Scalp Calcification

[BrianF]

What is a natural supplement that can block seratonin?

Some anti-histamines. Cyrpoheptadine is highly rated on this forum for just that purpose:

( Treatment of the serotonin syndrome with cyproheptadine. - PubMed - NCBI )

I however use Loratadine, because it I can get it from my local supermarket for a cheap price.

Antiallergic activity of loratadine, a non-sedating antihistamine. - PubMed - NCBI

I'm pretty sure it isn't as effective for this purpose as Cyproheptadine or some of the others, but its easy and allows me to dose 20mg (2 tabs) per night. It helps me sleep. Cyprp helped me sleep too... sleep like I was in a coma. WW3 wouldn't have woke me up on Cypro.

 

[BrianF]

But I don't know of any 'natural' supplements

 

[BrianF]

.

 

[paymanz]

The best things i can imaging is massaging the scalp and applying magnesium chloride and sodium thiosulfate topically.

 

[BrianF]

The best things i can imaging is massaging the scalp and applying magnesium chloride and sodium thiosulfate topically.

I take magnesium citrate orally (I felt a marked difference in the scalp after a month of 1500mg, done that for three months, now down to 500mg) so I know that magnesium, taken orally, is an effective treatment for soft tissue calcification.

I presume mag can be absorbed through the skin, and will be able to target the scalp area more efficiently than orally, provided the level of absorption is high enough. Do you have any info on mag absorption through the skin?

 

[paymanz]

I take magnesium citrate orally (I felt a marked difference in the scalp after a month of 1500mg, done that for three months, now down to 500mg) so I know that magnesium, taken orally, is an effective treatment for soft tissue calcification.

I presume mag can be absorbed through the skin, and will be able to target the scalp area more efficiently than orally, provided the level of absorption is high enough. Do you have any info on mag absorption through the skin?

Yes and oral Mg probably doesnt reach to a level to do that for you, but its good for sure.

There is more than one study in this thread,in later posts
Effects Of Transdermal Magnesium Chloride On Quality Of Life For Patients With Fibromyalgia: A Feasi

2005 Patent For Topical Magnesium Chloride To Raise DHEA-S Levels

Topical/Transdermal Magnesium Detoxifies Toxic Metals And Improves Mag/cal Balance

 

[BrianF]

Thanks Paymanz. I'm building up a picture of transdermal measures one could use to battle calcification:

Magnesium
Sodium Thisosulphate
Apple Cider Vinegar (smelly)
Castor Oil (messy)

There are probably others, but do you know of any research that can compare the efficacy of these? Probably a long shot, I know.

I could go out and buy all these products and alternate their use in a guesswork protocol, but I'd rather use the most effective one, especially if it isn't as 'smelly' as ACV or as 'messy' as Castor Oil (ok, I have never used but presume that its messy. It simply can't not be messy).


I'm thinking these transdermal measures, combined with scalp manipulation (and possibly derma rolling) would be the 'front end' of a successful protocol, while dietary and supplemental measures would be the long-term maintenance of the condition.

 

[BrianF]

One more question popped into my head, I looked at Sodium Thiosulphate online and its cheap and a pretty basic compound. But what would you need to add to it to administer it topically? Surely you don't just rub those flakes into your scalp and try and grind them down? You sure wouldn't need to derma roll after you done that!

 

[Ron J]

Muscle mass improves vascularity, so chewing might help with the muscles involved and adjacent muscles. We don't chew as much today due to soft(er) foods or more dense in calories.

 

[mr_mercer]

I can't imagine head muscle "exercises" would be useful. And I think talking about scalp "massage" is misleading at best. To me the term "massage" evokes some sort of relaxing routine of rubbing and palpating. What actually works is digging deep into the skin with the finger tips of both hands and pinching the scalp with great force, hard enough to break up the fibrosis. At first my forearms and fingers would get sore from the exertion. It is at first somewhat painful and difficult, and produces some tenderness you feel in the scalp for a couple days at a time.

 

[Ron J]

I can't imagine head muscle "exercises" would be useful. And I think talking about scalp "massage" is misleading at best. To me the term "massage" evokes some sort of relaxing routine of rubbing and palpating. What actually works is digging deep into the skin with the finger tips of both hands and pinching the scalp with great force, hard enough to break up the fibrosis. At first my forearms and fingers would get sore from the exertion. It is at first somewhat painful and difficult, and produces some tenderness you feel in the scalp for a couple days at a time.

I mean using them more often to simulate a diet that requires more chewing. It improves blood circulation to help prevent the calcification/fibrosis in the first place. That's just my opinion.

 

[Luckytype]

Tough call on the chewinng and expression muscles.

My successes were from basically pulling apart a geilled chesse sandwich. By that I mean, the scalp sheet of tissue was kinda stuck to the galea. For those that can control individual head muscles, experiment with them and feel your scalp.

So think of them as any muscles, if not opposed or stretched, they tighten

From my palpations I feel like it makes everything yank down harder on the galea, even things temporally and under the occiput of the skull. I feel like you have to manually stretch these things to get any sort of(even minor) loosening of the scalp structures and thats only if you have loosened the scalp glued down to the galea.

It used to move as 1 tight unit, 18 months later i can hold my scalp in place and move the muscles underneath separately.

Pieces of a puzzle..

 

[mr_mercer]

Treatment of Male Pattern Baldness with Botulinum Toxin: A... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery

This would pretty seriously contradict the idea of doing scalp muscle exercises. They claim to have induced hair growth by deliberately atrophying the head muscles by paralyzing them with botox.

I just don't see how exercises would help anything. The muscles anchor to the galea along the sides of the head; they don't even exists on top where the fibrosis is most typical. Flexing the muscles would just moves the galea around a little bit, dragging the skin along with it in one piece. The problem to tackle directly is the fibrosis.

 

[LCohen]

So u feel that calcification is the primary reason for balding?...I always felt like it was the end result atleast.

Better than nothing.

 

[blueorca]

I want to report great success with scalp pinching. "Massage" isn't the right word. It took two and half years of pinching, which I will continue probably forever. I'd had maybe 2cm of hairline recession in a classic M shaped Norwood pattern. I never had a problem with diffuse thinning at all; entirely a matter of hairline recession.

After I finally noticed the recession I found some online discussions of the "massage" techniques. I discovered much to my surprise that much of my scalp was stiff and fibrotic. On sections of it I could only successfully pinch it with both of my palms and great force. This phase was painful, and would produce some scab like material that flaked off in the following days. There were also some inflamed and fluid filled vesicles deep in the scalp, like a pimples. Sometimes I'd have to down a drink or two and psych myself up before doing the pinching. In some areas pushing down hard into fibrotic tissue with a beer bottle or glass and temporarily deforming a depression was the best I could do. After some months I could use my fingers on both hands to pinch smaller parts, with less force than both palms. Eventually I could pinch the whole scalp with finger and thumb on one hand. This took over a year. Had I not begun the pinching routine I am sure I would have a growing bald spot in the back, as I had found very stiff tissue on the back of my head, where there was not yet any thinning.

The fibrotic skin I found perfectly matched the pictures you see of the galea, and of complete male pattern baldness. I also had to pinch a stiff v-shaped area in my forehead (well below the hairline), exactly as depicted in anatomy pictures:

I think I saw mention of routines of 15 minutes twice a day. I never did that. In spare private moments I would regularly reach up and pinch the scalp. I have a private personal office at work and am alone in it for long stretches. I would reach up every other hour for a minute or so. I also did this "a minute here and there" routine at home and on travel. I have no comment on what routine is optimal, but I personally doubt that most people have the dedication to succeed with this approach, and will wait for a pill. The process is unpleasant, and at first painful.

I saw on the jd moyer site a claim of "cradle cap" from these pinching routines, where a waxy layer of dead skin material must be rubbed off. I didn't get that and instead huge chunks of dry skin would flake off. Probably genetic, like with waxy vs dry ear-wax. I'd call it dandruff in my case, but instead dime sized pieces of skin. There was also a lot of normal small piece dandruff as the scalp would heal from pinching. As the process was working I would feel compelled to take two showers a day and rub the scalp to avoid obvious dandruff on my clothing during business hours. Also, I would find waxy sebum on my fingers from the pinching sessions. I believe the "trapped sebum" idea. Pinching would squeeze it out.

I also did dermarolling once or twice a month. Got some chinese thingy off ebay for a couple dollars. But I never "rolled", rather I would grip the device and selectively push the pins into parts of a few especially stiff areas. It hurts. At first this would produce big chunks of dead skin to peel off in the following days. I don't need to do it anymore. I doubt any sort of dermarolling is strictly necessary if you're pinching, but I believe it can greatly accelerate the process.

I believe in the skull expansion theory, in my case. I have a somewhat angular head (think frankenstien's monster) and the especially stiff skin I found was on the sharp angles of my skull. I have a few calcified bumps on my skull from childhood encounters with concrete and other hard ground. The skin surrounding these bumps was especially stiff. I believe the bumps and ridges of my skull have grown as I have aged. It was in these areas under the galea that became fibrotic.

I do not particularly believe a stress or nutrition model would ever have been useful to me in this scalp health area. I believe my diet has mostly been fine, and the stress I've had to deal with has been essentially irreducible in any practical way. I'm not about to join a monastery or live like a pauper just to keep a full head of hair, so those ideas are useless. I make a good living, it's stressful, but the alternative is certainly way more stressful.

I get the impression that my situation is not like a lot of men who seem to be balding in their 20s, though. I am in my mid-30s and I think my case is different; I think another decade of androgen exposure has grown my skull and its ridges.

I also think getting the scalp engorged with blood regularly is a good idea. I suppose hanging upside down would work, but I just use a sauna on high heat. In the summer think working up a good sweat outdoors gets the job done.

How did you get rid of the inflamed fluid filled vesicles. I'm experiencing the same things you are except my "pimples" are not going away and they hurt.

 

[Ras]

Christopher Walken got the idea from Anthony Perkins to tug on his hair for ten minutes every morning to keep his scalp supple, the blood flowing, and the hair growing. Seems to have worked.

 

[Luckytype]

You guys need to start considering the tissue remodeling that has to take place which includes vasculature down to the capillaries.

Think of it like a grilled cheese sandwich. Top layer is dermis, epidermis etc.. cheese is all the connective fascia, underneath(bottom bread layer) is the galea. It isnt by chance that baldness just randomly follows the most rigid structure in the head that isnt the actual skull.

When you learn, which again takes time, how to separate the top bread from the cheese from the bottom bread, the scalp is then allowed a better environment for health.

Think of a tarp over a dirt pile or a car, its easier and allows for better movement when its strapped by bungees vs tightened down with rope or ratchet straps


And i agree 100% there absolutely are not a lot of people who will adhere to anything short of food consumption for years to achieve unknown results.

Scalp manipulation is exhausting if you arent finding good leverages. Not many people are willing to do this, its not a bad thing but like peak performance in a sport or skill.

You may or may not have "it"
You may or may not be willing to

Its that combination which includes being willing that will reap the results assuming all other stuff is in place including lifestyle and dietary adherence

 

[aussiebaldguy]

I

One more question popped into my head, I looked at Sodium Thiosulphate online and its cheap and a pretty basic compound. But what would you need to add to it to administer it topically? Surely you don't just rub those flakes into your scalp and try and grind them down? You sure wouldn't need to derma roll after you done that!

I was thinking to mix some Epsom salts which is magnesium and coconut oil and rub it in to my scalp. They are both relatively inexpensive and the oil will keep the magnesium on site and absorb some into the skin.. dunno whether it works but makes sense.. PS I'm also derma rolling once per week with 192 needles

 

[JDreamer]

Tough call on the chewinng and expression muscles.

My successes were from basically pulling apart a geilled chesse sandwich. By that I mean, the scalp sheet of tissue was kinda stuck to the galea. For those that can control individual head muscles, experiment with them and feel your scalp.

So think of them as any muscles, if not opposed or stretched, they tighten

From my palpations I feel like it makes everything yank down harder on the galea, even things temporally and under the occiput of the skull. I feel like you have to manually stretch these things to get any sort of(even minor) loosening of the scalp structures and thats only if you have loosened the scalp glued down to the galea.

It used to move as 1 tight unit, 18 months later i can hold my scalp in place and move the muscles underneath separately.

Pieces of a puzzle..

The part I don't understand is that my temples are as pliable as playdough, yet I don't have hair re-growing there - even after doing all the mechanical movements I possible can to it.

 

[Luckytype]

The part I don't understand is that my temples are as pliable as playdough, yet I don't have hair re-growing there - even after doing all the mechanical movements I possible can to it.

I would consider the supporting mechanisms too. Nutrition, temps as a guide, are your nutrient intakes where they need to be, do you eat for heat.

Second from that is considering what you consider pliable. If you take your fingers and put it on a temple or the front part of the temple, make an expression to wrinkle your forehead and then one to pull your ears back. Does your finger want to go along with the structures underneath.

Another thing is...time. There are so many people who are likely damn close to getting some progress, but considering its months and years to change what took months and years to eventually develop, they give up or move off the modality