Gum Irritation/Gingivitis: Progesterone With Vitamin C?

Stilgar

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I want to postulate something, that perhaps more intelligent people can analyse.

I have taken high dose progesterone for the last few months. Not just 3x 3 drops per day, but more like 10-15 drops, twice a day. Needless to say, I got high, euphoric, anxiety dissolved (hurrah!) and very sleepy after my evening dose (surprisingly not in the morning!). I felt wonderful, but as this amount has accumulated, I became annoyingly sleepy. Unsurprising, since I got so carried away.

However, in the last two months of restarting progesterone in my luteal phase, I have gotten really bad gum irritation. Initially, it faded away, but when I dosed progesterone, it came back. I took three or four days off, in which the gums healed, and then started it again when I resumed progesterone. My gums got progessively more irritated, and I assumed I needed to clean them better, so was softer with my brush, used xylitol, baking soda, more eggshell and milk, less sugar/acid exposure for too long etc. My teeth have started moving- which feels super weird and not pleasant at all. The gums are sore, the teeth are sore, and the gum looks red and irritated. A quick google and there are many references to late stage pregancy gum and teeth pathologies similar to this, which coincides with high progesterone. Ray has mentioned that with supplemental progesterone it is quite easy to mimic progesterone levels in late pregnancy.

Now, in my limited progesterone experience, I don't doubt that it is a truly sensational hormone. And Ray always ends up being right...so, assuming it is a healing agent for gums....

I started taking ascorbic acid, after someone recommended it on another thread. No joke, one dose of 2500mg of ascorbic acid - I know that Ray doesn't recommend it at all - and my teeth already ridiculously calmer and less angry. I am wondering if I am on to something?

Ray, of course, wisely recommends upping foods generally like milk, orange juice and shellfish when supplementing things that will raise the metabolic rate. I did that already. But what could ever make vitamin C needs so high?

I am wondering what to make of the following :

Effects of ascorbic acid supplementation on serum progesterone levels in patients with a luteal phase defect.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12909517

This points towards the suggestion that serum progesterone is raised with vitamin c supplementation. Could the opposite also be true - as is true of so many vitamin, hormone and mineral interactions? Raise one and you create a deficiency of the other?

This isn't so much a "I need help, what do you suggest" post but rather, I was wondering if anyone thought that there could theoretically be a link between progesterone and vitamin c requirements.

Any insight greatly appreciated!
 

SaltGirl

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Could be.

I remember estrogen(at least in HRT) being discussed as something that depletes Vitamin C. Vitamin C also apparently increases absorption of vitamin C.

So if one hormone can affect your vitamin C levels then why not the other?
 

Brian

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Huh, I wonder if I'm experiencing something a little similar. I've been supplementing glycine for a few weeks. At first my nails and beard were growing much faster than normal, but in the last few days I've noticed some gum irritation. I think I may have depleted Vitamin C from greatly increased collagen synthesis. Although my diet hasn't been particularly very high in C lately. I'm sure I could use more anyways.

I wouldn't be surprised if progesterone had at least some kind of pro-collagen synthesis properties.
 

jimmyquick

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Brian said:
Huh, I wonder if I'm experiencing something a little similar. I've been supplementing glycine for a few weeks. At first my nails and beard were growing much faster than normal, but in the last few days I've noticed some gum irritation. I think I may have depleted Vitamin C from greatly increased collagen synthesis. Although my diet hasn't been particularly very high in C lately. I'm sure I could use more anyways.

I wouldn't be surprised if progesterone had at least some kind of pro-collagen synthesis properties.


I can report something similar as well. This past month I have also been adding glycine to my diet and eating a ton more shellfish. A few days ago I noticed some anxiety out of the blue that I have not felt in a long time since eating more peat friendly. Nothing too crazy, but just a tad more on edge that usual.(like jumpier at loud noises) I looked back through chronometer and realized I hadn't been drinking any orange juice and getting as much fruit as I normally do on the account of being out.

I immediately thought vitamin C, and sure enough, I was substantially lower this past week per day than normal. So yesterday I popped a couple grams of C spread out out through the day just to see what would happen. Possibly a coincidence, but by the end of the day, I was much more relaxed and the annoying, irritable edge had disappeared.

Ironically, I have been having some painful gum irritation as well, but hadn't attributed that to C so Im glad you mentioned that! I know many people here have reported that progesterone helps calm them down. It seems to be the same for me but with adequate vitamin C.
 

honeybee

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@Stilgar-Are you taking the progesterone in your mouth/gums?
 

SQu

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I've been wondering why I no longer have to supplement vitamin c to stop swollen gums even though cronometer suggests I often don't get quite enough vitamin c in my diet. I know I'm lowering estrogen so maybe that's why. Interesting, thanks!
 

Stilgar

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honeybee said:
@Stilgar-Are you taking the progesterone in your mouth/gums?

I usually use it topically on my wrists or back of my knees, because I have some spider veins on the back of one knee. I used it once on my gums, but decided against it because I hate the taste of vitamin e.

A few days on from starting vitamin c, I have had no ill effects (although my stomach is not incredibly sensitive these days), and it definitely is continuing to help my gums. They have been sore on and off a little, but nowhere like before, and overall seems to be improving, despite continuing progesterone.

The points made about glycine supplementation and estrogen are very interesting.

Perhaps progesterone is increasing metabolism generally, thereby increasing protein synthesis (incl. collagen) and thus requiring more vitamin c? The same with thyroid, glycine, etc.
 

tara

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Stilgar said:
Perhaps progesterone is increasing metabolism generally, thereby increasing protein synthesis (incl. collagen) and thus requiring more vitamin c? The same with thyroid, glycine, etc.
Wouldn't surprise me if this is part of it.
 

honeybee

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I use it topically also. I used to rub it on my gums, but found that it would irritate my gums and the taste is bleh so switched to topical application usually on tops of my feet and chest area (thin skin areas).
I have found vitamin k2 to be very helpful with teeth health. Since I have been using it consistently (to help with fatty liver and weight loss) the bonus effect has been zero tooth sensitivity and they seem more solid. Hard to describe.
 

Shrimp

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[moderator edit: threads merged]

Hi all,

Do you think Progest-E supplementation could cause issues with gum health? I have receding gums and gumline erosion/cavities at age 27 and after reading the following link am wondering if the Progest-E is to blame:

http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/pregna ... tis-tumors

"Pregnancy causes hormonal changes that increase your risk for developing oral health problems like gingivitis (inflammation of the gums) and periodontitis (gum disease). As a result of varying hormone levels, 40% of women will develop gingivitis sometime during their pregnancy -- a condition called pregnancy gingivitis.

The increased level of progesterone in pregnancy may make it easier for certain gingivitis-causing bacteria to grow, as well as make gum tissue more sensitive to plaque and exaggerate the body's response to the toxins (poisons) that result from plaque. In fact, if you already have significant gum disease, being pregnant may make it worse."

Could putting Progest-E directly on the gums be causing bacteria to proliferate? I'm not pregnant but I assume supplemental progesterone could have a similar effect if this is true. I'm stopping for now because I'm paranoid.
 

Peata

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I personally haven't had any gum problems using Progest E. IMO it's estrogen they should have talked about that causes the gum problems.
 

Peata

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Maybe that's a reason I haven't had gum problems with Progest E - I always get more than the RDA of vit. C. I just know my gums were heading toward bad shape before coming to the peat way.
 

DaveFoster

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i know Ray doesn't feel this way but I think it is wonderful. I am trying to incorporate liposomal C into the equation without the PUFAs but in any event, even regular C is great and super helpful for teeth issues and healing.
 

DaveFoster

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walker_in_aus

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Adding to this as a legit postulation. I searched the forum for bleeding gums yesterday because I've never had it before, and came across this thread. I've been supplementing progesterone for two months now with good results but out of nowhere I was having him irritation and some bleeding after brushing. I had two extra glasses of OJ, rinsed with bicarb and a half a teaspoon calcium ascorbate and in one day my gums didn't bleed after brushing. Tentatively confirm this thoryt, see how I go the rest of the week.
 

Sunrise

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I've been wondering why I no longer have to supplement vitamin c to stop swollen gums even though cronometer suggests I often don't get quite enough vitamin c in my diet. I know I'm lowering estrogen so maybe that's why. Interesting, thanks!
How did you lower it and how did you noticed it?
 

JenLN

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I did get bad gums from low dose progesterone. They are better now that I no longer use it. I also noticed bad gums while pregnant.
 
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