Progesterone + Androgens In Men

[Pointless]

Have you seen haiduts recent post about why Progesterone is androgenic? Thoughts?

That was based off of a specific study, but I don't think it's androgenic. Stryker has had a good experience with prog + dhea topically, maybe look up his post if you're looking to make progesterone more androgenic. I don't mess with steroids at all because of side effects like irritability and painful joints. Not much benefit for me, either.

 

[Smee]

Thanks! Yes we are all so different and react differently...lots of variables and definitely many opportunities for experimentation...and causes for confusion, if not careful. I have fared well with my little experimentation, so far, and think I'm still in control, mainly due to my low dosages. Don't do thyroid. Currently interested in my adipose and how it affects everything I do...really want to get rid of it...so in researching came across your comments and and Haiduts' solution "Pregnenolone/progesterone alone or together, and some androsterone should do the trick." So, tried Andro/K 1 drop each on the jewels and Stressnon/Progestine 1 on each wrist...and it feels better than anything I've done before... by far...too early obviously to see visual improvement in adiposty but have the feeling that will come. Thanks again for your reply and good luck w your experiments.

@bzmazu How did this turn out for you? Are you still experimenting with this protocol?

 

[Braveheart]

@bzmazu How did this turn out for you? Are you still experimenting with this protocol?

I think progesterone, dhea and androsterone are the ticket for me...in small amts. Have been using 2 drops Progestene, 1 drop Pansterone and one drop Androsterone once daily for a while now and feel good and look better...slowly looseing adiposity from years of pufa, meat and beer. Having said that, this week I will try only Progestene and Androsterone...not sure if the small amt of dhea in Pansterone has been helping or hindering adiposity. I think I will end up w the Progestene/Dhea/Andro stack in small doses.

 

[ScottyVP]

I found Progest-E (3mg/d), testosterone (50mg/w) and nandrolone (250mg/w) to work very well for strength gains, I'm convinced that the progesterone aided power development but in terms of muscle size it did nothing.

 

[Smee]

I found Progest-E (3mg/d), testosterone (50mg/w) and nandrolone (250mg/w) to work very well for strength gains, I'm convinced that the progesterone aided power development but in terms of muscle size it did nothing.

Would 50 mg / wk of testosterone still shut down endogenous production? Are you using cypionate or another form? Transdermal or injections? I am curious as I have been on testosterone cypionate @ 125 mg weekly via IM injections since July. I was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism due to high LH and FSH coupled with low testosterone (231 ng/dL at my lowest about 6 months ago). I am not confident in this doctor and am beginning to doubt the diagnosis, though I do not know enough to come to (and do not have the labs to support) any other conclusion at this point.

I recently had my progesterone tested and it was low [<0.1 ng/mL, range: 0.0 - 0.5]. My HRT doctor prescribed progesterone @25 mg / day taken at night (sublingual troches). I have read quite a bit about progesterone being problematic for men, especially in high doses, so I have not been using the progesterone. I am considering trying haidut's progestene, but do not know where to start with dosage.

Nandrolone is same as Deca, is that right?

 

[Smee]

I think progesterone, dhea and androsterone are the ticket for me...in small amts. Have been using 2 drops Progestene, 1 drop Pansterone and one drop Androsterone once daily for a while now and feel good and look better...slowly looseing adiposity from years of pufa, meat and beer. Having said that, this week I will try only Progestene and Androsterone...not sure if the small amt of dhea in Pansterone has been helping or hindering adiposity. I think I will end up w the Progestene/Dhea/Andro stack in small doses.

I also have been a longtime adherent of the pufa + meat + beer diet. Good times. 6 months ago, before beginning TRT, I was 270 lbs (6-0"). I am now down to 240 and feel quite a bit better, but my weight loss began to stall about 2 mo ago. Still trying to figure out why as not much else had changed. I believe my metabolism / thyroid has down regulated due to eating low-ish carb paleo type diet. I switched to a more peat style diet about one month ago now. Temps are up and calorie intake is up considerably, though weight has remained steady and has recently starting budging in the right direction. As long as I keep my kcal below 3000, it seems that I am able to lose about 1 lb / wk (maybe slightly less).

 

[Braveheart]

I also have been a longtime adherent of the pufa + meat + beer diet. Good times. 6 months ago, before beginning TRT, I was 270 lbs (6-0"). I am now down to 240 and feel quite a bit better, but my weight loss began to stall about 2 mo ago. Still trying to figure out why as not much else had changed. I believe my metabolism / thyroid has down regulated due to eating low-ish carb paleo type diet. I switched to a more peat style diet about one month ago now. Temps are up and calorie intake is up considerably, though weight has remained steady and has recently starting budging in the right direction. As long as I keep my kcal below 3000, it seems that I am able to lose about 1 lb / wk (maybe slightly less).

You are doing good...it takes time and patience...you can bring the T up naturally too...I have gone from 220 to 170 following most Peat recommendations and swear by my latest regimen. Can't get much lab work here but want to find out where I'm at w my T. I was doing low fat averaging 1700 cals but it wasn't a happy time...up to 2100 cal now w more fat and actually body looks better and weight has not gone up.

 

[ScottyVP]

Would 50 mg / wk of testosterone still shut down endogenous production? Are you using cypionate or another form? Transdermal or injections? I am curious as I have been on testosterone cypionate @ 125 mg weekly via IM injections since July. I was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism due to high LH and FSH coupled with low testosterone (231 ng/dL at my lowest about 6 months ago). I am not confident in this doctor and am beginning to doubt the diagnosis, though I do not know enough to come to (and do not have the labs to support) any other conclusion at this point.

I recently had my progesterone tested and it was low [<0.1 ng/mL, range: 0.0 - 0.5]. My HRT doctor prescribed progesterone @25 mg / day taken at night (sublingual troches). I have read quite a bit about progesterone being problematic for men, especially in high doses, so I have not been using the progesterone. I am considering trying haidut's progestene, but do not know where to start with dosage.

Nandrolone is same as Deca, is that right?

50mg (mixed ester blend) is enough to reduce endogenous testosterone IMO but with nandrolone/deca in there I would be shut down pretty quickly anyway. The test was really there to supply the oestrogen, DHT and the like. Deca is a bit of a life saver for me due to keeping my various injuries at bay.

Now in regards the TRT, I'm sort of in agreement with it but I take larger amounts of steroids like masteron and trenbolone on cycles and the then cruise on TRT doses for a break. If I wasn't cycling Anabolics I would avoid TRT if at all possible as exogenous test is never as good as endogenous until the doses exceed nature. Not wishing to get on my high horse you understand, I'm just of the 'in for a penny, in for a pound' mentally.

I've found progesterone extremely helpful when on both high and low doses of steroids and has allowed me to skip anti oestrogens entirely

 

[A.R]

50mg (mixed ester blend) is enough to reduce endogenous testosterone IMO but with nandrolone/deca in there I would be shut down pretty quickly anyway. The test was really there to supply the oestrogen, DHT and the like. Deca is a bit of a life saver for me due to keeping my various injuries at bay.

Now in regards the TRT, I'm sort of in agreement with it but I take larger amounts of steroids like masteron and trenbolone on cycles and the then cruise on TRT doses for a break. If I wasn't cycling Anabolics I would avoid TRT if at all possible as exogenous test is never as good as endogenous until the doses exceed nature. Not wishing to get on my high horse you understand, I'm just of the 'in for a penny, in for a pound' mentally.

I've found progesterone extremely helpful when on both high and low doses of steroids and has allowed me to skip anti oestrogens entirely

If you don't mind, what would you say is your approximate body fat level?

 

[Smee]

You are doing good...it takes time and patience...you can bring the T up naturally too...I have gone from 220 to 170 following most Peat recommendations and swear by my latest regimen. Can't get much lab work here but want to find out where I'm at w my T. I was doing low fat averaging 1700 cals but it wasn't a happy time...up to 2100 cal now w more fat and actually body looks better and weight has not gone up.

Time, I have plenty. Patience, not so much :) At this point I am

50mg (mixed ester blend) is enough to reduce endogenous testosterone IMO but with nandrolone/deca in there I would be shut down pretty quickly anyway. The test was really there to supply the oestrogen, DHT and the like. Deca is a bit of a life saver for me due to keeping my various injuries at bay.

Now in regards the TRT, I'm sort of in agreement with it but I take larger amounts of steroids like masteron and trenbolone on cycles and the then cruise on TRT doses for a break. If I wasn't cycling Anabolics I would avoid TRT if at all possible as exogenous test is never as good as endogenous until the doses exceed nature. Not wishing to get on my high horse you understand, I'm just of the 'in for a penny, in for a pound' mentally.

I've found progesterone extremely helpful when on both high and low doses of steroids and has allowed me to skip anti oestrogens entirely

RE: deca, I've considered it to help with my shoulder. Don't know enough about it yet.

I was very hesitant to begin TRT since I had primary hypogonadism, there was no way to increase T naturally (as far as I know), and living with testosterone in lower 200's was hell. I'd rather play on the freeway. That said, I do have some doubt about the primary diagnosis, honestly. I used (abused, really) opiates for a very long time, which is a well known cause of secondary hypogonadism due to opiates suppression of pituitary, and I have never had any major trauma to testes. I have been considering going off T to see if I am indeed primary, but not sure I have the balls to do it (no pun intended).

RE: progesterone, my interest is piqued. I am currently on anastrozole (.75 mg / wk) and I would love to stop taking it, but am worried about exacerbating existing gyno. I think I am going to try Progestene instead of the high dose troches my dr prescribed me.

 

[Smee]

You are doing good...it takes time and patience...you can bring the T up naturally too...I have gone from 220 to 170 following most Peat recommendations and swear by my latest regimen. Can't get much lab work here but want to find out where I'm at w my T. I was doing low fat averaging 1700 cals but it wasn't a happy time...up to 2100 cal now w more fat and actually body looks better and weight has not gone up.

Better, yes. Good, not so sure. I am making some progress and trying my best to be patient. I know this stuff takes time. Any advice for how to lose weight while following Peat recommendations? Just reduce fat intake while keeping protein and carbohydrate up? I am currently getting about 3000 kcal / day (which I think is probably about right for 6-0" 240 lbs, maybe even a bit low, but my lean body mass is probably closer to 200), 50% carbs, 25% protein and 25% fat.

 

[Braveheart]

Better, yes. Good, not so sure. I am making some progress and trying my best to be patient. I know this stuff takes time. Any advice for how to lose weight while following Peat recommendations? Just reduce fat intake while keeping protein and carbohydrate up? I am currently getting about 3000 kcal / day (which I think is probably about right for 6-0" 240 lbs, maybe even a bit low, but my lean body mass is probably closer to 200), 50% carbs, 25% protein and 25% fat.

The weightloss thing should not be stressful...lots of info on the forum...you have to put something together that suits you, something you can live with...tracking helps me a lot...my ratios very similar to yours above...think progesterone/dhea is helping me.

 

[ScottyVP]

If you don't mind, what would you say is your approximate body fat level?

Generally around 13% but it varies depending on the sports I'm doing (ie I always drop a few kg doing long distance backpacking)

Time, I have plenty. Patience, not so much :) At this point I am


RE: deca, I've considered it to help with my shoulder. Don't know enough about it yet.

I was very hesitant to begin TRT since I had primary hypogonadism, there was no way to increase T naturally (as far as I know), and living with testosterone in lower 200's was hell. I'd rather play on the freeway. That said, I do have some doubt about the primary diagnosis, honestly. I used (abused, really) opiates for a very long time, which is a well known cause of secondary hypogonadism due to opiates suppression of pituitary, and I have never had any major trauma to testes. I have been considering going off T to see if I am indeed primary, but not sure I have the balls to do it (no pun intended).

RE: progesterone, my interest is piqued. I am currently on anastrozole (.75 mg / wk) and I would love to stop taking it, but am worried about exacerbating existing gyno. I think I am going to try Progestene instead of the high dose troches my dr prescribed me.

Deca is trickier than other steroids in that it has greater proclivity towards sexual disfunction, if you can handle it it's a great muscle and joint builder.

Being low in androgen is a miserable place to be, I'd certainly be on at least testosterone if I were you.

 

[Dhair]

Generally around 13% but it varies depending on the sports I'm doing (ie I always drop a few kg doing long distance backpacking)



Deca is trickier than other steroids in that it has greater proclivity towards sexual disfunction, if you can handle it it's a great muscle and joint builder.

Being low in androgen is a miserable place to be, I'd certainly be on at least testosterone if I were you.

So only 3mg of progesterone daily is enough to control estrogen no matter what kind of AAS you're on? That's pretty incredible.

 

[ScottyVP]

So only 3mg of progesterone daily is enough to control estrogen no matter what kind of AAS you're on? That's pretty incredible.

For me on 250mg/w testosterone and a similar amount of trenbolone or nandrolone 3mg Progest-E is plenty (it often feels better to skip the progesterone for a few days once in a while). For other people? I'm sure there will be a fair bit of personal variation but I feel like a low dose somehow steers the other hormones in the right direction rather than trying to obliterate a particular hormone such as the way letrozole does.

 

[smith]

Has anyone tried Progesterone + anti-androgens + anti-estrogens?

 

[vulture]

Would 50 mg / wk of testosterone still shut down endogenous production? Are you using cypionate or another form? Transdermal or injections? I am curious as I have been on testosterone cypionate @ 125 mg weekly via IM injections since July. I was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism due to high LH and FSH coupled with low testosterone (231 ng/dL at my lowest about 6 months ago). I am not confident in this doctor and am beginning to doubt the diagnosis, though I do not know enough to come to (and do not have the labs to support) any other conclusion at this point.

I recently had my progesterone tested and it was low [<0.1 ng/mL, range: 0.0 - 0.5]. My HRT doctor prescribed progesterone @25 mg / day taken at night (sublingual troches). I have read quite a bit about progesterone being problematic for men, especially in high doses, so I have not been using the progesterone. I am considering trying haidut's progestene, but do not know where to start with dosage.

Nandrolone is same as Deca, is that right?

High LH and high FSH along with low T means testicles are not meeting production demand, so called "primary hypogonadism". Other than that, no idea how to proceed on this, seems harder than secondary