Chronic Caffeine Ingestion Increases T And DHT Levels

[TubZy]

Many weightlifters as in the Olympic lifts, use Caffeine and say that is helps lift bigger weights. Not sure if that would have anything to do with DHT, more likely is a neuro-muscular amplifying thing. Jacks the cNS and whatnot.

Yes, well DHT also stimulates the central nervous system promoting increase in strength. I also experimented with DHT only compounds in the past and noticed the same thing in terms of strength. Hence why a lot of MMA fighters get caught with DHT derived steroids all the time (masteron for example). You won't put any weight on (since it doesn't aromatize) but your strength shoots through the roof.

So anything that stimulates the central nervous system in general could benefit for strength.

 

[japanesedude]

As a former power-lifter, my input is that yes the strength increase from caffeine are likely from the nervous stimulation. Neural networking is responsible for power recruitment within the muscle fibers, and caffeine primes these nerves very well. I was always able to lift a bit more after dosing caffeine,

However since having problems with androgen sensitivity and 5-AR inhibitors, using caffiene definitely has a cumulative negative affect on androgens. I think it increase progesterone, or at least has a very strong progesterone-like effect. Progesterone is chemically similar to finasteride and opposes DHT, so caffeine is not something someone struggling with low DHT/T levels wants to be using. I have incurred many panic attacks and symptoms after using caffeine since being low DHT, and looking at the science/chemicals involved that makes sense to me.

Granted any increase in serum DHT levels, these are negligible considering the opposing progesterone affect.

Same here.
Drinking Coffee without meal Especially in the evening and at night　gives me super stressful react. sometimes I even get small panic attack.
Coffee also kill my libido and penis sensitivity.
so basically I have to stay away from coffee before Im having sexual activity. atleast 4-5 hours

 

[sladerunner69]

Same here.
Drinking Coffee without meal Especially in the evening and at night　gives me super stressful react. sometimes I even get small panic attack.
Coffee also kill my libido and penis sensitivity.
so basically I have to stay away from coffee before Im having sexual activity. atleast 4-5 hours

Yeah it's weird how it kills the sensitivity down there. After my first couple coffees I actually get a lot of spontaneous erections and become pretty virile. Then by the end of the day its gone and I abrely have any sensitivty. I think it must be icreasing progesterone a lot.

Strangely enough i think androsterone lowers my libido as well, and drinking alcohol raises it. I think its because my estrogen si already low and androsterone lwoers it too much and alcohol gives me a little mroe.

 

[japanesedude]

Yeah it's weird how it kills the sensitivity down there. After my first couple coffees I actually get a lot of spontaneous erections and become pretty virile. Then by the end of the day its gone and I abrely have any sensitivty. I think it must be icreasing progesterone a lot.

Strangely enough i think androsterone lowers my libido as well, and drinking alcohol raises it. I think its because my estrogen si already low and androsterone lwoers it too much and alcohol gives me a little mroe.

When I drink coffee, I get libido but it is around 30 minutes after drinking. but it always kills my penis sensitivity and orgasm.
I started to take 4drops of MCT Pansterone sublingally 2days ago. but according to Idealab Custommer service, its gonna take 100+hours to get a result so I still don't get any kind of effects from it.

However, use Androsterone only on scrotum kills my libido too. When my estrogen went too low, I get diarrhea,bloating,brainfog,dryjoint,no libido,depression, feel like empty.
using Pansterone(DMSO) with Androsterone gives me ton of benefits such as raise my bodytemperature, increase hunger, increase strength etc...
It also seems that Pansterone helping dryjoints from Androsterone.
but still, Androsterone kills my libido,orgasm intensity,and erection.
50mg P5P helped sexual side effects from Androsterone. but I can't sleep on P5P so I may try 10mg Pyridoxine or Energin for dopamine.
anyway, Prolactin Inhibitor always help my sexual ability.

 

[dookie]

When my estrogen went too low, I get diarrhea,bloating,brainfog,dryjoint,no libido,depression, feel like empty..

Those are symptoms of high estrogen. How exactly are you connecting bloating with low estrogen?

 

[japanesedude]

Estrogen affects the stress hormone cortisol, subsequently, when estrogen levels decline, cortisol levels rise which raises both blood pressure and blood sugars
This is a common issues in Perimenopause.
In my case, Its more like a gassy.I also peeing like a hell.
High E2 and Low E2 symptoms are very similar.

 

[sladerunner69]

When I drink coffee, I get libido but it is around 30 minutes after drinking. but it always kills my penis sensitivity and orgasm.
I started to take 4drops of MCT Pansterone sublingally 2days ago. but according to Idealab Custommer service, its gonna take 100+hours to get a result so I still don't get any kind of effects from it.

However, use Androsterone only on scrotum kills my libido too. When my estrogen went too low, I get diarrhea,bloating,brainfog,dryjoint,no libido,depression, feel like empty.
using Pansterone(DMSO) with Androsterone gives me ton of benefits such as raise my bodytemperature, increase hunger, increase strength etc...
It also seems that Pansterone helping dryjoints from Androsterone.
but still, Androsterone kills my libido,orgasm intensity,and erection.
50mg P5P helped sexual side effects from Androsterone. but I can't sleep on P5P so I may try 10mg Pyridoxine or Energin for dopamine.
anyway, Prolactin Inhibitor always help my sexual ability.

Interesting it sounds like we are very alike in our reaction to these substances. But you are saying your pansterone sovled the lower libido from androsterone? Are you post-finasteride? When I take pansterone I get kind of irritable, when I take androsterone with pansterone I get SUPER irritable. Maybe that's just me. Energin did help me with dopamine I think becasue of the low dose of p5p which I beleive at higherdoses may cause nueropathy. Yes my prolactin was high for some time but I think I lowerred it with normal b6 and calcium over a long period of time. I still have issues with my libido and mental stamina though.

Those are symptoms of high estrogen. How exactly are you connecting bloating with low estrogen?

 

[japanesedude]

Yeah It is funny! We seem to react in the same way to various substances. We both may have similar hormonal profile. btw,I am 23 Japanese male. and I 've never used Finasteride.
When I use Pansterone only, My libido seems fine. but stack with Androsterone kills my libido. and ofcourse,DHEA and Androsterone always irritates me.
50mg P5P looks too much for me. I got insominia and bit nerve pain from it so I don't took anymore.
When I was a teenager, I got testicle pain randomly, had low libido, low erection, low orgasm. pubertal gyno.
It seems that I was suffer from low testosterone/high estrogen for some reason.

but I guess that I have Low Estrogen rightnow.
dry joints, flat mood,irritation,low libido,waterly semen, low erection, low orgasm etc.

because, I know that High Estrogen symptoms.
infact, I got a lot of High Estrogen symptoms from 50mg DHEA orally which is study shows that increase Estrogen big time for male.
mania/super irritate/hige mood swing/high libido/increased semen volume/strong orgasm etc
Low Estrogen cause depression and High Estrogen cause mania.

 

[RobertJM]

Yeah it's weird how it kills the sensitivity down there. After my first couple coffees I actually get a lot of spontaneous erections and become pretty virile. Then by the end of the day its gone and I abrely have any sensitivty. I think it must be icreasing progesterone a lot.

Strangely enough i think androsterone lowers my libido as well, and drinking alcohol raises it. I think its because my estrogen si already low and androsterone lwoers it too much and alcohol gives me a little mroe.

Is this still your opinion of caffeine, re: DHT levels?

I have a huge coffee intake (perhaps almost a gram of caffeine per day), and have given up a few times for a space of about a week and it never results in me feeling anything that might be increasing by way of DHT. Without the caffeine (and other benefits contained in the coffee therein), my extremities lose temperature and my bowels almost stop working lol. It’s definitely pro-thyroid for me. In fact, works ‘too well’, and my body definitely relies on it and almost needs it really.

Maybe I could try and adapt to a much lower dosage and see if it improves anything.

But yes, being off coffee and eliminating caffeine is anything but pro-sexual for me.

 

[Cirion]

Is this still your opinion of caffeine, re: DHT levels?

I have a huge coffee intake (perhaps almost a gram of caffeine per day), and have given up a few times for a space of about a week and it never results in me feeling anything that might be increasing by way of DHT. Without the caffeine (and other benefits contained in the coffee therein), my extremities lose temperature and my bowels almost stop working lol. It’s definitely pro-thyroid for me. In fact, works ‘too well’, and my body definitely relies on it and almost needs it really.

Maybe I could try and adapt to a much lower dosage and see if it improves anything.

But yes, being off coffee and eliminating caffeine is anything but pro-sexual for me.

I find caffeine only acutely beneficial for me personally... if I have it once, though, I end up "needing" it.

Maybe you're experiencing the same? Once you start, build up a dependence, and without it... feel bad.

I know so many studies have been done, but every time I try to bring up caffeine I end up building "Dependence" on it and "need" it to feel normal. When I go 100% caffeine free after a few days I feel fine. THe problem is, I inevitably have one day of bad sleep, end up "wanting caffeine to wake up"... it does the job great (because no caffeine adaption anymore), and then every day thereafter I'll "need" it because caffeine just drains me. In that sense caffeine is "pro-thyroid" vs. the bad effects of withdrawal.

I tried it again this week, first day or so great... and then once again, I got dependent, could not bring my temps up without (Whereas before I could get 98.6F+ easily without the coffee, now I can't). So, I'll be ditching it, yet again lol.

 

[TheBeard]

There have been several threads on this forum about raising testosterone (T) levels in males, and especially dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels. DHT is considered the "king" of male hormones since it does not aromatize into estrogen (E), has very strong anabolic (i.e. building muscle and reducing fat), and is actually a very potent anti-estrogen itself (it fully inhibits the aromatase enzyme, so prevents the conversion of T into E). I think Peat has written about it and considers it safe as opposed to regular T, which he has said is implicated in diseases such as ALS.
After getting consistently higher libido and almost suspicious increases in weight lifting strength from doses of caffeine in the 200mg-400mg range, I suspected that it has an effect on DHT, T, and even serotonin. I did some digging around, and indeed there is a study with rats that shows chronic, moderate, caffeine ingestion increased T levels by 68% and DHT levels by 57%.

Chronic caffeine intake increases androgenic stimuli, epithelial cell proliferation and hyperplasia in rat ventral prostate

Approximate human dosage:

"...The caffeine dose was chosen to simulate moderate human caffeine consumption (approximately 2–4 mg/kg/day)".

While 68% increases in T are not something dramatic, a 57% increase in DHT would be very anabolic and something bodybuilders can only dream about achieving using steroids. Since a lot of us on this forum also take caffeine with aspirin, that may result in even bigger increases in these androgenic hormones.
If anybody is taking extra caffeine and doing a blood test as part of their Peating experience maybe you can ask for T/DHT numbers as well. It would be helpful to know if this effect translates into humans, even though I suspect that for me it does.

@haidut

Would you say these androgenic effects also occur when one ingests unroasted green coffee?

I am trying to minimize my toxins burden and figured I would drink green coffee without the chemicals induced by the roasting process

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Would you say these androgenic effects also occur when one ingests unroasted green coffee?

I am trying to minimize my toxins burden and figured I would drink green coffee without the chemicals induced by the roasting process

Hard to say as coffee contains a lot more than just caffeine. But it should still be beneficial.

 

[TheBeard]

Hard to say as coffee contains a lot more than just caffeine. But it should still be beneficial.

I would think if anything there’s more of all the coffee compounds as we are not destroying them through roasting.

Maybe my intuition is wrong

 

[KyrieEleison]

What effect does this caffeine have on females and female sex hormones?

 

[Constatine]

What effect does this caffeine have on females and female sex hormones?

It increases progesterone in the serum and tissues. It seems to also lower estrogen slightly.

 

[broozer]

in my experience caffee espresso arabica beans feel very androgenic. instant oily nose and face skin. but its hit or miss.as overdose might give inccreeased anxiety with opposite effects.

 

[haidut]

It increases progesterone in the serum and tissues. It seems to also lower estrogen slightly.

In high doses it can actually destroy the estrogen "receptor" rendering the cell impervious to the effects of estrogen.
Caffeine Is A Potent Anti-estrogen; Can Block Estrogen "receptor" Completely

@KyrieEleison

 

[KyrieEleison]

In high doses it can actually destroy the estrogen "receptor" rendering the cell impervious to the effects of estrogen.
Caffeine Is A Potent Anti-estrogen; Can Block Estrogen "receptor" Completely

@KyrieEleison

Is that good or bad for feminisation of females?

 

[haidut]

Is that good or bad for feminisation of females?

Estrogen has nothing to do with feminization of females. It is not a female hormone, males can produce as much or even more than females when stressed. Estrogen can feminizes males and masculinize females. Progesterone feminizes both sexes.
Besides, the caffeine doses needed for this effect are really high.

 

[ilikecats]

Estrogen has nothing to do with feminization of females. It is not a female hormone, males can produce as much or even more than females when stressed. Estrogen can feminizes males and masculinize females. Progesterone feminizes both sexes.
Besides, the caffeine doses needed for this effect are really high.

Relevant

Me: Hey Ray! I know you've mentioned in the past that large doses of progesterone can lower libido for men but can it cause feminization for men as well? Like not just neotenous features but breast development and wider womanly hips.

Ray:No, it can’t do those things.