Caffeine Acts Like Supplemental Thyroid - It Suppresses TSH / GH

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Based on Ray's writings about caffeine being a surrogate for thyroid hormone, this study showed that caffeine suppresses both TSH and growth hormone (GH). Ingestion of Cynoplus or other equivalent product containing both T4 and T3 has been shown to have the same effects. The effective human dosages were 300mg-400mg caffeine for TSH suppression and 500mg-600mg for GH suppression.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6104718

    "...Caffeine lowered serum TSH and GH in a dose-dependent manner with ED50 values of 30 and approximately 50 mg/kg, respectively. TSH levels were depressed 1 to 6 hr after injection and correlated with serum caffeine levels greater than 20 micrograms/ml. The decrease in serum TSH was followed by decreases in serum 3,3',5-triiodothyroxine and thyroxine 4 hr after caffeine administration. Theophylline and theobromine had effects similar to those of caffeine on hormone levels."
     
  2. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    UK
  3. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,047
    Gender:
    Female
    Am i right in thinking that TSH is what stimulates the thyroid to synthesise and/or release T4 and T3? So would lowering TSH by drinking coffee potentially reduce the thyroid's production of T4 and T3? Could that be a contributing reason for coffee withdrawal issues in those of us who are a bit hypothyroid? I'm trying to get more of an idea about the mechanisms that make coffee problematic for me, because I'd like to be able to drink more of it.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    That's a good point but I thought that high TSH suggests your body thinks you are hypothyroid while low TSH means the thyroid is working well. Hopefully others will chime in as well and add more info.
     
  5. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,047
    Gender:
    Female
    I thought low TSH meant the body (pituitary?) thinks there is enough thyroid (T4?), so it doesn't think it should actively stimulate more. Does caffeine suppress TSH by increasing T4, or is TSH directly suppressed by the caffiene? If it's the former, then that's great. If the latter, couldn't that be fooling the body into thinking there is enough T4 when there isn't really? And then when caffeine levels drop (as they inevitably do during a decent night's sleep, even if you drink through the day), you'd might be left with less caffeine, less T4, and less T3 than you had before drinking the coffee in the first place?
    I guess the question is, does caffeine down-regulate, upregulate or leave unchanged T4 production?
    Even if it doesn't alter T4 production, couldn't temporarily increasing the rate of conversion of T4 to T3 (isn't this one of the things caffeine does?), even while T4 production remains constant, result in a reduction in T4 levels and therefore a subsequent reduction in T3, after a strong cup of coffee has worn off?

    It's an issue for me because I suspect that a slump in night-time energy production might be why I'm more likely to wake up with migraine already underway if I drink much caffeine the day before. At the moment, caffeine seems short term helpful, but then leaves me susceptible to worse migraine after a day or two. If there was a way to make it work for me, I'd be very pleased.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    The quote from the study above says that caffeine reduced both plasma T4 and T3 levels within 4 hours of administration. Why both T4 and T3 were reduced is not explained in the abstract, but I think your hunch is correct that caffeine may cause headaches in some people by lowering T4 and T3, and after caffeine effects wear off those people may be feeling worse.
     
  7. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,047
    Gender:
    Female
    OK, ta. Doesn't that make using caffeine as a surrogate for thyroid potentially problematic for many people who have sub-optimal thyroid production?
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    It's possible but hard to say without seeing some studies. If the person is hypothyroid then the body may prevent further depletion of T4 and T3 by caffeine as a defensive mechanism. Or, caffeine could lower those hormones even more. If someone hypothyroid can take some caffeine between two blood tests for thyroid status then we'd have a better idea.
    On the other hand, caffeine increases BMR even in hypothyroid people so it does act like thyroid hormone. If these people do not intend on supplementing with thyroid hormone then caffeine and aspirin would be among their few options for raising metabolism even temporarily. There was another study showing lower dosage of caffeine (250mg) did not result in any change in thyroid hormones (or pituitary hormones) while still increasing BMR by about 5%. So, maybe that's a solution for those hypothyroid people - take repeated lower dose caffeine until health improves. Once again, it seems that how one reacts to caffeine is a good measure of overall thyroid/health status, as I mentioned in another thread a few months ago.
     
  9. Waremu

    Waremu Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    517
    Gender:
    Male
    Notice how plasma T3 and T4 were reduced within four hours of consuming the caffeine. The body produces 4mcg T3 every hour, if I recall correctly. Perhaps this could just be pro-thyroid effects of caffeine wearing off by the 3-4th hour mark? If a study like this was done on hypothyroid people who would not be producing sufficient thyroid hormone and caffeine does act as a substitute for or stimulate thyroid, perhaps two options for the reduction in plasma T4 and T3 levels could either be caused by A) the pro-thyroid effects of caffeine wearing off, in which a return to the hypothyroid state would occur, which, in turn, could be misperceived as the caffeine itself reducing plasma thyroid levels by the 3rd or 4th hour, or B) caffeine being consumed incorrectly, which causes a stress response and surge in stress hormones such as adrenaline and cortisol which are anti-thyroid and can also reduce plasma thyroid levels. Just a few ideas to throw out there on that.

    I found one study which seems to test out a drug and also caffeine on a few groups separately and the results with the caffeine groups showed a significant increase in both T4 and T3 levels it seems. Here is a quote from the study:


    "Effect of Paracetamol and caffeine in structure and function of thyroid gland in male rats"

    Ihsan Raisan Ibrahim
    Biology department/College of education /AL-Qadisiyah University"

    Abstract:

    "Paracetamol is a widly used drug as analgesic and antibyretic, also caffeine is a widly consumed as substance found in coffee, black tea ,green tea and cocoa. This study designed to know the effect of caffeine and paracetamol in the thyroid activity.Thirty six male rats randomly divided to six groups, first group considered as a control group, second group was given paracetamol at dose 500mg /kg .Third and fourth groups were given caffeine at dose 7.5mg/kg and 14 mg/kg of body weight respectively,while fifth and sixth groups were given paracetamol at dose 500mg/kg to both groups and caffeine was given at doses 7.5 mg/kg and 14 mg/kg to both groups respectively. In the and of treatment period animals were weighed and blood samples collected for determination T3,T4 and TSH levels , livre enzymes (GPT,GOT and ALP), creatinine and urea. Thyroid gland was removed for histological preparation, histological study involved the height of follicular cell and diameter of thyroid follicle..."

    "Results showed that in both groups treated with caffeine (groups C1 and C2)significant increase occured in levels of T3 and T4 in addition to non- significant increase in TSH as compard with the control group inconstant there was significant decrease in T3,T4 and TSH in group treated with paracetamol ( grpup P) compared with the control group. In histological study results recorded significant increase in diameter of thyroid follicle in group treated with caffeine at dose 14 mg/kg(groupC2) compared with control group ,while there was significant increase in group P compared with P,PC1,PC2 and control groups . Statistical analysis showed significant decrease in GPT,GOT,ALP creatinine and urea levels in group C1 and C2 compared with control group,while threre was heigh significant increase in these levels in group P compared with other groups. It was concluded that administration of caffeine with paracetamol decrease the effects of paracetamol on thyroid gland activity and some biochemical parameters."

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... RsfKzjVLzg
     
  10. dookie

    dookie Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    518
    Gender:
    Male
    Caffeine at those levels often raise cortisol, and cortisol reduces TSH. Could it simply be a high cortisol response from the caffeine which causes the reduced TSH?

    I don't think we should ignore the possibilities of caffeine raising the stress hormones, cortisol, adrenaline, lactate,... Shown clearly to happen in multiple studies, although other studies don't show significant changes. The individual response may vary.
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Agreed, the caffeine response is very individual-specific. However, in this case caffeine also suppressed GH, which cortisol is known to increase a LOT. So, I am not sure cortisol is the main mechanism here, even though it could be involved as well.
     
  12. Miggie

    Miggie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Messages:
    79
    It says the t4 and t3 was reduced in serum. Perhaps because of the caffeine the t3 was transported to the cells therefore no longer being in the serum. There are lots of people who take t3 and have perfect blood levels however they still have hypo symptoms.
     
  13. docall18

    docall18 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    302
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    LA
    Didnt Ray Peat say that caffeine and aspirin can act as thyroid in the body..
     
  14. mirc12354

    mirc12354 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    279
    Is there any danger in taking high doses caffeine (say 300 mg + daily) if your TSH is already under 1 (0,91 to be exact)? Could taking additional caffeine in this case cause a surge in cortisol?? Just wondering since I have noticed quite an increase in midsection bodyfat since increasing my caffeine.
     
  15. hclh

    hclh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    For me caffeine is a rather complicated issue. In one hand I like my cup of coffee in the morning and I feel great with it. However, on the other hand, I have the genetic polymorphism of a poor caffeine metabolyzer (cytochrome P450 polymorphism) so caffeine is going around in my body much more time than a normal person.
    Additionally I have a mild hypothyroidism.
    Therefore this post is quite confusing for me, what to do?
    Is good caffeine for me?
    Is it not?
    Human body is very complicated :):
    Isn't it?
     
  16. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,858
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Writer
    Location:
    Spokane, Washington
    I was wondering the same thing; good thoughts.
     
  17. docall18

    docall18 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    302
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    LA
    I actually found a Peat quote saying there is no substitute for thyroid.
     
  18. docall18

    docall18 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    302
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    LA
    What i believe caffeine does, is allow thyroid to be used better by your body. I have found i get a great response taking caffeine with thyroid aspirin etc, however taking caffeine alone has limited effects.

    Also when i take thyroid without caffeine it produces a supressed TSH and high free thyroid levels. Taking the same dose with caffeine produces lower free thyroid levels and a slightly higher TSH.
     
  19. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,944
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Econ Student
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I recall Peat writing extensively on the benefits of lowerin TSH, how it is essentially a stress hormone that fills in when thyroid is lacking. However, I dont recall him addressing GH in any of his articles. Is GH something to be concerned with keeping low? He is a fan of milk and milk has gh. He is does not seem to be botherred by the IGF-1 in milk either. I have read that gh is linked to certain cancers, although I ahve a feeling that is correlative. Many bodybuidler like to increase GH because not only does it increase lean tissue mass, it makes you taller and helps burn fat away like a blowtorch (apparently.)
     
  20. papaya

    papaya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    284
    Gender:
    Female
    Wow, so it sounds like taking thyroid in the evening & caffeine morning through afternoon would be ideal. Btw, I remember hearing pre peat that u shouldn't drink coffee with thyroid meds because it interferes/prevents proper absorption.
     
Loading...