Occasional Boron Supplementation

[sladerunner69]

I’ve been taking 3mg of boron for 4 or 5 months now. At first I noticed some hormone changes but the biggest benefit is the strengthening of all my joints. I feel so much more solid now. I think low and slow is the way to go.

Could this be due to boron's known activity in increasing estrogen? Maybe it brought that back up to "balance".

 

[sladerunner69]

Thanks for the response.

I'm not worried about it's estrogenic effects personally (in my case crashing estrogen via an AI led to many problems, so having it higher is probably a good thing for me anyway). But from what I've read, it increases the conversion of estrone (E1) to estradiol (E2), since the enzyme for that reaction has boron as a cofactor. Estrone is a weaker estrogen, so in that sense it could be "estrogenic." But estrone is the estrogen linked to the negative effects of HRT when taken orally, and the form linked with blood clotting. It's also the form thats high after menopause. I think having more E2 to E1 is a good thing, personally.

What kind of AI were you taking which led to problems?

 

[Goobz]

What kind of AI were you taking which led to problems?

Letrozole. It wasn't by any means the only factor, but it seems to be the major catalyst for a whole bunch of problems, typically associated with low estrogen / aromatase. Don't want to derail this excellent boron topic though, I think I posted about it in the "estrogen is critical" "anti Peat" thread if you're interested.

 

[charlie]

My pleasure Charlie

Makes me wonder how many people went in for "knee replacements" and all they needed was some boron......

 

[Tarmander]

Could this be due to boron's known activity in increasing estrogen? Maybe it brought that back up to "balance".

could be. I have tested low estrogen before on blood tests for whatever that's worth

 

[Nokoni]

Makes me wonder how many people went in for "knee replacements" and all they needed was some boron......

Same here. After my experience it seemed clear to me that boron was a very important nutrient. How many Tommy John surgeries, which is epidemic in baseball, could have been avoided if boron were a bigger part of the diet of youngsters? (I'm a baseball fan.) Plantar fasciitis hobbles so many (including me years ago). Could Albert Pujols, among others, have had a more dignified tail end of his career? At the grocery store I see so many elderly folks (many my age) all bent over, sometimes following their walkers. Is that just a boron deficiency? I'm inclined to believe much of it is just that.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Yeah that is pretty fascinating! I have taken it off and on, (9-12mg Boron, yet to try Borax) but mostly for the subtle libido boosts I seem to get sometimes from it.

But since I have been taking it this week, I am noticing less joint pain and inflammation in the joints I typically have issues with. I have probably received these benefits from it in the past, but just never noticed.

There is definitely a reduction in inflammation, I'm surprised I never noticed that before.

My take on the hormonal changes is that this mineral seems to allow the body to better utilize and retain nutrients important to hormone production.

I believe the article above shows an increase in both testosterone and estrogen, as well as DHT, however estrogen levels remained within reference ranges. And while another study showed that E2 dropped significantly while free testosterone rose in healthy young males.

I personally don't think every little rise in libido is a direct result of rising estrogen. Ray has stated that significantly increased estrogen levels CAN cause hypersexuality. But this isn't always static as there are millions of men out there with sky high estrogen and zero libido/sexual function. And the same can be said for men/women with near perfect lab work.

I personally feel any hormone's sexual function is secondary to the brain and reliant on a complex cascade of enzymes, receptors, neurochemicals, etc. I just don't believe it's as simple as high test, low estrogen or visa versa.

Just my opinion and there's plenty of research and anecdotal evidence to illustrate those mysteries of the body.

But yeah... Boron is a very interesting mineral that needs much more study and attention.

I agree. Im going to eat apricots until I get a supplement as @olive suggested.

 

[Inaut]

dates are also quite high in boron and selenium.

 

[Sumbody]

Dietary boron, brain function, and cognitive performance.

Has anyone noticed any brain or cognitive benefits from it?

It seems to be another one of Boron's little wonders.

Here are some other resources with plenty of information...

Growing Evidence for Human Health Benefits of Boron

Dietary Boron Supplementation and its Impact on Semen Characteristics and Physiological Status of Adult Male Rabbits - SciAlert Responsive Version
I feel like this explains some of the slight testicular changes I notice after taking Boron for several days.

Essentiality of boron for healthy bones and joints. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

We should do blood tests and post them to this thread. Serum vitamin D, estrogen, free testosterone, total testosterone and dihydrotestosterone.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Or we could each do one and save a bit of money

 

[Goobz]

Same here. After my experience it seemed clear to me that boron was a very important nutrient. How many Tommy John surgeries, which is epidemic in baseball, could have been avoided if boron were a bigger part of the diet of youngsters? (I'm a baseball fan.) Plantar fasciitis hobbles so many (including me years ago). Could Albert Pujols, among others, have had a more dignified tail end of his career? At the grocery store I see so many elderly folks (many my age) all bent over, sometimes following their walkers. Is that just a boron deficiency? I'm inclined to believe much of it is just that.

How long did it take for the boron to improve your arthritis? Were there cumulative effects over time?

 

[Goobz]

Thanks for the response.

I'm not worried about it's estrogenic effects personally (in my case crashing estrogen via an AI led to many problems, so having it higher is probably a good thing for me anyway). But from what I've read, it increases the conversion of estrone (E1) to estradiol (E2), since the enzyme for that reaction has boron as a cofactor. Estrone is a weaker estrogen, so in that sense it could be "estrogenic." But estrone is the estrogen linked to the negative effects of HRT when taken orally, and the form linked with blood clotting. It's also the form thats high after menopause. I think having more E2 to E1 is a good thing, personally.

Did some further searching on boron on this forum, and found a post with some more claims on this: apparently boron not only increases E1 to E2, but also increases E2 conversion to E3 (estriol), which is a very weak estrogen. So if the source was correct (who knows, it was a doctor giving a TED-like talk), perhaps the net effect isn't as "estrogenic" as I made out. I've also read it inhibits the breakdown of E2 by a different mechanism, so meh I'm not sure myself. Anyway just adding this for completeness.

This is a great thread, in case people have missed it:
Nothing Boring About Boron

 

[Christoph]

I've been using borax for over a year now and it's only one of two supplements I take. I am currently taking between 1/8 and 1/4 tsp of borax per day (6 days a week) from a pre-dissolved concentrated stock solution I prepare. (Prepare it in advance because it takes borax a while to properly dissolve.) Borax is a great source for boron because it's ionic and is easily absorbed, probably better than more expensive organic forms meant for supplementation.

For me, boron is a very effective anti-fungal. In fact, boron has so many different positive effects that I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are related to its anti-fungal properties. In any case, it's safe, it's effective and it's cheap. Officially, borax is about as toxic as baking soda.

 

[Nokoni]

How long did it take for the boron to improve your arthritis? Were there cumulative effects over time?

Happened pretty quick. Couple months ago now so going on memory, but it seemed like modest improvements in just a few days. But I didn't really believe it and chalked it up to wishful thinking. But the improvement just kept coming so it soon became clear that it was real and probably had been from those first few days. So after a couple weeks thought I'd try it with my teenage daughter. She has a congenital condition that leaves her back aching and makes even a shopping trip a pretty painful experience. After our next shopping trip, during which I didn't see any of the usual signs of pain, I asked her how much pain she had had. She pursed her lips, looked away, then looked back and said she hadn't even noticed any at all. One of the happiest days of my life. She can now go to the park and the local fall festival and on long walks (at least they are long for us) with no pain at all. And yes, it does seem to continue to improve. Much harder to tell now though. Once my knees and back allowed me to resume a normal life the really dramatic stuff is kind of behind me. Things aren't perfect but I can be very patient now, and we'll see how much further improvement yet lies ahead.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

What brand of boron do you use @danishispsychic if I may ask?

 

[charlie]

After our next shopping trip, during which I didn't see any of the usual signs of pain, I asked her how much pain she had had. She pursed her lips, looked away, then looked back and said she hadn't even noticed any at all. One of the happiest days of my life.

 

[Nokoni]

Exactly. Even after my own very positive experience I never expected that good of a result. A truly great day :)

 

[danishispsychic]

What brand of boron do you use @danishispsychic if I may ask?

Natures Way Boron Complex. I really like it = I open one cap and put in my am coffee. My nails are growing and joints are happy.

 

[Sativa]

Cross posting relevant Boron insights...

...here's a paper on boron-deficient soils, the effect on foods grown in them, and consequences on the local population. There seems to be a fairly clear link!
Agricultural practices affect arthritis.
Abstract
It has been suggested that boron deficiency in food may be a cause of some arthritis (Newnham 1979). Epidemiological studies were done to try to ascertain why some countries have more or less arthritis than other countries. Jamaica, Mauritius, Fiji and Israel were visited with a view to ascertaining the boron levels of locally consumed food as it was suspected that excessive use of soluble chemical fertilizers had damaged the soils of the sugar producing lands. Food grown on these soils were found to have low boron levels. By contrast the foods consumed in Israel had high boron concentrations associated with a low incidence of arthritis. South African work has shown that people who eat mostly maize have more arthritis when eating processed maize grown with fertilizer. Brief reference is made to the role of boron in human diets. There are bound to be geographical differences in dietary boron, but even in the USA levels have dropped considerably in 50 years. Arthritis is increasing, especially juvenile arthritis. The increased use of fertilizers and genetic selection of plants has led to a wide range of changes in the quality of foodstuffs and their nutrient content. The identification of the parallel loss of boron may reflect vital changes in trace elements and other nutrients.

Insights from Travis:

To clarify this area for anyone reading this comment:
An experienced and knowledgeable user on this form called Travis has given his detailed & methodical insights into Boron's biological role. According to him, it is safe in small doses, and is actually less toxic than salt - aka sodium chloride.
Boron has a beneficial effect on Calcium and Magnesium retention, and also benefits steroidogenesis, as already explained in this thread. Since it apparently increases cholesterol, this would likely have a positive impact on all downstream substances, including progesterone.
But, it is better not to make hasty assumptions. If you are in a state of imbalance, perhaps boron is best avoided, or dosed at TINY amounts, eg 1-3mg.

A good starting dose range would be 1-10mg, preferably with food.

Quote from Travis:

Boric acid, borate, fructoborate, and benzoxaboroles cannot be considered selectively estrogenic when the increase both sex steroids proportionally. These are sex-neutral compounds, likely stimulators of de novo steroid synthesis. I suppose boron can be considered 'highly estrogenic' should a person focus entirely on female studies determining only estradiol, remaining completely oblivious to the corresponding cholesterol and testosterone increases observed in both males and females. Since boron compounds don't favor one sex hormone over the other, it would be far more appropriate simply to consider them 'steroidogenic' in high doses."

Insight on Boron's estrogenic influence:

Did some further searching on boron on this forum, and found a post with some more claims on this: apparently boron not only increases E1 to E2, but also increases E2 conversion to E3 (estriol), which is a very weak estrogen. So if the source was correct (who knows, it was a doctor giving a TED-like talk), perhaps the net effect isn't as "estrogenic" as I made out. I've also read it inhibits the breakdown of E2 by a different mechanism, so meh I'm not sure myself. Anyway just adding this for completeness.

This is a great thread, in case people have missed it:
Nothing Boring About Boron