Progesterone And Female Hyperandrogenism/PCOS

fisk

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Hi, longtime lurker here.

A lot of women have asked about using progesterone to treat problems that are, if not caused by high androgens, then at least associated with high androgens. Acne, hirsutism, mp hair thinning, etc. I've seen a lot of progesterone-cream-pushing gurus suggest vaguely that it will help these issues, and I've seen people in this forum put forward their reasoning that the hyperandrogenism is a result of estrogen dominance, which progesterone could treat, or that these problems aren't even caused by androgens (which.... alright). Does anyone have evidence that it's effective though? Not evidence that these symptoms are connected to estrogen dominance, but evidence that progesterone can lower testosterone or reduce the related symptoms? I'm not sure I've even come across strong anecdotal evidence in favor of, let alone scientific studies.

The research seems to be all over the place with regards to what progesterone does and how it fits into a hyperandrogenic female hormone profile, made all the more confusing by the fact that a lot of research is done with progestins, which have androgenic effects or anti-androgenic effects depending on what kind is used. It's also difficult to tell when results are relevant to a PCOS sort of context. The question of progesterone's different effects in men and in women comes up sometimes here. I think it must also have somewhat different effects in women with endogenous hyperandrogenism, compared to women without.

So far I've found one rat study where progesterone reduced testosterone in female rats, but it didn't specify whether they were masculinzed or normal (so probably normal). I would love to be convinced that there's a better way to deal with this problem than by taking spironolactone ;-;
 

LUH 3417

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I have high testosterone (75 reference range is 2-45). I am a 28 yo female and I have a very normal menstural cycle. I’ve been taking progest E on and off for two years and still my testosterone is this high. Have you come to any insights regarding your question? I think it would help me.
 

Progesterone

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I have high testosterone (75 reference range is 2-45). I am a 28 yo female and I have a very normal menstural cycle. I’ve been taking progest E on and off for two years and still my testosterone is this high. Have you come to any insights regarding your question? I think it would help me.

how much are you using?
 

Progesterone

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5 drops in morning and 5 drops at night

Have you tried using it orally?

According to Dr Ping Zheng and his research, progesterone boosts small increases in serotonin in an area of the brain that regulates body temperature, energy, and sexual behavior. Dr. Jerome Block writes that men with low levels of progesterone have greater risk of: anxiety, low libido, hair loss, weight gain, fatigue, depression, erectile dysfunction, impotence, bone loss, muscle loss, prostatism (blockage of urine at the base of the bladder due to overgrowth of prostate cells) and even cancer.

The brain/nerve/psychological effects of progesterone are best achieved by its metabolites formed enzymatically in the liver. Thus, taking progesterone for the brain, sleep, calming, nerve protective effect is best achieved by taking it orally. Oral form dosages have to be much higher than the dosage of taking progesterone on the skin or on mucous membranes (inside the mouth, vagina, or around the anal area). Taking progesterone for erectile dysfunction can be done as a cream in much lower dosages.

https://drlindseyberkson.com/men-need-female-hormone/
 

LUH 3417

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well, yes.. spiro will def reduce testosterone...
I think I want to stick to progesterone and try different doses. I don’t understand the etiology tho if I’ve always had normal periods. The only symptom I have of pcos is sweating. Why would my testosterone be nearly double the reference range. I have taken pregnenelone sporadically throughout the year. Why would pregnenelone convert to testosterone? I also read women who don’t exercise have high testosterone so I think I will start weight lifting or try to find some form of exercise I like.
 

Progesterone

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I think I want to stick to progesterone and try different doses. I don’t understand the etiology tho if I’ve always had normal periods. The only symptom I have of pcos is sweating. Why would my testosterone be nearly double the reference range. I have taken pregnenelone sporadically throughout the year. Why would pregnenelone convert to testosterone? I also read women who don’t exercise have high testosterone so I think I will start weight lifting or try to find some form of exercise I like.

Preg is a bit iffy... I have heard ppl having strong androgenic responses to it. I'd drop it.

Prog is a safer bet, for your purposes, IMO.
 

tallglass13

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@pinacolada , Hi, I was just reading this thread. I would embrace that fact you have a good strong test level of 75. If your periods are normal, that is sign of good health. I wanted to ask , how is your hair? Some studies show women get thick hair from testosterone. Sweating may be be due to high adrenaline , but maybe not related to testosterone level.
 

LUH 3417

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@pinacolada , Hi, I was just reading this thread. I would embrace that fact you have a good strong test level of 75. If your periods are normal, that is sign of good health. I wanted to ask , how is your hair? Some studies show women get thick hair from testosterone. Sweating may be be due to high adrenaline , but maybe not related to testosterone level.
Why thank you. I never went back to that endocrinologist, she didn’t seem open to exploring alternatives. I know you can have normal periods and have pcos, so they say, but I am 28-30 days every month since I was a teenager. I have thick hair it grows very quickly. It gets curly and looks nice when it’s humid out, but it can also look very dry sometimes.
 

LUH 3417

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@pinacolada , Hi, I was just reading this thread. I would embrace that fact you have a good strong test level of 75. If your periods are normal, that is sign of good health. I wanted to ask , how is your hair? Some studies show women get thick hair from testosterone. Sweating may be be due to high adrenaline , but maybe not related to testosterone level.
My pointer and ring finger are the same length, that may just be an online mythological testosterone test , but I’m the middle child between two brothers so maybe it’s my hormonal environment inutero that attributed the elevated labs. Strangely people have always told me that I am extremely feminine looking and have very feminine mannerisms, whatever that means. My wrist is the same size as my 3 year old nephews. Why would you consider a testosterone of 75 healthy for female if the upper limit of the reference range is 45?
 

tallglass13

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Why thank you. I never went back to that endocrinologist, she didn’t seem open to exploring alternatives. I know you can have normal periods and have pcos, so they say, but I am 28-30 days every month since I was a teenager. I have thick hair it grows very quickly. It gets curly and looks nice when it’s humid out, but it can also look very dry sometimes.
awesome, Yes, Ray Peat stated that testosterone tends to make the hair grow faster and thicker. I work as a RN , and most women that have imbalances of any kind, seem to have abnormal cycles. So, I think you are just fine. Your hair is good and periods are on point. No PCOS for you, unless you have had an ultrasound showing some cysts on your ovaries. In which progesterone should help. Ray has said that progesterone helps steer the testosterone from making extra estrogens.
 

LUH 3417

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awesome, Yes, Ray Peat stated that testosterone tends to make the hair grow faster and thicker. I work as a RN , and most women that have imbalances of any kind, seem to have abnormal cycles. So, I think you are just fine. Your hair is good and periods are on point. No PCOS for you, unless you have had an ultrasound showing some cysts on your ovaries. In which progesterone should help. Ray has said that progesterone helps steer the testosterone from making extra estrogens.
The ultrasound came back clear, I have no cysts. I’m an rn too!:)
 

lvysaur

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What's your libido like? My guess is that it's not super high, but also consistent.
 

LUH 3417

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What's your libido like? My guess is that it's not super high, but also consistent.
it seems to be highest when I’m ovulating. It was pretty stable even when I was taking huge doses of cyproheptadine for a month which some people have reported tanks their libido.
 

tallglass13

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My pointer and ring finger are the same length, that may just be an online mythological testosterone test , but I’m the middle child between two brothers so maybe it’s my hormonal environment inutero that attributed the elevated labs. Strangely people have always told me that I am extremely feminine looking and have very feminine mannerisms, whatever that means. My wrist is the same size as my 3 year old nephews. Why would you consider a testosterone of 75 healthy for female if the upper limit of the reference range is 45?
Ray has mentioned many times that testosterone is very important. Even the heart needs testosterone. So, if yours is a bit elevated on a scale that the "government" makes, then I don't see how it is a problem. Just like cholesterol levels. the government has narrowed the reference ranges to fit their agenda. As long as you are not making bad estrogens, you seem to have optimal health. your ovaries are making a lot of testosterone. Testosterone will not mess with your femininity, the bad estrogens will though.
Ray has said that the estrogens stimulate the adrenal to make more of the androgens, like androstenedione, which can cause a whisker to grow on a womans chin or chest.
 

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