Progesterone therapy in men (transgender women), does not significantly effect, testosterone, libido and weight

[learnedhelpless]

This is a 2 month old study, so it is not available on Sci Hub, but given that the doses of progesterone, for gender - reassignment, are 100–400 mg/day, this shows that when progesterone is used in super-physoligical doses that are 50x / 2250 % - 200x /19900% greater than the average production of progesterone for males, it barely affects testosterone production, libido and weight.

Given that progesterone is blocks the effects and reduces the synthesis of cortisol and estrogen, I suspect, that their testosterone/cortisol or estrogen ratios must of increased significantly.

Effects of progesterone on gender affirmation outcomes as part of feminizing hormone therapy​

"The addition of progesterone to standard feminizing GAHT was associated with greater satisfaction with breast development and improved patient mental health within 6 months compared with standard GAHT regimens alone in this patient population. Progesterone's impact on libido, testosterone suppression, and weight were nonsignificant."

 

[xeliex]

I remember Ray on an interview, answering a caller's question, saying that progesterone could be used to aid that transition instead of estrogen.

 

[xeliex]

It be blooming them breasts!
Let me read some more about their methods.


"...all patients included in this study were also prescribed the antiandrogen spironolactone at varying doses."

 

[learnedhelpless]

View attachment 56380

It be blooming them breasts!
Let me read some more about their methods.

yep progesterone does have those effects.

View attachment 56380

It be blooming them breasts!
Let me read some more about their methods.


"...all patients included in this study were also prescribed the antiandrogen spironolactone at varying doses."

Wow thank you. The link must of just been updated today! We can read the whole study now.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Still people on this forum claim that progesterone will not affect breast development in males. "It's detoxing estrogen, bro, keep going" xd

Not only it gave me gyno (along with a lot of people on this forum) but it also lowered my libido to almost non-existent levels and who knows whether I will ever get it back.

Also, I believe all the short-term benefits I experience from progesterone (calmness, lowered inflammation) along with side effects (peeing a lot, feeling wired up after using it for a while) come from its conversion to cortisol.

So, fun times xd

 

[Jman]

Still people on this forum claim that progesterone will not affect breast development in males. "It's detoxing estrogen, bro, keep going" xd

Not only it gave me gyno (along with a lot of people on this forum) but it also lowered my libido to almost non-existent levels and who knows whether I will ever get it back.

Also, I believe all the short-term benefits I experience from progesterone (calmness, lowered inflammation) along with side effects (peeing a lot, feeling wired up after using it for a while) come from its conversion to cortisol.

So, fun times xd

Not that I'm on the forum much but from what I've seen you seem to react catastrophically bad everything. Thyroid, vitamin D, vitamin K, various foods, progesterone.. Have you ever reacted to anything positively?

 

[Jman]

FWIW I've used progesterone in 5 - 20 mg amounts daily for for the last 5 years and no gyno. No sign of anti androgenic effects at all. I feel more androgenic using it.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Not that I'm on the forum much but from what I've seen you seem to react catastrophically bad everything. Thyroid, vitamin D, vitamin K, various foods, progesterone.. Have you ever reacted to anything positively?

I reacted positively to Thorne D3 + K2 when I used it for like 4 months or something. I think I also reacted positively to progesterone in the beginning, meaning It lowered my inflammation, but the things I mentioned were the side effects after prolonged usage. If it weren't for gyno I would definitely keep using it from time to time. Just looking at the forum it seems that a bunch of people had similar results with P.

When I used corticosteroids when I was in the hospital 4 years ago it made a big positive difference, too.

But you are right that most supplements affect me negatively.

FWIW I've used progesterone in 5 - 20 mg amounts daily for for the last 5 years and no gyno.

It does seem there are lots of people who had no problems with it but also people who did and I am talking about them. And the fact that trans people use Progesterone while transitioning is also telling.

 

[blackface]

I reacted positively to Thorne D3 + K2 when I used it for like 4 months or something. I think I also reacted positively to progesterone in the beginning, meaning It lowered my inflammation, but the things I mentioned were the side effects after prolonged usage. If it weren't for gyno I would definitely keep using it from time to time. Just looking at the forum it seems that a bunch of people had similar results with P.

When I used corticosteroids when I was in the hospital 4 years ago it made a big positive difference, too.

But you are right that most supplements affect me negatively.


It does seem there are lots of people who had no problems with it but also people who did and I am talking about them. And the fact that trans people use Progesterone while transitioning is also telling.

Not sure if Its your case. But most anti estrogenic supplements that people are promoting here lead to crashed estrogen in my case. So I can't use vitamin E, vitamin K, Vitamin D, aspirin, zinc etc. These supplements Are cousing low libido, bad mood for mě.

 

[Jman]

I reacted positively to Thorne D3 + K2 when I used it for like 4 months or something. I think I also reacted positively to progesterone in the beginning, meaning It lowered my inflammation, but the things I mentioned were the side effects after prolonged usage. If it weren't for gyno I would definitely keep using it from time to time. Just looking at the forum it seems that a bunch of people had similar results with P.

When I used corticosteroids when I was in the hospital 4 years ago it made a big positive difference, too.

But you are right that most supplements affect me negatively.


It does seem there are lots of people who had no problems with it but also people who did and I am talking about them. And the fact that trans people use Progesterone while transitioning is also telling.

Was the thorne d3 + k2 before or after the reaction to vitamin D were your face peeled etc? I'm glad that it helped you. How much progesterone were you using and for how long? I'm skeptical that it could cause actual gyno, when that is an estrogen driven problem.

Progesterone doesn't increase cortisol either. Ray described steroid production in a podcast like "there's no pushing, its all pulling, like a rope that pulls one way but you cant press on it" meaning your body asks for more cortisol and it will be produced, but having extra progesterone around in the system wont "force" anymore cortisol production than the body wants.

It isn't surprising to me that trans people would use progesterone in massive quantities to neuter themselves, its probably the safest way to do that. I also don't like that this study used a "satisfaction rating" instead of actually measuring the growth. As it said in the study the progesterone group had better mental health, and it's very reasonable to believe they were more satisfied with whatever breast development they had because of this factor alone. The breast growth could be attributed to the GAHT protocal all patients took, which would likely include estrogen and spironolactone.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Was the thorne d3 + k2 before or after the reaction to vitamin D

Yes.

How much progesterone were you using and for how long?

I used it for 3-4 months all in total. But when I had gyno I used it for over 1 month every day around 12-30mg.

I'm skeptical that it could cause actual gyno

I'm pretty assured xd

Progesterone doesn't increase cortisol either.

I know what Ray says about it. In some literature, they would say that it is either a precursor to cortisol or they simultaneously rise together. So when P rises, Cortisol rises too, and vice versa. I don't really know the biochemistry, but I do know that I had all the symptoms of higher cortisol when I took it over some period of time.

 

[learnedhelpless]

Yes.

I used it for 3-4 months all in total. But when I had gyno I used it for over 1 month every day around 12-30mg.

I'm pretty assured xd

I know what Ray says about it. In some literature, they would say that it is either a precursor to cortisol or they simultaneously rise together. So when P rises, Cortisol rises too, and vice versa. I don't really know the biochemistry, but I do know that I had all the symptoms of higher cortisol when I took it over some period of time.

It is because progesterone and cortisol, dhea are adrenal hormones, and they are all stimulated by AcTH. But DHEA and progesterone create negative feedback loops, and reduce the cortisol synthesis. Not to discredit your experience though.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Still people on this forum claim that progesterone will not affect breast development in males. "It's detoxing estrogen, bro, keep going" xd

Not only it gave me gyno (along with a lot of people on this forum) but it also lowered my libido to almost non-existent levels and who knows whether I will ever get it back.

Also, I believe all the short-term benefits I experience from progesterone (calmness, lowered inflammation) along with side effects (peeing a lot, feeling wired up after using it for a while) come from its conversion to cortisol.

So, fun times xd

Same here man, never touching that ***t again

 

[DanDare]

This is a 2 month old study, so it is not available on Sci Hub, but given that the doses of progesterone, for gender - reassignment, are 100–400 mg/day, this shows that when progesterone is used in super-physoligical doses that are 50x / 2250 % - 200x /19900% greater than the average production of progesterone for males, it barely affects testosterone production, libido and weight.

They were also on standard GA hormone therapy. So it's an outcome compounded by other factors that may be different from a male not undergoing GAHT.

Note GAHT is attempting to REDUCE testosterone and INCRESE estrogen.

So progesterone did not counter the anti androgens and estrogen at least in their blood work.

Also note that by 9 months there was no significant difference in mental health with the progesterone group / non progesterone group.