Receding Gums

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,846
Location
USA
Ever since starting the Ray Peat lifestyle I have noticed that my receding gums are ramping up in their erosion. :help It's getting pretty bad at this point and I am at a loss on what to do. When I was low carb, the erosion pretty much stopped. And now, :yipes

The two things that have changed majorly from low carb is sugar(fruits, simply syrup), and milk. I stopped the milk about a week ago with no relief, but at the same time I also upped my sugar and I noticed that my gums are even now more redder then usual. So a couple days ago I figured that hey, its the sugar doing this. I have been downing a lot of simple syrup this week, more then usual and the inflammation is even worse this week. So yesterday I decided to drop the simple syrup, coke, and lower my fruits a bit and see what happens. I need some relief!

Anyone else dealing with this? Did you remedy it and how? I dont want to lose my teeth! :pray
 

cliff

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
425
Age
32
Location
Los Angeles
I had gum problems for awhile, it was one of the reasons I started eating a more peat inspired diet. I would make sure your nutrition needs are being met, downing a lot of simple syrup without lots of nutrient rich food will probably cause problems. Eating plenty of oysters and liver would probably be a good idea, along with adequate fruit and milk. I would avoid commercial OJ and milk with vitamins. Rinsing your mouth with baking soda dissolved in water after meals is a good idea. Make sure you don't brush too hard.

Personally my gum problems had a lot to do with stress, try to avoid stressful situations or learn to deal with them a calm manner.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,846
Location
USA
Cliff, thanks for chiming in.

My diet is pretty good. I was just pushing the simply syrup this last week to see what happened. Only thing I need to work on is the commercial OJ. Been drinking a bit too much of that instead of fresh squeezing.

I definitely have a stress problem, I simply cannot handle it, at all. Trying to deal with it as best as I can, but doesn't seem like I am making much progress. Really hoping that if I am able to fix my thyroid and energy problems that it will help me handle stress better.

Onward and upward I suppose. I do have a sense of wellbeing for a moment or two a couple times a week. At least I have a glimpse of hope and something to look forward.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Charlie said:
Ever since starting the Ray Peat lifestyle I have noticed that my receding gums are ramping up in their erosion. :help It's getting pretty bad at this point and I am at a loss on what to do. When I was low carb, the erosion pretty much stopped. And now, :yipes

The two things that have changed majorly from low carb is sugar(fruits, simply syrup), and milk. I stopped the milk about a week ago with no relief, but at the same time I also upped my sugar and I noticed that my gums are even now more redder then usual. So a couple days ago I figured that hey, its the sugar doing this. I have been downing a lot of simple syrup this week, more then usual and the inflammation is even worse this week. So yesterday I decided to drop the simple syrup, coke, and lower my fruits a bit and see what happens. I need some relief!

Anyone else dealing with this? Did you remedy it and how? I dont want to lose my teeth! :pray

One data point to consider:
I have always had a little bit of a problem with bleeding gums.
Forever.
A few months ago I had an emergency appendectomy
during the course of and after which
I had to take a lot of different, intense antibiotics.

Since that time, for months now,
I have not had one speck of blood.
Not one speck.
 

ARK

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
60
Age
54
Location
Los Angeles
Cliff- Don't you also think that the gums (or most anything) can come from poor digestion? Once the digestion is fixed the gums( and teeth) should then resolve in time. Charlie- I think that fruits these days tend not to be grown properly and are picked before they are ripe- I would avoid fruit for a while.
 

FunkOdyssey

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
75
In my experience, there's a big difference in dental health between consuming sugar as fruit, and sugar in isolation (sugar by itself causes problems while fruit doesn't). You can easily feel the difference in biofilm-buildup on your teeth, a couple hours after a glass of orange juice, versus a couple hours after ingesting the same amount of pure sugar.

My theory is the fruit polyphenols and etc which defend the fruit against bacterial decay also prevent bacteria from thriving in your mouth.

Also with orange juice, studies suggest calcium-fortified OJ is much better for your teeth than standard OJ. For people who are drinking 1 or 2 quarts a day, this could make a huge difference.

J Am Dent Assoc. 2007 Dec;138(12):1593-8; quiz 1615.
In vitro protection against dental erosion afforded by commercially available, calcium-fortified 100 percent juices.
Davis RE, Marshall TA, Qian F, Warren JJ, Wefel JS.
Source

Department of Preventive and Community Dentistry, University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA 52242, USA.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Calcium in acidic beverages can decrease a person's risk of experiencing dental erosion. The authors compared the pHs and titratable acidities of commercially available calcium-fortified and unfortified 100 percent juices, and enamel and root surface lesion depths after they were exposed to different juices.
METHODS:

The authors measured the pH and titratable acidity of calcium-fortified and unfortified 100 percent juices. They exposed enamel and root surfaces to different 100 percent juices for 25 hours and measured lesion depths. They used the Spearman rank correlation test and the two-sample t test to identify associations between the juices' properties and lesion depths and to compare lesion depths between fortified and unfortified juices.
RESULTS:

The authors found that fortifying apple, orange and grapefruit juices with calcium prevented enamel erosion and decreased root surface erosion (P < .01). They also found that fortifying white grape juice with calcium decreased enamel erosion (P < .001) but not root surface erosion. They observed that mean lesion depths were greater in root surfaces than in enamel surfaces after exposure to unfortified orange juice and all fortified juices (P < .001).
CONCLUSIONS:

Calcium concentrations in commercially available, calcium-fortified 100 percent juices are sufficient to decrease and prevent erosion associated with extended exposure to a beverage.
CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS:

People at risk of experiencing erosion could decrease their erosion risk by consuming calcium-fortified juices.

PMID: 18056104
 

FunkOdyssey

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
75
Here's raisins as an example -- they contain ten different phytochemicals with anti-biotic activity. This is why you want to get most of your sugar from fruit sources if dental health is a priority.

J Nutr. 2009 Sep;139(9):1818S-23S. Epub 2009 Jul 29.
Grape products and oral health.
Wu CD.
Source

Department of Pediatric Dentistry, College of Dentistry, University of Illinois, Chicago, IL 60612, USA. chriswu@uic.edu
Abstract

Oral diseases, including dental caries, periodontal disease, and tooth loss, affect the majority of the population and can affect a person's overall health. Raisins contain polyphenols, flavonoids, and high levels of iron that may benefit human health. However, their oral health benefits are less well understood. We hypothesized that raisins contain antimicrobial phytochemicals capable of suppressing oral pathogens associated with caries or periodontal diseases and thus benefit oral health. Through antimicrobial assay-guided fractionation and purification, compounds identified with growth inhibition against oral pathogens were oleanolic acid, oleanolic aldehyde, linoleic acid, linolenic acid, betulin, betulinic acid, 5-(hydroxymethyl)-2-furfural, rutin, beta-sitosterol, and beta-sitosterol glucoside. Oleanolic acid suppressed in vitro adherence of cariogenic Streptococcus mutans biofilm. When the effect of raisins and raisin-containing bran cereal on in vivo plaque acidogenicity was examined in 7- to 11-y-old children, it was found that raisins did not reduce the plaque pH decline below pH 6 over the 30-min test period. Compared with commercial bran flakes or raisin bran cereal, a lower plaque pH drop was noted in children who consumed a raisin and bran flake mixture when no sugar was added (P < 0.05). Grape seed extract, high in proanthocyanidins, positively affected the in vitro demineralization and/or remineralization processes of artificial root caries lesions, suggesting its potential as a promising natural agent for noninvasive root caries therapy. Raisins represent a healthy alternative to the commonly consumed sugary snack foods.

PMID: 19640974
 

ARK

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
60
Age
54
Location
Los Angeles
Ray Peat would NEVER recommend "Calcium fortified" anything!!! In terms of teeth or anything else: SUGAR is good and fine. Fruit is good too. There has never been much agreement about what causes dental caries. But, Ray seems to think that the saliva in the teeth is effected by thyroid and estrogen levels. Sugar helps T3. No offense FunkOdyssey- This is about Ray Peat and if you have read or heard any of what Ray says... you are way off in terms of his recommendation. Everything is effected by digestion! Thyroid plays into all your health including your dental health. Sugar fixes thyroid issues and then should not be in issue with the teeth ( as popular culture says it does)
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
The Joy of Antibiotics

I would think "receding gums" and "bleeding gums" are related in that
they both fall under the category of
"periodontal disease"...right?

I had chronically bleeding gums for as long as I can remember
and my general gum health and periodontal health wasn't that great.

As I said above in the thread,
after I took several rounds of antibiotics
during and after my appendectomy,
intravenous and oral...

...my gums stopped bleeding.
And they have not bled even one tiny bit for 4 months now.

I always avoided antibiotics up until then
because like most of us "health food types"
I considered antibiotics tantamount to the antichrist. :twisted:

But you may know that Peat is said to take penicillin on a daily basis
in an effort to keep his gut as close to sterile as possible
(his work point for that is said to be that in mice studies
those mice with sterile guts had the best health and longest lives).

So if it were me, Charlie,
I'd try a round 'o antibiotics.
(don't take Flagyl though...that stuff has horrible mood effects!) :cry:
 

FunkOdyssey

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
75
ARK said:
Ray Peat would NEVER recommend "Calcium fortified" anything!!! In terms of teeth or anything else: SUGAR is good and fine. Fruit is good too. There has never been much agreement about what causes dental caries. But, Ray seems to think that the saliva in the teeth is effected by thyroid and estrogen levels. Sugar helps T3. No offense FunkOdyssey- This is about Ray Peat and if you have read or heard any of what Ray says... you are way off in terms of his recommendation. Everything is effected by digestion! Thyroid plays into all your health including your dental health. Sugar fixes thyroid issues and then should not be in issue with the teeth ( as popular culture says it does)

No offense taken, people have different approaches and interpretations. I think Ray Peat has tons of great ideas that have inspired me and are improving my health but I remain an independent critical thinker. As far as sugar goes, you can find quotes from Peat saying he rinses his mouth with a baking soda solution after consuming sugar. Why is this necessary? Because sugar feeds oral bacteria, which reduces oral pH as they metabolize the sugar, and then the acid rots your teeth. Healthy mineral-rich saliva, promoted by thyroid, vitamin K2, etc helps mitigate this problem to a large degree, but not permitting oral bacteria to grow in the first place nips it right in the bud.

I'm just pointing out, if you don't think baking soda rinses after every time you consume sugar are practical, you might want to emphasize fruits instead of refined sugar, as fruits contain phytochemicals which prevent the sugar they contain from breeding bacteria and reducing pH in the mouth.

I'm aware Ray Peat cautions against additives as possible sources of contamination. I personally feel pretty good about drinking OJ fortified with tricalcium phosphate, which is the same form of calcium found in milk. Also my stomach doesn't seem to like 48+ ounces of acidic OJ without the buffering effect provided by the calcium phosphate.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,846
Location
USA
Narouz, I got a few antibiotics on hand. Wonder which one I should take? :lol: I am going to go through them and search online about what works for what and maybe give it a go for a round. Maybe it will help my gut to? Things arent moving to well right now.


Btw, I was already considering taking a round of antibiotics. So no worries there. :neener
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Charlie, I think that when D. Roddy was discussing Peat's use of antibiotics
he said Peat used penicillin.

When I was in the hospital
they were dripping some kind of antibiotic into me continuously, intravenously.
Then they gave me Cipromycin (sp?) orally when I got out
(which did seem to give me bad diarrhea, so I stopped),
and then they gave me Flagyl because they were worried about an outside chance
of the deadly c. difficile bacteria (turns out I never had it).
That Flagyl...I'd rather have the periodontal disease. ;)

I don't mean to harp on the antibiotic thing,
but it was a bit in the nature of a revelation to me:
a lifetime of bleeding gums
erased
with some antibiotics.
I go around blabbing about it to anyone who will listen. :oops:
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,846
Location
USA
I'm listening my friend and taking notes. :thankyou Would love to nip this receding gum crap in the bud.
 

nwo2012

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
Penicillin is one of the safer ABs for sure. Steer clear of ciprofloxacin at all costs.
For your stress have you tried pregnenolone combined with niacinamide?

Also regularly washing out the mouth by baking soda (in water) but very dilute.

You could give oil pulling a try (with coconut oil). Did wonders for my wife's gums.
Firs thing in the morning you put a tablespoon of oil in the mouth then swish around
for about 20 minutes. Then spit it put (down toilet best). Then rinse out with salt water
and then with baking soda. Should see improvement in a week or so.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,846
Location
USA
nwo, thanks for the info. I do have a "cillin" laying round here somewhere. Eventually i am going to dose myself up with it.

Yes, I have been using pregnenolone. Hard to tell if its working. Anytime I try to use niancinamide, my hair starts falling out at a faster rate. Not sure whats up with that.

The last couple days I have been doing the baking soda thing and washing the mouth out, i think it might be actually working. :rockout

Havent tried the oil pulling, but thats next on my list. Thank you!
 

nwo2012

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
Charlie said:
nwo, thanks for the info. I do have a "cillin" laying round here somewhere. Eventually i am going to dose myself up with it.

Yes, I have been using pregnenolone. Hard to tell if its working. Anytime I try to use niancinamide, my hair starts falling out at a faster rate. Not sure whats up with that.

The last couple days I have been doing the baking soda thing and washing the mouth out, i think it might be actually working. :rockout

Havent tried the oil pulling, but thats next on my list. Thank you!

Excellent news mate. :D
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,846
Location
USA
Thank you jgreer. I think Ray Peat talks about CoQ10. I will have to look into it.

However, I think if you get the metabolism going, and take care of any underlying infections. That should possibly take care of the gum disease. Hopefully.
 

Spacehoppa

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
36
One thing I have found is great for treating bleeding, receding gums is to clean your teeth with bentonite clay. I suffer from bleeding gums when my estrogen is too dominant. But recently I have switched to cleaning my teeth with bentonite clay (which as an aside also works to abort cold sores before they blister if used mixed with water to form a paste). I use the clay dry on the end of my tooth brush. I would imagine that it's drawing effect helps remove bacteria from the mouth and its slight abrasiveness does a wonderful job cleaning the stains from my teeth. Plus, I think the simple act of having traces of calcium and other minerals left around your teeth may help strengthen them. Certainly my teeth seem smoother and the enamel thicker (teeth seem whiter and not as see through). Honestly, I can't say enough good things about bentonite clay. My husband uses it in his psoriasis plaques, and I seem to find a new use for it myself every so often as well. So far though, the toothpaste is the best!
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
2,038
Location
USA
Spacehoppa said:
One thing I have found is great for treating bleeding, receding gums is to clean your teeth with bentonite clay. I suffer from bleeding gums when my estrogen is too dominant. But recently I have switched to cleaning my teeth with bentonite clay (which as an aside also works to abort cold sores before they blister if used mixed with water to form a paste). I use the clay dry on the end of my tooth brush. I would imagine that it's drawing effect helps remove bacteria from the mouth and its slight abrasiveness does a wonderful job cleaning the stains from my teeth. Plus, I think the simple act of having traces of calcium and other minerals left around your teeth may help strengthen them. Certainly my teeth seem smoother and the enamel thicker (teeth seem whiter and not as see through). Honestly, I can't say enough good things about bentonite clay. My husband uses it in his psoriasis plaques, and I seem to find a new use for it myself every so often as well. So far though, the toothpaste is the best!
This sounds good if it seems to thicken the tooth enamel. Mine is looking mighty thin. I've been using baking soda which somebody said helped thicken enamel but it hasn't mine...
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
PhilParma Peripheral Neuropathy, Rapidly Receding Gums + Bloods Blood Work, Labs 97
DaveFoster Receding Gums Part 2 Oral Health 34
ddjd how can i prevent hairline receding further? (photos attached) Ask For Help or Advice 76
U I Need Help To Grow Back My Receding Hairline. [20yo MALE] Hair & Nails 203
M Goal: Reversing My Receding Hair Line With Hair Like A Fox. Let's Try! Logs 54
TheHound Receding And Thinning Hair Hair & Nails 55
J My gums are white. Need help! Oral Health 0
L Infection In Tooth Possibly Spreading To Gums Oral Health 12
berk Vitamin C Cause Bleeding Gums, Not Sure Why Symptoms, Causes 13
K Ulceration On Left Palate Gums, What To Do? Oral Health 0
S Bleeding Gums Mystery Oral Health 24
T Swollen Gums/gums Growing In Between Teeth Ask For Help or Advice 7
J Questions On Deodorants/Chewing Gums/Cologne Body Care 5
I CT Scan For Tooth Growing Through Gums? Oral Health 8
K Tortilla Brands Without Gums? Starches, Fiber, Legumes 5
TurtleNeck Are Gums Like Guar, Carob And Arabicum Not That Bad? Ask For Help or Advice 1
mayweatherking Bleeding Gums And Aspirin? Ask For Help or Advice 5
T Chemical Sensitivity, Bleeding Gums, Heart Palpitations Ask For Help or Advice 6
C peeing a lot and bleeding gums Ask For Help or Advice 33
P Why does everything have gums and soy Rant or Rave 8
Edward Eggshell Calcium, Bloodshot Eyes, Bleeding Gums Calcium 4

Similar threads

Top