Started Great, Now Gaining Belly Fat, Have High Blood Pressure, Starting To Feel Unwell

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by Malris, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Malris

    Malris Member

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    Hi all,

    I started Peating in December of last year. I felt amazing! HUGE amounts of energy, blood pressure 120/80, fasting blood glucose as low as 70 despite eating and drinking all that sugar. Amazing stuff. I ended up waking up several times the first few nights to pee excess fluid as my edema went down. After that, it was amazing sleep every night for a long time.

    Slowly, though, my fasting blood glucose started to rise, and my blood pressure went up too. I gained about 20-25 pounds (I was already overweight), ALL of it in my belly fat, my neck is about the same size but I had to buy a new belt. After a while, I was having about as many high energy days as "normal" days. The trend kept going, too, until I finally started this post. Lately, I've had many more normal days than high energy days, and I've even had some tired days. This week, allergies have been kicking in, I've been sick, and I've had more tired days than normal days, and no high energy days at all.

    A normal day of eating for me is to drink about 4 cups of strong coffee, and 4-8 glasses of skim milk. Each cup of coffee has a tbsp. of hydrolyzed beef gelatin in it and 2 tbsp. of organic table sugar. I drink 4 cups of pre-made not from concentrate OJ. I have a canned oyster or three and some pineapple (preferably fresh, but often a 4 oz. "snack pack"). I take 2 tbsp. of beef gelatin right before bed with a tsp. of salt in it. I eat beef or chicken liver as often as I remember it, which is about once every other week. I have a "normal" dinner, a hamburger made fresh or whatever my wife makes, always with no vegetable oils. I eat some sugar candy, like skittles, and have mexican coke or other sugar sodas. We eat out or order in once or twice a week, primarily Asian foods, so some rice, some veg, usually beef, possibly cooked in oils. Occasionally we'll make a steak or other beef dish at home. I have chicken maybe once a month, though chicken liver more frequently than that. Sometimes I get SUPER HUNGRY and eat a whole bag of Jackson's Honest potato chips fried in coconut oil, or eat a bunch of candy...and sometimes I have to keep eating even after that. Occasionally, I'll have a "5 ingredients" ice cream or a small piece of 55% dark chocolate.

    I take 1500 iu D, 500mg magnesium, 1 325mg aspirin, and a zyrtec daily. I take carlson labs k2 and a Unique E once every 4 days. All the supplements are based on using cronometer.com on and off, and I've added them only to make sure that I'm hitting 100% on all the nutrients listed. My use of cronometer is spotty, I don't use it every day.

    I'm at 145/95 blood pressure, 110-115 fasting blood glucose, and I weigh 256 pounds (6'2" male,) which is about 20 pounds more than I have in over five years.

    Why is my BP going up? What happened to my fasting blood glucose? Where did my energy go?

    How do I fix this?!?
     
  2. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    I would drop that unique E. Some people are having very bad reactions to it. Its quality is highly questionable.

    When you eat foods that raise metabolism, your likely to over eat unintentionally because of increased hunger. Its important to track food ( at least initially) and after experamenting with finding your personal caloric needs, to not exceed them, or weight gain is likely.

    Many find that a true low fat diet allows them to not have to track calories, because gaining weight becomes more difficult, but when the typical amount of fat is consumed, calorie counting becomes more important until you are tuned in with how much food you know you need, without exceeding that maintenance amount.

    Im not a blood pressure expert, but every overweight person I know has above normal blood pressure. Maybe its a coincidence, maybe not.
    After I introduced my grandmother to thyroid, her typical 180/89 ( without blood pressure medication) came down to normal and stays within a healthy range, except for one night when she decided to eat several lbs of holiday ham :hairpull :shock: and it jumped up for several hours afterwards, but was normal the following morning.

    Hope that helps in some way!
    Take care!
     
  3. opiath

    opiath Member

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    Were you drinking 4 cups of coffee before you started peating?
    Someone on this forum concluded that a cup of strong coffee mobilizes up to 50 grams of sugar.
    If your liver glycogen is not optimal your coffee dosage might rise your adrenaline levels leading to higher blood pressure.
    Higher adrenaline levels would lead to increased PUFA lipolysis which might contribute to temporary insulin resistance.
    If your diet has also been low fat for a while the above would be more likely.
     
  4. OP
    Malris

    Malris Member

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    Interesting, thank you for the unique E recommendation. I added that in a bit later, so that could be the culprit. I don't yet have a doctor, so getting tests comes only once a year from a physical at work around July. I don't really want to wait that long to get a thyroid panel and a few other things, I need to go read the forums about what blood tests, they look pretty useful.

    Other things I think I've changed: I started with whole milk, changed to 1%, then dropped to nonfat. Added the Carlson K2 about a month ago. Tried to eliminate all fat except for dinner (gotta keep the wife happy, y'know..."what do you mean you won't eat dinner because it's got cheese in it?" is not something I want to deal with!) about two and a half months ago. Dinner is a bit of a wildcard, but often is low or no fat as well.

    Past history: I was low-carb high-fat for 6 years prior to Peat. I was lower weight that whole time but started creeping up a bit in the last two years to about 235. Tried 2 weeks of potatoes because of Penn Jillette's book, lost 25 pounds in 2 weeks. My gut couldn't handle the vegan diet afterwards, though, and I was gaining weight like crazy eating 2 lbs of veggies a day, right back up to 235 in a few weeks, along with horrible constipation. Found Peat, said "well, if 2 weeks of potatoes can help, Ray Peat's worth a shot..." and that pretty much gets us to the first post.

    I was not drinking 4 cups of coffee before peating. Probably about 3 cups, always have had it strong and drank it black before Peat. Now I try to drink it along side the OJ and also put 2 tbsp. of sugar in, which should have a combined sugar higher than 50 grams...
     
  5. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Good points! I was also going to suggest looking at coffee intake.

    4 cups of coffee also gives me bad sides. I started off Peating that way last year and it wasn't good. Currently, one strong cup per day with a couple tbsp of gelatin and at least a tablespoon of sugar is doing me fabulous. More is not always better. If you get your coffee really hot you can cram almost as much gelatin as you want into a single cup. (keeping in mind that about 30g of protein at a time is about all the body can make use of).

    Also, consider cutting the candy and general "added sugar" intake and instead eat more actual fruit. Too much granulated/isolated sugar doesn't do me well at all, and it seems that way for a lot of people. A good way to get fruit is to puree frozen fruit in some milk...mangos and berries are good Peaty fruits and are usually very ripe and tasty when frozen. You don't necessarily have to drink it while it's still a smoothie...just puree it and put it in the fridge. Drink it when you're hungry. Mango milk made this way is particularly yummy, IMO.

    Honey can also be a good alternative to sugar...sugar is good for energy but since it contains no nutrients at all it actually uses up vitamins and minerals when we metabolize it. This can create deficiencies over time. Eating fruit and honey instead of sugar or added sugar products (like ice cream, skittles, and coke) gives you some nutrients and minerals while still giving you the energy bang for your buck.

    Basically, in addition to possibly too much coffee, it looks like you might be eating too many nutrient-deficient foods and sugar without enough nutrient dense foods to replace what you're metabolizing. This is not criticism...I've done this myself. Just gotta fix it. :) At first Peating seems like a dream: we can have coke, potatoes in coconut oil, and ice cream! But the reality is that many of the things that have become accepted Peat wisdom are things that Peat no longer does because they're not good daily strategies for the long term. For example, I think he drinks 1% milk now, generally watches his fat intake, doesn't drink coke as liberally as he used to, and no longer eats ice cream daily. Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

    Also consider that, depending upon your current state of health, you may have to stop and start and have some setbacks for a while. It takes the body a while to recover all the processes necessary for optimal functioning, especially if we've been sub-par for a long while. But as you get healthier the setbacks will become fewer and farther between.

    Good luck! :)
     
  6. OP
    Malris

    Malris Member

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    Yeah, I've been trying to do less added sugar. We don't have a lot of fruit around the house, usually just "bad" fruits for the kids like apples and bananas. Which I eat when they are ripe. But I don't eat enough fruit, especially when I'm super hungry.

    We buy a pineapple whenever I can find a ripe one, got a really good one this week. :thumbup: I LOVE the mango milk idea, that's really nifty.
    Less coffee?!?! But...but...:coffeeAs a last resort, I'll try anything, but lemme try some more fruit & less sugar first, mmmmk? :grin
     
  7. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Har. :D

    Just saw you've been drinking almost that much pre-Peat so it's unlikely that it's at the root of your problem. Although as your metabolism changes it might be driving things like increased cortisol production. I dunno. Maybe cut back to your standard 3 cups per day? I'm still finding my way, too, although I can say for sure that too much coffee and too much added sugar are definitely roadblocks. "Too much" being a subjective term, o'course.

    Pineapples are supposed to be estrogenic. I stay away from them for the most part, just in case. Just FYI.

    But frozen cherries and peaches are also good. I haven't tried peach milk but I imagine with a little honey frozen peach milk is quite tasty. :)
     
  8. theLaw

    theLaw Member

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    I would input all of your food into the Cronometer, and post it here to give a better overview.

    My guesses based on your info so far:

    1. Low on overall calories given your height and weight.

    2. Low on salt (might need 1-2Tbsp if you are hypo) - try salt pills or make your own using gel caps

    3. Liver issues + Digestive issues + PUFA in tissues

    ***also, I would consider cutting down on the caffeine until you have a diet where you feel normal, then add it back in (it's increasing your metabolism, which is bad news if you're already underfed)***

    Your binging is a red flag that you are not getting enough calories forcing you to re-feed on a regular basis to feel normal. Also, the starch is a killer, and you might need to give it up until you clear up your liver issues. Keep in mind, there are many members on this forum who never get serious about their diet, and end up years later dealing with the same issues mentioned in #3.:cool:
     
  9. OP
    Malris

    Malris Member

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    #1 - Yeah, I'm worried about additional weight gain, ~20 lbs up is about the max I'm comfortable with, I think. So I try to stay around 2500kcals/day, though some days I've gotten as high as 3500. I generally eat until I'm just about full, where 10-20 minutes later I'm full or don't notice hunger.

    #2 - agreed, Peat says lots of positive things about salt and BP. I am currently trying an experiment where instead of adding the gelatin to the coffee, I've been putting 2 tbsp in hot water and adding a full teaspoon of salt. I also salt the oyster with 1/4 tsp or so. Today was my first day of trying this, so today I'll get at least ~1.1 tbsp of salt. I think I could do up to about 2 tbsp by making "salt tea."

    #3 - You're probably right about this, too. One of the times that I had a lot of energy last week was when I ate a near-perfect Peat carrot salad (chopped the carrots instead of using a peeler to make strips). A couple hours later I had great energy again, really nice. Maybe there's some issues in my gut and I should be more consistent about the carrot salad. I clearly have a lot of PUFA in my tissues, 6 years of low carb high fat will do that... all those times I ordered "salad with extra dressing"...yikes. :doh

    I will track everything on cronometer for a few days. Then I'll have to figure out how to post it here... :sweatsmile:

    One person here on the boards, Stargazer1111, seemed to have some issues a bit similar to mine when he went off whole milk. So today I switched back to whole milk halfway through the day as an experiment. I'll probably do 2% starting tomorrow, my PUFA content today was around 3.9 grams, with 1.2g coming from two glasses of whole milk.
     
  10. Optimus

    Optimus Member

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    any updates OP
     
  11. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    OP died, kept drinking coffee with only 2 TBSP of sugar in them.

    @Malris

    A full thyroid panel including total T3, total T4, reverse T3 and TSH, along with a lipid panel including cholesterol readings (of course), vitamin D, 24-hour urinary cortisol, and a full iron panel can offer some insight. Prolactin and PTH can be useful as well; along with TSH they can help gauge thyroid function.

    As mentioned, thyroid will lower blood pressure, and Dr. Peat often recommends it for such.
     
  12. OP
    Malris

    Malris Member

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    Sorry! Been super busy at work.

    Been tracking on cronometer much more thoroughly, lately.

    I have most of those blood tests, but at Disney with the wife and kids so I can't look them up. Things have been getting better, slowly, since I started consulting with Danny Roddy. I make my coffee stronger now... :)

    Upped calcium and lowered phosphorus, just started thyroid (T3 morning & afternoon, T3+T4 at night, Haidut's stuff, topical). Eating more in general, trying to follow hunger and not eat more. With low fat days, I generally get up to 3400 kcals or so. A little lower than that if I have fat, but only sometimes.
     
  13. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    This is basically what happened to me...I'm still trying to find the solution.

    Orange juice gave me high blood pressure. I used to hover around 110/70, and I consistently had been getting readings of 150/90. I stopped drinking orange juice over the past few months, and I'm back to 110/70
     
  14. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Sounds like your eating too much fat, Ive had the same problem
     
  15. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    RIP OP!

    Dont forget that aldosterone amd estradiol readings...
     
  16. OP
    Malris

    Malris Member

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    Sorry for being so short before. Primary cause of the high blood pressure, I think, was the Zyrtec I was taking. I changed to some other brand, don't even remember what, and BP went down to 135/85, which is perfectly fine for me since I'm ~70 lbs overweight.

    Here are some of the blood test results:

    Cholesterol: total 243, HDL 35, LDL 160, trig 239
    T3 uptake: 32
    T4 total: 7.5
    Free T4 Index: 2.4
    TSH: 0.6
    PTH: 11
    GGT: 22
    Iron: 97
    Phosphate: 3.3
    Sodium: 145
    Potassium 4.3
    CO2: 29
    Calcium: 9.6
    Prolactin: 7.4
    Vitamin D, 25-OH: 30

    (I know, I know, no free T3, I misread the test group contents...)

    Danny Roddy suggested that the high cholesterol was likely low thyroid, so I went ahead and ordered some of Haidut's synthetic T3 and T3/T4 mix. I take the T3 topically a couple times a day, 4 drops, been experimenting with another 9 drops orally. 1 drop T3/T4 topically at bedtime, 2 drops was too much, I woke up sweating.

    He thought I should work on upping the D, and make sure my calcium/phosphorous ratio was 1:1 or slightly favoring calcium.

    He suggested that it was possible I was doing my diet mostly right, and the lowered energy, higher blood sugar, and higher blood pressure were all from metabolizing the PUFA in my fat. He highly suggested thyroid.

    So, much better, though I'm not feeling great yet. Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
     
  17. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Perhaps your thyroid is not keeping up with everything you are eating. What is your pulse rate and temperatures?
     
  18. ShirtTieFitness

    ShirtTieFitness Member

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    Surprised this has not been mentioned before but it is likely that the OP's issues are due in part, to negative neurotransmitter adaptations, Specifically Adenosine, via chronic caffeine consumption:

    "Here’s why: As caffeine is plugging up your adenosine receptors, the brain starts feeling overstimulated. By blocking adenosine all the time, you’ve created a chronic imbalance in your brain’s neurotransmitters where it feels that there is too much of the stimulating neurotransmitters and not enough of the relaxing neurotransmitters.

    So the brain basically starts acting like there is an adenosine shortage.

    Now, what does it do? It makes more adenosine receptors! So instead of having just a few adenosine receptors (like in the above images), your brain makes a lot more

    What happens when you have more adenosine receptors?

    Two primary effects:

    1. You develop tolerance to caffeine, that means you start needing more caffeine, more cups of coffee, to get you going and get you through the day. (This is why some people get up to drinking three, four, five, six cups of coffee because they need it in order to function). Basically, even if there is a bunch of caffeine plugging up the adenosine receptors the brain now has so many adenosine receptors that the caffeine cannot plug all of them up and the adenosine still gets in.
    2. Most importantly, your baseline energy, mood, and level of mental and physical performance all drop from chronic caffeine consumption. In other words, it changes your new normal state when you do not have caffeine in the system by lowering everything. When caffeine is not present in the brain, it makes the brain ultra-responsive and sensitive to adenosine. It makes it so that even with the same level of adenosine that was there before the brain now acts like there is a lot more adenosine because it has more receptors to detect it. That means that all the time you are not on caffeine, your energy levels suffer!"
    Source: Coffee - Energy Booster or Energy Destroyer? (The story is trickier than you think!) - The Energy Blueprint

    Its a great resource and includes how to integrate Coffee without it sabotaging your energy.
     
  19. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    What thyroid are you using and also what kind of food makes up the 3400 on low fat days?
     
  20. OP
    Malris

    Malris Member

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    This has been a bit odd, actually. Before starting thyroid, I was around 70 bpm and ~97.5, give or take. (Underarm before rising seems pretty consistent around 96.7.) After coffee/milk & an OJ, my pulse and temps would go up to as much as 90-95 bp and 100.3. Not always that high, but those numbers were pretty frequent.

    Now that I'm taking thyroid, I'm generally around 70-73bpm before a meal, 77-80 after a meal, and I'm almost always 98.7 regardless of eating.

    BUT, I don't check temps as often as I should. I have a fitness monitor watch and so I have pretty good records of HR. I haven't found my thermometer for underarm before rising, will try to do that tomorrow to see if thyroid has made a difference there. Temp seems pretty unreliable, though, I can go up a half a degree in the morning underarm reading by putting more covers on...and by a degree and a half during the day by taking a warm shower.
     
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