Progest-e Doses & Tapering

[SQu]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in with a related question: I started a good quality progesterone cream and felt fantastic till I had to stop it to let my period start. I then crashed and spent 3 days fighting bad estrogen and serotonin symptoms - successfully I'm so delighted to say :) but once over I started it again on like day 4. Supposedly I'm not peri menopausal at 50 ( doc pleased to tell me I have lots of estrogen still - hmmmm) but I think this suggests I am. I'd like to take it all month till about. Day 25/6. Especially as he so far is not giving me T3 so I'm making do with aspirin, coffee etc and progesterone is so helpful. Any reason I shouldn't do this? I'm overweight and every ' estrogen storm' I weather I feel myself get fatter. I need all the help I can get against that stuff!

 

[Blossom]

I don't have the exact quote available at the moment but I've posted it before, it's from Ray Peat's book From PMS to Menopause and he basically states that progesterone should be used in sufficient quantities to treat symptoms and it can be used uninterrupted if symptoms warrant, and if a missed period is not of concern. That is my recollection and not his direct quote! I'm at work on a hand held device so I can't link to the topic unfortunately. I'm sure you can find it by searching the forum. I use it uninterrupted myself but I'm not intact so I do not have periods. I've read other forum members doing this as well who do still menstruate. I think it is a highly individual choice and in the spirit of Peat to empower us to self experiment with this restorative substance. :2cents I found it on the previous page(his quote).

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I say GO FOR IT!!! To both of you ladies, if your instincts/body/mind is telling you that you need to try more Progest-E, then go for it. It certainly won't hurt you and may even teach you more about the way your body processes hormones. Trust yourself, pay attention to details and listen closely to your body...and then trust yourself some more.

Of course I have always liked to push things to the limit...I prefer to know EXACTLY where the limit is. :2cents

 

[aguilaroja]

(1) Please think about switching to the Progest-E complex if you can obtain it readily. (I have no financial relation to any Progest-E distributor.) I many times have seen it relieve problems that other good pedigree formulations failed to relieve.

One feature of the Progest-E is different choices for application. If extra is needed to quickly relieve symptoms, it is absorbed quickly when applied to the gums and lips, or under the tongue. Be in a time and place where you can rest, since rapidly absorbed progesterone can be sedating.

(2) I don't know the specific case but I have seen pregnenolone work as a useful addition in similar sounding situations.

(3) I have seen similar situations be relieved fairly quickly when starting Progest-E earlier in the cycle, say, day 10 (or in one case day 8) rather than through the full cycle. Think also about tuning the dose amount used presently. Even aside from lab numbers, the Progest-E seems to boost progesterone function, so switching itself may be a boost.

(3a) I believe a passage in Dr. Peat's "From PMS to Menopause" book discussed a different dosing schedule, starting with a larger amount and then tapering. You may review this comment earlier in the thread.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=3386&p=40118&hilit=pms+to+menopause#p39958

The book, which included assembled newsletters, was written a while ago and may still represent his most current general approach. I am only sharing experiences of those I know personally.

(4) If excess pounds seem particularly water-logged/soggy/bloated in character, high cortisol may be a contributing factor. Fruit, adequate protein, gelatin, and L-Theanine may be some helpful factors.

 

[Blossom]

I do think Peat would encourage self experimentation and sharing knowledge and experience. I agree that Progest-e is vastly superior to all other progesterone products but if you can't get it I think using the best product you can find is probably wise.

 

[j.]

I also think there are other good progesterone products. I use Progest-E, but I also felt good using Progeffik.

 

[SQu]

It is hard to get hold of but will bear in mind, thanks. Pregnenolone too is helping. Doc is not!! Yes it's that kind of weight but am taking all those things except theanine ( v expensive here) and cutting out starch, down on fat, no difference. Think I need more good patches , far fewer bad patches before my body will let go. That what I'm working on. Aspirin sometimes does it, charcoal, carrot, ice cream, coffee the most helpful. T3 if / when doc catches up!

 

[mas]

I can speak for myself as to my experience. I am still new here -approximately 5 months with pregenenolone, which I started in the winter because I always feel worse every winter. I no longer take any pharma drugs because when I got the "CFS" diagnosis I took 5 prescription drugs and they were all disasters. I was absolutely paranoid about even trying the pregnenolone, but it did help and I had no side effects like the drugs. At this point, I was confident to take the progesterone. I looked around at local health stores, but the ingredients turned me off.

I ordered Progest-e and Nutripak(which I need to start soon for my thyroid). I have been on Progest-e for 9 days. The first day I could feel how powerful this was and I definitely felt the sedating,calming effect and it has been wonderful. I have had so many symptoms, but one of the most debilitating for me was my heart not filling properly (strange arrythmias and beating patterns that doctors will tell you is normal because they don't do the proper echocardiogram to specifically detect the heart filling problem- Ray says this is due to hyper estrogen which causes vascular leakiness) and would make me feel like I would pass out cold. I am telling you that my heart feels almost totally normal (I may get a few palps here and there but I am moving in the right direction. My energy is better! This is miraculous! The suffering that I went through is a horror!

I will start my log soon, as I am now tracking my temps and pulse and will start the thyroid and learn how to adjust with that. I never thought I would ever be able to function again and enjoy life with my husband and family. I am coming back to the land of the living!

Best to all with your healing!

 

[SQu]

That's wonderful! Good luck with the next step.

 

[mas]

Thanks Sue and many thanks to all as we go through all this discovery to live a healthful life!

 

[juanitacarlos]

I say GO FOR IT!!! To both of you ladies, if your instincts/body/mind is telling you that you need to try more Progest-E, then go for it. It certainly won't hurt you and may even teach you more about the way your body processes hormones. Trust yourself, pay attention to details and listen closely to your body...and then trust yourself some more.

Of course I have always liked to push things to the limit...I prefer to know EXACTLY where the limit is. :2cents

Agreed. I have to agree with someone who said that the more severe your symptoms, the more doses you need. I clearly have an excess estrogen problem. I've tried several times to take Progest-E (after ovulation) and every time was not dosing high enough. Although the first time I tried it seemed to help, but now I get estrogen symptoms if I don't take a large dosage. I know this because of the murderous intent I have as I lurch closer to my period/the darkness. A few months ago I tried using the high dose protocol (3-4 drops 4-5 times a day) but still it was not enough and ended with me, about 4 days out from my period, in a fit of rage, squeezing about half a bottle of Progest-E down my throat (I'm not over-exaggerating - I drank almost half a bottle). Now that worked. Of course I was incredibly sleepy but it was probably for the best really. So my dosing regime is whatever it takes! Just don't Progest-E and drive.

 

[Blossom]

I say GO FOR IT!!! To both of you ladies, if your instincts/body/mind is telling you that you need to try more Progest-E, then go for it. It certainly won't hurt you and may even teach you more about the way your body processes hormones. Trust yourself, pay attention to details and listen closely to your body...and then trust yourself some more.

Of course I have always liked to push things to the limit...I prefer to know EXACTLY where the limit is. :2cents

Agreed. I have to agree with someone who said that the more severe your symptoms, the more doses you need. I clearly have an excess estrogen problem. I've tried several times to take Progest-E (after ovulation) and every time was not dosing high enough. Although the first time I tried it seemed to help, but now I get estrogen symptoms if I don't take a large dosage. I know this because of the murderous intent I have as I lurch closer to my period/the darkness. A few months ago I tried using the high dose protocol (3-4 drops 4-5 times a day) but still it was not enough and ended with me, about 4 days out from my period, in a fit of rage, squeezing about half a bottle of Progest-E down my throat (I'm not over-exaggerating - I drank almost half a bottle). Now that worked. Of course I was incredibly sleepy but it was probably for the best really. So my dosing regime is whatever it takes! Just don't Progest-E and drive.

My philosophy when I started all this was: Go Big or Go Home(die) literally. This was a very, very personal choice and I would never dare tell any other person, woman or man how to use Progest-e. I don't mind in the least sharing my story or sharing what I know that has been written by Peat. I come from the most authoritarian background (medicine) that there is and I just hate to see people fearful of something so safe. My body was deprived of progesterone for far too many years. I would much rather walk around with an excess than take the chance of being in that horrific low progesterone state again. The best I can figure I'm about 5 months pseudopregnant and it's going wonderfully. I only had one true pregnancy so I figure this can't hurt in the least. I do feel better than ever that for sure. I'm neither advocating nor discouraging this but simply reporting one woman's experience. I'm certain it has been in the top three things that helped me save my life. It's all important and synergistic but with only one barely functioning ovary left I know I couldn't have moved into a regenerative state without it. My only regret is waiting two months after discovering Peat to order it!

 

[jyb]

Anyone know why at a certain dose progesterone can be sedative? I never experienced it but I'm curious about the mechanism.

 

[aguilaroja]

Anyone know why at a certain dose progesterone can be sedative? I never experienced it but I'm curious about the mechanism.

If the inquiry is about what sedation looks like, it can range from drowsiness to a very deep slumber that's hard to wake someone from, depending on the amount of progesterone and speed of absorption.

I don't think a full mechanism in the biochemical sense has been well described. There is writing, for instance, about GSK-3 beta pathway inhibition. Even among "neurosteroid" researchers that I have talked to, there seems limited understanding of ("bio-identical) progesterone's profound anesthetic and sedative properties at sufficient doses. I have seen these effects many times first hand.

Progesterone was named for being "pro-gestational". As Dr. Peat has pointed out, this naming stunted understanding its wider roles.

Revisiting the roles of progesterone and allopregnanolone in the nervous system: resurgence of the progesterone receptors.

Schumacher M1, Mattern C2, Ghoumari A3, Oudinet JP3, Liere P3, Labombarda F4, Sitruk-Ware R5, De Nicola AF4, Guennoun R3.
Prog Neurobiol. 2014 Feb;113:6-39. doi: 10.1016/j.pneurobio.2013.09.004. Epub 2013 Oct 27.

"The little attention devoted to the brain functions of progesterone (PR) may relate to the widely accepted assumption that non-reproductive actions of progesterone may be mainly mediated by allopregnanolone, which does not bind to PR, but acts as a potent positive modulator of γ-aminobutyric acid type A (GABA(A) receptors."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ries.shtml

 

[natedawggh]

I'm male so this may not be the case for you, but when I started I developed a high fever and aches. It was a different kind of fever... Not an awful one like the flu but I was at 101 for two days. I read that this can be the body down regulating its sensitivity to estrogen. I cut back my dose until it stopped then restarted gradually and began seeing the health benefits within two or three weeks, and about two months in now I'm really able to tell when I need it and when I don't, so that might come with time for you too. A dose stays in your body for about 24 hours, so you don't run out of it quickly.

 

[Peatit]

It is recommended that nearly EVERYONE should begin with the high dose directions for 10 days to avoid complications (as low thyroid, high estrogen situations require a high initial dose to AVOID PROGESTERONE REVERTING TO ESTROGEN.

I asked Ray about this statement:

Dear Ray,

Is it true that a woman wanting to supplement progesterone should start with a relatively high dosage of your Progest-E complex?
I'm asking because that's what one at least distributor of your product is saying and I've never read such thing from you:
"It is recommended that nearly everyone should begin with the high dose directions for 10 days to avoid complications (as low thyroid, high estrogen situations require a high initial dose to avoid progesterone reverting to estrogen)"
Source: https://www.longnaturalhealth.com/sites/default/files/ProgestEInstructions.pdf

Best regards,

Progesterone doesn’t change to estrogen, it inhibits its formation in a variety of ways. I have often suggested starting by testing a drop on the lip; people are extremely variable in their sensitivity to it.

 

[amethyst]

The Long Natural Health insert states: ( from Peat's From PMS to Menopause in bold)

The more severe your symptoms, the more doses you need.

I have been ill for a long time with lots of health problems, so I feel that for me this approach is best. Peat says slender women can use a little less dosage, so I will start 4 times daily instead of 5, then ramp down.

It is recommended that nearly EVERYONE should begin with the high dose directions for 10 days to avoid complications (as low thyroid, high estrogen situations require a high initial dose to AVOID PROGESTERONE REVERTING TO ESTROGEN.

From what I understand the ratio of estrogen to progesterone should be 1:10.

I don't understand what the mechanism is that turns progesterone and even pregnenolone into estrogen. Can anyone shed some light to this totally confusing subject.

Being that I just got my Progest-E what is considered a beginning "high" dose? I want to avoid the complications. 4 drops 4 x a day? Edit: never mind, just re-read the first post in the thread about dosage.

 

[Bruna]

My philosophy when I started all this was: Go Big or Go Home(die) literally. This was a very, very personal choice and I would never dare tell any other person, woman or man how to use Progest-e. I don't mind in the least sharing my story or sharing what I know that has been written by Peat. I come from the most authoritarian background (medicine) that there is and I just hate to see people fearful of something so safe. My body was deprived of progesterone for far too many years. I would much rather walk around with an excess than take the chance of being in that horrific low progesterone state again. The best I can figure I'm about 5 months pseudopregnant and it's going wonderfully. I only had one true pregnancy so I figure this can't hurt in the least. I do feel better than ever that for sure. I'm neither advocating nor discouraging this but simply reporting one woman's experience. I'm certain it has been in the top three things that helped me save my life. It's all important and synergistic but with only one barely functioning ovary left I know I couldn't have moved into a regenerative state without it. My only regret is waiting two months after discovering Peat to order it!

Was your pseudopregnancy with Progest E? Do you have any problems with high doses of vitamin E?

 

[Blossom]

Was your pseudopregnancy with Progest E? Do you have any problems with high doses of vitamin E?

Yes.