The skin as a steroidogenic organ

[miquelangeles]

Little update:
The lanolin/mct mix has probably become one of my Top 5 supplements in the last months. I tested it for several months at this point and can't see any downsides ,only upsides.

It feels like it gives me a very balanced stream of steroids and has strong effects on mood, probably because the body can make any steroid from cholesterol/lanolin so you don't end up with only DHT or T or whatever you'd be supplementing otherwise.
And once again I'm baffled by the low amount that is needed to achieve such effects , not only but especially on the gonads. I use one drop on the testes and that's enough (of which about 70% is MCT oil. )
On The rest of the body I use like 3 or 4 drops, which is plenty as well.

Georgi and @Hans had a great segment about topical/scrotal application on his recent podcast . After watching that it really made sense that such a low dose is needed .

Another plus is that this formula is so cheap it's basically for free .

Btw I cycle this , am using it only 2 to 3 times per week . I don't know if this has any effect on the benefits ,but I always do that with steroid producing substances, to avoid tolerance.

Someone messaged me because of the ratio that i use :
When you use a 50/50% mixture of lanolin/mct oil ,It's just too solid /saturated. I use closer to 70% MCT oil with about 30% lanolin ,which gives you a cream like solution.

Thanks for the update. I'm going to resume this.
I had stopped because of some undesired effects but now I realize that I was overdoing it by using generous amounts.
It would make me feel lethargic and cause bloated face and acne.

Makes sense to try only one drop on testes. As mentioned earlier in this thread and others, the scrotum has incredibly high permeability.
I have felt immediate effects from any fat solubles that I applied (A, D, E, K). A, D and sometimes K would cause dull testicular pain shortly after application.

The rate of absorption through skin follows the following order:

Soles < Palms < Back < Scalp < Axilla < Forehead < Scrotum, with scrotum having 42-fold higher permeability than soles

 

[miquelangeles]

A little testimony on its mood boosting properties:
I recently spend some time at the sea and the negative ions always make me feel a little depressed for some reason .I also have this reaction to negative ions that aren't from the sea .
When I took like 3 or 4 drops of this mix my mood turned around completely in a matter of minutes.

Have you looked into lanosterol as an isolated compound? It is available as eye drops to treat cataracts (Lanomax is one such product).
It would be interesting to experiment with topical lanosterol as well.

 

[miquelangeles]

A little testimony on its mood boosting properties:
I recently spend some time at the sea and the negative ions always make me feel a little depressed for some reason .I also have this reaction to negative ions that aren't from the sea .
When I took like 3 or 4 drops of this mix my mood turned around completely in a matter of minutes.

I prepared the 70/30 mct/lanolin mix again today and used 3 drops. I had the same experience as you - noticeable mood boost and inner calmness within 15-20 minutes.

I find it hard to believe it was placebo, but I'm also skeptical how a biological effect can be achieved in such a short time.

Do people who use testosterone gel experience subjective effects within minutes too? One study with sublingual testosterone showed the peak concentration is achieved within 15 minutes and returns to baseline within 90 minutes. So it's plausible that some effects could be achieved in a short time, given the high permeability of the scrotum.

It's surprising that it works so well, but so far we do have a pretty good idea about the mechanisms involved, based on the available studies:

- lanolin is a complex mixture of a large number of compounds, including ~20% cholesterols and ~13% lanosterols
- lanosterol is the parent steroid, the compound from which all animal and fungal steroids are derived
- the testes form cholesterol locally and this process is similar to that in other tissues
- lanosterol converts to cholesterol in the testes, but it can also be converted directly into steroids
- the scrotum has remarkable permeability
- supplying cholesterols and lanosterols locally could provide substrate for steroidogenesis

Now a question arises about MCT - is it really a good idea to use it as a carrier? MCTs and especially lauric acid are known to inhibit 5ar. Is this desirable or not, in the current context?

 

[Inaut]

I prepared the 70/30 mct/lanolin mix again today and used 3 drops. I had the same experience as you - noticeable mood boost and inner calmness within 15-20 minutes.

I find it hard to believe it was placebo, but I'm also skeptical how a biological effect can be achieved in such a short time.

Do people who use testosterone gel experience subjective effects within minutes too? One study with sublingual testosterone showed the peak concentration is achieved within 15 minutes and returns to baseline within 90 minutes. So it's plausible that some effects could be achieved in a short time, given the high permeability of the scrotum.

It's surprising that it works so well, but so far we do have a pretty good idea about the mechanisms involved, based on the available studies:

- lanolin is a complex mixture of a large number of compounds, including ~20% cholesterols and ~13% lanosterols
- lanosterol is the parent steroid, the compound from which all animal and fungal steroids are derived
- the testes form cholesterol locally and this process is similar to that in other tissues
- lanosterol converts to cholesterol in the testes, but it can also be converted directly into steroids
- the scrotum has remarkable permeability
- supplying cholesterols and lanosterols locally could provide substrate for steroidogenesis

Now a question arises about MCT - is it really a good idea to use it as a carrier? MCTs and especially lauric acid are known to inhibit 5ar. Is this desirable or not, in the current context?

I just applied a drop of straight lanolin this morning to the testes. I think you make a good point about using mct @miquelangeles

 

[golder]

I just applied a drop of straight lanolin this morning to the testes. I think you make a good point about using mct @miquelangeles

Can you keep us posted on how the scrotal lanolin drop felt subjectively for you? Thanks!

 

[Mauritio]

Thanks for the update. I'm going to resume this.
I had stopped because of some undesired effects but now I realize that I was overdoing it by using generous amounts.
It would make me feel lethargic and cause bloated face and acne.

Makes sense to try only one drop on testes. As mentioned earlier in this thread and others, the scrotum has incredibly high permeability.
I have felt immediate effects from any fat solubles that I applied (A, D, E, K). A, D and sometimes K would cause dull testicular pain shortly after application.

The rate of absorption through skin follows the following order:

Soles < Palms < Back < Scalp < Axilla < Forehead < Scrotum, with scrotum having 42-fold higher permeability than soles

Yes I always want to do more when dosing ,but experience shows that I don't need more . When I use too much I get hypoglycemia.

Have you checked out Georgis explanation on applying stuff on testes and low dosing down there? It's really good ! I was worrying about the issue of disrupting the fatty acid balance there .

Have you looked into lanosterol as an isolated compound? It is available as eye drops to treat cataracts (Lanomax is one such product).
It would be interesting to experiment with topical lanosterol as well.

I have. I wanted to try it for a long time .
But Lanolin does have good amounts of lanosterol and dihydro-lanosterol! I posted a study on that in this thread .

I prepared the 70/30 mct/lanolin mix again today and used 3 drops. I had the same experience as you - noticeable mood boost and inner calmness within 15-20 minutes.

I find it hard to believe it was placebo, but I'm also skeptical how a biological effect can be achieved in such a short time.

Do people who use testosterone gel experience subjective effects within minutes too? One study with sublingual testosterone showed the peak concentration is achieved within 15 minutes and returns to baseline within 90 minutes. So it's plausible that some effects could be achieved in a short time, given the high permeability of the scrotum.

It's surprising that it works so well, but so far we do have a pretty good idea about the mechanisms involved, based on the available studies:

- lanolin is a complex mixture of a large number of compounds, including ~20% cholesterols and ~13% lanosterols
- lanosterol is the parent steroid, the compound from which all animal and fungal steroids are derived
- the testes form cholesterol locally and this process is similar to that in other tissues
- lanosterol converts to cholesterol in the testes, but it can also be converted directly into steroids
- the scrotum has remarkable permeability
- supplying cholesterols and lanosterols locally could provide substrate for steroidogenesis

Now a question arises about MCT - is it really a good idea to use it as a carrier? MCTs and especially lauric acid are known to inhibit 5ar. Is this desirable or not, in the current context?

I have had numerous substances where I felt an effect in a matter minutes. Especially when used topically with a good solvent, so I don't think it was placebo.

That's an interesting point. Do you have any other substances you want to dissolve it in?

 

[Mauritio]

Maybe this is the moment for sodium acetate as a solvent. I just don't know if it would work as a solvent .

Awesome, maybe I should add in some sodium acetate. this study shows it boosts testosterone ,lanosterol ,squalene androstenedione and cholesterol.
Squalene has a host of benefits of it's own, which why it's a part of haiduts steroid booster gonadin.


"...sodium acetate and attempts were made to isolate the most likely intermediates. Considerable quantities of radiochemically homogeneous squalene, lanosterol, cholesterol, testosterone and androstenedione,..."


I find it interesting the testes can synthesize de novo testosterone from something as simple as sodium acetate .
Which is safe and commercially available. So lanolin+ mct oil+ sodium acetate to the testes might be a good combo.

"It is concluded that decapsulated testes of mice synthesize de novo testosterone from sodium acetate..."

(Pathways of testosterone synthesis in decapsulated testes of mice - PubMed)

 

[miquelangeles]

Maybe this is the moment for sodium acetate as a solvent. I just don't know if it would work as a solvent .

I hadn't seen that post you made about acetate.

But last night I came across acetate in the same context in chapter "Endocrinology of the Testis" from the book General Endocrinology (1976). It is available on archive.org as well if you want to check it out.

Here are the paragraphs mentioning it:

Sodium acetate sounds like a good option to try as a solvent. I think it will work at least to some extent given the multitude of compounds in lanolin. Ethyl acetate is a solvent commonly used to liquefy lanolin and cholesterol, but it might behave different than sodium acetate.

It would be best if revisiting plain lanolin could provide the same effects, as @Inaut mentioned earlier.

Haven't checked Georgi's talk but I'll look it up now.

 

[miquelangeles]

From General Endocrinology 1955 edition:

A large number of androgenic compounds, not present as such in the organism, have been prepared synthetically. Testosterone propionate is the form commonly given at present for clinical use. Slow absorption and prolonged effects are obtained by the subcutaneous implantation of pellets of crystalline androgens. Certain of the natural and artificial androgenic compounds are more effective when mixed with some vehicle, such as lanolin, and massaged into the skin than when administered intramuscularly or subcutaneously. Orally effective compounds such as methyltestosterone have been prepared from natural androgens, but these are quickly inactivated by the liver.

 

[Mauritio]

I hadn't seen that post you made about acetate.

But last night I came across acetate in the same context in chapter "Endocrinology of the Testis" from the book General Endocrinology (1976). It is available on archive.org as well if you want to check it out.

Here are the paragraphs mentioning it:

View attachment 25367
View attachment 25368
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Sodium acetate sounds like a good option to try as a solvent. I think it will work at least to some extent given the multitude of compounds in lanolin. Ethyl acetate is a solvent commonly used to liquefy lanolin and cholesterol, but it might behave different than sodium acetate.

It would be best if revisiting plain lanolin could provide the same effects, as @Inaut mentioned earlier.

Haven't checked Georgi's talk but I'll look it up now.

That's interesting. Let me know if you try it. I'll stick to the lanolin /mct ,because it works :)

 

[miquelangeles]

That's interesting. Let me know if you try it. I'll stick to the lanolin /mct ,because it works :)

Lanolin/MCT definitely works, but there's a possibility that MCT is bioactive as well. I'm not saying this is good or bad.
I was looking into some old papers (late 1800s) about lanolin and its therapeutic uses and as an ointment it was mixed with about 30% water.
Lanolin readily combines with more than its weight in water. I think this was mentioned early on in this thread.
I remember that I used to rub it between the wet palms but now I tried to actually mix it with water and the result is a bright white cream that is non sticky and easy to apply. I'm going to use this water combination for a while and watch if the effects are similar.

A few excerpts:

... owing to the presence of cholesterin, combines readily with more than its own weight of water; it does not become rancid and resists saponification. It is neutral and is a good vehicle for remedies to be used by inunction, as it passes readily through the skin; it is not adapted as a protective for the same reason.

... Lanolin used as a medicament contains from 25 to 30 per cent of water, which is not, however, chemically combined, and is readily expelled by heat.

... Dr. A. Gottstein, of Berlin, has demonstrated that lanolin is indestructible or impermeable by micro-organisms. Its employment may, therefore, be regarded as an aseptic measure

... Physiological Action - Lanolin has a soothing action on a delicate or irritable skin. It is not used internally, but only as an unguent.

... Therapy - Lanolin is a serviceable dressing in cases of burns, scalds, erysipelas, frost-bites, erythema and dermatitis. Its property of absorbing water, its blandness and aseptic nature, render it an excellent medicament or base in acute eczema. In chronic eczema with infiltration and in psoriasis, lanolin softens the skin and favors the action of remedies with which it may be combined. Lassar highly recommends it in the treatment of impetigo contagiosa. When suitably diluted and perfumed it is an admirable toilet pomade. It rapidly heals chapped hands and lips, and may be spread upon the face before retiring at night in order to soften the skin after exposure to cold and wind. Lanolin, in conjunction with appropriate internal remedies, restores the lustre or gloss of the hair when it has been lost in consequence of systemic disease. It is valuable in the treatment of atrophy of the hair, and counteracts that dry, harsh condition of the hair which is natural to some individuals. Senile atrophy of the skin may be benefited by the persistent and systematic use of lanolin. Inunction with this substance is one of the best means at our disposal for the obliteration of wrinkles. Lanolin favors the proper performance of the glandular functions of the skin, and is efficacious in anidrosis, and comedones. In ichthyosis and scleroderma it softens the surface of the integument. It is an excellent vehicle for the parasiticides made use of in tinea versicolor, tinea favus and the varieties of tinea trichophytina. It is admirably adapted to serve as an ointment basis for the oleate of mercury or copper in the treatment of the affections specified. On account of the ready miscibility of lanolin with mercury and its penetrative power it is peculiarly serviceable in the inunction treatment of syphilis. In affections of the nasal and genito-urinary tracts lanolin is often of great advantage combined with cocaine hydrochlorate.

... It is a good vehicle for the anodynes - atropine, cocaine, morphine etc - in cases of neuralgia or rheumatic joints. As an ointment alone for the eye, lanolin is too thick, tenacious and sticky, and to remedy these defects a combination of 1 part benzoinated lard to 3 parts of lanolin has been preferred; this makes a fine, smooth ointment, which has been found a good vehicle for eye ointments, and, even alone, is often used to apply at night to the eyelids in conjunctivitis and almost all external inflammations.

... Lanolin containing a large proportion of water is efficient in relieving the itching which accompanies measles, scarlet fever and chicken-pox. The gradual evaporation of the water produces a cooling effect upon the skin. In these affections Dr. Klein adds to an ounce of pure anhydrous lanolin 3 drachms of vaseline and 5 fluidrachms of distilled water. Liebreich recommends the injection of a lanolin-cream into the bowel for the relief of inflammation and erosions of the rectum and hemorrhoids.

... Lanolin seems to heighten the efficacy of many of the drugs for which it is employed as an ointment-base. This is especially the case as regards chrysarobin. Applied upon a bougie it has been found of advantage in the treatment of gonorrhea.

... Professor Liebreich observed that cholesterin fat possesses the peculiar property of being able to absorb more than one hundred per cent of water, and this singular property was denominated by the great pharmacologist lanosation while the cholesterin mixed with water was termed by him lanolin. He also first called attention to the great therapeutic value of lanolin, and shortly afterwards the industrial production of pure lanolin was commenced by a Berlin firm, and its manufacture has been of late steadily increasing, which is not surprising when we consider the valuable properties possessed by this substance.

... Lanolin is already taking the place of vaselin, paraffin and lard, and there is every probability that before long it will exclusively replace these substances for medical purposes. Its efficiency in the composition of plasters, salves and ointments has already been established beyond doubt, and its superiority is due to the extraordinary readiness with which it is absorbed by the skin. While vaselin, for instance, directly hinders the passage of medicaments into the skin, - so that even some poisonous substances mixed with vaselin and rubbed into the skin produce neither local nor general symptoms of poisoning, - on the other hand, lanolin is absorbed by the skin with the greatest ease, and this ready absorption is not known to belong in a similar degree to any other fatty substance. So marked is the power of penetrating the epidermis possessed by lanolin that, according to Dr. W. G. Smith, when mixed with poisonous drugs, such as the toxic alkaloids, only about half the usual proportions should be prescribed in ointments. In attempting to account for the ready passage of the lanolin into the skin, Liebreich thought this property might probably be due to the fact of its originating from keratinous tissue.

... It is further recommended in cases where the epidermis is broken, as, for instance, in chapped hands, and is said to be very serviceable in the treatment of dandriff or scurf.

 

[sphenoid]

Would there be any benefit to adding pregnenolone and/or DHEA to a lanolin/MCT solution? If I recall correctly they both stimulate their own synthesis, so theoretically in the case of DHEA guiding it towards the androgen pathway.

I ask because I’ve been using: (30ml glass dropper bottle)
25 ml mct
5ml lanolin
10mg DHEA/ml
10mg Preg/ml

I tried without the DHEA/preg prior but have noticed more pronounced androgenic (deeper voice, calmer mind, fuller muscle) effects with them added in. Wondering if there are any short or long term issues with this approach.

 

[Pavel]

Lanolin/MCT definitely works, but there's a possibility that MCT is bioactive as well. I'm not saying this is good or bad.
I was looking into some old papers (late 1800s) about lanolin and its therapeutic uses and as an ointment it was mixed with about 30% water.
Lanolin readily combines with more than its weight in water. I think this was mentioned early on in this thread.
I remember that I used to rub it between the wet palms but now I tried to actually mix it with water and the result is a bright white cream that is non sticky and easy to apply. I'm going to use this water combination for a while and watch if the effects are similar.

A few excerpts:

Will Lanolin/MCT applied on scrotum work for someone who is on TRT?

 

[golder]

Will Lanolin/MCT applied on scrotum work for someone who is on TRT?

Great idea. Do you mean dissolving test base in lanolin/MCT oil and then using transcrotally? This has been on my to-do list for a few months now.

 

[bistecca]

If we think of the skin as a primary steroidogenic organ, it might also be important to consider how a variety of EMF sources can impact your skin.. I believe many sources and forms preferentially impact the skin. One of the health issues I've noticed correspond to high emf environments is a general degradation of the skin.. Slowed wound healing, increased scarring, expansion of moles, etc.

 

[miquelangeles]

@Mauritio what do you think about HPA lanolin vs regular lanolin? HPA stands for Hydroxypropyl Acrylate.
Seems to be a proprietary formulation. Can't find much else about it.
It is much softer and less sticky, but I wonder how safe it is.

Lansinoh HPA Lanolin is an ultra purified grade of lanolin, refined using a unique process to make it the world's safest, purest lanolin. Lansinoh HPA Lanolin Nipple Cream has been specially developed to help soothe and protect sore, cracked nipples in breastfeeding mothers.

Lansinoh uses a special refining process to create 100%-natural Lanolin that's hypoallergenic, colorless, odorless and free of parabens and additives. It's safe for both mom and baby—since it's tasteless, it won't deter your little one from a feeding session.

 

[Mauritio]

@Mauritio what do you think about HPA lanolin vs regular lanolin? HPA stands for Hydroxypropyl Acrylate.
Seems to be a proprietary formulation. Can't find much else about it.
It is much softer and less sticky, but I wonder how safe it is.

I think it's used in many supplements and makes them more water soluble. Dont know about its safety.
Did you see the post I tagged you in about pyrucet possibly beeing a great solvent for lanolin? That'd be something I'm willing to try .

 

[miquelangeles]

I think it's used in many supplements and makes them more water soluble. Dont know about its safety.
Did you see the post I tagged you in about pyrucet possibly beeing a great solvent for lanolin? That'd be something I'm willing to try .

I saw the pyrucet post but didn't get a chance to look into it.
I also listened today to Ray's interview where he talks about lanolin being great as an anti-aging skin agent due to its high content of cholesterol precursors.
I didn't know but he actually recommended MCT as a carrier for lanolin. I thought you came up with MCT through experimentation.
Lately I've been using some variations of lanolin with water alone and in combinations with various stuff as topicals. Lanolin is an excellent carrier itself. It was known since late 1800s that both poisons and drugs are readily absorbed through skin when mixed in lanolin.
I've been experimenting with topical DHEA+lanolin with interesting results. DHEA seems very tricky to get consistent effects with, even with topical application.
I also combined lanolin with the following: water as much as it takes in, MCT, PQQ, CoQ10, Vit E mixed tocopherols, Vit A from cod liver oil, Vit D, fresh royal jelly, sodium bicarbonate, aspirin, little bit of raw rapeseed honey, few drops of sandalwood oil. Very energizing and it would heal scratches and irritations overnight.

 

[Mauritio]

I saw the pyrucet post but didn't get a chance to look into it.
I also listened today to Ray's interview where he talks about lanolin being great as an anti-aging skin agent due to its high content of cholesterol precursors.
I didn't know but he actually recommended MCT as a carrier for lanolin. I thought you came up with MCT through experimentation.
Lately I've been using some variations of lanolin with water alone and in combinations with various stuff as topicals. Lanolin is an excellent carrier itself. It was known since late 1800s that both poisons and drugs are readily absorbed through skin when mixed in lanolin.
I've been experimenting with topical DHEA+lanolin with interesting results. DHEA seems very tricky to get consistent effects with, even with topical application.
I also combined lanolin with the following: water as much as it takes in, MCT, PQQ, CoQ10, Vit E mixed tocopherols, Vit A from cod liver oil, Vit D, fresh royal jelly, sodium bicarbonate, aspirin, little bit of raw rapeseed honey, few drops of sandalwood oil. Very energizing and it would heal scratches and irritations overnight.

Yeah he has talked about it here and there.
No he told me to use it over email .

What is the last sentence referring to ?

 

[miquelangeles]

Yeah he has talked about it here and there.
No he told me to use it over email .

What is the last sentence referring to ?

All those fat solubles mixed in lanolin.