 98.6oF, as without this, you would probably "crash" ~5 hours into the process, which is unpleasantly frightening.

After that, every morning, kick your temperature up to 98.6oF with a hot shower, espresso coffee, warm clothing, or even another 5 mcg of Cytomel if all else fails. The first day your temp may only stay up for less than an hour, but the time will get longer and longer each day, so that in a couple of weeks, you should be able to stay at 98.6oF all day.

If you are crazy enough to actually try this, I strongly recommend first contacting me and exchanging phone numbers, because if anything goes wrong, you certainly won't have time to find out what you need to know any other way.

Of course, all the usual basics of experimental procedures apply. Never do anything like this alone. Have a paper hanging out of your shirt pocket explaining what you are doing, to guide potential emergency personnel who may be hauling away your unconscious body. Have transportation available to a hospital if needed. Do not attempt to drive. If really strange and unanticipated things should happen, move to the lobby of an emergency room, so that if things go badly, you don't have far to go, etc., etc.
 

BingDing

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FWIW, I agree with tara, adequate nutrition is a huge part of being healthy whether your thyroid gland is a working right or not.

Fluoride inhibits thyroid function quite well, 80 years ago doctors prescribed fluoride tablets for hyperthyroidism and it worked just fine. 2-5mg of fluoride/day over several months "cured" the condition caused by an overactive thyroid. If the water you drink is fluoridated, the levels of fluoridation might be within the 2-5mg/day range and could well be an issue. Again, a patient approach pays off, adequate nutrition with clean water over several months might be all you need.

I don't know if the Mexican pharmacies will ship to Canada, maybe someone here knows. IAS might. When I bought tianeptine from IAS they included a page with all kinds of common law rights to freedom, which I found encouraging.
 
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Barbell096

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Sep 28, 2014
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Thanks for the replies everyone! :D I am working alot on tweaking my diet and getting in more calories. The last few days i have massively increased my sodium intake with baking soda (atleast a tbsp per day) and my pulse is in a healthier range 80-90 vs 60-70 that I had before. Increasing my protein intake has also been very helpful. I have been eating a cup of beef meatballs with coffee everyday after which my nasty white tongue goes completely pink. I think the amino acids are inhibiting tryptophan absorption. I believe I have problems with high serotonin and tryptophan metabolism. My hair started going grey when I was really young and Ray Peat says tryptophan is found in high amounts in white/grey hair. I have some supplements coming in the mail I am going to try Haiduts BCAA protocol for depleting tryptophan and am also going to experiment with niacinamide, thiamine, and b6. My cronometer for the day will be:
3215calories, 135g of protein, 423g of carbs, 118g of fat. 5.7g of PUFA, 18mg of iron.
Iron is kind of high because of chocolate and beef. Pufa is high because of high fat dairy. My diet feels good though and im keeping the liquids relatively low 1liter full fat milk/1 liter OJ per day. I think I will be able to make things work without thyroid although it would probaly make things go much easier/quicker.
 
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Barbell096

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lookingforanswers- Steve Richfields ideas are interesting. Most of my health problems started when I was really young and had my appendix removed. It would have been very physiologically stressful. I got into cold showering which felt good at first "endorphin rush" but was probaly also very stressful. I have been wearing warmer clothes and having hot showers and I do feel better. BingDing- I have been avoiding fluroide as much as possible thats definately a good tip. Tara- I have added in gelatin and my calcium phosphorous ratio is good. I am going to hold off on the dessicated thyroid its too expensive and you are right diet is making the biggest difference
 

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