Receding Gums Part 2

[DaveFoster]

I'm having some problems with receding gums; I'm 19 and my teeth regularly hurt and the gums keep moving further away from the teeth.

My diet is as follows:

- 1 gal milk
- 0.5 L OJ
- 2 oz liver
- 3 oysters
- 2 eggs
- 2 cups sugar (in milk)
- 1-2 TBSP salt

I supplement a lot, including methylene blue, K2, etc. I also oil pull occasionally and brush with bentonite clay.

Could the sugar be causing the gum recession? Right now, I'm battling a gut problem (viral infection or bacterial overgrowth), and this is leading to a lot of inflammation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tarmander]

What's your hunch on what might be causing it? Think it's the gut stuff?

 

[Brian]

Something I have found to increase my teeth and gum health is brushing my gum line gently with a drop of pure liquid coconut based soap. It has an alkaline pH and seems to stay on teeth and gums better between meals than a baking soda rinse. It makes my gums a healthy pink and teeth squeeky clean and plague free. If it's an acidty issue that might help.

I've also noticed that a diet supplemented high in sodium and magnesium seems to allow calcium to be antagonized very well and end up in higher concentration in saliva (to a point that I can taste a milky flavor in my saliva even though I don't drink much milk). Personally I don't think I'm able to maintain sufficient extracellular sodium concentration on a gallon of milk per day, so that may be something to consider whether that's working for you with your current state of your thyroid and evaporation rate due to your lifestyle and room/outdoor temperature.

Also it may be possible to have some mineral deficiencies in trace minerals with that amount of refined sugar, especially if you are having gut issues and might not be absorbing all that you eat.

 

[Dizzryda]

What percent milk are you using? I always seem to encounter this problem when I try to go fat free. My teeth always do great on pints of ice cream on the other hand. This leads me to believe saturated fat is helpful for this. Try a pint or two of ice cream and see if it goes away a little. Then maybe figure out how little fat you can go and still feel ok with your teeth and gums.

 

[Interactome]

I'm having some problems with receding gums; I'm 19 and my teeth regularly hurt and the gums keep moving further away from the teeth.

My diet is as follows:

- 1 gal milk
- 0.5 L OJ
- 2 oz liver
- 3 oysters
- 2 eggs
- 2 cups sugar (in milk)
- 1-2 TBSP salt

I supplement a lot, including methylene blue, K2, etc. I also oil pull occasionally and brush with bentonite clay.

Could the sugar be causing the gum recession? Right now, I'm battling a gut problem (viral infection or bacterial overgrowth), and this is leading to a lot of inflammation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also interested in this topic. My teeth are a mess! Though my diet is not the same. And I have some esophagitis going on that doesn't go away.

Any thoughts on the sodium bicarbonate + trisodium phosphate rinse (don't swallow!)? Saw it on youtube and don't know if it works yet. I started doing it a few days ago.

 

[DaveFoster]

What's your hunch on what might be causing it? Think it's the gut stuff?

I would say so, both directly through increased inflammation, and also through decreased nutrient absorption in the intestine. I'm going to start supplementing ascorbic acid, and maybe try some liposomal C on my gums, as I think I'm not getting enough/not absorbing enough vitamin C.

I'm also interested in this topic. My teeth are a mess! Though my diet is not the same. And I have some esophagitis going on that doesn't go away.

Any thoughts on the sodium bicarbonate + trisodium phosphate rinse (don't swallow!)? Saw it on youtube and don't know if it works yet. I started doing it a few days ago.

I've never heard of it; let me know how it goes.

What percent milk are you using? I always seem to encounter this problem when I try to go fat free. My teeth always do great on pints of ice cream on the other hand. This leads me to believe saturated fat is helpful for this. Try a pint or two of ice cream and see if it goes away a little. Then maybe figure out how little fat you can go and still feel ok with your teeth and gums.

I use fat free as well; I'll try adding some MCT oil into the gallon to up the fat content without any PUFA.

Something I have found to increase my teeth and gum health is brushing my gum line gently with a drop of pure liquid coconut based soap. It has an alkaline pH and seems to stay on teeth and gums better between meals than a baking soda rinse. It makes my gums a healthy pink and teeth squeeky clean and plague free. If it's an acidty issue that might help.

I've also noticed that a diet supplemented high in sodium and magnesium seems to allow calcium to be antagonized very well and end up in higher concentration in saliva (to a point that I can taste a milky flavor in my saliva even though I don't drink much milk). Personally I don't think I'm able to maintain sufficient extracellular sodium concentration on a gallon of milk per day, so that may be something to consider whether that's working for you with your current state of your thyroid and evaporation rate due to your lifestyle and room/outdoor temperature.

Also it may be possible to have some mineral deficiencies in trace minerals with that amount of refined sugar, especially if you are having gut issues and might not be absorbing all that you eat.

I'll try the coconut soap; what I'm going to try now includes a mixture of almond oil, peppermint oil, and spearmint oil, which is like that found in this product that apparently helps receding gums:

Amazon.com : OraMD 3-pack - Dentist Recommended Worldwide 100% Pure Mouthwash for Receding Gums : Beauty

I do supplement salt and magnesium, but I think you may be right about the trace minerals. The pain is not constant, but comes and goes.

 

[milk]

Finasteride gave me receding gums and unfortunate side-effects in my privates.

I once took Cephalexin, an antibiotic, and it reversed said unfortunate side-effects for as long as I took it, although I don't know about the gums.

 

[Interactome]

How did you find out that you have overgrowth and do you know what type of bacteria it is?
I'm wondering, if the bacteria live in the stomach, can they reduce and irritate the stomach lining and start migrating upward?

 

[thegiantess]

I used to have this problem and it was in fact bacterial related. It's a circular issue.. Or was for me. I avoided the dentist for many years and when I finally went I got a dna swab of the bacteria in my mouth and also a stool test (forward thinking dentist). Turns out my mouth was so infected with pathogenic bacteria it had taken over my gut as well. I had a few months of deep cleanings of my gums and the problem was solved. If yours isn't that bad yet I would try the vit c and maybe cut back the sugar for a bit so you're not feeding the bacteria excessively.

 

[Interactome]

I used to have this problem and it was in fact bacterial related. It's a circular issue.. Or was for me. I avoided the dentist for many years and when I finally went I got a dna swab of the bacteria in my mouth and also a stool test (forward thinking dentist). Turns out my mouth was so infected with pathogenic bacteria it had taken over my gut as well. I had a few months of deep cleanings of my gums and the problem was solved. If yours isn't that bad yet I would try the vit c and maybe cut back the sugar for a bit so you're not feeding the bacteria excessively.

I'm also speculating if this couldn't be the source of all my problems. Why didn't I think of this before...!

You didn't use antibiotics for the gums or the gut?

 

[Simonsays]

I think you an others are on the right track.

But i really noticed heavy plaque build up, about the time i was diagnosed hypo. I had never suffered this before, i could literally chip it off the back of my teeth (i still can if i dont keep on top of it). I developed IBS symptoms , dairy allergies. I suffer coated tongue and tonsil stones ever since, my breath doesnt smell great. My gums continually recede. I think its related with bacterial gut health and mouth health . I awake in the mornings with dry mouth, so the bacteria/plaque has a field day.

But i also think as Brian states, is the quality of the saliva isnt good enough to counteract the bacteria, all probably to do with hypo.

I floss every day and clean using an electronic brush. My orthodontist says not to rub with this as it destroys the gum, just rest it against the gum line.

I have to visit every her 4 months for a thorough de clean of all the plaque build up , regardless, its a constant battle. I mentioned hypothyroidism to her and gut health, but she hadnt heard of the connection. Its like a visit to a "miner" when i visit, her drilling away the deposits.

 

[Interactome]

But i also think as Brian states, is the quality of the saliva isnt good enough to counteract the bacteria, all probably to do with hypo.

I'll test my rT3 in a few weeks, as all the others were fine last I measured.

I'm thinking, if there is some hypo going on then it too could be a reaction to infection/endotoxin. There must be a reason for going hypo, and it's most likely because the body is depleted (by the infection/toxicity/malnutrition/chronic stress) of some nutrient necessary for keeping metabolism going. The body can only withstand the onslaught of endotoxin caused by the overgrowth of a nasty strain (like "thegiantess" said) for so long until something gets depleted and the body sufficiently injured. Only then will the body go hypo. I've been searching for what's going on for almost 2 years now (often trying to ignore things bc docs said it's nothing, which ended up making me worse), and only recently started looking at the microbiome.

The question is then, how can we permanently change the microbiome in our GI to something less destructive? A ubiome test I did a few months ago showed this for my mouth:

Streptococcus: 60.13%
Haemophilus: 16.85%
Veillonella: 8.86%
Abiotrophia: 3.02%
Gemella: 2.78%
Actinomyces: 1.93%
Porphyromonas: 1.48%
Granulicatella: 0.85%
Prevotella: 0.72%
Fusobacterium: 0.67%
Rothia: 0.44%
Capnocytophaga: 0.38%
Leptotrichia: 0.31%
Aggregatibacter: 0.24%
Neisseria: 0.22%
Actinobacillus: 0.22%
Staphylococcus: 0.13%
Bergeyella: 0.13%
Lautropia: 0.10%
Lachnoanaerobaculum: 0.09%
Stomatobaculum: 0.06%
Methylobacterium: 0.05%
Corynebacterium: 0.05%
Campylobacter: 0.03%
Oribacterium: 0.03%
Bradyrhizobium: 0.03%
Megasphaera: 0.03%
Propionibacterium: 0.02%
Peptostreptococcus: 0.02%
Novosphingobium: 0.01%
Solobacterium: < 0.01%
Aquabacterium: < 0.01%
Atopobium: < 0.01%
Phyllobacterium: < 0.01%
Finegoldia: < 0.01%
Shinella: < 0.01%
Delftia: < 0.01%
Peptoniphilus: < 0.01%
Sphingomonas: < 0.01%

I'm repeating it now to see if it stays the same. I should have an answer in 6 weeks.

 

[Interactome]

And for the gut it showed this:


Faecalibacterium: 28.11%
Bacteroides: 12.64%
Blautia: 11.52%
Haemophilus: 10.36%
Streptococcus: 8.88%
Roseburia: 4.85%
Anaerostipes: 4.45%
Anaeroplasma: 2.17%
Subdoligranulum: 1.55%
Sutterella: 1.45%
Collinsella: 1.05%
Pseudobutyrivibrio: 1.00%
Sarcina: 0.96%
Erysipelatoclostridium: 0.92%
Barnesiella: 0.74%
Dorea: 0.68%
Phascolarctobacterium: 0.63%
Corynebacterium: 0.60%
Alistipes: 0.52%
Parabacteroides: 0.46%
Bifidobacterium: 0.46%
Paraprevotella: 0.45%
Lachnospira: 0.45%
Bilophila: 0.36%
Veillonella: 0.28%
Terrisporobacter: 0.24%
Enterorhabdus: 0.22%
Actinomyces: 0.19%
Odoribacter: 0.15%
Clostridium: 0.13%
Marvinbryantia: 0.12%
Intestinibacter: 0.10%
Butyricimonas: 0.08%
Turicibacter: 0.06%
Slackia: 0.05%
Flavobacterium: 0.05%
Hespellia: 0.04%
Flavonifractor: 0.04%
Dialister: 0.04%
Aggregatibacter: 0.03%
Anaerococcus: 0.03%
Intestinimonas: 0.03%
Prevotella: 0.03%
Peptoniphilus: 0.02%
Finegoldia: 0.02%
Gordonibacter: 0.01%
Peptostreptococcus: 0.01%
Akkermansia: 0.01%
Howardella: < 0.01%
Granulicatella: < 0.01%
Atopobium: < 0.01%
Staphylococcus: < 0.01%
Rothia: < 0.01%
Enterococcus: < 0.01%
Porphyromonas: < 0.01%
Rahnella: < 0.01%
Actinobacillus: < 0.01%
Parasutterella: < 0.01%
Candidatus Soleaferrea: < 0.01%
Hafnia: < 0.01%
Peptoclostridium: < 0.01%
Methylobacterium: < 0.01%
Aquabacterium: < 0.01%
Anaerosporobacter: < 0.01%
Lactobacillus: < 0.01%
Gemella: < 0.01%

 

[thegiantess]

I'm also speculating if this couldn't be the source of all my problems. Why didn't I think of this before...!

You didn't use antibiotics for the gums or the gut?

I did use antibiotics it was one round and I don't remember which kind. But I think the deep cleaning (root planing) was what really fixed the problem. And obviously you have to maintain cleanings on a bi yearly basis from then on.

 

[Interactome]

I did use antibiotics it was one round and I don't remember which kind. But I think the deep cleaning (root planing) was what really fixed the problem. And obviously you have to maintain cleanings on a bi yearly basis from then on.

I took some penicillin when I went to the dentist but it hasn't taken care of it. So maybe I also need a culture and a test for what type of antibiotics they're susceptible for. I'm gonna try and do that in a few weeks. And also do the deep cleaning.

 

[thegiantess]

I took some penicillin when I went to the dentist but it hasn't taken care of it. So maybe I also need a culture and a test for what type of antibiotics they're susceptible for. I'm gonna try and do that in a few weeks. And also do the deep cleaning.

I'm not sure many dentists do the mouth Dna swab, but if you can find one that generally means they're pretty forward thinking and awesome. Good luck!

 

[Interactome]

I'm not sure many dentists do the mouth Dna swab, but if you can find one that generally means they're pretty forward thinking and awesome. Good luck!

But what about the uBiome results that I have, couldn't I base it on that? I have

Streptococcus: 60.13%
Haemophilus: 16.85%

at the top of it all. Those names don't sound very friendly to me, though I don't know much about what's normal and what not.

 

[ecstatichamster]

@DaveFoster have you tried red light?

My experience is as follows. Before low carbing/paleo I had a lot of bone loss. Then I used probiotics and improved my gut health somewhat and my teeth got better, my pockets shrunk down.

Then I started Peat inspired diet in December, 2015. My mouth hurt a lot. My teeth hurt. My gums hurt. I felt like I had gone backwards a lot. I stopped OJ and that helped. I think my magnesium and calcium ratios were bad but maybe overall I didn't have the cellular energetics to process all the sugar, OJ etc. I was consuming.

I had posted this then:
if you are aching and teeth hurting, may be too much magnesium

Now, about a month ago I had a cleaning, and it was perfect. The dentist and hygienist are the best of the best. They said they hadn't seen teeth as good as mine amongst any of their patients my age (mid 50s.)

And I floss but brush my teeth maybe once a day, if that.

And now I'm drinking 750ml or so of OJ and a lot of milk. No more teeth problems.

Anyway, to further improve...

I'm illuminating my mouth and teeth with very intense red light from the Red Light device from @RedLightMan. I am thinking this will help even more. I am careful to keep closing my mouth and making sure my teeth don't heat up. But I'd suggest you try it.

 

[FD8]

@DaveFoster have you tried red light?

My experience is as follows. Before low carbing/paleo I had a lot of bone loss. Then I used probiotics and improved my gut health somewhat and my teeth got better, my pockets shrunk down.

Then I started Peat inspired diet in December, 2015. My mouth hurt a lot. My teeth hurt. My gums hurt. I felt like I had gone backwards a lot. I stopped OJ and that helped. I think my magnesium and calcium ratios were bad but maybe overall I didn't have the cellular energetics to process all the sugar, OJ etc. I was consuming.

I had posted this then:
if you are aching and teeth hurting, may be too much magnesium

Now, about a month ago I had a cleaning, and it was perfect. The dentist and hygienist are the best of the best. They said they hadn't seen teeth as good as mine amongst any of their patients my age (mid 50s.)

And I floss but brush my teeth maybe once a day, if that.

And now I'm drinking 750ml or so of OJ and a lot of milk. No more teeth problems.

Anyway, to further improve...

I'm illuminating my mouth and teeth with very intense red light from the Red Light device from @RedLightMan. I am thinking this will help even more. I am careful to keep closing my mouth and making sure my teeth don't heat up. But I'd suggest you try it.

Really interesting, thanks for sharing

 

[judge]

brush your teeth with baking soda! It is magic on bacteria in the mouth! Rinse with oregano extract, good natural anti biotic. Coconut oil is good too just not as strong. I brush in this order, brush with cheap toothpaste, rinse, floss, brush with basking soda( and brush tongue, checks walls of mouth) gargle/rinse, use water pick, then use Philips sonicare electric toothbrush with LIVfree toothpaste, has EDTA in it. Teeth gums are amazing, had not been to dentist in 15 years. no plaque build up! I use to get a lot! And I am old! :)

FYI cut a garlic clove in half and place on any infection the mouth or any bad tooth. instant relief! Kills all bacteria fast! Burns a little too but helluva lot better than a tooth ache!