Peatist Losers [Weight Loss]

[KellyP]

So you can clearly SEE (well sorta) why you need to shut down cortisol and slay the Estrogen Beast.

Exactly. You keep talking about your vintage jeans, but I miss my mind! I used to be a walking filing cabinet with such great recall. I dreamed of going back to school for a masters or doctorate to do more research and teach after the kids get older. That is a pipe dream right now.

 

[HDD]

Time for a quote?

"While the early morning body temperature will sometimes be low in hypothyroidism, I have found many exceptions to this. In protein deficiency, sodium deficiency, in menopause with flushing symptoms, and in both phases of the manic depression cycle, and in some schizophrenics, the morning temperature is high, corresponding to very high levels of adrenalin and cortisol. Taking the temperature before and after breakfast will show a reduction of temperature, the opposite of what occurs in simple hypothyroidism, because raising the blood sugar permits the adrenalin and cortisol to fall."

"In the absence of commercial techniques that reflect thyroid physiology realistically, there is no valid alternative to diagnosis based on the known physiological indicators of hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism. The failure to treat sick people because of one or another blood test that indicates "normal thyroid function," or the destruction of patients' healthy thyroid glands because one of the tests indicates hyperthyroidism, isn't acceptable just because it's the professional standard, and is enforced by benighted state licensing boards.

Unless someone can demonstrate the scientific invalidity of the methods used to diagnose hypothyroidism up to 1945, then they constitute the best present evidence for evaluating hypothyroidism, because all of the blood tests that have been used since 1950 have been.shown to be, at best, very crude and conceptually inappropriate methods.
Thomas H. McGavack's 1951 book, The Thyroid, was representative of the earlier approach to the study of thyroid physiology. Familiarity with the different effects of abnormal thyroid function under different conditions, at different ages, and the effects of gender, were standard parts of medical education that had disappeared by the end of the century. Arthritis, irregularities of growth, wasting, obesity, a variety of abnormalities of the hair and skin, carotenemia, amenorrhea, tendency to miscarry, infertility in males and females, insomnia or somnolence, emphysema, various heart diseases, psychosis, dementia, poor memory, anxiety, cold extremities, anemia, and many other problems were known reasons to suspect hypothyroidism. If the physician didn't have a device for measuring oxygen consumption, estimated calorie intake could provide supporting evidence. The Achilles' tendon reflex was another simple objective measurement with a very strong correlation to the basal metabolic rate. Skin electrical resistance, or whole body impedance wasn't widely accepted, though it had considerable scientific validity.
A therapeutic trial was the final test of the validity of the diagnosis: If the patient's symptoms disappeared as his temperature and pulse rate and food intake were normalized, the diagnostic hypothesis was confirmed. It was common to begin therapy with one or two grains of thyroid, and to adjust the dose according to the patient's response. Whatever objective indicator was used, whether it was basal metabolic rate, or serum cholesterol. or core temperature, or reflex relaxation rate, a simple chart would graphically indicate the rate of recovery toward normal health."

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

 

[whodathunkit]

But, by the way TBP: I'm on day 2 of lots of milk and OJ and my stomach is going to pieces. How did you get enough fructose and sugar in if most of your day was solid? I might have to try that. I don't usually do well with lots of liquids so it makes sense.

Not Peatowski obviously, but IMO this is the BEST time of year to start Peat. EVERY sweet fruit in the northern hemisphere is coming into season.

Get cut up watermelon from your grocery. Quick and easy to pull out of the fridge if you get munchies. Kids might find it very easy, too.

Organic grapes are cheap at Whole Foods this time of year.

Organic berries are out there in spades.

Fresh oranges are good.

Dates are awesome and very heavy in sugar. Good fiber, too.

I just ate an organic mango that was like a Little Death. Seriously, it was that good. They're out there now. I got this one at Whole Foods but my local organic market has good ones, too. I shop both places, WF mostly for the stuff like grassfed dairy that I can't get anyplace else.

Tonight for some "hot food" I'm going to try some raisins warmed up slowly in milk. That's a riff on one of my all-time favorite breakfasts, except I would add rice to the breakfast so it was like rice pudding. YUM. I expect the milk and raisins will be good, too. I like warm food at night. Comforting.

Steam some shrimp with beer, heavily dusted with Old Bay and Lawry's Season Salt. Leave it in the fridge for a quick snack when munchies attack. Not sugar but is quick-n-dirty and tasty Peat-approved protein to grab.

Peatowski passed on to me the trick of putting gelatin in coffee with sugar. YUM. And you can add a bunch of gelatin and sugar to hot coffee without that much liquid. Three tbsp of gelatin will go into a normal sized cup of coffee quite well. Little bit of milk and et voila! A meal that doesn't cause your bladder to swell like an enraged watermelon.

And finally, lots of organic juices in the juice aisle. I like concord grape and papaya. Don't have to drink half a bottle to get a nice dose of sugar.

That help?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Exactly. You keep talking about your vintage jeans, but I miss my mind! I used to be a walking filing cabinet with such great recall. I dreamed of going back to school for a masters or doctorate to do more research and teach after the kids get older. That is a pipe dream right now.

I know, I know. I used to have a razor sharp memory, clients were amazed at my recall. And I too thought I would return and finish my education. I do miss my mind the most.....but, while I'm waiting for it to come back online I might as well fit into ma pants.

You're young, you will heal.

 

[whodathunkit]

I know, I know. I used to have a razor sharp memory, clients were amazed at my recall.

Don't even get me started. I used to run a station in a very busy bar with 20 full tables at a time and I never wrote anything down. My bartenders were like
Long time ago in a galaxy far away.

while I'm waiting for it to come back online I might as well fit into ma pants.

 

[KellyP]

I do miss my mind the most.....but, while I'm waiting for it to come back online I might as well fit into ma pants.

LOL YES!

 

[KellyP]

Not Peatowski obviously, but IMO this is the BEST time of year to start Peat. EVERY sweet fruit in the northern hemisphere is coming into season.

Get cut up watermelon from your grocery. Quick and easy to pull out of the fridge if you get munchies. Kids might find it very easy, too.

Organic grapes are cheap at Whole Foods this time of year.

Organic berries are out there in spades.

Fresh oranges are good.

Dates are awesome and very heavy in sugar. Good fiber, too.

I just ate an organic mango that was like a Little Death. Seriously, it was that good. They're out there now. I got this one at Whole Foods but my local organic market has good ones, too. I shop both places, WF mostly for the stuff like grassfed dairy that I can't get anyplace else.

Tonight for some "hot food" I'm going to try some raisins warmed up slowly in milk. That's a riff on one of my all-time favorite breakfasts, except I would add rice to the breakfast so it was like rice pudding. YUM. I expect the milk and raisins will be good, too. I like warm food at night. Comforting.

Steam some shrimp with beer, heavily dusted with Old Bay and Lawry's Season Salt. Leave it in the fridge for a quick snack when munchies attack. Not sugar but is quick-n-dirty and tasty Peat-approved protein to grab.

Peatowski passed on to me the trick of putting gelatin in coffee with sugar. YUM. And you can add a bunch of gelatin and sugar to hot coffee without that much liquid. Three tbsp of gelatin will go into a normal sized cup of coffee quite well. Little bit of milk and et voila! A meal that doesn't cause your bladder to swell like an enraged watermelon.

And finally, lots of organic juices in the juice aisle. I like concord grape and papaya. Don't have to drink half a bottle to get a nice dose of sugar.

That help?

Thanks for the examples! Yes that helps. Do you have trouble getting ENOUGH calories though? I mean, it's 5pm and Cron-OCD (thanks TBP!) says I've eaten 1062 calories (90 g protein, 158 g carbs, 10 g fat). But my BMR is at about 1800 calories. I'm confused about calorie restriction on LF because to me it seems inherently limited!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Time for a quote?

"While the early morning body temperature will sometimes be low in hypothyroidism, I have found many exceptions to this. In protein deficiency, sodium deficiency, in menopause with flushing symptoms, and in both phases of the manic depression cycle, and in some schizophrenics, the morning temperature is high, corresponding to very high levels of adrenalin and cortisol. Taking the temperature before and after breakfast will show a reduction of temperature, the opposite of what occurs in simple hypothyroidism, because raising the blood sugar permits the adrenalin and cortisol to fall."

"In the absence of commercial techniques that reflect thyroid physiology realistically, there is no valid alternative to diagnosis based on the known physiological indicators of hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism. The failure to treat sick people because of one or another blood test that indicates "normal thyroid function," or the destruction of patients' healthy thyroid glands because one of the tests indicates hyperthyroidism, isn't acceptable just because it's the professional standard, and is enforced by benighted state licensing boards.

Unless someone can demonstrate the scientific invalidity of the methods used to diagnose hypothyroidism up to 1945, then they constitute the best present evidence for evaluating hypothyroidism, because all of the blood tests that have been used since 1950 have been.shown to be, at best, very crude and conceptually inappropriate methods.
Thomas H. McGavack's 1951 book, The Thyroid, was representative of the earlier approach to the study of thyroid physiology. Familiarity with the different effects of abnormal thyroid function under different conditions, at different ages, and the effects of gender, were standard parts of medical education that had disappeared by the end of the century. Arthritis, irregularities of growth, wasting, obesity, a variety of abnormalities of the hair and skin, carotenemia, amenorrhea, tendency to miscarry, infertility in males and females, insomnia or somnolence, emphysema, various heart diseases, psychosis, dementia, poor memory, anxiety, cold extremities, anemia, and many other problems were known reasons to suspect hypothyroidism. If the physician didn't have a device for measuring oxygen consumption, estimated calorie intake could provide supporting evidence. The Achilles' tendon reflex was another simple objective measurement with a very strong correlation to the basal metabolic rate. Skin electrical resistance, or whole body impedance wasn't widely accepted, though it had considerable scientific validity.
A therapeutic trial was the final test of the validity of the diagnosis: If the patient's symptoms disappeared as his temperature and pulse rate and food intake were normalized, the diagnostic hypothesis was confirmed. It was common to begin therapy with one or two grains of thyroid, and to adjust the dose according to the patient's response. Whatever objective indicator was used, whether it was basal metabolic rate, or serum cholesterol. or core temperature, or reflex relaxation rate, a simple chart would graphically indicate the rate of recovery toward normal health."

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

That HDD, she always has the BEST quotes.....I'm bolding the ones that stand out for me personally and I'd like to add one more that isn't on the list: macroglossia, I got it bad. Never knew it was a sign of Hypo till recently.

 

[whodathunkit]

Thanks for the examples! Yes that helps. Do you have trouble getting ENOUGH calories though? I mean, it's 5pm and Cron-OCD (thanks TBP!) says I've eaten 1062 calories (90 g protein, 158 g carbs, 10 g fat). But my BMR is at about 1800 calories. I'm confused about calorie restriction on LF because to me it seems inherently limited!

That actually looks pretty good to me. Technically undereating a bit but calorie deficit is one thing we're after even if it's not the primary goal. How do you FEEL after that amount of food? Don't undereat but if you feel okay while in calorie deficit then it's probably not going to hurt you. It's when you start feeling crappy but still stress yourself by pushing the calorie deficit when the trouble starts.

I'm not really counting calories. I probably should, but I just can't be bothered right now. LOL

If'n it was me and that was my calorie count for the day and I felt a little cold, weak, or under-energized I'd go for a nice helping of raisins and a small glass of skim milk. Putting salt on the raisins can add a little bit of flavor interest. Maybe have a small glass of grape juice with some no-fat cottage cheese right before bed. You can also put salt on the cottage cheese for flavor interest. Or even grab a few shrimp and the grape juice. Or raisins and shrimp if you don't want any more liquid. Etc.

Having a refrigerator stocked with a variety of solid and liquid staples is really helpful for doing Peat. I learned that the first go-round, even though that time I was eating a lot more fat than I should have been.

 

[lvysaur]

Anecdotally, I noticed a lot of fat loss when I ramped up sugar intake, with my only non-dairy protein coming from two eggs a day, and 3 chunks of chicken breast a day.

The rest of it was milk, cheese, and fruit.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I've eaten 1062 calories (90 g protein, 158 g carbs, 10 g fat). But my BMR is at about 1800 calories.

Iffin it were me...I'd make some mango sorbet for dessert, it's zero fat and helps add calories with nutrients. Some folks use fresh ripe mangoes with simple syrup and lime juice, that certainly tastes awesome, but then you have to wait around for it to freeze.

I always keep some frozen organic mango chunks on hand (Costco carries them in big bags). Throw one cup of OJ and 230 grams of frozen mango chunks in the Vita-mix and blend until smooth, no ice necessary if you use frozen fruit......you can throw in some glycine and theanine powders for that EXTRA Chill Factor that mothers need in the evening.

Comes out a little firmer than soft serve and has LOADS of potassium and other nutrients for girls who wanna get sugar into their cells.

 

[whodathunkit]

I always keep some frozen organic mango chunks on hand (Costco carries them in big bags). Throw one cup of OJ and 230 grams of frozen mango chunks in the Vita-mix and blend until smooth, no ice necessary if you use frozen fruit......you can throw in some glycine and theanine powders for that EXTRA Chill Factor that mothers need in the evening.

That sounds pretty dang good. It's on tomorrow's menu. :)

 

[KellyP]

Iffin it were me...I'd make some mango sorbet for dessert, it's zero fat and helps add calories with nutrients. Some folks use fresh ripe mangoes with simple syrup and lime juice, that certainly tastes awesome, but then you have to wait around for it to freeze.

I always keep some frozen organic mango chunks on hand (Costco carries them in big bags). Throw one cup of OJ and 230 grams of frozen mango chunks in the Vita-mix and blend until smooth, no ice necessary if you use frozen fruit......you can throw in some glycine and theanine powders for that EXTRA Chill Factor that mothers need in the evening.

Comes out a little firmer than soft serve and has LOADS of potassium and other nutrients for girls who wanna get sugar into their cells.

EVERYTHING about this post sounds perfect. I'm googling "glycine powder" right now! And our first Costco opened up last month. I've been looking for an excuse to join, and mango sorbet might be it.

 

[whodathunkit]

@KellyP, BTW, what's NFP and Matt Stone's RTBI (did I get that right)? Just curious.

Also, forgot to say earlier that for years my fasting sugars ran between 125-145. Yuck. Then I got an iron transfusion and they shot up to 170-200 (197 the morning after the transfusion, I'll never forget the shock of that), and stayed at that level for over a year. Maybe closer to two years...can't exactly remember now.

Now they're what you see in the posts upthread.

Just sayin' to illustrate there is hope for you. :) And so you'll trust me when I say VLF is ths sh*t for blood sugar problems.

 

[KellyP]

@whodathunkit Good to hear about the blood sugar! It has been freaking me out. My dad is Type 2 and not doing well. And it was also a real turning point in an 8 year struggle that I knew was getting worse but ignored/hoped would resolve itself?

NFP = Natural Family Planning. You track temps, cervical fluids, etc. to track fertility to know which days to avoid (or NOT) for pregnancy.

Matt Stone is the author at 180 Degree Health. He coined terms like RRARF, Eat for Heat, and Eat the Food. He really likes Ray Peat and Broda Barnes. He's helped a lot of people heal their metabolism by increasing calories, and these days mostly through starch and sugar and lower fat.

But back in 2011 after my 3rd was born and I crashed, he tried to help me, but it just didn't work. He was looking into something different called RBTI (in fact, had moved to W Virginia to apprentice with the practitioner himself, Challen Waychoff) and suggested I look into it. It was extreme, but so were my problems.

RBTI = Reams Biological Theory of Ionization. Developed in the 50's, it's mostly survived in the form of soil health. You track numbers about your body (pH, urea, etc.) and then Challen just KNOWS what you need based on your numbers. It focused on healing the liver through a lemonade protocol, avoiding no foods, eating the right size meals at the right time, and heavy emphasis on micronutrients (supplements and foods).

 

[natedawggh]

[ moderator edit: posts moved from "Biggest Loser" Contestants Regained Weight. Peat Perspective ]



IMO fat (or rather, lack of fat) is the key to weight loss. There is no better way to lose weight than very low fat (VLF). And VLF is doable on Peat. Fruit, skim milk, lean meats, and cooked greens have almost no fat. I'm trying it out right now.

VLF is also the greatest thing ever for correcting liver health. It's a fabulous antidote to a fatty, clogged, underperforming liver. Anecdotally and speaking from experience, I believe poor liver function is what trips up a lot of people who are trying to go Peat but don't feel good on it, or gain weight.

Intermittent fasting is also a good weight loss strategy, and is also doable on Peat. Past week or so I've fasted a couple days for about 24 hours on watermelon, with a few glasses of juice thrown in (although I watch that because of the calorie count). Easy peasy. I believe fasting conveys other benefits in addition to calorie restriction, too.

But calories also matter. You must undereat a bit to lose weight, and there's no way to get around that. And I'm not sure it's possible to undereat without tanking your metabolism to a certain degree. However, I strongly believe if undereating is done sanely, and with an eye towards losing as little metabolic energy as possible, and also with an eye towards compensating for potential nutrient deficiencies, it's doable. IMO and IME, as a former heavy hitter (just coming off losing 85lbs and still a bit more to go), a moderate metabolic loss is a reasonable trade-off to go into the weight-losing calorie deficit. You can gain the metabolism back as long as you've managed the loss correctly while undergoing it. As with most things that become skewed beyond the normal, to get to the ideal requires compromise. My compromise with losing body fat is losing some metabolic energy due to calorie deficit in exchange for losing the lard.

IME it's also important on any weight loss journey to take breaks from the metabolic loss, as well. For every three weeks or whatever of overall calorie deficit, take a week off and eat normally. Around here, that means pure Peat. It keeps off the jones and also tells your body you're not actually starving to death. It makes you realize your weight loss is a finite intervention, not something that's going to go on interminably or forever. Understanding this can be a great psychological boost when trying to lose a lot of weight.

So I guess maybe it's not possible to do "pure Peat" and lose weight...at least if you've got more than 20lbs or so to lose, or if your liver is messed up. I certainly didn't lose any weight on "pure Peat" and might have gained some, although I was not checking the scale during my first dalliance with it. But judging by the way my clothes fit during that 6 months or so, there was no loss at all. Worth noting is that my liver was screwed when I tried Peat the first time.

But IMO tweaking Peat to be VLF is very doable and is a probably a decent weight loss strategy. I'm currently trying it out and will update when I know more based on experience.

Also IMO, the problem with the Biggest Loser contestants and the people featured on "My 600lb Life" and shows like that is that they are put on these horrible regimens with no eye towards correcting already raging nutritional deficiencies or keeping metabolism revved up or digestion functioning properly. They're just forced to lose weight by extreme calorie deficit while also losing nutrients and hormone functioning. They're killing and clogging their mitochondria at the same time with FFA. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Just my $0.02.

Absolutely not true re: calories and fasting. I eat 3-4k calories a day, and keep my blood sugar constantly elevated, and have lost 50 lbs of weight (probably more in fat, since I have also gained a significant amount of muscle). Fasting is counterintuitive to weight loss. When you starve the body it raises cortisol and other stress hormones, which destroy lean muscle and internal organs. If you fast and are young you may for a time experience fat loss (but you will also experience muscle loss) but with repeated practice you will eventually destroy your metabolism, as I once did, and will turn your body into a fat storing machine.

Low fat works very well to lose weight, but most people also inadvertently cut down protein and carbs in an effort to avoid fat. If you do this you will not lose weight. You MUST increase carbs and protein intake if doing a low fat diet, to compensate for both the increase in metabolic rate and the reduction of calories, to stave off rises in cortisol and other stress hormones. A good rule is to pay attention to how you feel: if you are uncomfortable, you're doing something wrong. A good low-fat diet should never make you ache or starve, or become irritable. I've written about my experience on my website. How To Do A Low-Fat Diet

 

[EIRE24]

Lots of herbal anti-microbials....Weed & Feed.

What would you reccomend specifically?

 

[whodathunkit]

Low fat works very well to lose weight, but most people also inadvertently cut down protein and carbs in an effort to avoid fat.

Right, Bro. But we're NOT cutting down carbs and protein. Why are you assuming we're doing it wrong? Have you bothered to read the rest of this thread?

BTW, that's a rhetorical question. It's Food For Your Thought. Please don't cull back through this thread and quote out of context everything I said that might seem to support the fact that I'm wrong-headed about everything I'm doing. I don't have time for that kind of exchange.

But thanks for the link. Looks interesting. Good for you for putting it out there in public to help people. :)

 

[whodathunkit]

RBTI = Reams Biological Theory of Ionization. Developed in the 50's, it's mostly survived in the form of soil health. You track numbers about your body (pH, urea, etc.) and then Challen just KNOWS what you need based on your numbers. It focused on healing the liver through a lemonade protocol, avoiding no foods, eating the right size meals at the right time, and heavy emphasis on micronutrients (supplements and foods).

Oh Lord. That sounds like a giant pain in the patoot. A bigger pain in the patoot than a lot of things, and over the years I've tried more than a few things that turned out to be a pain. Thanks for for 'splainin'.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

What would you reccomend specifically?

For Weeding somewhat in ascending order of Peatishness (actually I've only seen him recommend the first two):

1. raw carrots
2. pau d'arco
3. raw garlic & onions
4. high dose standardized olive leaf extract
5. 100% pure gum spirits of turpentine

For Feeding, noting that Peat does NOT think you should feed gut flora:

1. garlic
2. onions
3. artichoke hearts
4. potatoes
5. any fiber that suits you

If you have an endotoxic meltdown, as I've been known do when trying out new foods, then take some Activated Charcoal and eat ice cream.