Pregnenolone vs Progesterone for under developed cognitive function

[Dr. B]

No he refers to any stress, including EMFs, darkness, toxins and mental stress itself. They all trigger the same stress response. Learned helplessness, an acute manifestation of mental stress is the most powerful stressor in existence and is strong enough to kill people.

I can assure you it will eventually cause big physical symptoms, you may not have realized it but it any type of chronic anxiety/depression has already had profound deleterious effects on your body. It's a big two way street where the problem feeds back onto itself.

And I'm sure many others on this forum can attest to it as well. The book Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers explores this relationship between what has been categorized as purely ''mental stress'' and the very physiological impacts that accompany it.

the chronic anxiety was caused by foods/supplements/lifestyle. these things are always caused by a physical stressor. it could go back to something while in the womb, toxic diet of the mother while in the womb, etc. the depression was simply caused by dislike of physical appearance, money issues.

so mental stress can physically kill you? how would that work, by what mechanism?
there doesnt seem to be any way that something like EMFs, radiation, poisons, iron, pufa, etc can cause the same response as just feeling bad or feeling anxious. in fact if you are feeling anxious or depressed in the first place, the cause is biological/physiological in itself. it's just a co occurring symptom of physical stresses. Most of Peats articles seem to focus on the physical. vaccines, radiation, xrays, pharma medicines, iron, pufa, carrageenan, other forms of toxic environment/diet/lifestyle. once you implement the proper physical changes/properly heal, the anxiety/depression should lessen on its own. on the other hand, if you have a toxic physical environment/diet/radiation/xrays etc, lessening your anxiety/depression will do almost nothing to fix the problem.
mental stress often occurs alongside physical symptoms but it doesn't mean the mental stress is what caused it. have there been examples of people who are actually free of radiation, vaccines, xrays and are doing everything the Peat way, but still dying off or getting symptoms from stress or anxiety or depression?

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

do you think eggs are still safe these days. apparently many vaccines are mixed or grown in eggs? it seems like this is responsible for egg intolerance in many? i havent gotten a vaccine in 10 years or more, and i can tolerate any food, even eggs/egg yolks but as soon as its multiple eggs or egg whites i get symptoms like constipation, upset stomach, fatigue, even irritation on the face.


pregnenolone is no longer safe from what ive seen and Ray has stopped using it since the 80s. progesterone seems much better and safer, what about progesterone and dhea like in the cortinon product

Where did you read that preg is unsafe? I haven't heard Ray say anything about it on Danny Roddy podcast...

 

[Dr. B]

Where did you read that preg is unsafe? I haven't heard Ray say anything about it on Danny Roddy podcast...

he's said it in Danny's podcast as well as via email...
i cant remember which of his podcasts but it was probably one in 2021
Haidut and Ray discussed it and Ray said he hasnt used it since the 70s or 80s when Symntex was making it. Haidut asked him and Ray agreed its possible bacteria in the air could turn it to estrogen.
But I've asked Ray a few times he said every pregnenolone he's tried after symntex caused issues for him and he stopped recommending it. he thinks its contaminants. im not sure what it is but the effect I had from using pure encapsulations and life extensions pregnenolone, was as if I was supplementing pure prednisone/cortisol...

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

he's said it in Danny's podcast as well as via email...
i cant remember which of his podcasts but it was probably one in 2021
Haidut and Ray discussed it and Ray said he hasnt used it since the 70s or 80s when Symntex was making it. Haidut asked him and Ray agreed its possible bacteria in the air could turn it to estrogen.
But I've asked Ray a few times he said every pregnenolone he's tried after symntex caused issues for him and he stopped recommending it. he thinks its contaminants. im not sure what it is but the effect I had from using pure encapsulations and life extensions pregnenolone, was as if I was supplementing pure prednisone/cortisol...

Hmm I use Life Extension's pregnenolone and haven't noticed that effect it almost alleviates a migraine that I had...I will review his podcasts and see what he said I heard him say that he knows people that used it as high as 1 gram. But, again I need to double check

 

[Dr. B]

Hmm I use Life Extension's pregnenolone and haven't noticed that effect it almost alleviates a migraine that I had...I will review his podcasts and see what he said I heard him say that he knows people that used it as high as 1 gram. But, again I need to double check

how long have you been using their pregnenolone? what dosage per day? you didn't get any symptoms like weight gain, hair loss, testicle shrinkage, loss of semen volume from it?

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

how long have you been using their pregnenolone? what dosage per day? you didn't get any symptoms like weight gain, hair loss, testicle shrinkage, loss of semen volume from it?

I have been following Ray's protocol that I thought I heard which was like 100 mg maybe 3x a week.

Not sure if I got estrogenic symptoms, no more hair loss than usual but a remarkable decrease in my migraine that I had. I also started tongkat ali so not sure what is doing what.

 

[PeskyPeater]

This is interesting, OP are you sure you want to biohack your brain, once you do there is no going back. muhahah

What I did to biohack my brain had profound effects on the structure of dopamine and related choline complex to such an extent that it improved visual processing that I now can see more detail and see better in low light conditions.

[edit] add study: click here

This study demonstrates how a noninvasive technique such as 31P-MRS can be employed to understand enzymatic regulation of phospholipid metabolism in vivo. Uridine was recently shown to be an effective antidepressant in rat models of depression, and patients with bipolar depression might benefit from uridine (25). Jensen et al. (38) investigated bioenergetic effects of triacetyluridine (TAU), a uridine prodrug, in patients with bipolar depression. In this six-week study, patients who responded positively to treatment (≥ 50% reduction in Montgomery-Åsberg Depression Rating Scale score) were found to have increased brain pH with respect to patients who did not respond to treatment. These authors argued that TAU ameliorated mitochondrial function in bipolar disorder by supporting oxidative rather than anaerobic respiration, resulting in increased pH in treatment responders (39). Cytidine, another pyrimidine nucleoside, is converted to uridine in the human gut (18). In a 1H-MRS study, cytidine effectively reduced glutamate/glutamine ratio in patients with bipolar depression in the anterior cingulate cortex with improvement of symptoms, suggesting supplementary action of pyrimidine nucleosides in improving glial and mitochondrial health (28). Reductions in brain glutamate, a weak organic acid, would lead to an increase in pH.

[edit] add warning

Uridine can cause liver issues and insuline resistance

Chronic Uridine Administration Induces Fatty Liver and Pre-Diabetic Conditions in Mice

 

[PeskyPeater]

Pregnenolone sulfate has effects on memory and learning. I'm not sure what the best route of administration is to increase uptake of it in the brain. -deleted- oops I didn't read the study well enough. After uptake into the brain, DHEAS but not PregS is rapidly metabolised in both the sulphated and desulphated form. -source
Pregnenolone is synthesized in the brain and then sulphated locally. I think it is not so effective using oral PREG to form PREG-S.
Anyhow DHEA is also effective for neurogenisis and increasing cognition. I sniff some milligrams of micronised DHEA every now and then.


PregS is the most widely studied neurosteroid that potentiates NMDARs (111, 112). 17-hydroxy-PREG is metabolized to DHEA by cytochrome P450 17α-hydroxylase/17,20-lyase. The sulfated form of DHEA, like the sulfated form of PREG (i.e., PregS), is also an NMDAR potentiator. Electrophysiology studies of recombinant NMDARs expressed in Xenopus oocytes have established that the effects of PregS are dependent on NMDAR subunit composition. PregS potentiates GluN2Aand GluN2B-NMDARs, whereas it negatively modulates GluN2C- and GluN2D-NMDARs (38). Long known to be critical for learning and memory, transient activation of NMDARs is required for induction of long-term potentiation (LTP) or strengthening of synaptic transmission, as well as long-term depression (LTD) or weakening of synaptic transmission (113). Activation of NMDARs is crucial for many forms of activity-dependent plasticity responsible for learning and memory in the hippocampus and other brain nuclei (114–118).

 

[PeskyPeater]

I am 23, male. My cognitive function (verbal IQ) is underdeveloped due to my mom being vegan and undereating during pregnancy.
I also under eat whilst growing up, was mainly vegetarian. Therefore, I was was wondering if taking for short term either pregnenolone or progesterone would help
restore some of my cognitive function.

I'm not sure if underdevelopment of the verbal brain function is directly caused by a vegan diet of the mother but I know that verbal fluency is influenced via acetylcholine. Increasing it's turnover will improve speech and thought organisation, like the so called Nootropic substances do. In those communities they suggest you need to supplement choline with it, logic behind that being that it's a precursor to acetylcholine and could prevents headache, but that is not advisable to do.
Im using oxiracetam daily and don't suppl choline and dont have any headaches. I do eat occasional eggs though. But I think most choline used for the brain comes via biosynthesis in the body locally.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Now I think it's best to use progesterone for brain health as this is easily taken up into the brain. progesterone can increase brain nerve growth factors, making new neurons and affecting cognition and brain structure and energy should improve.

 

[Sila]

Now I think it's best to use progesterone for brain health as this is easily taken up into the brain. progesterone can increase brain nerve growth factors, making new neurons and affecting cognition and brain structure and energy should improve.

Progesterone has helped but nothing compared to raw egg yolks, seem like I need lots of cholesterol, choline and animal protein.

 

[BearWithMe]

@PeskyPeater Great posts, thank you very much!

Have you experienced some feminizing / anti-androgenic effects when using progesterone?

 

[PeskyPeater]

@PeskyPeater Great posts, thank you very much!

Have you experienced some feminizing / anti-androgenic effects when using progesterone?

no feminizing effects. It does seem to calm down too much using it by itself and libido and mood went down, probably b/c it antagonizes sigma 1 and interferes with other androgens agonistic effects on the same system, so now use 1:1 with DHEA. btw Im using those with semax and oxiracetam and nicotine.

 

[BearWithMe]

no feminizing effects. It does seem to calm down too much using it by itself and libido and mood went down, probably b/c it antagonizes sigma 1 and interferes with other androgens agonistic effects on the same system, so now use 1:1 with DHEA. btw Im using those with semax and oxiracetam and nicotine.

Awesome, many thanks!

 

[PeskyPeater]

Progesterone has helped but nothing compared to raw egg yolks, seem like I need lots of cholesterol, choline and animal protein.

when you look at the neurology of the interaction of choline uptake and brain acetylcholine, there is a paradox, with low choline uptake in the brain the acetylcholine transmission is going to increase, not slow down. So a steady intake of choline supports the turnover of acetylcholine.

 

[PeskyPeater]

DISCUSSION

...The question arises as to which mechanism is responsible for the effect of oxiracetam and aniracetam on ACh release from the hippocampus in normal rats. The lack of effect of oxiracetam on ACh release in the presence of TTX demonstrates that it depends on propagated electrical activity of the cholinergic neurons themselves or of afferent fibers that in turn activate the hippocampal cholinergic neurons. The possibility that the increase in ACh may be mediated through an inhibition of the modulatory muscarinic autoreceptors is ruled out by the lack of affinity of the pyrrolidinone derivatives for muscarinic receptors [see ref. in Pepeu and Spignoli, 19891. No decrease in the hippocampal ACh steady-state level has been demonstrated [Spignoli and Pepeu, 19871 after the administration of oxiracetam and aniracetam under the same conditions as the present experiments, a finding demonstrating that ACh synthesis compensates for enhanced ACh release.

As already reported by Bertorelli et al. [1990] and Casamenti et al. [ 19911 in untreated animals the efflux of choline decreases markedly in the first samples and then reaches a new steady-state level. In rats treated with oxiracetam this new steady-state is significantly higher than in controls. The hypothesis that oxiracetam may increase the availability of choline for ACh synthesis, suggested by Consolo et al. [1990], based on indirect evidence, is therefore supported by the present findings indicating that the effective dose of oxiracetam in increasing the release of 4Ch from the hippocampus also increased choline levels in the effluent from the microdialysis tubing. On the other hand, an increase in phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine synthesis has been reported in aging rats treated repeatedly with oxiracetam [Trovarelli et al., 19861. However, aniracetam enhances ACh release from the hippocampus as effectively as oxiracetam. Yet, the decrease in choline efflux after aniracetam treatment was not different from that observed in control animals. Therefore, either choline concentration in the effluent is not an index of the extracellular levels of choline at the cholinergic nerve endings, or no relationship exists between choline efflux and the increase in ACh release.

Sci-Hub | Oxiracetam and aniracetam increase acetylcholine release from the rat hippocampus in vivo. Drug Development Research, 28(4), 503–509 | 10.1002/ddr.430280409

 

[PeskyPeater]

Progesterone has helped but nothing compared to raw egg yolks, seem like I need lots of cholesterol, choline and animal protein.

Oh yes the cholesterol converts to youth hormones and neurostereoids. But heating the yolk at low temp increases the bioavailability of the biotin by releasing biotin-binding protein and releasing other bound vitamin and minerals. the lipid oxidation on low temp is minimal.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Effects of caffeic acid on behavioral parameters and on the activity of acetylcholinesterase in different tissues from adult rats.

 

[PeskyPeater]

seems 25 mg of caffeine is the sweet spot, an amount found in glass of coca cola
The Effect of Caffeine and Choline Combinations on Short-term Visual and Auditory Memory