Teeth Enamel Worn Out. Why? Remineralization Possible?

[Doludolu]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to come up with protocols, but K2, Vit D, bone broth, brushing with hydroxyapatite and rinsing with sea salt would all be included in it. Note that regenerating enamel is slow, you would have to be on your regimen for 6-12 months.

That's what I'm already doing for about 6 months. Even more (extra calcium, boron, potassiumm, brushing, oil pulling.
I'm actually though thinking to move onto Weston Price's type of eating for at least a couple of months to test the effects of it for teeth. I know it has been very regenerative to other people. Main principles are like loads of healthy saturated fat,bone broth, organs, ghee & I'd include some veggies and meat. So pretty much like a ketogenic diet, which I did feel my teeth were regenerating on it and some other benefits, but you know this type of eating (low-carb), comes with it's drawbacks... So yeah..

 

[TheSir]

That's what I'm already doing for about 6 months. Even more (extra calcium, boron, potassiumm, brushing, oil pulling.
I'm actually though thinking to move onto Weston Price's type of eating for at least a couple of months to test the effects of it for teeth. I know it has been very regenerative to other people. Main principles are like loads of healthy saturated fat,bone broth, organs, ghee & I'd include some veggies and meat. So pretty much like a ketogenic diet, which I did feel my teeth were regenerating on it and some other benefits, but you know this type of eating (low-carb), comes with it's drawbacks... So yeah..

Alright, then I'm afraid I can't be of further help. It's all a bit mysterious anyway, how some hit a state of health where their dentin suddenly regenerates, whereas others try for years to reverse even a modicum of their decay to no avail.

 

[Mary Lyn]

rep

 

[Mary Lyn]

"For anyone doubting Tony.. What Causes Tooth Decay? (And How Can We Stop it?) Dr. Steinman discovered that our teeth are alive. Contrary to the popular cultural belief that is teeth are like small rocks, the fact is that our teeth have a flow of fluid through them called dentinal fluid flow. The dentin is the layer of tissue in each of our teeth just between the hard outer enamel surface and the soft tooth pulp. Dr. Steinman discovered that this dentinal fluid flow is part of our blood circulation that occurs into and out of each of our teeth. Dr. Steinman discovered that when the dentinal fluid flow is flowing from inside the tooth out, the teeth are very resistant to decay. However, when the fluid flow isn’t flowing from inside out and in fact reverses and flows from the surface of the tooth to the inner portion of each tooth, decay sets in very quickly. If you think about what we generally recognize in our culture as the ‘cause’ of tooth decay, being the bad bugs in our mouths, if the dentinal fluid is flowing the healthy way, this flow keeps the bad bugs from being able to decay the teeth, the flow literally washes them out of the teeth. It’s like they have to swim upstream to get into the teeth. If on the other hand, the dentinal fluid flow reverses, then it’s like the bad bugs get free pass on the highway right into our teeth! Dr. Steinman found that dentinal fluid flow is controlled by the parotid gland, which is part of our salivary system and is located in the region behind our lower jaw. Then he discovered that the parotid gland is controlled by the part of our brain called the hypothalamus. We’ll call this system of the relationship between dentinal fluid flow, the parotid gland, and the hypothalamus simply dentinal fluid flow for the sake of simplicity. Then he said, “I wonder what causes the parotid gland to promote the proper flow of dentinal fluid and what causes the flow to go the wrong way to promote decay?” Dr. Steinman then went about discovering what factors cause the dentinal fluid to flow the health giving way as well as what causes the dentinal fluid to flow in the way that promotes decay. The real cause of tooth decay… What Dr. Steinman found is what causes the dentinal fluid to flow one way or the other was the balance of mineral phosphorus in the blood! Next to calcium, phosphorus is the most abundant mineral in the body. These 2 important nutrients work closely together to build strong bones and teeth. About 85% of the body's phosphorus is in bones and teeth. Phosphorous is also present in smaller amounts in cells and tissues throughout the body. What causes low blood phosphorus? Dr. Huggins explained it to us that phosphorus balance is impacted by several other factors in a teeter-totter fashion. Simply put, if we have phosphorus on one side of the balance, you’ll see we have some heavy hitters on the other side, including calcium, glucose, triglycerides and cholesterol. So, when any of these factors goes up, phosphorus goes down. With this, you can see that it’s not as simple as taking more phosphorus supplements. It’s all about bio-available minerals and fat-soluble vitamins… Dr. Price was a dentist in the 1930s in the US who decided to travel the world to study people living in isolated areas who were still eating their traditional foods. In other words, they weren’t living on the ‘foods of commerce’ as Dr. Price referred to them. Despite very different diets across the world, Dr. Price did find common threads through the traditional foods the various cultures ate around the world. One of the common threads he found was that the traditional peoples consumed 4 times the minerals as Americans in the 1930s and 10 times the fat soluble vitamins! Mind you, this was well before the low-fat propaganda blitz hit the US. Given this information, it does make sense that we dearly require more minerals in our diets and WAY more healthy fats than most people in our culture consume regularly. All living things require phosphorus... One important function of phosphate groups of organic molecules within living organisms is energy storage. Adenosine triphosphate, or ATP, is an example. ATP, the "energy currency" of cells is used to transfer stored chemical energy from one molecule to another to perform work. The energy is stored in the phosphate portion of the molecule. The energy we derive from food, for example, is stored in the form of ATP. Phosphorus is also required for the formation of phospholipids of cells. Phospholipids are the major component of cell membranes. Also, phosphate groups activate and deactivate enzymes within cells that catalyze major chemical reactions. Phosphate is a mineral salt component of bones and teeth in vertebrate animals. In addition, phosphate is an important structural component of DNA itself. So, recycling of limited phosphorus is vital. Naturally Regenerate Your Teeth! Tony Pantalleresco... Tony shows you how to regenerate your teeth using only 2 teaspoons of TriSodium Phosphate (TSP), 6 tablespoons of Baking Soda and 16-24oz of distilled water. Mix together and shake! Links: https://www.orawellness.com/why-do-teeth-decay/ https://www.orawellness.com/what-to-eat-to-support-greater-oral-health/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/on-the-trail-of-the-elusive-x-factor-a-sixty-two-year-old-mystery-finally-solved/ http://science.jrank.org/pages/5143/Phosphorus-Cycle-Phosphorus-functions-recycling.html"
from a Lil L

 

[TheSir]

It works I use it.

To what extent did your decay reverse? I experimented with this protocol for a while, but quickly started to get nausea from doing it. I was using industrial grade trisodium phosphate, which may have contained some trace toxins in it.

 

[Mary Lyn]

Small spots went after a week or so.

 

[TheSir]

Small spots went after a week or so.

Were they brown or white spots?

 

[Mary Lyn]

Grey - black.

 

[rei]

So the ultimate resolve was going to chiropactic / manualist and adjusting your body? Or you were working yourself out functionally, e.g. like functional patterns / animal locomotion exercises & etc?

I came up with something kinda similar as you describe there, you can look at my post history where i have detailed it to some degree. I called it chiropractic yoga but on youtube the closest thing i have found seems to be called myofascial unwinding. The chiropractic aspect would be applying external force to the bone structure.

 

[baccheion]

Go on milk diet for a while, unless you have problems with it. Add liver, vitamin D3, and vitamin K2. Rinse for 20 minutes each night with something (remineralizing formula, coconut oil, etc). Maintain pH with bicarbonate maybe? Use pH strips to watch saliva and urine.

You can potentially do it with 1% milk if adding back magnesium (at most 2:1 calcium:magnesium; add an oil spray if needing higher amounts), gelatin, liver, and alkalizers (PRAL score).

Milk diet is ketosis. That is, maybe it's better to go through keto adaptation first. In the book, they preceded with a 36-hour fast. I believe adaption takes longer, though. With 1% milk, it's still carb mode.

Sustained-release melatonin before bed (eg, REMfresh; never tried it, though).

 

[Doludolu]

"For anyone doubting Tony.. What Causes Tooth Decay? (And How Can We Stop it?) Dr. Steinman discovered that our teeth are alive. Contrary to the popular cultural belief that is teeth are like small rocks, the fact is that our teeth have a flow of fluid through them called dentinal fluid flow. The dentin is the layer of tissue in each of our teeth just between the hard outer enamel surface and the soft tooth pulp. Dr. Steinman discovered that this dentinal fluid flow is part of our blood circulation that occurs into and out of each of our teeth. Dr. Steinman discovered that when the dentinal fluid flow is flowing from inside the tooth out, the teeth are very resistant to decay. However, when the fluid flow isn’t flowing from inside out and in fact reverses and flows from the surface of the tooth to the inner portion of each tooth, decay sets in very quickly. If you think about what we generally recognize in our culture as the ‘cause’ of tooth decay, being the bad bugs in our mouths, if the dentinal fluid is flowing the healthy way, this flow keeps the bad bugs from being able to decay the teeth, the flow literally washes them out of the teeth. It’s like they have to swim upstream to get into the teeth. If on the other hand, the dentinal fluid flow reverses, then it’s like the bad bugs get free pass on the highway right into our teeth! Dr. Steinman found that dentinal fluid flow is controlled by the parotid gland, which is part of our salivary system and is located in the region behind our lower jaw. Then he discovered that the parotid gland is controlled by the part of our brain called the hypothalamus. We’ll call this system of the relationship between dentinal fluid flow, the parotid gland, and the hypothalamus simply dentinal fluid flow for the sake of simplicity. Then he said, “I wonder what causes the parotid gland to promote the proper flow of dentinal fluid and what causes the flow to go the wrong way to promote decay?” Dr. Steinman then went about discovering what factors cause the dentinal fluid to flow the health giving way as well as what causes the dentinal fluid to flow in the way that promotes decay. The real cause of tooth decay… What Dr. Steinman found is what causes the dentinal fluid to flow one way or the other was the balance of mineral phosphorus in the blood! Next to calcium, phosphorus is the most abundant mineral in the body. These 2 important nutrients work closely together to build strong bones and teeth. About 85% of the body's phosphorus is in bones and teeth. Phosphorous is also present in smaller amounts in cells and tissues throughout the body. What causes low blood phosphorus? Dr. Huggins explained it to us that phosphorus balance is impacted by several other factors in a teeter-totter fashion. Simply put, if we have phosphorus on one side of the balance, you’ll see we have some heavy hitters on the other side, including calcium, glucose, triglycerides and cholesterol. So, when any of these factors goes up, phosphorus goes down. With this, you can see that it’s not as simple as taking more phosphorus supplements. It’s all about bio-available minerals and fat-soluble vitamins… Dr. Price was a dentist in the 1930s in the US who decided to travel the world to study people living in isolated areas who were still eating their traditional foods. In other words, they weren’t living on the ‘foods of commerce’ as Dr. Price referred to them. Despite very different diets across the world, Dr. Price did find common threads through the traditional foods the various cultures ate around the world. One of the common threads he found was that the traditional peoples consumed 4 times the minerals as Americans in the 1930s and 10 times the fat soluble vitamins! Mind you, this was well before the low-fat propaganda blitz hit the US. Given this information, it does make sense that we dearly require more minerals in our diets and WAY more healthy fats than most people in our culture consume regularly. All living things require phosphorus... One important function of phosphate groups of organic molecules within living organisms is energy storage. Adenosine triphosphate, or ATP, is an example. ATP, the "energy currency" of cells is used to transfer stored chemical energy from one molecule to another to perform work. The energy is stored in the phosphate portion of the molecule. The energy we derive from food, for example, is stored in the form of ATP. Phosphorus is also required for the formation of phospholipids of cells. Phospholipids are the major component of cell membranes. Also, phosphate groups activate and deactivate enzymes within cells that catalyze major chemical reactions. Phosphate is a mineral salt component of bones and teeth in vertebrate animals. In addition, phosphate is an important structural component of DNA itself. So, recycling of limited phosphorus is vital. Naturally Regenerate Your Teeth! Tony Pantalleresco... Tony shows you how to regenerate your teeth using only 2 teaspoons of TriSodium Phosphate (TSP), 6 tablespoons of Baking Soda and 16-24oz of distilled water. Mix together and shake! Links: https://www.orawellness.com/why-do-teeth-decay/ https://www.orawellness.com/what-to-eat-to-support-greater-oral-health/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/on-the-trail-of-the-elusive-x-factor-a-sixty-two-year-old-mystery-finally-solved/ http://science.jrank.org/pages/5143/Phosphorus-Cycle-Phosphorus-functions-recycling.html"
from a Lil L

Since this is a Peaty group on those terms, what do you think about calcium : phosphorus ratio that RP suggests (2:1) ?
In this case to remineralize teeth, you suggest much higher ratio of phosphorus in the diet, if I'm correct? Could you point out how much in mg's I should strive for Phosphorus and Ca:P ratio ?

Go on milk diet for a while, unless you have problems with it. Add liver, vitamin D3, and vitamin K2. Rinse for 20 minutes each night with something (remineralizing formula, coconut oil, etc). Maintain pH with bicarbonate maybe? Use pH strips to watch saliva and urine.

You can potentially do it with 1% milk if adding back magnesium (at most 2:1 calcium:magnesium; add an oil spray if needing higher amounts), gelatin, liver, and alkalizers (PRAL score).

Milk diet is ketosis. That is, maybe it's better to go through keto adaptation first. In the book, they preceded with a 36-hour fast. I believe adaption takes longer, though. With 1% milk, it's still carb mode.

Sustained-release melatonin before bed (eg, REMfresh; never tried it, though).

Thanks, I was thinking to start Weston Price type of diet, loads of healthy fats, meats, organs, grass-fed butter. Sort of carnivore'ish, keto'ish. Remember last time it kind of regenerated my teeth a little bit. Will try for longer, with the exchange of my metabolism.. Not the best to do that low carb for thyroid, but then again teeth are my priority now. Would be nice to remineralize the enamel.. !!

 

[Mary Lyn]

Since this is a Peaty group on those terms, what do you think about calcium : phosphorus ratio that RP suggests (2:1) ?
In this case to remineralize teeth, you suggest much higher ratio of phosphorus in the diet, if I'm correct? Could you point out how much in mg's I should strive for Phosphorus and Ca:P ratio ?

Since I did not write the above, I cannot say.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I remember one member here commented that they had good results with this toothpaste "Apagard": https://www.amazon.com/Apagard-Premio-toothpaste-nanohydroxyapatite-remineralizing/dp/B0016GCZSC/
"Apaguard's whitening medicinal hydroxy apatite (mHAP) supplements the major component hydroxyapatite at the nano level, preparing enamel with three actions and preventing dental caries." (I have no relation to this toothpaste a company but this is the 2nd question on teeth health recently).

 

[JacquelineNZ]

latest RP interview on jodell he says enamel cannot repair. But the bulk tooth can. So at best this could mean with perfect oral health you can re-grow the cavity out to enamel level, and not have it cause issues.

Then again i have seen claims hydroxyapatite could remineralize teeth and i always assumed it means the enamel. Maybe it only works for demineralized enamel, not missing enamel?

teeth problems & calcified/fibrotic fascia that give problems in joints and sports are problems that probably go together. At least it was for me, caused by chronic postural problem that caused chronic sympathetic dominance, preventing repair.

So how did you fix your problems? I also have severe absorption issues and the demineralising if enamel and stuck in sympathetic so body dosnt hral, dysbyosis not HCL production and no hunger.

 

[rei]

Did you see my previous answer? See my post history over past ~2 years to see additional details.

 

[TibRex]

Hello. I do have teeth enamel problems, which is on several teeth quite extensively eroded and doesn't seem to be healing (calcium metabolism problems ? ). To the point where it is sometimes even painful to eat something like honey, fruits, some vegetables. So it's quite bad. I did improve my teeth hygiene routine: cleaning several times, oil pulling. Changed diet: by increasing calcium , magnesium, vitamin D and K, boron all for calcium metabolism in hopes to regenerate (remineralize) that, but so far not really succesful.

Beyond that I do often experience physical traumas, tendon - ligament - joint problems every now and then. I think every year something when doing sports happens, one trauma after another, even though I'm passionate about sports , activity and physical movement.

So something with health is most likely off and probably likely related to the teeth condition of mine.

Any ideas? Tips?

Thank you.

Beware of calcium supplementation as most people actually have too much, not too little, of this mineral. Your tendon & ligament traumas and joint problems appear to be symptoms of calcification from overdosing on calcium. I learn that Ca has to be in proper ratio to Mg and others like boron, phosphorus, Vit D... After reading Chap 10 of an online book titled "Magnesium For Strong Teeth", I decided to get some Magnesium chloride recommended by Walter Last** on another website and am pleased to find that my teeth are indeed becoming stronger after taking it for a few weeks. Also, my finger joint pains too are getting less. Here are the first few paragraphs of Chapter 10 :

"When you ask the dentist how you can help to prevent cavities, chances are he gives you a new toothbrush or special toothpicks, and warns you to brush after every meal, and to avoid too many sweets. If he is like most other dentists, he may recommend plenty of milk so that you get enough calcium, long known for its supposed tooth-hardening properties.

Undoubtedly, your dentist is doing what he can to help you take preventive measures, at least to the best of his knowledge. He is aware that bacteria from unremoved food particles and sugar by-products produce lactic acid, which dissolves calcium in the protective enamel layer. He also knows the pain involved when decay spreads to the sensitive pulp tissue. Yet he ignores the fact that milk is recognized to be a greater producer of lactic acid than any other known food.

Indeed, the "best of his knowledge" may not be enough. One thing he probably does not know is that a number of studies have now established that it is magnesium, not calcium, that forms the kind of hard enamel that resists decay. And no matter how much calcium you take, without magnesium only soft enamel can be formed. If too soft the enamel will lack sufficient resistance to the acids of decay.

For years it was believed that high intakes of calcium and phosphorus inhibited decay by strengthening the enamel. Recent evidence, however, indicates that an increase in these two elements is useless unless we increase our magnesium intake at the same time It has even been observed that dental structures beneath the surface can dissolve when additional amounts of calcium and phosphorus diffuse through the enamel at different rates. Thus milk, poor in magnesium, but high in the other two elements, not only interferes with magnesium metabolism, but also antagonizes the mineral responsible for decay prevention.

An article in Nature (April 29, 1961) reports that when 200 patients given an alkaline phosphate for three years showed a significant reduction in dental caries, scientists at the University of Otago in New Zealand discovered that magnesium was the beneficial factor. The report concluded that "an important role can possibly be assigned to magnesium [phosphate] in the stabilization of chemical, physical and electrokinetic states of the surface enamel calcium."

Source: Magnesium, The Nutrient That Could Change Your Life: Chapter 10. Magnesium for Strong Teeth

** Walter Last : magnesiumchloride

List of videos on how to remineralize teeth : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+mineralize+teeth

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Do any of you swallow some xylitol? If it kills bacteria in the mouth, should it not also kill bacteria in the gut?

 

[TibRex]

Do any of you swallow some xylitol? If it kills bacteria in the mouth, should it not also kill bacteria in the gut?

I don't take xylitol as it's often bundled with some undesirables. The following from some website may answer you question though :

"Xylitol is a sugar alcohol that bacteria happen to not be able to use as an energy source. In the absence of other sugars, bacterial growth slows. Therefore, its antimicrobial mechanism is bacteriostatic rather than bactericidal.

No antibiotic exists, or will ever exist, that kills or inhibits all kinds of bacteria.

One thing xylitol can kill is a dog – keep xylitol-containing products such as gum well out of their reach."

Source : Does xylitol kill all kinds of bacteria?

 

[BearWithMe]

Beware of calcium supplementation as most people actually have too much, not too little, of this mineral. Your tendon & ligament traumas and joint problems appear to be symptoms of calcification from overdosing on calcium. I learn that Ca has to be in proper ratio to Mg and others like boron, phosphorus, Vit D... After reading Chap 10 of an online book titled "Magnesium For Strong Teeth", I decided to get some Magnesium chloride recommended by Walter Last** on another website and am pleased to find that my teeth are indeed becoming stronger after taking it for a few weeks. Also, my finger joint pains too are getting less. Here are the first few paragraphs of Chapter 10 :

"When you ask the dentist how you can help to prevent cavities, chances are he gives you a new toothbrush or special toothpicks, and warns you to brush after every meal, and to avoid too many sweets. If he is like most other dentists, he may recommend plenty of milk so that you get enough calcium, long known for its supposed tooth-hardening properties.

Undoubtedly, your dentist is doing what he can to help you take preventive measures, at least to the best of his knowledge. He is aware that bacteria from unremoved food particles and sugar by-products produce lactic acid, which dissolves calcium in the protective enamel layer. He also knows the pain involved when decay spreads to the sensitive pulp tissue. Yet he ignores the fact that milk is recognized to be a greater producer of lactic acid than any other known food.

Indeed, the "best of his knowledge" may not be enough. One thing he probably does not know is that a number of studies have now established that it is magnesium, not calcium, that forms the kind of hard enamel that resists decay. And no matter how much calcium you take, without magnesium only soft enamel can be formed. If too soft the enamel will lack sufficient resistance to the acids of decay.

For years it was believed that high intakes of calcium and phosphorus inhibited decay by strengthening the enamel. Recent evidence, however, indicates that an increase in these two elements is useless unless we increase our magnesium intake at the same time It has even been observed that dental structures beneath the surface can dissolve when additional amounts of calcium and phosphorus diffuse through the enamel at different rates. Thus milk, poor in magnesium, but high in the other two elements, not only interferes with magnesium metabolism, but also antagonizes the mineral responsible for decay prevention.

An article in Nature (April 29, 1961) reports that when 200 patients given an alkaline phosphate for three years showed a significant reduction in dental caries, scientists at the University of Otago in New Zealand discovered that magnesium was the beneficial factor. The report concluded that "an important role can possibly be assigned to magnesium [phosphate] in the stabilization of chemical, physical and electrokinetic states of the surface enamel calcium."

Source: Magnesium, The Nutrient That Could Change Your Life: Chapter 10. Magnesium for Strong Teeth

** Walter Last : magnesiumchloride

I also came across an interesting video on the use of Trisodium phosphate. I managed to get some of the chemical last month but it's still on my bathroom shelf. Hope to try it out soon to see if it really works, as claimed by video producer and host, Tony Pantalleresco.

List of videos on how to remineralize teeth : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+mineralize+teeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J2vEIpqy90

There is nothing like calcium overdose, there is only K2 deficiency.

(beside really extreme cases generally not achievable by normal eating of course)

 

[BearWithMe]

No antibiotic exists, or will ever exist, that kills or inhibits all kinds of bacteria.

...ozone?

Chlorine is also pretty good at killing pretty much everything

There are some others