Teeth/gum Discomfort?

catan

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Aug 22, 2013
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Since replacing the meat in my diet with mostly fruits, dried fruit, and potatoes, I found my teeth and gums sore after eating a certain amount of meat. I could eat a whole 12oz steak before without problems. Now, if I eat any around 3oz of meat or offal, my teeth and gums feel sore. Doesn't matter if the meat is chewy or soft; half my meat intake is liver/tendons/tripe. This problem doesn't happen with seafood.

I had a dental checkup a week ago, and the dentist said it was because I hadn't cleaned my teeth in a long time (the last cleaning was 3 years ago). He found nothing wrong with my teeth or gums. I got my teeth cleaned at that visit. My teeth and gums still get sore after meat though.

I searched around for toothache and painful gums, but most are related to chewing. I'm pretty sure this problem isn't from chewing...

Any ideas??
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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RP mentioned Endotoxin and intestinal inflammation can cause dental problems.
Gelatin in tendon and tripe can feed bacteria if it was not digested properly.

Another possibility is the ratio of phosphorus and calcium.
High phosphorus and low calcium ratio increases PTH, which plays a role in
dental health.
P:C per 100 grams
Shrimp : 139:37
T bone steak : 175:6
Liver :497:6
(I never noticed before that liver was so high in phosphorus)
PUFA is another source of problem.If i eat extra PUFA,
especially food fried in PUFA, i get sore gum.
 

Lisbon boy

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How much will lower phosphates taking niacinamide ?

"Niacinamide is another nutrient that lowers serum phosphate (Cheng, et al., 2008), by inhibiting intestinal absorption (Katai, et al., 1989), and also by reducing its reabsorption by the kidneys (Campbell, et al., 1989). Niacinamide's reduction of free fatty acids by inhibiting lipolysis, protecting the use of glucose for energy, might be involved in its effect on phosphate (by analogy with the phosphate lowering action of a deficiency of polyunsaturated fatty acids). Aspirin is another antilipolytic substance (de Zentella, et al., 2002) which stimulates energy production from sugar and lowers phosphate, possibly combined with improved magnesium retention (Yamada and Morohashi, 1986)." - RP

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ph ... ging.shtml
 

Mittir

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This study shows how niacinamide supplement lowers serum phosphate.

Perit Dial Int. 2009 Sep-Oct;29(5):562-7.
The effect of oral niacinamide on plasma phosphorus levels in peritoneal dialysis patients.
Young DO, Cheng SC, Delmez JA, Coyne DW.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Hyperphosphatemia remains a significant problem for patients requiring dialysis and is associated with increased mortality. Current treatment options include dietary restriction, dialysis, and phosphate binders. Treatment using the latter is frequently limited by cost, tolerability, and calcium loading. One open-label trial found niacinamide to be effective at decreasing serum phosphorus values in hemodialysis patients. Niacinamide may effectively reduce phosphorus levels in peritoneal dialysis (PD) patients already receiving standard phosphorus-lowering therapies.
METHODS:
An 8 week, randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled trial to evaluate the effectiveness of niacinamide to reduce plasma phosphorus levels in PD patients. Patients had to demonstrate a baseline phosphorus value > 4.9 mg/dL. Patients were randomized to niacinamide or placebo and prescribed 250 mg twice daily, with titration to 750 mg twice daily, as long as safety parameters were not violated. Phosphate binders, active vitamin D, and cinacalcet were kept constant during the study. The primary end point was change in plasma phosphorus. Secondary end points included changes in lipid parameters.
RESULTS:
15 patients started on the study drug (8 niacinamide, 7 placebo) and 7 in each arm had at least one on-study phosphorus measurement. The niacinamide treatment group experienced an average 0.7 +/- 0.9 mg/dL decrease in plasma phosphorus and the placebo-treated group experienced an average 0.4 +/- 0.8 mg/dL increase. The treatment effect difference (1.1 mg/dL) was significant (p = 0.037). No significant changes in high- or low-density lipoproteins or triglycerides were demonstrated. Two of the 8 patients randomized to the niacinamide treatment arm had to withdraw from the study due to drug-related adverse effects. Adverse effects may limit the use of niacinamide in PD patients.
CONCLUSION:
Niacinamide, when added to standard phosphorus-lowering therapies, resulted in a modest yet statistically significant reduction in plasma phosphorus levels at 8 weeks. [ClinicalTrials.gov number NCT00508885].
PMID: 19776051 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776051

RP has also mentioned calcium, salt , fructose and carboante increases urinary loss of phosphate. Vitamin D, K, Magnesium are involved in changing PTH.
RP cites a study that shows high calcium intake lowers PTH even when vitamin D is verylow.
 

catan

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This is helpful, thanks. Off to do some reading now.

If this is due to high phosphorus to calcium, I would think my high-fat meat-heavy diet previously would have resulted in sore gums, but I did not have this problem before. My diet was also much higher in PUFA before than now, mostly from pork, chicken, and salmon, all of which I barely consume now.

The gelatin in tripe could be a reason. Maybe not cooked enough? The soreness appears within a few bites of pork intestines or beef tripe, whereas I can tolerate much more liver and steak without issues. No problems with supplemental gelatin, however.
 

Mittir

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RP explained in his articles how PUFA rich diet often gives better result than
sugar or saturated fat diet in short term. PUFA lowers metabolism, which lowers
need for vitamins and minerals. If someone's metabolism is higher than before
then previous nutrient intake can not be used as standard.
 

catan

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Updating that I still get sore teeth/gums after meat consumption at much smaller quantities now than when I first started this thread. Especially with tripe. Generally as long as I only stick to shellfish and liver, I don't have this problem.

My gums also bleed a little when I brush my teeth, which happens everyday, but no pain. I use baking soda/coconut oil only.

Should I be concerned about this soreness and bleeding?
 
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I'm having the same problem. I am still hypothyroid, but consuming two or more grains of thyroid supplement, but might temperatures are not coming up, however maybe this is the reason for two soreness. Some form of malnutrition.

My teeth are worse, one where I had a pocket, is very inflamed. The rest of my mouth is sore.
 
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I wanted to follow up with my experience. I quit drinking orange juice. I used a LED infrared light on my gum. But I think the orange juice was causing the problem. My toothache went away. I still have a little bit of sensitivity in my gums. I'm increasing my vitamin C a little bit. I'm also making sure to take vitamin K2 with fat. I would say my teeth are 95% better. So I would say that it was probably the orange juice causing the problem. It was ripe orange juice, but I guess I can't tolerate it. No more orange juice for me.
 

catan

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ecstatichamster, thanks for sharing your experience. Is the sensitivity in your gums constant?
 

chispas

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Dec 4, 2014
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I had painful gums as well, until I started consuming Carlson's K2. I used to have about 30mg a day. I also stopped brushing my teeth right after drinking juice in the morning (getting ready for work). Nowadays, I just rinse in the morning and brush in the evening. I don't do bicarb or coconut oil, sometimes that can aggravate the situation.

In the past, I have had bleeding gums resolve with a singular dose of B12. It wasn't a special supplement either, just cyanocobalamin.
 

Pointless

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I had teeth sensitivity before I started Peating, but it's getting better. The problem I have is a dry mouth. I think it's from adrenaline or maybe cyproheptadine, but is anyone else having this problem?
 

Rand56

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I've dealt with teeth sensitivity for quite some time. Taking D3 and K2 didn't really help. Seems my missing factor was adding more calcium. What has helped greatly is, fairly recently I added approx an extra gram per day of calcium carbonate powder in addition to the milk I have been drinking everyday. I'm sure my calcium/phosphorous ratio has not been desireable since I have enough meat in my diet.
 

A.R

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I've dealt with teeth sensitivity for quite some time. Taking D3 and K2 didn't really help. Seems my missing factor was adding more calcium. What has helped greatly is, fairly recently I added approx an extra gram per day of calcium carbonate powder in addition to the milk I have been drinking everyday. I'm sure my calcium/phosphorous ratio has not been desireable since I have enough meat in my diet.
What brand of calcium carbonate do you take?

Thank You
 
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