Chronic Caffeine Ingestion Increases T And DHT Levels

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haidut

haidut

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Me: Hey Ray! I know you've mentioned in the past that large doses of progesterone can lower libido for men but can it cause feminization for men as well? Like not just neotenous features but breast development and wider womanly hips.

Ray:No, it can’t do those things.

High doses of progesterone do tend to have anti-androgenic effects and that is something he has said repeatedly. Also, you can test this yourself. Try a 100mg progesterone dose and see if that won't numb your penis or lower libido. These side effects disappear or can be greatly lessened when progesterone is combined with DHEA or even T.
 

ilikecats

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@haidut I acknowledged that it can lower libido (in that email as you can see) due to its mild anti testosterone effect and I acknowledged that Ray has said that. My issue is that you said that it feminizes men (I think you meant in large amounts but still that’s not accurate). To me (and I think most) feminizing means promoting breasts and wider womanly hips . Ray said that that’s not possible- men won't get breasts no matter how much progesterone they take. I don’t think I’m splitting hairs here this distinction has real world implications. I’ve experimented with high dosages of progesterone to good effect (up to a gram at a time) but I stopped because I was worried about developing womanly hips and breasts due to comments like these (not just from you) and my own biases even though applying large amounts of progesterone to my chest has resulted in a reduction in chest fat. Healthy male children have very low testosterone levels, are they feminized? Quite the opposite, healthy male children will have small completely flat chests with almost zero fat on them with very small nipples (feel weird pointing that out but okay) even if they're not particularly lean. And they have narrow hips with very little fat on them.

"Progesterone feminizes both sexes" - this is the quote I'm adressing
 
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brix

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High doses of progesterone do tend to have anti-androgenic effects and that is something he has said repeatedly. Also, you can test this yourself. Try a 100mg progesterone dose and see if that won't numb your penis or lower libido. These side effects disappear or can be greatly lessened when progesterone is combined with DHEA or even T.

Do you think test in DMSO or Tocopherols would be better absorbed?
 
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haidut

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Do you think test in DMSO or Tocopherols would be better absorbed?

You mean which solvent absorbs better? DMSO would excel topically and the tocopherol version would absorb better if taken orally. But the oral tocopherol route would still probably lag behind the transdermal absorption effectiveness of DMSO.
 
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Anyone dosing Caffeine on a regular basis, say 250-300mg and getting fatter? or is it (for you) only beneficial :):
 

NewACC

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Caffiene intake is definitely linked to higher free testosterone levels. As this study shows, it is also a 5-AR catalyst, the enzyme which converts testosterone to DHT. All of this seems great for any male with impotence, low androgen levels, athletes, etc.

However, please keep in mind some of caffienes other affects. Chiefly, as Peat demonstrates, it progesterone stimulator. Progesterone opposes DHT significantly, and testosterone somewhat. This may nullify the effect of T/DHT increase. I even suspect, perhaps, the androgen increase is a reactionary pituitary response to the more profound progesterone effect.

I know it's mere anecdote, but as a Post-finesteride suffer I know all to well the abysmal, listless feeling of low-to-nonexistent DHT. When I consume copious amounts of coffee I definitely experience lower DHT levels, which have confirmed by lab assays performed on and off coffee.

I do, however, feel good when I restrict my consumption to one or two cups a day. The point I would like to get across is that the actions of caffeine and mechanisms about which it influences can not be described as simple-nutrition and hormones are far from an exact science and there is much variability within individuality.
Most likely, you feel too much adrenaline and serotonin from low dht
 

NewACC

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Caffiene intake is definitely linked to higher free testosterone levels. As this study shows, it is also a 5-AR catalyst, the enzyme which converts testosterone to DHT. All of this seems great for any male with impotence, low androgen levels, athletes, etc.

However, please keep in mind some of caffienes other affects. Chiefly, as Peat demonstrates, it progesterone stimulator. Progesterone opposes DHT significantly, and testosterone somewhat. This may nullify the effect of T/DHT increase. I even suspect, perhaps, the androgen increase is a reactionary pituitary response to the more profound progesterone effect.

I know it's mere anecdote, but as a Post-finesteride suffer I know all to well the abysmal, listless feeling of low-to-nonexistent DHT. When I consume copious amounts of coffee I definitely experience lower DHT levels, which have confirmed by lab assays performed on and off coffee.

I do, however, feel good when I restrict my consumption to one or two cups a day. The point I would like to get across is that the actions of caffeine and mechanisms about which it influences can not be described as simple-nutrition and hormones are far from an exact science and there is much variability within individuality.
Most likely, you feel too much adrenaline and serotonin from low dht
 
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