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Taurine (and Analogs) Increase T4 Into T3 Conversion 2-fold

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    The chemical used in the study is a very close analog of taurine, and in fact I think it contains the taurine molecule as a component. It was developed as a synthetic analog of taurine that can achieve the same effects at a much lower dosages. The dosage was 3mg-4mg human equivalent, but since it was not taurine, you'd need higher taurine dosage to achieve the same. TUDCA is more potent than taurine by a factor of abut 100. So, this means 300mg-400mg per day for a human should have a noticeable effect.
    Here is the study:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133948/
     
  2. lexis

    lexis Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    Can be used for increasing testosterone levels?
     
  3. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    Yep, it was discussed in this thread:

    viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2821

    I theorize the increase is partly due to higher dopamine, which activates the HPG axis and LH, and partly because the sex organs require taurine. I plan on ordering taurine and seeing if the LH increase irritates my testicles, since I had random testicular pain before I started supplementing pregnenolone, and I theorize it's due to LH decrease.

    It's good that taurine has this effect, since I had trouble converting T4 to T3 and required a T3 supplement.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    Some additional, popular science material on taurine and testosterone increase. The study claims increase of 180% of T as a result of 1 month of supplementation of taurine at human equivalent dosage of 15g.
    http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/07 ... one-w.html
    http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/08 ... sulin.html
    http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/09 ... nough.html

    I know that when I took 15g a day for a month my T levels wen up 4-5 fold but I was combining it with aspirin, which probably amplifies its effects. There is another thread in this forum where a user "complained" that taking aspirin caused big increase in T and SHBG.
     
  5. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    I've been loading up on taurine for about 4 days now (15 gr a day) and I can definitely say it increases my mood a lot. Also my vision is improved in that colors seem brighter. I thought I read somewhere that taurine is actually recognized as a neurotransmitter and is also located in high amounts in the retina.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't all that extra testosterone getting converted to estrogen?? Or is this no concern since you are not injecting testosterone exogenously but your body increases it endogenously from the taurine?
     
  6. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    Estrogen tends to rise if LH does when increasing testosterone, and exogeneous testosterone is probably only beneficial until LH is low. In the case of taurine, it increases testosterone by both increasing LH (which happens because it increases dopamine) and by providing nutrition to the testes. I have yet to see if taurine awakens my random testicular pain which I treat with pregnenolone, I hypothesize not since taurine likely is protective to the testes despite LH increase.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    I was certainly worried about T aromatizing into estrogen, hence the aspirin intake. Also, vitamin E helps keep estrogen under control as well. My estrogen did not increase while on taurine, but after 1 month of taurine intake the benefits reach a plateau and you can discontinue use. The endogenous taurine levels after a month of loading do not decrease until 2-3 months after discontinuation. Similar to creatine I guess.
     
  8. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Re: Taurine (and analogs) increase T4 into T3 conversion 2-f

    Aspirin can increase estrogen like thyroid can, although both . It similarly increases testosterone, and cortisol if taken in excess, which are two major factors in the formation of estrogen. One user reduced their dosage of aspirin because they were retaining water in areas where estrogen causes that.

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2916

    I haven't had any estrogenic symptoms from aspirin though, so I'm still taking 1/4 tsp of powder 3x daily. That's around 7 grams, right?
     
  9. Ulla

    Ulla Member

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    I added 3-5 g taurine ten days ago.
    My blood sample
    was taken after 7 days of supplementing taurine.

    30 days ago
    • TSH = 2.5
    • T4 = 12.1
    • T3 = 3.3

    3 days ago
    • TSH = 4.5
    • T4 = 10.8
    • T3 = 3.5

    I haven't noticed any special effects, don't sleep more or anything like that but could it be related to lower T4? I have more T3. And T3 = 3.5 is the highest I had in five years now...
     
  10. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    So why does T aromatize into estrogen?
    Does vitamin A which is said to increase dopamine raise LH as well? I don't understand how something that is against the pathway of hibernation/serotonin/estrogen could raise estrogens.

    Is increasing LH a probem if your tissues are depleted of PUFA?

    Maybe it comes from reduced or the aspirin will make estrogen go out of tissues?

    Not a good thing if your TSH levels raised so much...
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Why does T aromatize into estrogen? Because under stress, expressions of aromatase increase and it will use the T to synthesize estrogen. The estrogen is needed ins tress/trauma/etc to stimulate cell division and regeneration.
     
  12. whit

    whit Member

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    Peat says a healthy TSH should be no more than .4.
    I've yet to see it that low.
    I'm sure there are many factors to hacking TSH, environmental or otherwise.
    Too much of a good thing? Too much Testosterone?
    Perhaps taurine raises more than just test.
     
  13. NathanK

    NathanK Member

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    I read a study a few days ago that showed estrogen did not rise corollary with testosterone with taurine supplementation. Ill look to find it.

    I believe the main effects have to do with increased enzyme activity enhancing hormone conversion (would explain Haiduts study as well). In my experimentation a year ago, my testosterone increased substantially while my high cholesterol plummeted, which first led me to think this. My LH in the same labs before and after did not change much.

    Since supplementing 5g/day of taurine long term hasnt been studied and can have questionable production methods, ive made a concerted effort to eat a lb of shrimp a week since its high in taurine.

    Ulla, it may be that stress hormones were suppressing your TSH and when taurine lowered stress hormones it caused TSH to rise to its "true" level.

    Come to think of it, this may also be a reason people increase testosterone on taurine. Taurine may be lowering adrenaline in hypothyroid people, while increasing T4 conversion, and therefore lowering FFA, which has been shown to impair testosterone conversion
     
  14. NathanK

    NathanK Member

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    I stand partially corrected. Taurine both enhances conversion and elevate LH. Though taurine is abundant and used, and synthesized, in a multitude of ways in the body. I've attached the 2 related studies on the subject

    Effects of taurine on male reproduction in rats of different ages
    "The present study demonstrated that a taurine supplement could stimulate the secretion of LH and T, increase the levels of testicular marker enzymes, elevate testicular antioxidation and improve sperm quality. The results imply that taurine plays important roles in male reproduction especially in aged animals."

    Same Author
    CSD mRNA expression in rat testis and the effect of taurine
    on testosterone secretion

    "The in vivo results showed that taurine could stimulate
    the secretion of FSH, LH and testosterone in serum significantly.
    FSH, LH and testosterone were essential for
    male reproduction. It has been proved by our previous
    research that 1% beta-alanine added in water could significantly
    reduce serum testosterone of rats (Yang et al.
    2007). In addition, our unpublished results showed that
    taurine could promote the motility and survival rate of
    sperm in old rats. All these results indicated that taurine
    may be important for the process of steroidogenesis and
    spermatogenesis."

    An interesting note is that Beta Alanine decreases testosterone. I'm aware that they share the same transport so it's likely that's why it's often recommended to take the two together.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Kasper

    Kasper Member

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    I take a lot of taurine, should I also use beta aline to balance?
     
  16. Ulla

    Ulla Member

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    Thank you all for comment. I agree with that one about lowering stress hormones and coming to the true status of my thyroid.

    I will take another blood test in one month. It will be taken after 1,5 month of pufa depletion. So far I don't take taurine except 1 g before exercise, which is once or twice per week. I eat a lot /sugars,starches/protein.
    I am soo curious and will report here.
    Anyway. I am being off topic now.
     
  17. NathanK

    NathanK Member

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    Probably doesnt hurt. It's a "peaty-ish" substance. Giorgi likes it, iirc, but im not the biggest fan because of the tingling sensations and its not necessary for muscle protein synthesis. I take some that i have left over from an old workout supplement stash, but its always with taurine. If youre worried about transport issues, i think that debate was solved that the competition isnt enough to make it absolutely necessary to take together.
     
  18. whit

    whit Member

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    I believe the liver and its state of function is involved. Some women cannot handle larger amounts of asprin for simlar reasons. But small amounts are highly benficial.
    It seems to be the bottleneck of sorts. Dose is crucial.
     
  19. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Interesting. I notice T3 raises my estrogen too but I'm still not sure why
     
  20. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    because he takes thyroid supplements thats how he gets it so low
     
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