Starting Fludrocortisone - Anything I need to be aware of?

[Callmestar]

My Endocrinologist has prescribed me Fludrocortisone on a trial basis to see if it may help with my current symptoms of dehydration, dry mouth and frequent urination. Aside from this I have some mild symptoms of low blood pressure, dizziness on standing up, general feeling weak, depleted and fatigued.

The idea being that I may have a low Adrenal Aldosterone problem and Fludrocortisone will hopefully improve this. Although my Cortisol levels appear normal.

I am awaiting aldosterone and renin bloods but it's proving a nightmare to get them done where I am and may be a long wait so my endo and I are happy to give the Fludrocortisone ago before the bloods based on my symptoms.

I know a couple of others on the forum take this medication and I wondered if there's anything I need to be mindful of while taking this? I'll be starting at a low dose of 0.1mg a day.

I am attempting to eat in a Peat style and supplementing with T3 based on some of the advice here. As of yet I've seen no improvement in symptoms and am desperate for some relief so will give the Fludrocortisone a try. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Elize]

I have similar symptoms but have not tried any hydrocortisone. Would love to hear it helps at all

 

[Korven]

Sounds a lot like Addison's disease/adrenal failure.

If you feel better with taking fludrocortisone then it's likely an adrenal issue. I think the standard treatment is fludrocortisone + hydrocortisone but I'm not sure if that healthy long-term.

Have you tried supplementing pregnenolone, 50-100 mg per day? It's great for adrenal support and quite safe in large doses. Here's one anecdote of an individual fixing adrenal insufficiency with just 30 mg pregnenolone daily Addison's Disease - Prednisone replaced by Pregnenolone. Licorice can also kind of work as a mineralocorticoid agonist, helps with retaining water and minerals (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199110243251706). But it's more of a band-aid solution.

Theoretically adrenal gland extract should also work (The Treatment of Addison's Disease by Whole Adrenal Gland) but I felt horribly adrenalized and unwell when taking it so wouldn't necessarily recommend.

Ray has some good quotes on adrenal insufficiency and I believe his stance is that the basic cause is untreated hypothyroidism:

“Thyroid is needed for the adrenals to function well, and adequate cholesterol, as raw material. It’s popular to talk about ‘weak adrenals,’ but the adrenal cortex regenerates very well. Animal experimenters can make animals that lack the adrenal medulla by scooping out everything inside the adrenal capsule, and the remaining cells quickly regenerate the steroid producing tissues, the cortex. So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

 

[Callmestar]

I have similar symptoms but have not tried any hydrocortisone. Would love to hear it helps at all

I'll be on Fludrocortisone (replacing Aldosterone) rather than Hydrocortisone (replacing Cortisol) but I'll definitely feedback.

 

[Callmestar]

Sounds a lot like Addison's disease/adrenal failure.

If you feel better with taking fludrocortisone then it's likely an adrenal issue. I think the standard treatment is fludrocortisone + hydrocortisone but I'm not sure if that healthy long-term.

Have you tried supplementing pregnenolone, 50-100 mg per day? It's great for adrenal support and quite safe in large doses. Here's one anecdote of an individual fixing adrenal insufficiency with just 30 mg pregnenolone daily Addison's Disease - Prednisone replaced by Pregnenolone. Licorice can also kind of work as a mineralocorticoid agonist, helps with retaining water and minerals (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199110243251706). But it's more of a band-aid solution.

Theoretically adrenal gland extract should also work (The Treatment of Addison's Disease by Whole Adrenal Gland) but I felt horribly adrenalized and unwell when taking it so wouldn't necessarily recommend.

Ray has some good quotes on adrenal insufficiency and I believe his stance is that the basic cause is untreated hypothyroidism:

“Thyroid is needed for the adrenals to function well, and adequate cholesterol, as raw material. It’s popular to talk about ‘weak adrenals,’ but the adrenal cortex regenerates very well. Animal experimenters can make animals that lack the adrenal medulla by scooping out everything inside the adrenal capsule, and the remaining cells quickly regenerate the steroid producing tissues, the cortex. So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

Yes, an Adrenal issue but my Cortisol is generally normal/high so I won't be taking Hydrocortisone. I could be going down completely the wrong track but the suspicion is a rare case of low Aldosterone with high/normal Cortisol.

For sure I don't want to be taking medication like this long term but it should be a good experiment to see if it helps. If it does help, I will certainly look at ways to heal the adrenals.

I've not tried pregnenolone or liquorice, but certainly will if it's established that there is an Adrenal insufficiency.

 

[Elize]

Pregnenolone gave me terrible headache

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Don't take fluoridated drugs. Ever.

 

[Callmestar]

Don't take fluoridated drugs. Ever.

If only the choice were that simple. I'd love to not take it but the symptoms are likely causing me more damage than the use of a medication at this point.

Can you explain in a little more detail? What is the main problem with such drugs and Fludrocortisone specifically? Does it contain dangerous levels of Fluoride?

 

[Ihor]

"Another clue that your aldosterone may be too low?? Never finding stable DATS–you just keep going higher and higher with the HC or Adrenal Cortex and end up on too much!!"
- If hydrocortisone supplements don't work it means that you can have low aldosterone and sodium.

"Aldosterone: Can You Start Taking Florinef Without First Getting Tested?"​

"Hi ********
I started a long mail, got interrupted and when I got back to it, there were so many posts to you on the subject and the all overriding advice from Dr. Peatfield, which is, of course, the one to follow.

However, just to explain a little about Florinef and how it works. So, for what it’s worth, below is what I had written earlier. You might find it helps a little to detangle the confusion you are in at the moment. It’s just a little background info on Florinef from a practical point of view. As I see it, you need to know exactly how Florinef works, in order to determine whether or not it might be what you need.

In my opinion it would be wrong and not without risk to try Florinef without testing.

I don’t know your full story, and without being aware of the full picture it would be wrong, even be dangerous, for me to give any advice. However, in my personal view, it is highly risky to experiment with glucocorticoids and/or mineralcorticoids without the proper guidance of a doctor.

30 mg HC are according to Dr. Peatfield (in his chapter on the adrenal connection) above the physiological replacement dosage of 15-20 mg/day. There is a big distinction between physiological cortisone replacement and therapeutic cortisone dosages and in my view, by going up to 30 mg you might be going into deep waters if you did it off your own accord.

Florinef is a mineralcorticoid (as opposed to a glucocorticoid) and it is the drug that is used for people with primary Addison’s disease or at least it *should* be used, rather than the HC, which most doctors are using instead, because not many endos have hand-on experience with Addison’s. Primary Addison’s in humans is extremely rare – I read that 1 in 100.000 people suffer from it; although I have come across Addison’s in dogs hundreds of times on our forums AD in dogs it is no longer rare at all, although the knowledge of proper treatment for them lags behind with most vets just as much as it lags behind with human endocrinologists.

However, the point of my message is . be very careful if experimenting with Florinef. The function of Florinef is to bring up the sodium and to lower the potassium which is why it is the right drug for Addisonian people. Someone with Addison’s will have very low Sodium levels and very high potassium levels and this is a life threatening condition.

In my view it would make more sense to try and find out what your adrenals are really doing. Since you are having trouble getting an aldosterone test, one very simple way of finding out if something is seriously adrift is to ask your GP for an Electrolyte test that would be checking Sodium (Na) and Potassium (K) and it’s a cheap standard test. I would imagine, that you might have low sodium levels . but the burning question is where is your potassium? You need to know, because if your potassium were low as well as your sodium, and you then took Florinef, you could do damage. The Florinef would lower your potassium even further, whilst your sodium would rise. you might finish up with serious heart and kidney complications.

Just as a guideline for you Lab ref ranges differ slightly, but usually the ref range for Na (sodium) is between 138-160 or thereabouts. The ref range for Potassium (K) is roughly between 3.8-6.0 as I said, the exact figures differ from lab to lab and you’d need to find out the figures your lab is using.

A healthy Na:K ratio would be one that turns out to be in the low to mid thirties, a worrying one is below 27. But I have to stress that one can’t judge by the ratio figure alone. You’d need to look at the whole picture and the relation between sodium and potassium figures.

You get the ratio be dividing the lower figure (Potassium) into the higher figure (Sodium) – for example. lets say for arguments sake that the Na is 140 and the potassium 4.8

140 divided by 4.8 = ~29.2 – which would mean, that the adrenals are not functioning brilliantly (the sodium is too low) but this is not Addison’s disease. If with a reading like that you’d take Florinef, the potassium -which is a good reading with 4.8, and you did not really want it to come down (!) would come down, whilst the sodium goes up. It’s a very fine balance, and if you got it wrong, you could finish up in dire straights.

As a rule of thumb good figures to aim for would be a sodium in the middle of the norm range (around the 145-148 mark) and a potassium figure around 4.5 certainly not above 5 and not below 4."

 

[Callmestar]

"Another clue that your aldosterone may be too low?? Never finding stable DATS–you just keep going higher and higher with the HC or Adrenal Cortex and end up on too much!!"
- If hydrocortisone supplements don't work it means that you can have low aldosterone and sodium.

"Aldosterone: Can You Start Taking Florinef Without First Getting Tested?"​

"Hi ********
I started a long mail, got interrupted and when I got back to it, there were so many posts to you on the subject and the all overriding advice from Dr. Peatfield, which is, of course, the one to follow.

However, just to explain a little about Florinef and how it works. So, for what it’s worth, below is what I had written earlier. You might find it helps a little to detangle the confusion you are in at the moment. It’s just a little background info on Florinef from a practical point of view. As I see it, you need to know exactly how Florinef works, in order to determine whether or not it might be what you need.

In my opinion it would be wrong and not without risk to try Florinef without testing.

I don’t know your full story, and without being aware of the full picture it would be wrong, even be dangerous, for me to give any advice. However, in my personal view, it is highly risky to experiment with glucocorticoids and/or mineralcorticoids without the proper guidance of a doctor.

30 mg HC are according to Dr. Peatfield (in his chapter on the adrenal connection) above the physiological replacement dosage of 15-20 mg/day. There is a big distinction between physiological cortisone replacement and therapeutic cortisone dosages and in my view, by going up to 30 mg you might be going into deep waters if you did it off your own accord.

Florinef is a mineralcorticoid (as opposed to a glucocorticoid) and it is the drug that is used for people with primary Addison’s disease or at least it *should* be used, rather than the HC, which most doctors are using instead, because not many endos have hand-on experience with Addison’s. Primary Addison’s in humans is extremely rare – I read that 1 in 100.000 people suffer from it; although I have come across Addison’s in dogs hundreds of times on our forums AD in dogs it is no longer rare at all, although the knowledge of proper treatment for them lags behind with most vets just as much as it lags behind with human endocrinologists.

However, the point of my message is . be very careful if experimenting with Florinef. The function of Florinef is to bring up the sodium and to lower the potassium which is why it is the right drug for Addisonian people. Someone with Addison’s will have very low Sodium levels and very high potassium levels and this is a life threatening condition.

In my view it would make more sense to try and find out what your adrenals are really doing. Since you are having trouble getting an aldosterone test, one very simple way of finding out if something is seriously adrift is to ask your GP for an Electrolyte test that would be checking Sodium (Na) and Potassium (K) and it’s a cheap standard test. I would imagine, that you might have low sodium levels . but the burning question is where is your potassium? You need to know, because if your potassium were low as well as your sodium, and you then took Florinef, you could do damage. The Florinef would lower your potassium even further, whilst your sodium would rise. you might finish up with serious heart and kidney complications.

Just as a guideline for you Lab ref ranges differ slightly, but usually the ref range for Na (sodium) is between 138-160 or thereabouts. The ref range for Potassium (K) is roughly between 3.8-6.0 as I said, the exact figures differ from lab to lab and you’d need to find out the figures your lab is using.

A healthy Na:K ratio would be one that turns out to be in the low to mid thirties, a worrying one is below 27. But I have to stress that one can’t judge by the ratio figure alone. You’d need to look at the whole picture and the relation between sodium and potassium figures.

You get the ratio be dividing the lower figure (Potassium) into the higher figure (Sodium) – for example. lets say for arguments sake that the Na is 140 and the potassium 4.8

140 divided by 4.8 = ~29.2 – which would mean, that the adrenals are not functioning brilliantly (the sodium is too low) but this is not Addison’s disease. If with a reading like that you’d take Florinef, the potassium -which is a good reading with 4.8, and you did not really want it to come down (!) would come down, whilst the sodium goes up. It’s a very fine balance, and if you got it wrong, you could finish up in dire straights.

As a rule of thumb good figures to aim for would be a sodium in the middle of the norm range (around the 145-148 mark) and a potassium figure around 4.5 certainly not above 5 and not below 4."

Thank you for such a detailed post.

I am doing this under the care of an endocrinologist, although it is a bit of a stab in the dark.

More details of my symptoms and also my bloods can be found on page one in a previous thread I made here: Chronic health problem (Dehydration) - Faint hope somebody here might have some ideas

I have had bloods and electrolytes tested many many times and they are typically normal. Yet I am always urinating clear urine all day and night and have awful thirst. It was initially thought I have diabetes insipidus but more recent tests show I am producing vasopressin normally, so this is not the case. A low Aldosterone problem is the next guess. Despite normal bloods in terms of electrolytes, I have dehydration symptoms. The bloods on the thread linked also show the Sodium:Pottasium ratio of 32.55.

The mystery is, why am I unable to concentrate urine normally and why am I always thirsty. Kidneys, seem fine, Vasopressin normal. Aldosterone may be worth a try.

Let me know what you think. A low dose of 0.1mg to see if it has a positive impact on my symptoms, is that going to be such a problem? I'm aware i'd need to keep an eye on Pottasium levels. Hopefully the dr will do bloods.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

If only the choice were that simple. I'd love to not take it but the symptoms are likely causing me more damage than the use of a medication at this point.

Can you explain in a little more detail? What is the main problem with such drugs and Fludrocortisone specifically? Does it contain dangerous levels of Fluoride?

Fluoride is toxic, and drugs containing fluoride can cause serious, perhaps permanent injury. I'm not sure what all the mechanisms are that make them so dangerous, and perhaps there are some that are not, but every F containing drug I've looked at in detail has people who wish they'd never taken it. Maybe they are worse in people who have high fluoride base levels.

If you need to raise cortisol, or re-establish cortisol rhythm, you could try some herbal products. Licorice, rhodiola, eleuthero in the AM can raise cortisol, ashwaghanda in the pm lowers it. You have to cycle licorice/rhodiola/eleuthero, but afaik you can take ashwaghada without. HerbPharm is generally good, mold-free and effective in my experience; FuFluns and Lost Empire also.

Thyroid raises cortisol, often cortisol issues are actually downstream from thyroid problems.

Actually, high tissue fluoride levels can cause all kinds of problems on their own, including thyroid, you could read The End of Acne for more info and her experience treating/resolving it.

 

[Callmestar]

Fluoride is toxic, and drugs containing fluoride can cause serious, perhaps permanent injury. I'm not sure what all the mechanisms are that make them so dangerous, and perhaps there are some that are not, but every F containing drug I've looked at in detail has people who wish they'd never taken it. Maybe they are worse in people who have high fluoride base levels.

If you need to raise cortisol, or re-establish cortisol rhythm, you could try some herbal products. Licorice, rhodiola, eleuthero in the AM can raise cortisol, ashwaghanda in the pm lowers it. You have to cycle licorice/rhodiola/eleuthero, but afaik you can take ashwaghada without. HerbPharm is generally good, mold-free and effective in my experience; FuFluns and Lost Empire also.

Thyroid raises cortisol, often cortisol issues are actually downstream from thyroid problems.

Actually, high tissue fluoride levels can cause all kinds of problems on their own, including thyroid, you could read The End of Acne for more info and her experience treating/resolving it.

I don't need to raise Cortisol, my Cortisol is at normal levels. Fludrocortisone is used to replace Aldosterone, not Cortisol. It's suspected I could have a low Aldosterone problem, rather than low Cortisol. Although both are adrenal hormones.

The fluoride issue is very concerning though. I'm struggling to find where it says how much fluoride is contained in the medication.

 

[Callmestar]

"Another clue that your aldosterone may be too low?? Never finding stable DATS–you just keep going higher and higher with the HC or Adrenal Cortex and end up on too much!!"
- If hydrocortisone supplements don't work it means that you can have low aldosterone and sodium.

"Aldosterone: Can You Start Taking Florinef Without First Getting Tested?"​

"Hi ********
I started a long mail, got interrupted and when I got back to it, there were so many posts to you on the subject and the all overriding advice from Dr. Peatfield, which is, of course, the one to follow.

However, just to explain a little about Florinef and how it works. So, for what it’s worth, below is what I had written earlier. You might find it helps a little to detangle the confusion you are in at the moment. It’s just a little background info on Florinef from a practical point of view. As I see it, you need to know exactly how Florinef works, in order to determine whether or not it might be what you need.

In my opinion it would be wrong and not without risk to try Florinef without testing.

I don’t know your full story, and without being aware of the full picture it would be wrong, even be dangerous, for me to give any advice. However, in my personal view, it is highly risky to experiment with glucocorticoids and/or mineralcorticoids without the proper guidance of a doctor.

30 mg HC are according to Dr. Peatfield (in his chapter on the adrenal connection) above the physiological replacement dosage of 15-20 mg/day. There is a big distinction between physiological cortisone replacement and therapeutic cortisone dosages and in my view, by going up to 30 mg you might be going into deep waters if you did it off your own accord.

Florinef is a mineralcorticoid (as opposed to a glucocorticoid) and it is the drug that is used for people with primary Addison’s disease or at least it *should* be used, rather than the HC, which most doctors are using instead, because not many endos have hand-on experience with Addison’s. Primary Addison’s in humans is extremely rare – I read that 1 in 100.000 people suffer from it; although I have come across Addison’s in dogs hundreds of times on our forums AD in dogs it is no longer rare at all, although the knowledge of proper treatment for them lags behind with most vets just as much as it lags behind with human endocrinologists.

However, the point of my message is . be very careful if experimenting with Florinef. The function of Florinef is to bring up the sodium and to lower the potassium which is why it is the right drug for Addisonian people. Someone with Addison’s will have very low Sodium levels and very high potassium levels and this is a life threatening condition.

In my view it would make more sense to try and find out what your adrenals are really doing. Since you are having trouble getting an aldosterone test, one very simple way of finding out if something is seriously adrift is to ask your GP for an Electrolyte test that would be checking Sodium (Na) and Potassium (K) and it’s a cheap standard test. I would imagine, that you might have low sodium levels . but the burning question is where is your potassium? You need to know, because if your potassium were low as well as your sodium, and you then took Florinef, you could do damage. The Florinef would lower your potassium even further, whilst your sodium would rise. you might finish up with serious heart and kidney complications.

Just as a guideline for you Lab ref ranges differ slightly, but usually the ref range for Na (sodium) is between 138-160 or thereabouts. The ref range for Potassium (K) is roughly between 3.8-6.0 as I said, the exact figures differ from lab to lab and you’d need to find out the figures your lab is using.

A healthy Na:K ratio would be one that turns out to be in the low to mid thirties, a worrying one is below 27. But I have to stress that one can’t judge by the ratio figure alone. You’d need to look at the whole picture and the relation between sodium and potassium figures.

You get the ratio be dividing the lower figure (Potassium) into the higher figure (Sodium) – for example. lets say for arguments sake that the Na is 140 and the potassium 4.8

140 divided by 4.8 = ~29.2 – which would mean, that the adrenals are not functioning brilliantly (the sodium is too low) but this is not Addison’s disease. If with a reading like that you’d take Florinef, the potassium -which is a good reading with 4.8, and you did not really want it to come down (!) would come down, whilst the sodium goes up. It’s a very fine balance, and if you got it wrong, you could finish up in dire straights.

As a rule of thumb good figures to aim for would be a sodium in the middle of the norm range (around the 145-148 mark) and a potassium figure around 4.5 certainly not above 5 and not below 4."

Just realised the text in your post was from the article you linked, rather than your own message. Thanks anyway.

 

[Ihor]

Just realised the text in your post was from the article you linked, rather than your own message. Thanks anyway.

Your normal sodium level may call into question low aldosterone, but you still need to wait for an aldosterone test to be clear and then try fludrocortisone. A dosage of 0.1-0.2 mg of Florinef is appropriate, it is better to start with less and look after your well-being. Yes, you need to pay attention to potassium because slot of gluco and mineralo -corticoids can retain sodium and excrete potassium and dietary potassium not so help.
You don't have Addison's disease, which is atrophy of the outer adrenal cortex, then your cortisol, aldo, dhea would be low, we can assume your pregnenolone to be converted along the dhea pathway to protect against your current stress metabolism, because the progesterone pathway remained low, which weakly opposes estrogen in the tissues, but your estrogen is normal in your blood. Your uric acid looks high and Your ferritin and transferrin seem to be enough iron saturated, did you paid attention to it? Do you have bloating or trouble digesting fat? Have you tried oral progesterone?

 

[Callmestar]

Your normal sodium level may call into question low aldosterone, but you still need to wait for an aldosterone test to be clear and then try fludrocortisone. A dosage of 0.1-0.2 mg of Florinef is appropriate, it is better to start with less and look after your well-being. Yes, you need to pay attention to potassium because slot of gluco and mineralo -corticoids can retain sodium and excrete potassium and dietary potassium not so help.
You don't have Addison's disease, which is atrophy of the outer adrenal cortex, then your cortisol, aldo, dhea would be low, we can assume your pregnenolone to be converted along the dhea pathway to protect against your current stress metabolism, because the progesterone pathway remained low, which weakly opposes estrogen in the tissues, but your estrogen is normal in your blood. Your uric acid looks high and Your ferritin and transferrin seem to be enough iron saturated, did you paid attention to it? Do you have bloating or trouble digesting fat? Have you tried oral progesterone?

Yes, my normal sodium and electrolytes do call it into question. But at the same time, I am constantly losing fluids and feel dehydrated which in itself causes higher serum and sodium osmolality results.

My DHEA is high, has been on multiple blood tests. Morning Cortisol normal it seems. Currently awaiting results of 24-hour saliva cortisol. I have seen on rare occasions that Cortisol can be normal and Aldosterone low, although unlikely.

Your uric acid looks high and Your ferritin and transferrin seem to be enough iron saturated, did you paid attention to it? Can you explain in a little more detail what you mean by this and what it is I should be looking into? I did notice the uric acid is a little high. Not sure about the ferritin and transferrin?

 

[Callmestar]

First day on Fludrocortisone yesterday, didn't notice any changes in symptoms during the day, although early days so wasn't necessarily expecting to. During the night I woke up after some very unpleasant vivid dreams and I felt quite unwell. Very weak and lightheaded. Got back to sleep eventually and felt back to my normal level of dehydration and fatigue upon waking again.

Aldosterone & Renin tests have now been booked for next week. I may go easy on the medication until those results.

 

[Dr. B]

Sounds a lot like Addison's disease/adrenal failure.

If you feel better with taking fludrocortisone then it's likely an adrenal issue. I think the standard treatment is fludrocortisone + hydrocortisone but I'm not sure if that healthy long-term.

Have you tried supplementing pregnenolone, 50-100 mg per day? It's great for adrenal support and quite safe in large doses. Here's one anecdote of an individual fixing adrenal insufficiency with just 30 mg pregnenolone daily Addison's Disease - Prednisone replaced by Pregnenolone. Licorice can also kind of work as a mineralocorticoid agonist, helps with retaining water and minerals (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199110243251706). But it's more of a band-aid solution.

Theoretically adrenal gland extract should also work (The Treatment of Addison's Disease by Whole Adrenal Gland) but I felt horribly adrenalized and unwell when taking it so wouldn't necessarily recommend.

Ray has some good quotes on adrenal insufficiency and I believe his stance is that the basic cause is untreated hypothyroidism:

“Thyroid is needed for the adrenals to function well, and adequate cholesterol, as raw material. It’s popular to talk about ‘weak adrenals,’ but the adrenal cortex regenerates very well. Animal experimenters can make animals that lack the adrenal medulla by scooping out everything inside the adrenal capsule, and the remaining cells quickly regenerate the steroid producing tissues, the cortex. So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

im confused you see people saying pregnenolone is a cortisol antagonist, Peat said it cant raise cortisol only lower it.
Pregnenolone is probably the single handed worst supplement or hormone ive ever tried, I personally think it can convert to pure cortisol as just 10 days of using 50mg a day resulted in significant hair shedding, testicle shrinkage, and 12 pounds of weight gain, all fat gain, so it was basically like using prednisone id imagine. It probably provides more raw material to create cortisol. i used the pure encapsulations brand which is non gmo and one of the most tested, expensive brands with no filler ingredients in most of their supplements. if prednisone was replaced by pregnenolone it means it was turning to cortisol or was it progesterone?

so hypothyroidism can cause both cushings with excess cortisol and weight gain, as well as addisons with very little cortisol...?

Fluoride is toxic, and drugs containing fluoride can cause serious, perhaps permanent injury. I'm not sure what all the mechanisms are that make them so dangerous, and perhaps there are some that are not, but every F containing drug I've looked at in detail has people who wish they'd never taken it. Maybe they are worse in people who have high fluoride base levels.

If you need to raise cortisol, or re-establish cortisol rhythm, you could try some herbal products. Licorice, rhodiola, eleuthero in the AM can raise cortisol, ashwaghanda in the pm lowers it. You have to cycle licorice/rhodiola/eleuthero, but afaik you can take ashwaghada without. HerbPharm is generally good, mold-free and effective in my experience; FuFluns and Lost Empire also.

Thyroid raises cortisol, often cortisol issues are actually downstream from thyroid problems.

Actually, high tissue fluoride levels can cause all kinds of problems on their own, including thyroid, you could read The End of Acne for more info and her experience treating/resolving it.

dont you want cortisol as low as possible? thyroid did seem to cause negative, cortisol like effects when i tried T3 alone, around 48mcg a day split through the day

 

[Korven]

so hypothyroidism can cause both cushings with excess cortisol and weight gain, as well as addisons with very little cortisol...?

Overactive adrenals and high cortisol/DHEA would be early stages of the body adapting to stress, low cortisol/DHEA would be the late stage with low adrenal output.

Dr Sarah Myhill has written an article about this here: Common Hormonal Problems in CFS - Adrenal - DoctorMyhill. Though in reality I doubt things are quite so clear-cut. As you mention there's no guarantee that you will feel any better when taking hormones like pregnenolone.

"So, there are several stages of adrenal function gradually leading to failure:

1. Normal levels of cortisol and DHEA. Normal result. Normal adrenal gland function.
2. Raised cortisol, normal DHEA. This indicates a normal short term response to stress. So long as the stress is removed, the adrenal gland will recover completely. The adrenal gland is functioning normally but the patient is acutely stressed.
3. High levels of cortisol, low levels of DHEA. The body cannot make enough DHEA to balance cortisol. This is the first sign of adrenal exhaustion. This is a normal response to chronic stress. However, the patient needs a long break from whatever that chronic stress may be - insomnia, mental, physical or emotional overload, poor diet or whatever. Failure to correct leads to exhaustion. Pregnenolone supplementation can be used to make the patient feel better, but it must be part of a package of recovery without which worsening can be expected.
4. Cortisol levels low, DHEA levels low. The gland is so exhausted it can't make cortisol or DHEA. By this time patients are usually severely fatigued. Very low levels indicate Addison's disease - complete adrenal failure. Untreated Addison's disease inevitably results in death.
5. Cortisol levels low, DHEA borderline or normal. This probably represents the gland beginning to recover after a long rest. DHEA/pregnenolone may be used to help patients feel better whilst they continue their programme of rest and rehabilitation."

 

[Dr. B]

Overactive adrenals and high cortisol/DHEA would be early stages of the body adapting to stress, low cortisol/DHEA would be the late stage with low adrenal output.

Dr Sarah Myhill has written an article about this here: Common Hormonal Problems in CFS - Adrenal - DoctorMyhill. Though in reality I doubt things are quite so clear-cut. As you mention there's no guarantee that you will feel any better when taking hormones like pregnenolone.

"So, there are several stages of adrenal function gradually leading to failure:

1. Normal levels of cortisol and DHEA. Normal result. Normal adrenal gland function.
2. Raised cortisol, normal DHEA. This indicates a normal short term response to stress. So long as the stress is removed, the adrenal gland will recover completely. The adrenal gland is functioning normally but the patient is acutely stressed.
3. High levels of cortisol, low levels of DHEA. The body cannot make enough DHEA to balance cortisol. This is the first sign of adrenal exhaustion. This is a normal response to chronic stress. However, the patient needs a long break from whatever that chronic stress may be - insomnia, mental, physical or emotional overload, poor diet or whatever. Failure to correct leads to exhaustion. Pregnenolone supplementation can be used to make the patient feel better, but it must be part of a package of recovery without which worsening can be expected.
4. Cortisol levels low, DHEA levels low. The gland is so exhausted it can't make cortisol or DHEA. By this time patients are usually severely fatigued. Very low levels indicate Addison's disease - complete adrenal failure. Untreated Addison's disease inevitably results in death.
5. Cortisol levels low, DHEA borderline or normal. This probably represents the gland beginning to recover after a long rest. DHEA/pregnenolone may be used to help patients feel better whilst they continue their programme of rest and rehabilitation."

so can pregnenolone convert to cortisol? i put on 12 pounds in 10 days from 50mg pregnenolone a day, the effects i got seemed very similar to what cortisol would do. like hair loss, organ shrinkage everywhere, dry eyes, etc...
how do you lower cortisol, besides vitamins, sugar, protein, salt? just wait and give it time?
isnt low cortisol beneficial

 

[Korven]

so can pregnenolone convert to cortisol? i put on 12 pounds in 10 days from 50mg pregnenolone a day, the effects i got seemed very similar to what cortisol would do. like hair loss, organ shrinkage everywhere, dry eyes, etc...
how do you lower cortisol, besides vitamins, sugar, protein, salt? just wait and give it time?
isnt low cortisol beneficial

Honestly I don't know. Pregnenolone sits atop the whole hormonal cascade and in my opinion it's difficult if not impossible to predict where it's gonna end up, also depends on your physiological state at any given time, whether you're going through any stress at the time, etc. There's some evidence that pregnenolone itself is a CRH/ACTH antagonist which would help lower cortisol (Pregnenolone Is The Most Potent Inhibitor Of The Stress Signal (CRH)), and it also converts into progesterone which has potent anti-cortisol effects. I feel way better taking progesterone vs pregnenolone and I think personal experience is the best way to gauge if something is beneficial or not.

If you want to lower excessively high cortisol I would eat lots of carbohydrate and eliminate stress in your life.