TRT At 22. At 24 I Started To Replace ALL Other Hormones

Discussion in 'Thyroid and Hormones' started by thingsvarious, Oct 11, 2020.

?

How will my health be in 20 years?

  1. Better than without hormone replacement

  2. I am screwing myself

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  1. thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    I am a medical student in my last year. For a few years I have been replacing ALL of my hormones. It started out with just TRT at 22. Then I found out that all my other hormones are low as well.

    In early twenties my life was starting to go down the gutter. My life started to fall apart in every domain. I started multiple hormone replacement. Whereas before my life was a nightmare, it has been a dream ever since. I have been doing this for some years now.

    My question.As I am in my mid twenties, do you think this is sustainable for decades (see below)? Will my healthspan increase or decrease because of it? I am new to this group but I have been lurking for some time and found some great info. So I´d be curious what some experienced and qualified guys think.


    You can´t outdrug/outbiohack/outlifestyle a bad hormonal profile.

    What I take. YEARS of trial and error to device this protocol

    Everyone is different, but the target range I aim for is in the upper tertile of the youthful reference range. Just falling somewhere within the reference range is not “optimal”. The reference range covers 95% of the population. Certainly more than 5% of the population have hormones bad enough to warrant intervention.

    • TRT: Test Cyp (50mg subQ 2x/week), HcG (250iu subQ 2x/week), anastrozole (0.25mg 1x/week), dutasteride 0.5mg 1x/week (as my androgens are high I don´t need the DHT).
    • cortisol: cortisone acetate (20mg/d HC equivalent) (split into 4 daily doses)
    • thyroid: 1.25 grains NDT + 6.25mcg T3 (a few hours later in the day)
    • GH: 1iu genotropin pfizer (aiming for IGF1 of 250) prebed
    • fludrocortisone 01.mg/d morning
    • melatonin: 0.25mg sublingual prebed
    Other stuff I do: keto/paleo, HIIT, weekly rapamycin, a bunch of supplements (all of them together less worth than a slight alteration in hormones), some exercise every day, sleep around 6.5h (wake up refreshed without alarm -before HRT I needed 8+).

    Before hormone replacement I was trying out every nootropic under the sun (modafinil, caffeine, shitty racetams, small doses of MTP, ephedrine). Now I don´t need any (sometimes a little nicotine gum while studying). My cognition is now almost always sharp, no brain fog, great energy, motivated. The combo of good sleep + cardio + keto + good hormones is much healthier and more sustainable than any stims/nootropics. Too bad that so many people focus just on supps and nootropics.

    I do everyhing mostly myself because many (not all) endocrinologists are ***t. Once I found what works, taking all these hormones takes less than 5min per day and no thought whatsoever. Tiny price for a huge prize.

    I am supervised by doctors, but if I took what they prescribed, massive potential wellbeing/performance/health would be left behind (stupid tradeoff for a small risk). They´d treat my thyroid with just T4. They´d use 30mg HC for adrenals (way too high -out of fear for a potential adrenal crisis. SMFH.). Testogel for sex hormones, (skin cream very bad for DHT), because it is much more convenient then injections. No AI. No growth hormone, because “it is bad for cancer” (SMFH even more). So in summary they´d be replacing every single hypothalamic axis suoptimally.

    I run extensive blood tests.

    I wrote about my experience here.

    My goal: to find a great balance between performance/wellbeing and health/longevity.

    My question. I am new to this group but I have been lurking for some time and found some great info. So I´d be curious what you guys think. As I am in my mid twenties, do you think this is sustainable for decades? Will my healthspan increase or decrease because of it?

    If you have any questions hit me up.
     
  2. FredSonoma

    FredSonoma Member

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    Firstly, I have no idea, but this is just a random theory I have that I like to tell my friends lol, so don't take it too serious. However warning, if I'm correct, it would imply that you are ******* yourself :fearscream: so apologies in advance for any cognitive dissonance my post causes lol

    The basis of my theory is that hormones and neurotransmitters are purely messengers - they don't do anything in and of themselves. So, take for example people that use adderall every day - they are artificially flooding their brain with dopamine, and now they get a ton of work done. However, over long periods of time, they tend to be very cranky (because they have over-stressed their body), and if they eventually get off adderall, they are lethargic and depressed for quite a while. Why is this?

    Their brain originally being low in dopamine was not a mistake of their brain - the brain surveyed the state of the body, how efficiently it was running / how much energy it could produce, etc., and determined that it SHOULD be running at a low-dopamine state. Maybe, for example, there is a large bacterial load in the body, and much of the body's ATP needs to be devoted to fighting that, so the person should be lethargic and "encouraged" to stay home in bed most of the day. Adderall however, simply imitates the "messenger" dopamine, and tricks the brain into thinking "yup we are all good, run at full capacity."

    The same thing is happening when you do TRT - your body wasn't lower in testosterone originally because testosterone is some tricky or expensive molecule to build - your body lowered it intentionally. It surveyed the state of your body and said "nope we can't run that high, we need to devote energy to other things." Being in a high-T state is taxing on the body - it drains tons of energy. That's why only the healthiest, cleanest-liver / digestion / whatever people naturally are extremely high testosterone. When you supplement it, you're kind of missing the point - you're just imitating the messenger molecule and tricking your body.

    The hard part about being high testosterone is NOT the testosterone molecule - it's being in a clean / high-energy enough body that can AFFORD to be high testosterone, and your body regulates this naturally. If I'm correct, then the consequences are obvious. Now is it maybe worth it to have fun now and pay later? Maybe yes lol, so I can't knock you. But likely you will have to pay later
     
  3. S-VV

    S-VV Member

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    I remember reading that mineralocorticoids have a potent nootropic effect. Arginine Vasopressin as well.

    Your probably 30 years ahead of cutting edge medicine and 80 years ahead of standard of care. I imagine it would be much more convenient with an all in one subQ pump.

    Just remember to take stress doses of cortisone if you are going to surgery etc...
     
  4. BehcetsBoy

    BehcetsBoy Member

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    Okay no offense but I would never want you to be my doctor. If you're trying all these random potentially very dangerous things on your own because you just think it's right, I can't imagine the things you'd prescribe to me.
     
  5. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    A lot depends on your genetic/health base. Guy like Arnold or Zane could probably do this protocol and be fine until their 60s and then fall apart.

    The GH and cortisol are aging for sure.

    My anecdotal observation is after 10-15 years of these you are going to start noticing things. Your head will get bigger and it'll start to seem disproportionate to your body. Maybe you will start to get rounded in the face from the cortisol. You'll just start to look weird

    The Keto, HIIT, and sleep are also stressors and aging you

    You are living in the fast lane. You might as well go conquer a small country to make it worth it. Better to burn out than to rust and all that.
     
  6. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    Yes working on physiologic delivery systems that are no hassle and require no thought would be great :) A lot of money could be made
     
  7. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    I wouldn´t prescribe this to anyone. Many doctors self-medicate quite radically but would not do the same to patients out of fear of getting sued and losing their licence
     
  8. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    Even IF. If I had to, I would sign a contract to rather live 10 more years with my new vitality and then die instead of living to one hundred with the dreadful state I was in before.

    As to cortisol and GH I disagree. I am well within the normal range. Some faster aging might happen, but IMO a tradeoff worth doing. Life is about filling time and not passing it.
     
  9. Nebula

    Nebula Member

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    This could be the reason for your low hormones along with the 6.5 hours of sleep. The verdict is in after 10+ years of internet experimenters. For most it reduces thyroid and youth hormones especially combined with intense exercise and low sleep. I understand keto is tempting to do especially during college because it can increase focus, but that’s probably from stress hormones and only temporary. I crashed hard on keto at the end of college. I would encourage you to explore alternatives to your current approach.
     
  10. Murtaza

    Murtaza Member

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    dont have much to say but please drop dutasteride, too many horror stories online.
     
  11. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    Yeh this trade off goes back to Achilles and Alexander. At your age I probably would have said the same but now that I have more loved ones in my life, the trade off shifts.
     
  12. Ableton

    Ableton Member

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    If I could relive my life I would probably do the same as an approach to combat hairloss. I think dutasteride is a bad idea from a health standpoint. I also think that everyone on Dut/Fin should go the entire biohack route instead (I am guessing this is already happening in Hollywood for example), which is what you are doing. Nobody here can reliably tell you what this will lead to and I suppose some sort of "crash" is in the realm of possibility. But you have committed hard, and if I was you, I would stick to it, except the paleo (dropping this might mean you have to use less thyroid). I think your life would turn into a living hell if you got of all of this as of now, and that you would feel like absolute ***t, for weeks to months, if you are lucky. If you want to get off everything, do it VERY slowly.

    What do you look like (in comparison to before) and how good is your exercise volume/strength in comparison?
    What exactly were your symptoms before trt?
     
  13. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    Very valuable input! I will be experimenting with higher carbs and refeeds for sure.
     
  14. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    True I commited hard. I was on the fence for a long time. My life has been a dream ever since (comparatively speaking). Actually before at one point I was just hopeless and helpless...

    I gained about 10kg of muscle. about 8% bf year round; 3000kcal/d; VO2 max very high

    although I couldn´t do what I do without the hormones giving me the necessary energy.
     
  15. Ableton

    Ableton Member

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    did you crash because of the Dut?
     
  16. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    Couldn´t even tell a difference when I started it.
     
  17. Ableton

    Ableton Member

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    what were your crash symptoms? just low energy, brain fog etc?
     
  18. Broco6679

    Broco6679 Member

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    Your stack is pretty much the exact same as what Dr Thierry Hertoghe puts all of his patients on. Some people seem to do really well under him, whereas others end up much, much worse.

    Out of curiosity, what was the order in which you introduced each hormone? Can I also ask what your blood work looked like pre-hormone use?
     
  19. stumpus

    stumpus Member

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    This reads like an Isochroma post.
     
  20. OP
    thingsvarious

    thingsvarious Member

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    Read this. This I wrote the other day. Quick guide to complete hormone replacement
    Pretreatment values were all below reference range, but IGF1 was low normal. Cortisol, T/FT, fT3/FT4 all markedly below range.
     
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