Help With Early Waking

[CaliforniaKat]

Hi all,

I have posted a few times, as there were lots of things going on at the same time. Many seem to be solved now, and I am hesitant to make major changes (really bad reaction to something in the spring, messed me up the whole summer).

Food is good: coffee, milk, OJ, eggs, gelatin, cheese, fruit, potatoes, sweet potatoes, sourdough bread occasionally, corn tortillas occasionally, CO, butter, bone broth, beef, cottage cheese, some shrimp, some pork, rarely some chicken. Overall pretty low PUFA

Labs last taken were good, except storage iron and ferritin were low. (nothing else stood out as high/low/strange). Cholesterol last taken was good.

Supplements I use: sodium acetate (a la Nathan Hatch), magnesium citrate, beef liver capsules, D3, K2, low dose aspirin, some days niacinamide, some days taurine, T3 (recent switch from NDT and feeling cold ALL the time, especially hands, nose, feet. Now taking 25mcg T3 spaced across the day, temps came up when I switched and hands/face/nose are usually warm). Niacinamide and taurine are both low dose atm.

Morning temp is 97.5-97.8. Pulse is 65-70 waking. Temps and pulse do go up after food/thyroid. Not quite to 98.6 or higher in afternoons. I do randomly get cold hands here and there, and when that happens I have food or sweetened coffee and it resolves. I have a daily BM (maybe TMI). Calcium to Phosphorus ratio is good. I do track (not every day) regularly on Cronometer.

I have two mains issues that I am still trying to resolve, and they are likely connected. The biggest is that I wake up at 4:30 almost every morning. It doesn't matter how early or late I go to bed. I try to get to bed between 9 and 10 pm. This has been a problem since January, has gotten better/worse but is not resolved. I have been Peating since August. Eating 2500 cals a day, roughly 50% carbs. I tried progesterone for about a week. I made me instantly gain an inch around my waist and put on 5 pounds.

My face looks like I don't sleep. Puffy eyes, eye bags, and some discoloration. I get about 6 hours according to my fitbit.

I have tried salted OJ, ice cream, eating more later, eating more earlier, starch with dinner, no starch with dinner, etc. and so far nothing has made a change. I haven't tested prolactin but some other symptoms suggest it might be higher than it should be. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[johann1988]

More salt

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I have found the following to be helpful for this, starting with the most helpful:

Shower before bed
Inclined bed therapy
A couple grams tri-methyl-glycine before bed
D-Limonene before bed, 500 mg
Low dose lithium (when nothing else works this usually helps)
Melatonin 1.5 hours before bed
Magnesium before bed
Ice cream before bed

D-Limonene is amazing, been taking for a few weeks now and it is delivering excellent results, I fall asleep faster and wake up more refreshed because of it. It calms the nerves very well and has a synergistic effect with other pro-gaba substances. It is very underrated and has a lot of other benefits outside of helping with sleep. I feel really good on it with TMG, I have found I get much better results from TMG than plain glycine or gelatin.

Melatonin will not help one sleep a solid 8 hours, but I have found it also works synergistically towards that goal with things like magnesium. RP has bad things to say about melatonin, but do your own research and it is easy to come across convincing studies showing it as very effective at limiting lipid peroxidation and endotoxin... One thing that a high SFA diet does is to increase endotoxin load.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

Ok, I'm still but having much success. A lot has happened since January.

I was wakening early, hot and sweaty, in January. Wasn't Peat. Was low carb. The waking continued. I had some kind of horrible med reaction in May. Constant panic and anxiety till July. Docs put me on Remeron 7.5 mg.

Borderline low adrenal 4 point saliva test in Aug. Slept, but was tired all the time and could stoped the Remeron/Mirtazipine. At the same time doc changed my thyroid med from Armour to Acella. Changed me back to Armour, and now on T3 only. The early early waking started again as I ramped up t3. I am warm-98.5 or better throughout the day, but constipated and have some high prolactin/estrogen/inadequate Gaba/insulin resistance symptoms that I didn't have in August. Sometimes cold fingers and nose too.

I see a private doc for the metabolism/thyroid stuff, after I was getting nowhere with insurance.

More salt isn't helping. Going back on Mirt hasn't helped much, and I really don't want to rely on it. I'm wondering if I ramped up T3 only to quickly and my metabolism can't keep up.

More thoughts??

 

[CaliforniaKat]

Someone please help with this. I'm only sleeping 4-5 hours now per night. Nothing is helping. I couldn't sleep until midnight and I am up now at 5, sweated through my pjs. Wide awake and hungry. I even attempted yesterday to lessen my t3 dose and add t4, hoping it gives me a more consistent thyroid boost, but not as hard a hit to my metabolism. I know t3 lowers cortisol more directly than t4.

I'm gaining weight rapidly over the past couple of days (3 pounds in 4 days) so I know my blood sugar is out of whack and cortisol is high. I'm super bummed too, because my temps have been warm and my pulse and temps go up after a meal and I thought I was headed in the right direction and now this.

The not sleeping is brutal. I'm so tired but can't sleep during the day. 4-5 hours isn't going to work for long. I'm exhausted all the time these past few days. My eyes are horribly puffy and now under eyes are bruised looking too.

Please help.

 

[lampofred]

I'm not sure if Peat has ever talked about symptoms like yours specifically, but overall they sound like they could be caused by excess serotonin and excess cortisol, which both increase each other in a vicious cycle.

If you're taking 25 mcg T3 in a day and your temps are in the 97s instead of 98s, your body might be producing a lot of reverse T3 due to high cortisol. High cortisol leads to face puffiness, issues with insulin resistance, and poor sleep. Cortisol increases serotonin, which Peat says causes excess sweating and torporific (as opposed to regenerative) sleep, and serotonin in turn increases cortisol.

How much Vitamin A do you get per day? Have you tried increasing the amount the amount of food/carbs you eat from 2500 calories to maybe 3500/4000? Eating enough carbs/sucrose to produce high CO2 and enough Vitamin A to produce ample amounts of pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA are essential for lowering cortisol.

How are your vitamin D levels? Do you get ample amounts of magnesium in your diet? A good vitamin D level is necessary for reducing stress and magnesium is necessary to relax.

Do you eat ample amounts of zinc-rich foods? California is a big place so this might not apply to you, but if you live in a population-dense area of the state, then the radiation can strongly increase cortisol, serotonin, and cause excess mental stimulation by reacting with copper in your body, which you can fight by increasing zinc intake. I think a lot of people have low zinc and high copper. Low zinc will cause excess serotonin and prolactin along with insufficient GABA.

Do you eat freshly-cooked, warm food? I don't know why, but consistently eating fresh, hot meals helps a lot with reducing my cortisol and serotonin levels even though milk and OJ theoretically are supposed to have most of all the essential nutrients we need.

I realize these are a lot of questions, but excess serotonin and cortisol can be caused by several different things. Drastically increasing caloric intake in general, and especially of freshly cooked and zinc-rich foods is what helped most for me when I had similar symptoms (especially with the sweating), also making sure I ate at a regular schedule. Liver is nutrient-rich but has a lot of copper.

 

[YourUniverse]

Could you have an allergy you're as yet unaware of?

Have you tried eating starch in the evening, especially potatoes?

 

[sunraiser]

This has been my biggest problem after a long period of severe overtraining.

You're taking an awful lot of supplements - it's hard for your body to find balance that way.

Hopefully this might be an option for you, but as much close to mid day sun as feels good was a fix within a few days for me. Sadly I don't live in a climate to consistently get sun, though.

The sun felt incredible for me in those days - remember it's only doing you good if it feels good!

 

[jaywills]

The quickest solution to your problem; cutting out Coffee.
Remove all stimulants for 1-2 days and you will get 14 hours each night.
Depending on your tolerance level you may get pretty severe withdrawal symptoms so in that case you can taper down if you are willing to wait.
But i'd say cut out all Coffee, get your Adrenalin and Cortisol down, and then reintroduce in smaller quantities.

 

[Cirion]

Someone please help with this. I'm only sleeping 4-5 hours now per night. Nothing is helping. I couldn't sleep until midnight and I am up now at 5, sweated through my pjs. Wide awake and hungry. I even attempted yesterday to lessen my t3 dose and add t4, hoping it gives me a more consistent thyroid boost, but not as hard a hit to my metabolism. I know t3 lowers cortisol more directly than t4.

You answered your own question here. Eat! Nathan Hatch informed me (he coaches me) that waking up sweaty means your body has rapidly dumped heat and rapidly dropped your metabolism, and rapidly driven up adrenaline, so you need to eat plus get some salt with it. Consistently waking up early means you either aren't eating enough in general, and/or can't hold glucose for 8 hrs straight.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

The quickest solution to your problem; cutting out Coffee.
Remove all stimulants for 1-2 days and you will get 14 hours each night.
Depending on your tolerance level you may get pretty severe withdrawal symptoms so in that case you can taper down if you are willing to wait.
But i'd say cut out all Coffee, get your Adrenalin and Cortisol down, and then reintroduce in smaller quantities.

Much of my coffee intake is decaf or half caffeine already. Caffiene withdrawal sucks big time, done it before. Lol.

I have never slept 14 hr straight as an adult. Lol. Ever.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

I'm not sure if Peat has ever talked about symptoms like yours specifically, but overall they sound like they could be caused by excess serotonin and excess cortisol, which both increase each other in a vicious cycle.

If you're taking 25 mcg T3 in a day and your temps are in the 97s instead of 98s, your body might be producing a lot of reverse T3 due to high cortisol. High cortisol leads to face puffiness, issues with insulin resistance, and poor sleep. Cortisol increases serotonin, which Peat says causes excess sweating and torporific (as opposed to regenerative) sleep, and serotonin in turn increases cortisol.

How much Vitamin A do you get per day? Have you tried increasing the amount the amount of food/carbs you eat from 2500 calories to maybe 3500/4000? Eating enough carbs/sucrose to produce high CO2 and enough Vitamin A to produce ample amounts of pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA are essential for lowering cortisol.

How are your vitamin D levels? Do you get ample amounts of magnesium in your diet? A good vitamin D level is necessary for reducing stress and magnesium is necessary to relax.

Do you eat ample amounts of zinc-rich foods? California is a big place so this might not apply to you, but if you live in a population-dense area of the state, then the radiation can strongly increase cortisol, serotonin, and cause excess mental stimulation by reacting with copper in your body, which you can fight by increasing zinc intake. I think a lot of people have low zinc and high copper. Low zinc will cause excess serotonin and prolactin along with insufficient GABA.

Do you eat freshly-cooked, warm food? I don't know why, but consistently eating fresh, hot meals helps a lot with reducing my cortisol and serotonin levels even though milk and OJ theoretically are supposed to have most of all the essential nutrients we need.

I realize these are a lot of questions, but excess serotonin and cortisol can be caused by several different things. Drastically increasing caloric intake in general, and especially of freshly cooked and zinc-rich foods is what helped most for me when I had similar symptoms (especially with the sweating), also making sure I ate at a regular schedule. Liver is nutrient-rich but has a lot of copper.

At 25 mcg a day my temps are good actually. Temps came up as I increased t3. But 3 weeks in I'm not sleeping as well, and waking at 4, hot and sweaty, and starving, and starving during the day too. Gaining stomach weight, and have that exhausted but wired feeling. Atm taking t3 and eating makes me more tired during the day, but not tired enough to sleep.

I could be wrong, but was under the impression that you can't make reverse t3 from t3, only from t4. The Wilson temperature reset protocol is all about dropping your own t4 and supplementing t3 to fix reverse t3 problems.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

Could you have an allergy you're as yet unaware of?

Have you tried eating starch in the evening, especially potatoes?

It might be an allergy, but I doubt it. It could also me histamine reaction (maybe?) But I doubt it.

I have tried potatoes at various times of the day. So far not a consistent fix.

I think I may not be able to handle ramping my metabolism for now. Maybe back to NDT, but that also means cold hands, low body temp, and still high cortisol to deal with. Ugh.

 

[Alpha]

Cheese can be exciting, and some people cannot tolerate more than a half cup of milk. Try to stop those see if it helps. And use Cyproheptadine.

 

[sunraiser]

The suggestions are well meaning but so you can avoid some of the pain and rigmarole of trying them, I'll share some experience and warning.

UNLESS you are restricting calories intentionally, then eating more will NOT help your sleep. It will just increase endotoxin and overburden your liver. I made my health severely worse by following this suggestion for months. Once your metabolism starts to recover then caloric need will very likely increase (though perhaps not).

Sleep is strongly connected to calcium and magnesium metabolism in my experience, so fat soluble balance issues are likely to be at play. Time and time again people here recommend doing battle with cortisol levels - IF YOUR CORTISOL IS HIGH IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HIGH RIGHT NOW DUE TO YOUR METABOLIC STATE! Caps because it's so important.

A cortisol lowering substance (or combo) will make you less robust and less healthy - again, it will correct itself once you address the rate limiting factors which almost always come down to mineral metabolism. The same with exogenous hormones. Your body isn't broken, it's merely doing its very best to sustain your vital functions under current circumstances - this sadly entails some degree of discomfort.

Is there anywhere you can go to get sun on your stomach and back? As much of your skin as possible. Having slept 4 hours or so for years I completely understand how horrendous it is - please please don't make yourself worse by adding hopeful hormones or amino acids or protocols. Try to get some sun for a few days and report back. Also, stop taking your liver supplements for now.

I can't make anymore suggestions without being irresponsible - you obviously have your own intuition and understanding but I'm confident enough to add those two suggestions.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I had night sweats and terrible sleep when my health was at its worst. I found that taking care of my sinuses fixed this problem. All the other peaty things only kind of helped. I think I had a sinus infection from mold exposure. Iodine and xylitol nasal rinses helped me a lot.

 

[tara]

Hi Kat,
I don't know what is going on or what will work for you, but here are some thoughts if you want to explore them. I've not in any way resolved my health issues, so don't count me a perfect model.

Wide awake too early and unable to fall asleep again quickly for me has usually seemed the result of one or more of:

• Fuel supply - sometimes a very small snack, very quickly, without disturbing myself more than minimally, has been enough to get me back to sleep. (I didn't always feel hungry, but food fixed it. Something by the bed that I could find without opening eyes or sitting up was ideal.)
• Overheating - many times I've made the bed warm to get to sleep, but needed to throw off a layer some time in the morning to be able to keep sleeping.
• Extreme life stress intruding into my thoughts when I wake before I can get a grip on them.

Other thoughts:

• For me, I can tell that I feel better on days when I eat vegetables, including greens and others, than when I don't. That might not apply to you - there seem to be many here who say they thrive without, but just mentioning the possibility.
• Are you getting sunlight or daylight everyday?
• Some suitable movement (maybe gentle), preferably outdoors, most days?
• Doing things that you find relaxing and enjoyable and connected with other people regularly?Coffee could be disrupting. If you are able to gradually reduce or wean, you might notice that making quite a difference. Though it might have withdrawal consequences too.
• Breathing nasally at night? If you are breathing through your mouth, or are not sure about this, chin strap or tape can help ensure it. Helps hinder nighttime hyperventilation, which is stressful.
• Thinking about your T3 supp, are you taking it through the day - that is the daylight half of the 24 hour period, and leaving a longer spell at night without any? If so, the night-time dip in that could be having an effect? I think that's the reason Peat has sometimes recommended small T3 doses through the day (when needed) and a T4 or mixed dose at night - T4 having the much longer half life that can sustain through the night. I'm no expert in this, and not giving advice, but if I were in your shoes, I'm wondering if I'd be trying a small NDT dose in the evening to see if it made a difference.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

@tara @Captain_Coconut @sunraiser
There is a lot here. So this will be long.

I am not restricting calories intentionally, but might not be eating enough for the upgrade in metabolism. Sleep got worse as I switched from NDT to t3. I'm actually thinking about trying to switch back but at this point I am so worried about doing more damage and making things worse. I really wish there was a person I could work with more closely about this. I'm relatively new to Peat. Have read Deering and Hatch books. Have been hypo for decades and taking different forms of thyroid at various points.

I take t3 spread out across the day with food. Last dose is afternoon.

I do get sun but not enough. I work inside under florescent lights. I do try to walk in the afternoon (in CA).

There is some anxiety at this point. I haven't slept more than a few hours each night in days.

Would any of you, or can you tag someone who could help with how to salary and under which timeline lower the t3 and add t4 or ndt in the evening?

 

[CaliforniaKat]

@tara @Captain_Coconut @sunraiser
There is a lot here. So this will be long.

I am not restricting calories intentionally, but might not be eating enough for the upgrade in metabolism. Sleep got worse as I switched from NDT to t3. I'm actually thinking about trying to switch back but at this point I am so worried about doing more damage and making things worse. I really wish there was a person I could work with more closely about this. I'm relatively new to Peat. Have read Deering and Hatch books. Have been hypo for decades and taking different forms of thyroid at various points.

I take t3 spread out across the day with food. Last dose is afternoon.

I do get sun but not enough. I work inside under florescent lights. I do try to walk in the afternoon (in CA).

There is some anxiety at this point. I haven't slept more than a few hours each night in days.

Does anyone here (I know Nathan Hatch does) help others or coach or whatever and could possibly help me sort all this out?

 

[CaliforniaKat]

@tara @Captain_Coconut @sunraiser
There is a lot here. So this will be long.

I am not restricting calories intentionally, but might not be eating enough for the upgrade in metabolism. Sleep got worse as I switched from NDT to t3. I'm actually thinking about trying to switch back but at this point I am so worried about doing more damage and making things worse. I really wish there was a person I could work with more closely about this. I'm relatively new to Peat. Have read Deering and Hatch books. Have been hypo for decades and taking different forms of thyroid at various points.

I take t3 spread out across the day with food. Last dose is afternoon.

I do get sun but not enough. I work inside under florescent lights. I do try to walk in the afternoon (in CA).

There is some anxiety at this point. I haven't slept more than a few hours each night in days.

Does anyone here (I know Nathan Hatch does) help others or coach or whatever and could possibly help me sort all this out?