Is Looking Feminine Essentially Bad For Men?

[GreekDemiGod]

I was never the guy who rocked a beard, most I can get away is a 3 day stubble.
Beards are a way to fraud lack of masculine, angular features (jawline).
But it's interesting to see it's a primal attraction trait to a lot of women.
Would prime Brad Pitt or J. Depp look better with a beard? I doubt it.

Also, I think some man look unique with some feminine features, if and only if they have dominant strong masculine features, so a mix of both essentially. This is the pretty boy phenotype.

 

[Kunstruct]

I was never the guy who rocked a beard, most I can get away is a 3 day stubble.
Beards are a way to fraud lack of masculine, angular features (jawline).
But it's interesting to see it's a primal attraction trait to a lot of women.
Would prime Brad Pitt or J. Depp look better with a beard? I doubt it.

Also, I think some man look unique with some feminine features, if and only if they have dominant strong masculine features, so a mix of both essentially. This is the pretty boy phenotype.

It is a normal trait of men to have facial hair and not for women, and it seems always forgotten as a masculine feature, there is nothing fraudulent about one having facial hair. But how fraudulent it is to dye one's hair another color?
And my point is that women don't like it, I still have not heard one woman saying she likes beards or facial hair in reality, it is only in the last few years that beards have been more accepted in general by women.

 

[YamnayaMommy]

I think most women do not like facial hair on men.

Feminine women like masculine men. If they have options, they will go for tall men with good musculature and low body fat levels. Or lots of money.

 

[YamnayaMommy]

When I see facial hair in guys, I assume they are hiding a poor jaw line or a double chin.

 

[Inaut]

I hate these kind of discussions. People with insecurities only become more insecure what others deem as attractive.

Don’t listen to anybody and love yourself. Something makes me special over the next dude. Whether anybody else believes that, I could careless.

Not directed at anybody here, just think these discussions lead to fake projections.

Jmo

 

[Zigzag]

I hate these kind of discussions. People with insecurities only become more insecure what others deem as attractive.

Don’t listen to anybody and love yourself. Something makes me special over the next dude. Whether anybody else believes that, I could careless.

Not directed at anybody here, just think these discussions lead to fake projections.

Jmo

What projections. There are certain traits that are universally attractive in both sexes. For men: narrow hips, wide chest and shoulders, thich neck, thick wrists, full head of dark hair, hunter eyes, angularity in face and capability of growing full beard.

 

[Nebula]

I hate these kind of discussions. People with insecurities only become more insecure what others deem as attractive.

Don’t listen to anybody and love yourself. Something makes me special over the next dude. Whether anybody else believes that, I could careless.

Not directed at anybody here, just think these discussions lead to fake projections.

Jmo

These discussions are also out of touch and proportion with the reality of what is most useful in the modern world. Charisma, sociability/networking, mindfulness combined can more than make up for physical flaws for success in relationships and career. There are fashions that come and go in less than a year, but a self confident contributor is timeless.

Groom and dress yourself well, strive for a well functioning metabolism, but in this era more than ever your character traits are more valuable than the fashion of your looks despite us living in a very youthful looks obsessed age. Men and women can earn about the same as each other now on average. We are both realizing we want to be around people with good character more than anything. A specific look can often make a very strong first impression, but character is still the better bet for improving the way others value you.

 

[schultz]

When I see facial hair in guys, I assume they are hiding a poor jaw line or a double chin.

I asked my wife and she said she likes stubble and short trimmed beards but not full bushy beards. I imagine most women feel this way. What do you think?

 

[YamnayaMommy]

I asked my wife and she said she likes stubble and short trimmed beards but not full bushy beards. I imagine most women feel this way. What do you think?

Yeah I’ll concede stubble can look rugged in an attractive way.

Definitely, great charisma and good personality can make up for bad looks. But the truth is most people don’t have much of either. And maybe that’s why young people are increasingly not marrying and not having sex at rates of gen x and boomers.

My extremely black-pilled husband thinks that sex robots, feminism, and ssri’s will combine to decimate marriage in our kids’ generation. Only the best looking and traditionally disposed people will marry and reproduce.

 

[danishispsychic]

Probably all you would really have to do is eat junk food, sodas, drink water out of plastic bottles etc - there is so much extra estrogen out there that I am thinking that if you did not try to get rid of the extra or care about what you were consuming, you would end up estrogen dominant like so so so many men and women out there that just consume it day and night. Like Michael Pollen refers to them as ' Corn People" . Oh and also make sure you are around a lot of Round Up -

 

[Runenight201]

These discussions are also out of touch and proportion with the reality of what is is most useful in the modern world. Charisma, sociability/networking, mindfulness combined can more than make up for physical flaws for success in relationships and career. There are fashions that come and go in less than a year, but a self confident contributor is timeless.

Groom and dress yourself well, strive for a well functioning metabolism, but in this era more than ever your character traits are more valuable than the fashion of your looks despite us living in a very youthful looks obsessed age. Men and women can earn about the same as each other now on average. We are both realizing we want to be around people with good character more than anything. A specific look can often make a very strong first impression, but character is still the better bet for improving the way others value you.

The rise of the obsession on physical attributes is short-sighted, and detracts from what really advances people on. I see a general fetish of traditional masculine and feminine physical looks with almost no discussion on what actually brings social success, which is competency. A good looking male/female will get their foot in the door, but quickly be booted out for being unable to keep up. People who lack social skills, aren’t interesting, dull, etc... are quickly overlooked in a group.

There’s this underlying desire to be the THE traditional male/female in so many, that it can become deluded into attempting to change characteristics that may be practically impossible. This becomes detrimental when it reaches a point of obsession, so much that it damages the psyche and detracts from meaningful progress in career, skills, ambitions, etc...

There’s so many different combinations and ways to succeed in this world, finding out what special attributes any one person has goes a long way towards developing something of value to contribute.

As a final note, in a grand display of irony to this thread, a feminine looking man is very successful in South Korea. The men are wearing lip stick and dancing in choreographed sync on stage and earning millions of dollars and having women fantasize about them. Beauty is especially sensitivity to the culture and what is selected as important at the time.

 

[YamnayaMommy]

I agree sort of.

“Looksmaxing” in women but especially men is boring. Ideally, you look great without having to put much thought or effort into it, and thus have time for more interesting pursuits: literature, music, sport, travel, family, etc. that’s why people, if they’re really into their health and looks, should practice sprezzatura and conceal the extent of their self care.

On the other hand, we live in a time when almost everyone looks awful unless they put effort into their health and looks.

Being fit signals so many positive mental attributes: self control, low time preference, self denial. Being fat and sloppy signals you don’t care about yourself, are low energy, and cannot govern your appetite.

I am pretty sure intelligence is positively correlated with height and attractiveness. Possibly because they share genetic locations.

although I have observed that attractive and fit people generally have better personalities all around, I have also known really intelligent and good guys who can’t get girlfriends/wives because they’re short and overweight. They would fantastic dads. It’s really depressing.

 

[methylenewhite]

It's ok to be femenine. Brutal caveman age is over.

 

[schultz]

My extremely black-pilled husband thinks that sex robots, feminism, and ssri’s will combine to decimate marriage in our kids’ generation. Only the best looking and traditionally disposed people will marry and reproduce.

Haha, that may indeed happen. It already is in a big way (not sure how popular sex 'robots' are yet though)

It's ok to be femenine. Brutal caveman age is over.

This whole conversation really depends on what we define as feminine and masculine traits, as somebody already mentioned. When I answered originally I was thinking of more subtle things like facial proportions, hair, etc. I was not talking about obvious feminine traits like breasts, hips, etc. The 'caveman' look can be achieved through massively increased growth hormone, which I would consider to be unhealthy for the organism generally. I am interested in the optimal health of the organism and its evolutionary future. Having a pituitary tumor can give a person a bigger bone structure, strength, and generally more masculine features, but I wouldn't consider it healthy. Andre the Giant was apparently very strong, was quite tall, had huge hands, a deep voice and could drink over 100 cans of beer in a night. Sounds quite manly!

As mankind has evolved we have come to look more feminine generally (or at least what people consider to be feminine). Larger heads, smaller faces, less body hair, probably less strength than previous humans.

 

[boris]

The rise of the obsession on physical attributes is short-sighted, and detracts from what really advances people on. I see a general fetish of traditional masculine and feminine physical looks with almost no discussion on what actually brings social success, which is competency. A good looking male/female will get their foot in the door, but quickly be booted out for being unable to keep up. People who lack social skills, aren’t interesting, dull, etc... are quickly overlooked in a group.

There’s this underlying desire to be the THE traditional male/female in so many, that it can become deluded into attempting to change characteristics that may be practically impossible. This becomes detrimental when it reaches a point of obsession, so much that it damages the psyche and detracts from meaningful progress in career, skills, ambitions, etc...

There’s so many different combinations and ways to succeed in this world, finding out what special attributes any one person has goes a long way towards developing something of value to contribute.

As a final note, in a grand display of irony to this thread, a feminine looking man is very successful in South Korea. The men are wearing lip stick and dancing in choreographed sync on stage and earning millions of dollars and having women fantasize about them. Beauty is especially sensitivity to the culture and what is selected as important at the time.

I think this feminine trend in Korea solely exists because it is pushed in media. Media=desirable.

Just like how in our culture (some decades ago) the hairy body type was pushed as masculine. Then heroine chic for women. Now it's morbid obesity for women that's being pushed.

...Actually nowadays everyone lives in a bubble thanks to social media and targeted content. You are a skinny low carb vegan, in your own bubble this is the image of health. Morbidly obese, same thing. Extreme exercise low body fat endurance training people, same thing.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@boris So you'd sany the niche of women who are attracted to such traits are only because of the status associated with it, and not because they have a primal inclination towards those traits?

 

[Herbie]

When I see facial hair in guys, I assume they are hiding a poor jaw line or a double chin.

Yes I think this is why any young man grows a pubic beard today to create the illusion of a larger stronger jaw to give a more masculine look

 

[Jing]

Women who like masculine men like a good beard, a beard is masculine only men can grow beards it signals high androgens.

 

[schultz]

@boris So you'd sany the niche of women who are attracted to such traits are only because of the status associated with it, and not because they have a primal inclination towards those traits?

It's possible. Culture can have a confounding effect on this sort of stuff. It might be a good thing in some circumstances as human culture can change rapidly so peoples perception of what is attractive can change quickly with it based on new information. So if we are using attractiveness as a barometer for what is healthy (which is what I'm interested in personally) we need to tease these things out. Unfortunately there are other confounding factors based on our presuppositions. Like if someone assumes certain traits are masculine, and therefore ideal from a health and longevity perspective. Body hair is masculine, but is excessive body hair a sign of good or ill health?

 

[boris]

@boris So you'd sany the niche of women who are attracted to such traits are only because of the status associated with it, and not because they have a primal inclination towards those traits?

Absolutely. Look up mirror neurons and how they work.