Using Vitamins (thiamine) For Improving Glucose Control

[haidut]

This is the second post of the series on vitamins for insulin resistance and glucose control. As you can see thiamine has highly beneficial effects on improving glucose oxidation and reducing the glycemic burden. The dosages from the animal and human trials are in the range 300mg-3,000mg daily, depending on whether it is for controlling symptoms of hyperglycemia or treating damage caused by an already established diabetes condition.


1. Thiamine reviews
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25117315
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24936250
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24059534
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22719800
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21564442
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18581039
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18220605
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7334733

2. Human studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23715873
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16741654
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10436256
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392542
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22231921

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8815395
"...Blood thiamine level markedly increased following supplementation of thiamine for 3 days before exercise. Exercise-induced changes in hemodynamic parameters and cardiopulmonary function indicated the onset of fatigue. Thiamine supplementation significantly suppressed the increase in blood glucose in the normal thiamine group and significantly decreased the number of complaints shortly after exercise in the subjective fatigue assessment of 30 items."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1883979
"...Thiamine, an essential co-enzyme, improves glucose utilization. Thiamine hydrochloride (50 mg per capita per day for 30 days), given to 25 patients with liver cirrhosis who had hyperglycaemia, produced a significant reduction (P less than 0.001) in blood glucose levels. It is therefore suggested that thiamine supplements be given to cirrhotics with hyperglycaemia, to improve glucose utilization."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23379830
"...The administration of large quantities of thiamine increases the concentration in the blood to levels in which the passive transport restores the normal glucose metabolism in all cells and leads to a complete regression of fatigue."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20652275
"...There were significant decreases in glucose (6.7 ± 1.0 mmol/l vs. 6.0 ± 1.0 mmol/l, p = 0.024) before and after the intervention, respectively, and leptin concentrations (32.9 ± 13.3 ng/ml vs. 26.9 ± 12.8 ng/ml, p = 0.027) before and after the intervention, respectively, with thiamine administration. There were no changes with the rest of the measurements."


3. Animal studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20644337
http://www.internationaljournalofcardio ... 3/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16645728
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11685195
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10629262
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6876523
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20369223
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16037305

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7405132
"...It is suggested that the insulin-like action of thiamine is consequent on the primary effect the vitamin exerts on the functional activity of the insular apparatus of the pancreas."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23065486
"...It was found that both supplementary CrProp and thiamine (given alone) have significant insulin-sensitizing and moderate blood-lipid-lowering properties, while the combined supplementation with these agents does not give synergistic effects in insulin-resistant rats. CrProp given separately increased kidney Cu and Cr levels, while thiamine alone increased hepatic Cu contents and decreased renal Zn and Cu contents."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422702
"...We previously found that thiamine mitigates metabolic disorders in spontaneously hypertensive rats, harboring defects in glucose and fatty acid metabolism. Mutation of thiamine transporter gene SLC19A2 is linked to type 2 diabetes mellitus. The current study extends our hypothesis that thiamine intervention may impact metabolic abnormalities in Otsuka Long-Evans Tokushima Fatty (OLETF) rats, exhibiting obesity and metabolic disorders similar to human metabolic syndrome. Male OLETF rats (4 wk old) were given free access to water containing either 0.2% or 0% of thiamine for 21 and 51 wk. At the end of treatment, blood parameters and cardiac functions were analyzed. After sacrifice, organs weights, histological findings, and hepatic pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH) activity in the liver were evaluated. Thiamine intervention averted obesity and prevented metabolic disorders in OLETF rats which accompanied mitigation of reduced lipid oxidation and increased hepatic PDH activity. Histological evaluation revealed that thiamine alleviated adipocyte hypertrophy, steatosis in the liver, heart, and skeletal muscle, sinusoidal fibrosis with formation of basement membranes (called pseudocapillarization) which accompanied significantly reduced expression of laminin β1 and nidogen-1 mRNA, interstitial fibrosis in the heart and kidney, fatty degeneration in the pancreas, thickening of the basement membrane of the vasculature, and glomerulopathy and mononuclear cell infiltration in the kidney. Cardiac and renal functions were preserved in thiamine treatment. Thiamine has a potential to prevent obesity and metabolic disorders in OLETF rats."

 

[messtafarian]

How much thiamine for a human,haidut?

 

[haidut]

How much thiamine for a human,haidut?

See the intro to my original post - I posted the min-max range used in the studies. Exact dosage will depend on specific person based on things like weight and tolerance to thiamine. Usually, 10mg/kg daily is enough to improve glucose control.

 

[messtafarian]

I had an experience a week or so ago with Thiamine. I keep reading amazing things about it on this board and I'm also concerned about brain function and concentration, nerve regeneration, etc. So one night I took 500mg since I figured that was an even median between lower and higher therapeutical doses. I had a pretty strong hypoglycemic reaction right after that and I was curious about glucose control for that reason. Why do you think that happened? Not enough glycogen?

 

[Peata]

I think you talked about taking B1 with a certain amount of carbs. For example, most of my meals are coming to around 50 g. carbs. Is this amount of carbs good to take B1 with, or save it for higher carbs or?

 

[Peata]

I had an experience a week or so ago with Thiamine. I keep reading amazing things about it on this board and I'm also concerned about brain function and concentration, nerve regeneration, etc. So one night I took 500mg since I figured that was an even median between lower and higher therapeutical doses. I had a pretty strong hypoglycemic reaction right after that and I was curious about glucose control for that reason. Why do you think that happened? Not enough glycogen?

This is something I'm concerned with too, so i'll look forward to the answer.

 

[haidut]

I had an experience a week or so ago with Thiamine. I keep reading amazing things about it on this board and I'm also concerned about brain function and concentration, nerve regeneration, etc. So one night I took 500mg since I figured that was an even median between lower and higher therapeutical doses. I had a pretty strong hypoglycemic reaction right after that and I was curious about glucose control for that reason. Why do you think that happened? Not enough glycogen?

This is something I'm concerned with too, so i'll look forward to the answer.

If your glucose control is fine then you probably don't need thiamine at all or need much smaller dosages (i.e. <50mg). This post is for people that have posted repeatedly having issues with hyperglycemia and pre-diabetes. Hence, the studies with diabetic animals and people.
If you are healthy and take thiamine for performance / mental reasons then I would stick to no more than 300mg every 4-6 hours and ensure you get at least 1g/kg of carbs / sugar with the dosage of thiamine. Thiamine supplementation for glycemic control is best suited for people who are either thiamine deficient or have a problem getting thiamine transported into their cells. As the study on chronic fatigue in IBS showed, higher dosages of thiamine force thiamine into the cell and normalize metabolism even though blood thiamine levels were considered normal in the IBS patients before supplementation.

 

[messtafarian]

Ok, thanks Haidut :)

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I had an experience a week or so ago with Thiamine. I keep reading amazing things about it on this board and I'm also concerned about brain function and concentration, nerve regeneration, etc. So one night I took 500mg since I figured that was an even median between lower and higher therapeutical doses. I had a pretty strong hypoglycemic reaction right after that and I was curious about glucose control for that reason. Why do you think that happened? Not enough glycogen?

I had a similar experience with around 800mg across a day. Woke up with intense night sweats. At around 200mg a day I am fine though so I think my optimal range is somewhere in the middle of that. I'm waiting for some more Thiamine to arrive before I can experiment more.

Peata: I would be a bit cautious at your intended doses. Probably best if you ramp up to the higher doses just in case.

 

[Peata]

Peata: I would be a bit cautious at your intended doses. Probably best if you ramp up to the higher doses just in case.

I'm not clear on what you're saying. I had intended to do 500 mg. 3 x day, but now I worry that would lower blood sugar too much.

When i took B1 in the past, I took high doses of hundreds of mgs, but usually just in the morning to help get a jump on the day (increase energy, motivation, etc.) I didn't have problems. I am not sure what will happen if I spread it out with meals. My intent was to take it with sugary meals to help use the sugar properly.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Peata: I would be a bit cautious at your intended doses. Probably best if you ramp up to the higher doses just in case.

I'm not clear on what you're saying. I had intended to do 500 mg. 3 x day, but now I worry that would lower blood sugar too much.

When i took B1 in the past, I took high doses of hundreds of mgs, but usually just in the morning to help get a jump on the day (increase energy, motivation, etc.) I didn't have problems. I am not sure what will happen if I spread it out with meals. My intent was to take it with sugary meals to help use the sugar properly.

Yeah your reasoning is fine. I would just start with lower doses and go upward slowly just in case.

 

[nikotrope]

It's been one week that I've used thiamine when I eat large amounts of carbs and I don't have the sleepiness effect I often have. So far so great!

 

[tomisonbottom]

It's been one week that I've used thiamine when I eat large amounts of carbs and I don't have the sleepiness effect I often have. So far so great!

Curious, if you continued this?

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

Thiamine is amazing! I started taking 100 mg every time I take niacin amide and caffeine. Both high dose caffeine and b3 together or individually would cause me lots of problems previously. Mainly tiredness, bad joint pain, and adrenaline from caffeine. But thiamine has completely eliminated the joint pain and other side effects!

 

[poilochio]

Im a typ 1 Diabetic

I take 3 x 1 gram of thiamine for months now.

I don't really feel any affect on BS.... Still messing around with combos and doses tho (b3 b7 etc.)

 

[Pointless]

How much b7 do you use?

 

[poilochio]

Well i started a couple of months ago with like 17 mg once a day then 3 x17mg a day.... All the way up to 100mg 3x a day... Its kinda weird ..some days less works best.. Some days nothing works expept insulin shots. At the moment im doing 30mg 2x a day.... BTW with 100 mg 3x a day my girlfriend told me i have horrible chemical breath ...its probably also from the 3gram Niacinamide and 3 gram thiamine aswell

 

[Pointless]

Well haidut posted in the biotin thread that 15 mg is the sweet spot for b7 lowering insulin resistance.