Peatist Losers [Weight Loss]

[mayweatherking]

Women generally have a harder time losing body fat because of estrogen. Yes, progesterone is the "female" hormone but there are different kinds of estrogens. Testosterone is a fat burning hormone. If you inject men with estrogen, they get fat and grow boobs. If you inject women with testosterone, they grow beards, get hairier and deeper voices. Women have to have the ability to store fat easier to survive pregnancy. That is fats basic function in that context.

As far as VLF, from a Peat view it would only be dairy, coconut and cocoa fat one would be limiting since he doesn't care for pufa and mufa olive/avocado. It really depends on the individuals context.

since i started getting better with peating, im not going to lie, i have been looking twice at more "thicker" women as of late. my libido is no where near where it should be.. but i'm not going to lie, i have noticed more... i think evolutionarily a thicker girl is better as you said.

regarding the fat and estrogen... i feel that pain. my nipples have been bigger than normal lately... i know pro estrogen.. and ive been gaining weight like no other... i know them feels.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I imagine the true VLF Peat diet would be the general Peat diet just lower in dairy fat, lower in calories from cheese: Fruit, fruit juice, low fat/skim milk, low fat cottage cheese, cooked greens, raw carrot/bamboo daily, shellfish, cod, sole, tilapia once or twice a week, liver once every two weeks, and a thyroid supplement.

This IS what we're doing....not everyone needs to calorie restrict, some choose to take the Quick & Dirty Route. It lessens the pain. For me it's easier than dragging it out endlessly.

For what it's worth, I ADORE potatoes and have been eating them all Fall and Winter, and while I don't gain weight on them, I don't lose fat either. This is merely an experiment to see if dropping starch actually makes a difference. If not, it's back to potatoes!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

good and bad gut bacteria and the kind of starch needed to feed them

This. See, my guts love starch now where they didn't used to, but my brain maybe does not share the same affection....at least that's one of Dumbelina's Many Theories.

 

[SQu]

I hear you. I was about at my wit's end when I found this. It can work, but it can be rough going.

Thank you. I will be looking into this and all your and tbp's peatist loser stuff, may join, except I already know that approach makes me too antsy. Will see. And guess what. I had CFS for 15+ years. Very mild compared to that poor guy. But a blight nevertheless. You know. A year of monthly antibiotics got me about 50% better, overdue hypothyroid diagnosis and t3, and peating has got me almost cured , but in between the two, along the way, disastrous attempt to stop dieting, added about 60 pounds, took me backwards, estrogen, menopausal stuff. So here I am, crawling upwards, just happy I'm on the up not down, but if it could be faster than a few pounds , some better body comp, better energy, in 3 years, that would be great. Had feared no way out, though hopeful about subtle improvements so far.

 

[whodathunkit]

@thebigpeatowski, so what is the state of your elimination now? No big details necessary, but we know that says a lot about the quality of digestion. Are you still having IBS-D symptoms?

My eliminations still have a ways to go but are improving. I had IBS-D symptoms for a long time and still get them "idiopathically", in that I don't always understand what sets it off. I think I'm seeing some more improvement, though, since starting the Tyromax. So thyroid may be helping. We'll just have to see.

Also, are you doing Buteyko or the Breathslim or anything to raise CO2? Supposed to help raise metabolism.

 

[whodathunkit]

Had feared no way out, though hopeful about subtle improvements so far.

There's a way out. You've already made such great progress, given your problems! It probably won't even take you 3 years, given how much you've already accomplished. Do you still consider yourself to have CFS? Do you still get PEM to any appreciable degree?

You're already moving towards your way out. And don't forget the Monkey Method. If what you're flinging at yourself doesn't stick, find other stuff to fling.

Just gotta never, ever give up.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

@whodathunkit Hey Dooflinger, what's PEM?

Yours Truly, Dumbelina

 

[whodathunkit]

Post Exertional Malaise. Basically, intolerance to exertion or stress. It can manifest as flu symptoms, extreme and prolonged muscle soreness, etc. Sometimes it just goes on for weeks or months. When I was at my worst I would get a two month's bout of PEM from the workout I did this morning. I wouldn't be bedridden for the whole two months, but I'd be sick with the "flu" (which is crashing) for a week or so and then only barely able to do whatever was necessary to to get me through life. Walking the dog, walking up the stairs, going to work (or sometimes not), etc. After the round of squats I did this morning, I wouldn't be able to bend my legs for like two weeks. Stuff like that.

PEM is not always so severe, it can be mild depending upon the state of your mitos and the degree of exertion, but if you get it to any degree, you know it. I didn't even know it was an actual thing until I got onto the CFS discussion board. I thought it was just part of the decline. I no longer have it, although if I ever do start getting flu symptoms or whatever in response to exertion again, that will always be a signal I need to back off. I'm still careful not to get arrogant and overdo. Wary of the relapse at any time.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I think I have cured my IBS-D, but I don't know how much time has to elapse in order to boldly pronounce that I'm Truly Cured. I'm not having any gut issues, which is one of the things I was worried about trying this half gallon of milk and quart of OJ thang, but so far so good.

Next time you have an "episode" of IBS-D I want full details.

I used to bag breath when things were really bad in 2014, now I just sleep with my face under the covers and under a towel when sunbathing.

Today is Day Four for me.

WEIGHT: 133.8lbs

 

[whodathunkit]

Next time you have an "episode" of IBS-D I want full details.

I'll fling them details right atcha, GF.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

@whodathunkit Ah, I see. I had that years ago when I was at my most hypo. I went to the doc complaining as usual, told her I felt like an 80 year old woman. Every ******* joint and muscle in my body ached. I couldn't tolerate exercise at all, I literally spent a year huddled under a heating blanket crying. Doc tested me for rheumatoid arthritis which came back negative. When I told her maybe I needed better thyroid meds she said everything was "in range", so no luck.

I put a rock garden in last week, took me all day hauling literally TONS of rocks, some quite large. I was very sore (actually felt kinda good), but the tenderness only lasted two days. I didn't even need to take and aspirin. That is MAJOR progress for me.

Yeah...having your life back is pretty freakin awesome. I noticed though, I occasionally have moments of grief/anger/sadness when I think too much about the time lost and all those years spent being obese.

 

[KellyP]

@thebigpeatowski and @whodathunkit

I'm so glad to find your protocol and it's timely that you are all starting it again, and that I also have the opportunity to do it too (with summer starting and planning to keep it low-key). I've read lots of research on all sorts of health topics, including Peat's articles, but am totally lost when it comes to practical eating and supplements Peat-style.

I'm so desperate, and had some sort of diabetic episode yesterday, along with symptoms getting worse and worse over the years and a diagnosis last month in the urgent care of hyperglycemia - so I have to do *something*. Metformin gave me diabolical digestive symptoms so I had to stop.

I have a ton of questions, and would consider you angels if you don't mind putting your 2 cents in to answer them:
1) TBP: did you have to actively regulate your blood sugar while doing this? If so, how? What were symptoms you experienced of high or low blood sugar while on it? I wake up with high blood sugar (166 - 187) and it goes all over the place, but never lower. I'm afraid the OJ and sugar will spike it and I'll crash.
2) Did you schedule meals and snacks, or eat whenever?
3) How did you determine your calorie deficit? What was it? Did you count calories exactly or ball park it?
4) How much fat was the max you allowed yourself to consume?
5) You'd mentioned once it was tedious to micromanage the process. What stats did you track?
6) I tend to think that getting rid of all your fat while also avoiding a stress response was how you healed your metabolism. Is that what you think? I read through the entire thread (yes! poor me! it took forever) and you'd occasionally mention things you did to reduce the stress response. Can you list them? That's what I'm most worried about. I've wrecked my health so many times. I'm in this for fat loss too, but I have GOT to feel better, and with how bad it's gotten, I don't know that I can afford to tank my metabolism more.
7) What supplements do you take? (I mean all! I have no idea what Peat-style supplementing looks like, and I can't keep track of all the ones that get mentioned. But they seem so important...) How do you determine how much of each supplement to take?
8) How do I know if I need a thyroid supplement? I've had various tests over the years, the last one with my PCP last year where TSH was 1.51 but she didn't test anything else.
9) I've done lots of research on Thyroid supplements and have always leaned toward T3 only therapy, but never had a doctor to work with me on this. I thought I needed a prescription, but you don't seem to since you said you ordered T3. Can you share what you're using and how to order it?
10) Do you take progesterone? If so, what kind and how much?
11) I am in a constantly stressed state. I'm incredibly irritable, overwhelmed - basically like a soldier at war. But with three kids (all now at home for the summer!!!!) it's harder. They stress me OUT. I've started taking Redd's Injoy supplement, but noticed that some people over here take other supplements to deal with cortisol/stress. Do you know anything about this or have a recommendation? My instinct says that I am going to have to interrupt this cycle to get better (which will then help it stay better long term).

I know. It's so many questions. I'm so sorry. But if I do this I have to do it right. Forgive me for imposing but I'd really really appreciate the help!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I'll fling them details right atcha, GF.

I can hardly wait:p.....but I'd rather you didn't have another episode. God knows I can relate.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I know. It's so many questions. I'm so sorry. But if I do this I have to do it right. Forgive me for imposing but I'd really really appreciate the help!

Hi KellyP....well since you actually read the entire thing you certainly deserve a major . I know just exactly how you are feeling. This will not be a quick fix so please understand that it's a long term lifestyle that includes a major paradigm shift in thinking. I was a frightened, no terrified actually, guinea pig when I first started out in late 2013.

I'll answer all of your questions as best as I can because they are important and good ones, but I will have plenty of questions for you too.

Please take a deep breath and try to relax, stressing out will only make your blood sugar issues worse. Cortisol can destroy pancreatic beta cells so yes, you MUST pull out of that pattern. While you're waiting for responses please read Peat's articles on diabetes....and relax. Help is on the way.

 

[whodathunkit]

*FBG = Fasting Blood Glucose

Okay, so my stats for yesterday:

Waking temp: 98.0
FBG: 113
Weight: 167lbs

I ate fruit and sugar pretty much ad libitum, but with an eye towards not going overboard.

Things I ate included:

Orange juice
Grape juice (small amount)
Papaya juice (small amount)
Grapes
Watermelon
Skim milk
Oxtail/bone broth (fat skimmed but probably still some saturated fat, I had already made it before I decided to do this so can't waste it plus it's deeply yummy)
Coffee
Sugar (in the coffee)
Gelatin
Whole mango

Stats for today:

Waking temp: 98.6
FBG: 105
Weight: 165.8 lbs

The increase in waking temp today v. yesterday was probably due to increasing thyroid yesterday plus an estrogen dip towards dawn. I wake up to pee a lot because I have uterine fibroids that press on my bladder, and I noticed I got a little chillly last night. Doesn't usually happen. But I was noticeably warmer when I woke up near dawn and spotting tells me I probably had an estrogen dip. Sorry for TMI any guys that are reading this.

Decrease in FBG is typical for me on the first day of switching from full-fat eating to VLF. I expect FBG to go down to normal within a week due to VLF, if past experience with VLF starch is any indication. So far all glucose levels (fasting & post pran) on VLF Peat seem on a par with VLF starch. Which is to say, VLF in general seems to be GOOOD for bringing glucose down.

Such exquisite sensitivity to dietary fat probably indicates some degree of liver dysfunction still going on, or maybe I'm just clearing PUFA. All my adipose is still composed of PUFA, since it hasn't been but about 1.5 years that I've been deliberately PUFA-free. I don't have nearly as much adipose to clear as I used to, but still a bit left.

I've been tracking my temps fairly closely the last few days, using the axillary method. Temps today overall are lower than yesterday, despite the higher waking temp. As a marker of metabolism, is 98 or above acceptable?

I haven't been taking any of the thyroid dose at night (last dose in early afternoon) because I've been afraid it might keep me awake. I'm going to increase total daily dosage a little more today, with a small dose at bedtime tonight. See how that works on my temps.

The loss of a pound in a day is also typical of my experience with eating very low fat. It seems to drop off steadily and quickly with VLF starch. We'll see if that holds true for VLF Peat.

Diet is much the same today as yesterday, except with raspberries subbing for one helping of grapes. I'm trying to ingest something at least every 3 hours to keep tissues suplied with sugar, while at the same time still restricting calories. Maybe the two concepts are mutually exclusive, but I'm not convinced yet that they have to be, so I'm trying it this way.

Anybody with any comments or advice about temps, thyroid dosage, PUFA clearance, etc., is welcome to chime in.

 

[whodathunkit]

I noticed though, I occasionally have moments of grief/anger/sadness when I think too much about the time lost and all those years spent being obese.

I feel ya. I try not to, but how can we help it? If I'd only had all this information at my disposal when I was 22 instead of 52, how much different my life would have been...? I was looking for it then, but it wasn't available.

 

[whodathunkit]

While you're waiting for responses please read Peat's articles on diabetes....and relax. Help is on the way.

+1. Go, Peatowski, go! :)

@KellyP, also, please see my post above and for what I said about VLF and glucose regulation. It's contra EVERYTHING that has been drilled into us by mainstream medicine, but sugars typically go down quickly, across the board when eating high carb/VLF. My personal experience but Peat also says this, and is also well documented when using dietary approaches like "The Rice Diet". It's nothing short of a Preposterous Miracle, if you're still hooked into the mainstream narrative. But hyperglycemia is mostly about free fatty acids (FFAs). Not about carbs at all.

BTW, if you want to convert Peat's articles to Kindle format for easy reading on a device other than your computer, instructions on how to do that are here

Converting Ray Peat Articles Into Kindle Format For Easy Reading

 

[thebigpeatowski]

@thebigpeatowski and @whodathunkit

I'm so glad to find your protocol and it's timely that you are all starting it again, and that I also have the opportunity to do it too (with summer starting and planning to keep it low-key). I've read lots of research on all sorts of health topics, including Peat's articles, but am totally lost when it comes to practical eating and supplements Peat-style.

I don't like to tell people what to eat, especially because we all have different food intolerances, different states of health, different local food availability etc. But for this experiment I am literally eating what was posted up thread. Milk, OJ, eggs, carrots, seafood, liver once in a while, gelatin, honey, coffee, some fruit, some well cooked veg.

If you want to keep it REAL SIMPLE and REDUCE STRESS, literally do this:
A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions.--RP

... so desperate, and had some sort of diabetic episode yesterday, along with symptoms getting worse and worse over the years and a diagnosis last month in the urgent care of hyperglycemia - so I have to do *something*. Metformin gave me diabolical digestive symptoms so I had to stop.

I'm THRILLED to hear that you quit the Metformin. You should probably quit eating all grains if you haven't done so already, especially wheat....and I do mean NONE at all.

I have a ton of questions, and would consider you angels if you don't mind putting your 2 cents in to answer them:
1) TBP: did you have to actively regulate your blood sugar while doing this? If so, how? What were symptoms you experienced of high or low blood sugar while on it? I wake up with high blood sugar (166 - 187) and it goes all over the place, but never lower. I'm afraid the OJ and sugar will spike it and I'll crash.

No, I didn't actively regulate my blood sugar because it was totally and completely stressing me out. I chose to put the glucometer away and trust that Peat knows what he's talking about when he speaks of cortisol driven stress and pancreatic cell regeneration with SUGAR....OJ will be your best friend. It's true.

My symptoms were awful, I couldn't stay awake after eating sugar. I'd have to lay down only to wake up with a pounding heart and adrenaline rushes....yeah, you could call that a crash. Massive fatigue, no energy literally felt like nothing was getting in the cells. I had burning and tingling in my hands and feet, headaches, blurry vision, terrible sleep...I'm sure I'm forgetting something. At any rate ALL of that is gone now. I remember feeling much much better by July of 2013, so I guess it took about six months.

It's a rocky road for sure and I'm sure there is an easier way, but I couldn't tell you what that way is because I didn't know of any other path. Maybe whodathunkit can chime in here, she's FAR more pragmatic than me. I so love and appreciate that quality...I'm in dire need of a Hefty Dose of practicality.

Did you schedule meals and snacks, or eat whenever?

To shut the stress down I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, hence the weight gain. We're co-mingling issues here and will need clarification: When I came to Peat I was a giant ball of cortisol driven stress. I had to shut that down in order to begin healing. What is your dietary history? Have you been on a Low carb diet? I know you're stressed, but you'll need to address each and every cause of your stress. One cause is malnutrition. Of course job stress and unhappiness are also major contributors.

To lose the weight after gaining I did the above diet.

How did you determine your calorie deficit? What was it? Did you count calories exactly or ball park it?

I tracked every single thing that I ate using Cron-O-Meter and a kitchen scale. In other words I weighed and measured every flippin morsel of food that went in to my mouth and got on the scales every single morning to note the changes. I determined that I could lose weight if I ate less than 1500 calories and that I gained weight if I ate MORE than 1600 0r 1700 calories. It's not precise, but close enough. Those were my numbers in 2014, my numbers are very different now. I counted calories EXACTLY, no ballparking it.

*PLEASE TAKE NOTE*

This part is very much INDIVIDUAL and unique to each Loser, please don't use MY numbers. This is NOT a One Size Fits All. Your metabolism is most likely different than mine. You'll need to figure out what your own personal caloric threshold is. You may need more calories.

If you need LESS calories, then I wouldn't do this diet in a caloric restricted manner. The diet is healthy, but the question I don't have an answer for is: ARE YOU HEALTHY ENOUGH TO TRY THIS IN A CALORIE RESTRICTED STATE????
Only you can answer that question....it isn't worth doing more metabolic damage if you aren't ready. The good news is you can still heal!!! Hooray!!!

How much fat was the max you allowed yourself to consume?

In 2014 it was no more than 20 grams per day and often only 10 grams, it was very difficult. This go round I'm eating 25 grams per day, but yesterday was 26.5 as I had an extra egg. Even if you don't calorie restrict, as a "diabetic" you need to keep fat very very low and keep fructose intake high.

You'd mentioned once it was tedious to micromanage the process. What stats did you track?

In 2014 I tracked temps, pulse, mood, sleep, calories, weight and all nutrients on Cron-OCD. This round I'm adding blood pressure cuz I got me a fancy new pressure cuff. My fasting blood sugars have been anywhere from 89 to 103 (now that I calibrated the effin glucometer), so I'm not tracking those because I don't like poking myself, but I check them once in a while.

I tend to think that getting rid of all your fat while also avoiding a stress response was how you healed your metabolism. Is that what you think? I read through the entire thread (yes! poor me! it took forever) and you'd occasionally mention things you did to reduce the stress response. Can you list them? That's what I'm most worried about. I've wrecked my health so many times. I'm in this for fat loss too, but I have GOT to feel better, and with how bad it's gotten, I don't know that I can afford to tank my metabolism more.

Only YOU can answer that question, I have no idea the state of your health. My advice would be to start tracking everything while eating to satiety every moment of every day. Get an idea of how many calories you're burning in order to maintain your current weight. Don't add the extra stress of "dieting" just yet. Work on shutting down stress hormones with Peat foods. NO PUFA at all, whatsoever. If you feel that you can handle the challenge then by all means, jump in the water is fine. These foods work, you'll be well nourished.

THINGS TO HELP STOP STRESS REACTIONS:
Honey, salt, progesterone, theanine, more protein, B vitamins, vitamin E, thyroid, sunshine and when all else fails...ice cream.

What supplements do you take? (I mean all! I have no idea what Peat-style supplementing looks like, and I can't keep track of all the ones that get mentioned. But they seem so important...) How do you determine how much of each supplement to take?

You go by assessing your own symptoms and trying out stuff, experimenting. If you feel better keep that sup in your protocol, if you feel worse then drop it and perhaps try it later when you are more resilient. This is all very individual, people have totally different reactions to supplements. There's no Universal Panacea.....well, except for ice cream.

How do I know if I need a thyroid supplement? I've had various tests over the years, the last one with my PCP last year where TSH was 1.51 but she didn't test anything else.

Check your waking temp and check again an hour after you've eaten and check again in the afternoon. Check pulse too.

)I've done lots of research on Thyroid supplements and have always leaned toward T3 only therapy, but never had a doctor to work with me on this. I thought I needed a prescription, but you don't seem to since you said you ordered T3. Can you share what you're using and how to order it?

I'm currently using Cynomel, I bought it in Mexico. It's no longer available. There are two threads on the forum discussing T3, but I cannot speak on those alternatives (yet).

Do you take progesterone? If so, what kind and how much?

Hell YES...I use Progest-E...as much as it takes, which depends entirely on my symptoms. Others on the forum have been getting good results with other products, but again I have no experience with them.

I am in a constantly stressed state. I'm incredibly irritable, overwhelmed - basically like a soldier at war. But with three kids (all now at home for the summer!!!!) it's harder. They stress me OUT. I've started taking Redd's Injoy supplement, but noticed that some people over here take other supplements to deal with cortisol/stress. Do you know anything about this or have a recommendation? My instinct says that I am going to have to interrupt this cycle to get better (which will then help it stay better long term).

You could try boatloads of progesterone, honey, salt, OJ, B vitamins, magnesium and lots of milk PRONTO!!!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Oh, I just remembered something that I used to use a LOT of in 2014 and I think it was quite helpful: ORGANIC CEYLON CINNAMON.

It's delicious and helps with blood sugar and ammonia issues (so I've heard)...but I don't really know what ammonia issues are so I can't speak to that.

Here's the one that I used, but there are other brands. Just make sure it's organic and CEYLON:

Amazon.com : Frontier Ceylon Cinnamon Organic Ground Powder, 1 Pound : Cinnamon Spices And Herbs : Grocery & Gourmet Food

 

[SQu]

I didn't even know it was an actual thing

Me neither, till now. I called it crashing. A week or two, a lot of time in bed. Which didn't help but was all I could do. I thought of batteries that won't take a charge. My poor husband and little kids. Mostly there was no clear cause I could link it to. Because of course one avoids the dead certs, like doing too much ( which is nearly everything of course ...) .
The aching. I knew it was mitochondria too, but what to do? Ribose gave me false hope for a week or two.
I no longer think I have it (yay!!!) I do still have bad patches but have linked those to estrogen and (yay!!) can stop them (progesterone, gelatin, aspirin, b1, magnesium, salt, sugar of course, ice cream if severe). My main issues now are insomnia which actually got worse, much worse; chronic constipation which is unchanged; low energy still and still some 'unfixable' days, but not as bad anymore, and the weight gain.

There's a way out. You've already made such great progress, given your problems!

:) thank you!

Just gotta never, ever give up.

No point. What's the alternative??