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Progesterone feminizing effects?

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Mar 28, 2021
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I want to start trying progesterone to address some high cortisol/estrogen symptoms I am experiencing (sleep interruptions, digestive issues, low energy/brain fog etc.) but I have read that it may not be a good supplement for men. I have even seen some forum users say it started to physically feminize them, something which i would obviously like to avoid. Do any males on here have experience with supplementing progesterone and have you experienced these effects?
 

equipoise

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It's a myth, I assure you Progesterone in proper doses is not feminizing at all. Anyways I think males with good natural T levels are gonna benefit even more from P4. @SonOfEurope is your expert on this
 

perceivethinkac

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It's a myth, I assure you Progesterone in proper doses is not feminizing at all. Anyways I think males with good natural T levels are gonna benefit even more from P4. @SonOfEurope is your expert on this
What doses are considered appropriate for opposing estrogen/cortisol sufficiently?
 

BrianF

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Yeah used it several times before, no femenising happened. Might have looked a little more youthful in same way preg did, but still 100% masculine. If any thing the anti - estrogen effect allowed more testosterone to be utilised.
 

perceivethinkac

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Yeah used it several times before, no femenising happened. Might have looked a little more youthful in same way preg did, but still 100% masculine. If any thing the anti - estrogen effect allowed more testosterone to be utilised.
What dose were you using and for what reason? And I assume you did Progest-E?
 

fr@

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@perceivethinkac

Thanks for opening up this topic!

I'm actually using Progest-E for 2 months now (excluding the weeks I cycle off) and it's also the only Progesterone product I've tested as of yet.
As far as the effects are concerned (based from my experience), if taken around bed time it'll get me more into sleep mode.

[I could easily compare it as to taking CBD for sleep.]

Basically how it works for me:

- on bed time I take it, to make sure that I really get to sleep
- and if I wake up again after 4 hours or so, I take another shot of it so I can get back to sleep
- and so far I'm getting better sleep because of it
- as with its other effects, I don't know except better sleep -- maybe it's other effects can be seen through blood work though.

As far how I use it, I'm just 'eyeballing' the dose I'm taking (and not really sure how many mg there is on the days I'm taking it), basically:

- I drop a pea sized viscous oil (the Progesterone) into my navel
- and another drop under the tongue

Back then I also rub it on my gums, just like what Ray Peat mentioned -- but I find it messy so I've skipped the part.
I was also rubbing it on my neck and chest, but after a while I get dry skin; so I've skipped that as well.

And since you mentioned the 'Feminizing' effects of Progesterone... it got me worried (just now).

[I haven't noticed anything bad so far though...]

Also there's a tool that I've also seen here in the RPF Community: Bioenergetic Search
So I've typed-in 'progesterone feminizing' and there's actually a snippet of Ray Peat saying that:

"...if taken in large amounts it antagonizes the effects of Testosterone."
"...the dose is an individual matter, the quality of your Thyroid Function, Your Diet, Liver, and so on, affects your response to it."
"...it is important that your Thyroid is good, a low Thyroid Function can increase their risk of Cancer if they use anything Estrogenic."

Now as with the Progest-E Dose, based on their Instructions:

"A drop weighing 60 mg looks about the size of an unpopped kernel of popcorn."
"For a drop weighing 60 mg contains 6 mg of Progesterone."
"Generally, people use about 2-3 drops of this size per day, however the rate of use can vary."

With that said, I'll now cycle-off again from taking Progesterone and make sure that I only take 1-2 drops max.
'Cause most of the times, I get to do like 6 drops a day or so; most likely on days where I wake up right away.

===

As with lowering Estrogen or keeping it at bay, I've been using:

- Calcium D-Glucarate (just 1x a week, 'cause taking it consecutively gives me some swelling on my Thyroid; I always notice it right away when I do neck exercises)
- Olive Leaf Extract (basically I use this to lower my BP for my end of day meal for better sleep, but it also keeps Estrogen at bay; I'd suggest you read more about it)

[Going back to CDG, I don't think it's for everyone; as its effects might be a bit drastic for some; but it gives me better erections, so I keep using it :grin]

As with something that gives you a noticeable lowering of Cortisol, I've been using:

- Niacinamide (I'd start with 50-100 mg several times a day, as recommended by Ray Peat)
- Aspirin

[As with the Niacinamide, I use the powder form, so there's lots of times where I take more than what I can handle and get headaches.]

Both of those at regular doses also gives me noticeable Eye Bags, so the lower dose approach works for me.

As with 'Digestive Issues, Low Energy & Brain Fog':

- I could only think that it's due to Food Selection
- A lot of the issues I've noticed are from Carb sources that has lots of Tryptophan
- And also the usuals: Gluteny, Processed, lots of Soluble Fiber (ie. Oats), etc

But the easiest but tedious I can suggest as far as Gut Issues are concerned is the ever so famous Ray Peat Salad (coined by Danny Roddy if I got that right).
And based on my experience, this way of doing the Carrot Salad worked the best for me:

- Grate the Carrots
- Squeeze out the Juice
- Consume the Carrot Pulp

[Doing so gets you better Stool Formation, rather than seeing random chunks for Carrots floating.]

I also don't find adding any oil to be necessary as I'm already taking drop(s) of Oil of Oregano under the tongue before consuming the Carrot Pulp.
I also chug liquids right away and make sure that I'm not chewing too much of Carrot Pulp.
And after that, I gargle with Coconut Oil just to remove stains on my teeth, and in doing so I probably get to consume like half a teaspoon or so of the Coconut Oil.

[But I'm also questioning the use of Oil of Oregano if it would be an overkill if used daily or if there's any 'Synergistic Effects' on taking it with the Carrot Salad.]

Anyway, the process takes me about 30 minutes or so, so maybe a Food Processor would help speed up this process
 
Last edited:

SonOfEurope

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What dose were you using and for what reason? And I assume you did Progest-E?

Hello perceivethinkac,!

It's the hormone of youthfulness both in a masculine and feminine ways depending on the other hormones in the human body. It can only be feminizing in the context of a woman's hormones eg. Absence of androgens with a monthly estrogen surge.

At a daily 6 - 12 mg it should Increase temperature, enhance metabolism, protect T from excessive aromatization and contribute to muscle gain and muscle retention as it opposes the catabolic effect of Cortisol on muscles (even more strongly than T) without resulting anti-androgenic from out-competing testosterone for the enzyme 5ar and lowering DHT.

You have to increase minerals if you use it, it's so anti glucocorticoid it will put calcium in the right place and increase need for potassium and sodium.

I recommend it cycled, two weeks on two off to let the body take a break. Because it will flush Estrogen from cells you might want a high dose of over 100mg for 3 days and then bring it down to 10mg. You'll be very sedated/relaxed so careful driving and stuff like that.
 
T

TheBeard

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It can only be feminizing in the context of a woman's hormones eg. Absence of androgens with a monthly estrogen surge.

Progesterone is what they give to sexual offenders here in France to chemically castrate them.
So I would assume even in the context of androgens it can take over a manly man.
 

BrianF

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What dose were you using and for what reason? And I assume you did Progest-E?
idealabs' cortinon. I used only a few drops a day, sometimes in my navel, often just between my bottom lips and my gums. I found it androgenic if anything.
 

sleepson

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Hello perceivethinkac,!

It's the hormone of youthfulness both in a masculine and feminine ways depending on the other hormones in the human body. It can only be feminizing in the context of a woman's hormones eg. Absence of androgens with a monthly estrogen surge.

At a daily 6 - 12 mg it should Increase temperature, enhance metabolism, protect T from excessive aromatization and contribute to muscle gain and muscle retention as it opposes the catabolic effect of Cortisol on muscles (even more strongly than T) without resulting anti-androgenic from out-competing testosterone for the enzyme 5ar and lowering DHT.

You have to increase minerals if you use it, it's so anti glucocorticoid it will put calcium in the right place and increase need for potassium and sodium.

I recommend it cycled, two weeks on two off to let the body take a break. Because it will flush Estrogen from cells you might want a high dose of over 100mg for 3 days and then bring it down to 10mg. You'll be very sedated/relaxed so careful driving and stuff like that.
I've been using Progestene, 6-20 mg (in the navel or sometimes in OJ) fairly sporadically in the evenings before bed and have noticed improvements in sleep. However I have not heard about the two week cycling. Just recently switched to Progest-e and I would dose about 3 drops on the gums or sublingually but felt a bit adrenalized so I would take another 2-3 drops to achieve the mild calming effects. I wonder if this is a sign that I should cycle off
 

SonOfEurope

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What dose were you using and for what reason? And I assume you did Progest-E?

Progesterone is what they give to sexual offenders here in France to chemically castrate them.
So I would assume even in the context of androgens it can take over a manly man.

I know beard but there's a difference between 40mg/week and 600mg. Also are those progestins or bio-indentical P4? Just curious.

It does tank both E2 and by nature DHT's actions in large doses that vary from man to man. So far I've been in contact with at least 5 fellows who wanted to try it and wanted to go 30mg/day reading my posts, I told them that was an emergency situation for me to come off pharma meds and adviced them a much lower dose (12mg max) and so far, several months in they're all doing better in physique and energy.

I don't recommend the 28mg I did daily to restore my natural GABA sensitivity unless the situation is dire - just a much lower dose, especially in a world where estrogenic bombardment is in the air and both genders have lost the proper ratios of Estrogens-to-progesterone.

In my individual case I did not experience any reduction in sexual function while on it (and certainly not currently on 6 mg) but I did experience less of an impulsive sex drive and was actually able to be more calm with girls and became more successful with them. My beard, chest and forearm hair actually became denser... My bones more robust and no, no shrinkage but I had plenty of calcium, D, zinc, B-vitamins and small amounts of DHEA at my disposal. I lifted weights.

And I'm not saying this is the case for every man (Some do react to moderate doses of it with much reduced DHT metabolism) but I don't see any harm in low cycled doses for protection... 6mg is better at controlling Aromatasa than opposing DHT signaling and if fear is present then go with pregnenolone for more balance.

I mean even if you supplement 20mg of Pregnenolone a day (a minimal dose remembering Peat himself and countless others did grams per week) at least 10% of that will go down that route. But of course DHEA as well.

Progesterone alone had little effect on secondary sexual characteristics in the absence of women's estrogen bursts and insignificant Testosterone production. It's just a hormone of youth needed for the very cellular and brain protection in both genders. But to those who are still cautious simply go with a good pregnenolone source and improve thyroid to optimize both Progestogenic and Androgenic output.

The sexual impulses of sexual offenders tend to be more based on addiction-for-thrill rather than genuine healthy attraction. Estrogen plays a huge role in addiction for thrill. Either way in a "theoretically Absolutely healthy young man" with good thyroid, Zinc and no adrenal wreckage about 20mg of it are produced naturally and this is almost the same amount Women produce in the low-p4 part of their cycle. Amount is everything.
 

fr@

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Progesterone is what they give to sexual offenders here in France to chemically castrate them.
So I would assume even in the context of androgens it can take over a manly man.
Not sure if it's a historical fact :grin but good to know.

@SonOfEurope

Thanks for the helpful response (even though it's not my thread... haha).

But how to do you dose Pregnenolone, do you also take it at the same time when taking Progesterone?
 
T

TheBeard

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Not sure if it's a historical fact :grin but good to know.

@SonOfEurope

Thanks for the helpful response (even though it's not my thread... haha).

But how to do you dose Pregnenolone, do you also take it at the same time when taking Progesterone?

It's not history, it's what's happening in my country right now.
 

James b

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It's not history, it's what's happening in my country right now.
I think the hypersexuality, addictive pathologies of prisoners, high estrogen and the actual form of progesterone are all important. As SonofEurope pointed out. The numbing of the penis in the hundreds of milligram doses was never a contentious issue here.
 

perceivethinkac

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Hello perceivethinkac,!

It's the hormone of youthfulness both in a masculine and feminine ways depending on the other hormones in the human body. It can only be feminizing in the context of a woman's hormones eg. Absence of androgens with a monthly estrogen surge.

At a daily 6 - 12 mg it should Increase temperature, enhance metabolism, protect T from excessive aromatization and contribute to muscle gain and muscle retention as it opposes the catabolic effect of Cortisol on muscles (even more strongly than T) without resulting anti-androgenic from out-competing testosterone for the enzyme 5ar and lowering DHT.

You have to increase minerals if you use it, it's so anti glucocorticoid it will put calcium in the right place and increase need for potassium and sodium.

I recommend it cycled, two weeks on two off to let the body take a break. Because it will flush Estrogen from cells you might want a high dose of over 100mg for 3 days and then bring it down to 10mg. You'll be very sedated/relaxed so careful driving and stuff like that.
Thanks for your input,

Given my symptoms I think I will try the 100 mg for 3 days, then bring it down to 10 mg (at night). I am already taking 50 mg of pregnenolone per day in the morning but not seeing any benefit. My symptoms are pretty bad so maybe a higher dose should be considered. Do you recommend progest E, progestene or cortinon (progesterone/DHEA)? Definitely want to try to avoid worse sexual function if possible.
 

Nomane Euger

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It's not history, it's what's happening in my country right now.
ripe oranges at first shrinked my testicles instantly,made me feel 0 estrogen 0 DHT no erections,no sex dreams,no sexual thoughts,childish voice,and sensitive gut feeling when tinking about stuffs,i believe it could be the naringenin,it felt like castration but at the same time back to childhood frame of mind wellbeing and sensitivity
 

SonOfEurope

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Thanks for your input,

Given my symptoms I think I will try the 100 mg for 3 days, then bring it down to 10 mg (at night). I am already taking 50 mg of pregnenolone per day in the morning but not seeing any benefit. My symptoms are pretty bad so maybe a higher dose should be considered. Do you recommend progest E, progestene or cortinon (progesterone/DHEA)? Definitely want to try to avoid worse sexual function if possible.

You're welcome,

Advice: Bring the pregnenolone down a bit. To 30mg if you'll start P4.

Glad you're doing the 100mg /3 day to flush excess Estrogens... Might feel odd though.

I would recommend progest-E at 4 drops per day which is around 12-13mg always have food with it. I know it's hard to measure a "drop" of the formula because it's so viscous but if you hold the bottle down eventually gravity will start to squeeze it out, then that's when you apply a tiny bit of pressure and a grain of rice or maybe just a bit bigger is what you should see and that's close to 3mg. Lift it with the tip of your tongue and try to rub it around the gums.... The rest will be absorbed by digestion.

Space it out 4x daily or take 6mg breakfast 6mg dinner as you wish.

Think of it as a counter to the estrogenic toxicity we ingest daily. It opposes Cortisol and aldosterone which is anabolic for bone and muscles the same way testosterone is but it is not androgenic like T and in higher doses it will compete with it for enzymatic reductions that will lower DHT efficiency (temporary effects) so keep it below 15mg is my best advice.

It's an anabolic and pro thyroid substance, like all of them they can backfire if you don't give the body more energy so using P4/P5 while undereating is more detrimental than beneficial.

If you're taking pregnenolone some is turning to DHEA. This pathway is more favored by a lower dose while a high dose can just be massively Progestogenic and Allo-pregnenolonic so it's up to you, I did use DHEA but minimal dose.

How much calcium and magnesium are you getting daily? Aim for 1g calcium and 500mg Mag. Eat a bit more salt too.

It takes time to see the benefits. One of the first things you notice though is that (assuming proper nutrition) you skin wounds heal faster and recovery time from a workout should be a liiitttle bit shorter. Again in the context of a good environment.

Try to take one week off it because the liver and tissues need a break. Especially if youre already on pregnenolone.

ProgestE will be giving you Vitamin E - this aids in its transport to the cell and synergism so I'd advice some vitamin K full spectrum too.
 

perceivethinkac

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You're welcome,

Advice: Bring the pregnenolone down a bit. To 30mg if you'll start P4.

Glad you're doing the 100mg /3 day to flush excess Estrogens... Might feel odd though.

I would recommend progest-E at 4 drops per day which is around 12-13mg always have food with it. I know it's hard to measure a "drop" of the formula because it's so viscous but if you hold the bottle down eventually gravity will start to squeeze it out, then that's when you apply a tiny bit of pressure and a grain of rice or maybe just a bit bigger is what you should see and that's close to 3mg. Lift it with the tip of your tongue and try to rub it around the gums.... The rest will be absorbed by digestion.

Space it out 4x daily or take 6mg breakfast 6mg dinner as you wish.

Think of it as a counter to the estrogenic toxicity we ingest daily. It opposes Cortisol and aldosterone which is anabolic for bone and muscles the same way testosterone is but it is not androgenic like T and in higher doses it will compete with it for enzymatic reductions that will lower DHT efficiency (temporary effects) so keep it below 15mg is my best advice.

It's an anabolic and pro thyroid substance, like all of them they can backfire if you don't give the body more energy so using P4/P5 while undereating is more detrimental than beneficial.

If you're taking pregnenolone some is turning to DHEA. This pathway is more favored by a lower dose while a high dose can just be massively Progestogenic and Allo-pregnenolonic so it's up to you, I did use DHEA but minimal dose.

How much calcium and magnesium are you getting daily? Aim for 1g calcium and 500mg Mag. Eat a bit more salt too.

It takes time to see the benefits. One of the first things you notice though is that (assuming proper nutrition) you skin wounds heal faster and recovery time from a workout should be a liiitttle bit shorter. Again in the context of a good environment.

Try to take one week off it because the liver and tissues need a break. Especially if youre already on pregnenolone.

ProgestE will be giving you Vitamin E - this aids in its transport to the cell and synergism so I'd advice some vitamin K full spectrum too.
I'm a little confused: shouldnt progesterone be taken at night due to the sedation? And when you say you recommend the 4 drops per day I assume you are saying after the original 100 mg for 3 days?

Also, since higher doses of pregnenolone are progestogenic, is there any benefit to supplementing progesterone on its own as opposed to just a higher dose of preg?

Currently getting around 2g calcium from an egg shell and 1-1.5g Mg glycinate per day.
 

SonOfEurope

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I'm a little confused: shouldnt progesterone be taken at night due to the sedation? And when you say you recommend the 4 drops per day I assume you are saying after the original 100 mg for 3 days?

Also, since higher doses of pregnenolone are progestogenic, is there any benefit to supplementing progesterone on its own as opposed to just a higher dose of preg?

Currently getting around 2g calcium from an egg shell and 1-1.5g Mg glycinate per day.


Pregnenolone has actions of its own that are more neuro-steroidal or a bit less hormonal than Progesterone.... The body does not want an excess of DHEA so large dose pregnenolone is mostly stored and turned into Progesterone that a lot of which is then quickly changed to GABA related neurosteroids.

If you take 50mg Pregnenolone per day some of it will eventually end up as every hormone but the body tries to maintain homeostasis. Still it's like taking a bit of Progesterone and tiny bit of DHEA plus a protective layer of a higher precursor. But it's not as directly antiestrogenic and anti mineralocorticoid as progesterone dissolved in vit. E.

The 100mg thing for 3 days at night of course! With a lot of glucose/sucrose! But when I spoke of bringing the dose down it's around 3mg per tiny squeeze so in a quarter of a teaspoon of guess you'd have 30mg approx.

Past the first days of over 100mg do bring it down to <15mg because in doses higher it does oppose DHT from its similarity to Testosterone but even higher affinity for 5-Alpha... And yes I still advice you reduce the Pregnenolone or Id feel it's overkill.

Do you have labs to see where your hormones are right now? How is diet, BF%, sleep and daily stress.?
 

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