Pregnenolone vs Progesterone for under developed cognitive function

[Sila]

You must have been severely androgen-deficient all the way too.
I would strongly recommend virilizing yourself ASAP with high androgens doses, it's still time for the changes to be permanent.

I would agree but I had a full beard, wide frame, deep voice and chest hair when I was 15. And my face is masculine looking.

I do however think these are result of high dht spikes due to high estrogen and adrenaline issues during puberty.

 

[TheBeard]

which androgens? like progesterone + dhea? or progesterone + keto dht?

Testosterone and DHEA.
Progesterone is not an androgen.

 

[Hans]

@Hans protein and thyroid is good for brain develompent in "old" age ?

Yes, they are always needed.

 

[mrchibbs]

Testosterone and DHEA.
Progesterone is not an androgen.

No but it is an androgen precursor. It might be good to include it as part of any androgenic "combo'

 

[TheBeard]

No but it is an androgen precursor. It might be good to include it as part of any androgenic "combo'

Not for the reasons you think about: it will never convert to significant androgen levels, even in high amounts (even at 100mg/day it doesn't make a difference in total or free testosterone).

It only makes high dose androgens more tolerable.

 

[mrchibbs]

Not for the reasons you think about: it will never convert to significant androgen levels, even in high amounts (even at 100mg/day it doesn't make a difference in total or free testosterone).

It only makes high dose androgens more tolerable.

I disagree, there's research going back to the 30s, 40s and 50s indicating that it promotes gonadal production of androgen and there was a 1939 paper that showed it could even maintain masculine characteristics (prostate, sexual function) in rats who have been castrated.

It can have an androgenic effect in the right circumstances, maybe that's the effect you describe as ''increasing tolerability''. In my experience (combining prog+DHT or DHEA) and from my understanding, it potentiates the effects and makes them more coherent.

 

[Michael Mohn]

I disagree, there's research going back to the 30s, 40s and 50s indicating that it promotes gonadal production of androgen and there was a 1939 paper that showed it could even maintain masculine characteristics (prostate, sexual function) in rats who have been castrated.

It can have an androgenic effect in the right circumstances, maybe that's the effect you describe as ''increasing tolerability''. In my experience (combining prog+DHT or DHEA) and from my understanding, it potentiates the effects and makes them more coherent.

Progesterone opposes estrogen and aromatase, opposing testosterone. Progesterone can convert to allopregnenolone, which can convert to DHT. I would like to see how Progesterone can convert directly to testosterone.

 

[mrchibbs]

Progesterone opposes estrogen and aromatase, opposing testosterone. Progesterone can convert to allopregnenolone, which can convert to DHT. I would like to see how Progesterone can convert directly to testosterone.

Since when does opposing aromatase imply opposition of testosterone?

Progesterone is upstream from testosterone, and therefore can always be converted downstream into testosterone.

“Progesterone influences spermiogenesis, sperm/capacitation/acrosome reaction and testosterone biosynthesis and the Leydig cells.” - Oettel & Mukhopadhyay (2004)​

“Studies from this laboratory, and others, have indicated that testicular extracts are capable of oxidizing progesterone to testosterone and acetic acid.” - Lynn & Brown (1957)​

“In this report it is demonstrated that rat testis can remove the sidechain from progesterone in vitro and form testosterone and [androstenedione]” - Slaunwhite & Samuels (1956)​

“In view of these recent findings, it appears that the pathway, progesterone → 17?-hydroxyprogesterone → 4-androstene-3,17-dione → testosterone, is an important route in the biosynthesis of androgens of testicular origins.” - Savard et al. (1956)​

 

[Michael Mohn]

Since when does opposing aromatase imply opposition of testosterone?

Progesterone is upstream from testosterone, and therefore can always be converted downstream into testosterone.

“Progesterone influences spermiogenesis, sperm/capacitation/acrosome reaction and testosterone biosynthesis and the Leydig cells.” - Oettel & Mukhopadhyay (2004)​

“Studies from this laboratory, and others, have indicated that testicular extracts are capable of oxidizing progesterone to testosterone and acetic acid.” - Lynn & Brown (1957)​

“In this report it is demonstrated that rat testis can remove the sidechain from progesterone in vitro and form testosterone and [androstenedione]” - Slaunwhite & Samuels (1956)​

“In view of these recent findings, it appears that the pathway, progesterone → 17?-hydroxyprogesterone → 4-androstene-3,17-dione → testosterone, is an important route in the biosynthesis of androgens of testicular origins.” - Savard et al. (19​

I wanted to say estrogen & aromatase oppose testosterone and progesterone opposes estrogen & aromatase therefore progesterone is pro androgenic.

Interesting studies, I will look into them. I'm still doubtful about direct conversion from progesterone into testosterone in men especially when progesterone has a noticeable libido lowering effect for me when applied to the testicles.

 

[BrianF]

I think Thyroid might be the best bet for improving cognition. I think Peat himself mentioned that prenatal tbyroid function has a direct effect on IQ and im sure ive seen studies, perhaps Haidut, has posted studies indicating thyroid links to IQ.

 

[mrchibbs]

I wanted to say estrogen & aromatase oppose testosterone and progesterone opposes estrogen & aromatase therefore progesterone is pro androgenic.

Interesting studies, I will look into them. I'm still doubtful about direct conversion from progesterone into testosterone in men especially when progesterone has a noticeable libido lowering effect for me when applied to the testicles.

It's context dependent. Many men have reported dramatic increases in libido with progesterone. It has a sedative quality and anti estrogenic/cortisol effect so if your libido is propped up by any of these stress hormones, it will take a hit after progesterone supplementation, but will surely rebound much stronger.

 

[Vajra]

pregnenolone is no longer safe

Care to elaborate?

 

[gaze]

do you think eggs are still safe these days. apparently many vaccines are mixed or grown in eggs? it seems like this is responsible for egg intolerance in many? i havent gotten a vaccine in 10 years or more, and i can tolerate any food, even eggs/egg yolks but as soon as its multiple eggs or egg whites i get symptoms like constipation, upset stomach, fatigue, even irritation on the face.

this would be an interesting question for Ray. that's always been my best guess for my own egg intolerance, however there could be 100different factors

 

[BearWithMe]

Lot of great info in this thread.

Have nothing to add but this:

Don't give up. My mother was homeless during pregnancy and she literally ate just a piece of bread a day for quite a some time.

When I was born, my diet was not much better. Until my 18. birthday, I was eating just grains and PUFA.

I was able to reverse crazy amount of damage, both physical and cognitive, by consistently applying RP principles. And I was almost 30 when I started!

No matter what conventional medicine will tell you, everything is possible. I believe you can even regrow lost limb when the conditions are right.

You just need to do the right things and be very persistent with it.

 

[Dr. B]

Lot of great info in this thread.

Have nothing to add but this:

Don't give up. My mother was homeless during pregnancy and she literally ate just a piece of bread a day for quite a some time.

When I was born, my diet was not much better. Until my 18. birthday, I was eating just grains and PUFA.

I was able to reverse crazy amount of damage, both physical and cognitive, by consistently applying RP principles. And I was almost 30 when I started!

No matter what conventional medicine will tell you, everything is possible. I believe you can even regrow lost limb when the conditions are right.

You just need to do the right things and be very persistent with it.

what changes did you notice, what did you reverse. did you gain height or something

 

[golder]

what changes did you notice, what did you reverse. did you gain height or something

Gaining height after 30 years old? Why is this the first thing you thought of when he said he managed to improve his health. How strange.

 

[Dr. B]

Gaining height after 30 years old? Why is this the first thing you thought of when he said he managed to improve his health. How strange.

? Ray said he has gained height in his 40s or something.
the person mentioned reversing physical damage

 

[BearWithMe]

Gaining height after 30 years old? Why is this the first thing you thought of when he said he managed to improve his health. How strange.

Just have written a long a** post about the changes in apperance I have experienced when I was 30, but then I have realized nobody would believe me anyways so I have deleted it before posting.

But I will say this. Peating probably won't help you if your problem is poor genes. But if you have decent genes, and some unfortunate event during your puberty or childhood made you not grow to your full genetic potential, Peating can do absolute wonders for you. In that case, I believe you can grow to your fullest potential, no matter your age.

 

[Peroxphos]

Just have written a long a** post about the changes in apperance I have experienced when I was 30, but then I have realized nobody would believe me anyways so I have deleted it before posting.

You should definitely post it! If there's one place on the internet where people could believe you and even understand the mecanisms, it's here

 

[mrchibbs]

? Ray said he has gained height in his 40s or something.
the person mentioned reversing physical damage

It's pretty clear that taking DHEA and other youth hormones can do some incredible things, years after puberty.