Jordan Peterson talk on the ideology of trans

InChristAlone

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So many quote worthy lines in this video.

"When you say that men can become women, by saying they're women, you're making a statement about language, not a statement about reality"

"The battle is between narcissistic delusions and reality itself"

"We know that the more you think about yourself this is literally true there is no difference between thinking about yourself and being miserable they load on the same statistical axis and so these kids that are constantly being tormented by 150 identities, that's a front not of freedom, but of utter chaos and then asked to constantly reflect on their own state of emotional well-being and happiness is the surest route to the kind of misery that's going to open them up to psychogenic epidemics."

"When you look at these people what they're seeing when they look in the mirror is not what you're seeing, they're seeing a fantasy they're seeing a fantastic version of themselves but you who are not in love with this idea of the feminine version of this man you're seeing something a lot less flattering and that's very hurtful to them that's experienced I think as a psychic insult that you know because it's like being flipped out of the fantasy like if you're in this beautiful fantasy and then someone laughs or someone calls you he and then that that's narcissistic rage is what you see. That's right, it's narcissistic rage, in many ways the same level that you'd see in a thwarted two-year-old yes yes and it feels like that when you're at the receiving end I have to say yeah well that's for sure I've done both I've felt both well right and when when you see when you see these activists on this front melt down and have a tantrum especially if you have a clinical eye or you've been a parent you think oh my God like that's that's exactly what two-year-olds do and that's a hell of an early developmental level to be fixated at you know yeah that's really bad that's really bad that shows a real disjunction in psychological development. "

A comment said: "I learnt more about society from this discussion than I did from my 10 years' worth of reading and researching cultural studies at university."
 
OP
InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Messages
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People are well we know we're mortal we
1:09:05
know our flaws we know we're going to die we know we aren't canonical examples of our sex that we could be much better
1:09:12
in a thousand ways than we are we all have to bear that burden and so that dysphoria that's mortality dysphoria and
1:09:21
it can manifest itself in all sorts of ways and that's part and parcel of The Human Condition but to entice young
1:09:27
people into assuming that radical surgical transformation is the sure cure
1:09:32
for that is well I also believe that it borders on the Demonic I compared the people who were doing
1:09:39
transformation surgery on minors to people who sacrifice children to moloch

@Peatful
 

parallax

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Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
84
Location
Texas USA
It seems to me difficult to arrive securely at many firm conclusions except that people will inevitably feel a strong mix of intuitions and ideas in response to the cultural push for trans rights, just as transgender people will feel an unspeakable stew of feelings and thoughts in response to the spectre of an authoritative culture that holds unworthiness as a foredrawn conclusion and discusses worthiness only in an effort to match reality to that foregone conclusion. The strength of these forces do not allow one to overcome the other, and the natural result of the chaotic rushing uncertainty is that many people in both camps double down on their critical spot of solid ground, the only thing they can be certain of in a tide of confusion and dismay. Others of us take refuge in the sidelines, hiding and hoping nobody catches our gaze.
The transgender person knows they have a fundamental right to life and basic dignity, and has stared in the face of personal, internal, and external oblivion. So they understandably have trouble hearing any voices in the middle, as they see plain as day that their position is nothing less than personal sovereignty. Meanwhile on the other side people with the same basic needs can see by common sense that to be transgender is to not accept basic reality, and exactly because this is an issue of the most personal sovereignty and intimate nature, they feel those firm foundations falling away and they too double down on their last bit of solid ground.
This focused stance on solid ground is as understandable as it is unmoving. Only by revealing its futility can it teach. But can we hear it?
This flood of pain, fear, and confusion is a natural result of establishing our personal identity on the unstable ground of worthiness. Our ego is not our true self, but we believe it is and we have given it that authority. The ego is the spiritual or psychological equivalent to the physical amygdala, whos important role is to watch for and react to danger, and it is naturally biased towards false positives, since failing to notice a real risk is often more acutely destructive than noticing false risk. The ego watches for social danger, which likewise ascribes a default state of unworthiness pending approval.
Jesus' famous interaction in John chapter 8 is illustrative to this issue, as is his 'sermon on the mount.'


John 8
At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


Many might wish to lean on this "go and leave your life of sin" to argue against transgenderism. But in this narrative Jesus is responding to a trap set by legalist Pharisees, and Jesus does not condemn the accused. There is cause to consider this narrative and heed Jesus' actions carefully.

I suspect this issue in our culture will continue to be a fight until it is no longer a fight. No one can win, because neither can afford to lose.
 
OP
InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
5,955
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It seems to me difficult to arrive securely at many firm conclusions except that people will inevitably feel a strong mix of intuitions and ideas in response to the cultural push for trans rights, just as transgender people will feel an unspeakable stew of feelings and thoughts in response to the spectre of an authoritative culture that holds unworthiness as a foredrawn conclusion and discusses worthiness only in an effort to match reality to that foregone conclusion. The strength of these forces do not allow one to overcome the other, and the natural result of the chaotic rushing uncertainty is that many people in both camps double down on their critical spot of solid ground, the only thing they can be certain of in a tide of confusion and dismay. Others of us take refuge in the sidelines, hiding and hoping nobody catches our gaze.
The transgender person knows they have a fundamental right to life and basic dignity, and has stared in the face of personal, internal, and external oblivion. So they understandably have trouble hearing any voices in the middle, as they see plain as day that their position is nothing less than personal sovereignty. Meanwhile on the other side people with the same basic needs can see by common sense that to be transgender is to not accept basic reality, and exactly because this is an issue of the most personal sovereignty and intimate nature, they feel those firm foundations falling away and they too double down on their last bit of solid ground.
This focused stance on solid ground is as understandable as it is unmoving. Only by revealing its futility can it teach. But can we hear it?
This flood of pain, fear, and confusion is a natural result of establishing our personal identity on the unstable ground of worthiness. Our ego is not our true self, but we believe it is and we have given it that authority. The ego is the spiritual or psychological equivalent to the physical amygdala, whos important role is to watch for and react to danger, and it is naturally biased towards false positives, since failing to notice a real risk is often more acutely destructive than noticing false risk. The ego watches for social danger, which likewise ascribes a default state of unworthiness pending approval.
Jesus' famous interaction in John chapter 8 is illustrative to this issue, as is his 'sermon on the mount.'


John 8
At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


Many might wish to lean on this "go and leave your life of sin" to argue against transgenderism. But in this narrative Jesus is responding to a trap set by legalist Pharisees, and Jesus does not condemn the accused. There is cause to consider this narrative and heed Jesus' actions carefully.

I suspect this issue in our culture will continue to be a fight until it is no longer a fight. No one can win, because neither can afford to lose.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with most of it. Just one thing about Jesus, no he did not condemn as in rebuke strongly or punish adulterers, prostitutes or tax collector's but it's very clear he will say 'go and sin no more'. The people who refused to stop were not followers of Jesus. To be a follower of Jesus is to be born again in Christ, meaning you wont be living a double life or a life of fantasy and hedonism. It is to completely shed the old feelings thoughts and desires that was leading you to your destruction and to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Allowing God to inform you of your identity instead of your feeling and delusions. Accepting reality is hard, it means coming face to face with of all of your fears and traumas and character defects. And not everyone will want to walk that path, it is a very narrow path that leads to the fullness of what God has for us. The path that leads to life.

JP might come off as uncaring towards trans because he wants to protect the children that are being indoctrinated into this identity crisis. I just read a story of a school who is affirming a student that identifies as a cat. This is beyond compassion. This is enabling mental delusions.
 

parallax

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Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
84
Location
Texas USA
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with most of it. Just one thing about Jesus, no he did not condemn as in rebuke strongly or punish adulterers, prostitutes or tax collector's but it's very clear he will say 'go and sin no more'. The people who refused to stop were not followers of Jesus. To be a follower of Jesus is to be born again in Christ, meaning you wont be living a double life or a life of fantasy and hedonism. It is to completely shed the old feelings thoughts and desires that was leading you to your destruction and to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Allowing God to inform you of your identity instead of your feeling and delusions. Accepting reality is hard, it means coming face to face with of all of your fears and traumas and character defects. And not everyone will want to walk that path, it is a very narrow path that leads to the fullness of what God has for us. The path that leads to life.

JP might come off as uncaring towards trans because he wants to protect the children that are being indoctrinated into this identity crisis. I just read a story of a school who is affirming a student that identifies as a cat. This is beyond compassion. This is enabling mental delusions.
I regard it as not the Christian's role to identify or comment on sin except privately where direct and interpersonal. The law itself, and the holy spirit, indeed Jesus can convict people of their sin. I am familiar with the opposing views on that issue, and the scripture they draw on. But I also see an abundance of failure in the method of rebuking sin, and success in a commitment to love the unloveable that allows Christ to do the conviction. I'm not arguing for uniformity in this topic, and I am quite comfortable respecting your take. I don't disagree with Peterson in a way he would consider disagreement. I empathize with his suffering, as he seems tortured by a fundamentally dark burden, his teaching quite lean in gratitude, awe, and hope. Indeed, he is correctly identifying aspects of what he sees when staring into the abyss. But light penetrates all darkness, and hope persists in the face of oblivion.

While there is inevitability to this cultural situation, I view the cat identity topic an example of deeply personal issues being rudely coopted into broad societal conversations. There is a huge amount of reactive political circus going on that does nobody any good. But transgenderism and related taboos are deeply personal, private issues that can only be functionally talked about on the scale of the individual, and it is to me hideous when any of these personal issues are used as lubrication in the gears of a huge impersonal machine. But alas, none of this is surprising.
 
OP
InChristAlone

InChristAlone

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
5,955
Location
USA
I regard it as not the Christian's role to identify or comment on sin except privately where direct and interpersonal. The law itself, and the holy spirit, indeed Jesus can convict people of their sin. I am familiar with the opposing views on that issue, and the scripture they draw on. But I also see an abundance of failure in the method of rebuking sin, and success in a commitment to love the unloveable that allows Christ to do the conviction. I'm not arguing for uniformity in this topic, and I am quite comfortable respecting your take. I don't disagree with Peterson in a way he would consider disagreement. I empathize with his suffering, as he seems tortured by a fundamentally dark burden, his teaching quite lean in gratitude, awe, and hope. Indeed, he is correctly identifying aspects of what he sees when staring into the abyss. But light penetrates all darkness, and hope persists in the face of oblivion.

While there is inevitability to this cultural situation, I view the cat identity topic an example of deeply personal issues being rudely coopted into broad societal conversations. There is a huge amount of reactive political circus going on that does nobody any good. But transgenderism and related taboos are deeply personal, private issues that can only be functionally talked about on the scale of the individual, and it is to me hideous when any of these personal issues are used as lubrication in the gears of a huge impersonal machine. But alas, none of this is surprising.
Conservatives' main gripe with the LGBTQ community is it has not been deeply personal and private. It has been flagrant and flamboyant and indoctrinating. I was once heavily into social media and was on TikTok for a short while. It was constantly recommending videos of lesbians albeit I did watch them because they were eye-catching and enticing and I noticed many straight people were commenting and reacting to those videos saying they think they may be bisexual because they find this really attractive. Well yeah dress up for the camera looking all sexy with dramatic music and it's going to be enticing. But these lesbians are doing it for attention. That does not mean you need to explore your sexuality because you found that woman dressed as a man sexy. And then there have been celebrities flagrantly announcing their gender changes, getting large amounts of views and likes. I'm not sure if you realize how deep this rabbit hole goes. I tried explaining the propaganda on the other thread with the quotes from that gay activist book. This has been extremely intentional to try to push their agenda on everyone. That is why conservatives are reacting, it's being shoved down their throats everywhere and they are done playing along. My kids are homeschooled but if I found out their teacher was talking about gender identity and sexuality I'd be at that school immediately. That's pure brainwashing to introduce a kindergartener to gender identities.

With regards to rebuke I agree Christians should never rebuke non-christians, but we do have a say how much we are willing to go along with the propaganda. Keep the sex in the bedroom and let parents teach their kids how they see fit! I see it as child abuse to introduce those topics at such young ages. And grooming as well. Human trafficking is a serious thing and people are groomed into it.

The kids wanting to be called 'furries' and go in litter boxes is outrageous because never before in history have we affirmed fantasies like this. We know kids like to play dress up and role play, everyone knew it was make believe, there was no need to talk about whether your child really wanted to be a different gender or a different species. Maybe it's the insane YouTube videos targeting children with adults dressing up and doing weird clownish acts. The line between reality and acting is becoming skewed.
 

sleepson

Member
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
29
It seems to me difficult to arrive securely at many firm conclusions except that people will inevitably feel a strong mix of intuitions and ideas in response to the cultural push for trans rights, just as transgender people will feel an unspeakable stew of feelings and thoughts in response to the spectre of an authoritative culture that holds unworthiness as a foredrawn conclusion and discusses worthiness only in an effort to match reality to that foregone conclusion. The strength of these forces do not allow one to overcome the other, and the natural result of the chaotic rushing uncertainty is that many people in both camps double down on their critical spot of solid ground, the only thing they can be certain of in a tide of confusion and dismay. Others of us take refuge in the sidelines, hiding and hoping nobody catches our gaze.
The transgender person knows they have a fundamental right to life and basic dignity, and has stared in the face of personal, internal, and external oblivion. So they understandably have trouble hearing any voices in the middle, as they see plain as day that their position is nothing less than personal sovereignty. Meanwhile on the other side people with the same basic needs can see by common sense that to be transgender is to not accept basic reality, and exactly because this is an issue of the most personal sovereignty and intimate nature, they feel those firm foundations falling away and they too double down on their last bit of solid ground.
This focused stance on solid ground is as understandable as it is unmoving. Only by revealing its futility can it teach. But can we hear it?
This flood of pain, fear, and confusion is a natural result of establishing our personal identity on the unstable ground of worthiness. Our ego is not our true self, but we believe it is and we have given it that authority. The ego is the spiritual or psychological equivalent to the physical amygdala, whos important role is to watch for and react to danger, and it is naturally biased towards false positives, since failing to notice a real risk is often more acutely destructive than noticing false risk. The ego watches for social danger, which likewise ascribes a default state of unworthiness pending approval.
Jesus' famous interaction in John chapter 8 is illustrative to this issue, as is his 'sermon on the mount.'


John 8
At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


Many might wish to lean on this "go and leave your life of sin" to argue against transgenderism. But in this narrative Jesus is responding to a trap set by legalist Pharisees, and Jesus does not condemn the accused. There is cause to consider this narrative and heed Jesus' actions carefully.

I suspect this issue in our culture will continue to be a fight until it is no longer a fight. No one can win, because neither can afford to lose.
He does not condemn the accused but he does softly rebuke. Those who are quickened by the spirit will clearly see their sin and how severe it is, creating an unfathomable distance between the sinful creature and the holy and righteous creator God. The believer in Christ, being regenerated by the spirit, is dead to sin and is no longer bound by it (see Romans 6). “If ye love me, Keep my commandments” John 14:15. See also Luke 6:46-49. Only through the synergistic work of sanctification (via the believer and the Holy Spirit) can one begin to live according to God’s law. We know that justification comes through grace alone through faith in Christ alone but this regeneration empowers the Christian to good works which follow regeneration (Ephesians 2:10).

In this scripture (which FWIW is not found in many of the oldest manuscripts), Christ does not condemn the sinner, who very well may have repented and believed unto salvation, however our Lord now “sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead”. Christ will judge all on that final day, and we know all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), all were born in sin (Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-21), and that only those sealed in Christ and covered with his perfect righteousness will stand in judgment.

As far as saying that no one can win the fight, this matter of transgenderism is theological at heart. Romans 1:18-32 perfectly sums up the state of the world especially regarding such matters. God created man in his image, man and women he created them (Genesis 1:27) and in the dominion mandate commanded them to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:28). He established marriage between man and woman (Gen 2:23-25) and has given instruction for God-honoring marriage in scripture (Ephesians 5:22-33).

Just as God’s purposes will never be thwarted, his enemies ultimately will be in the end, and in the judgement. Praise be to God for this blessed truth!
 

Morgan

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
139
Conservatives' main gripe with the LGBTQ community is it has not been deeply personal and private. It has been flagrant and flamboyant and indoctrinating. I was once heavily into social media and was on TikTok for a short while. It was constantly recommending videos of lesbians albeit I did watch them because they were eye-catching and enticing and I noticed many straight people were commenting and reacting to those videos saying they think they may be bisexual because they find this really attractive. Well yeah dress up for the camera looking all sexy with dramatic music and it's going to be enticing. But these lesbians are doing it for attention. That does not mean you need to explore your sexuality because you found that woman dressed as a man sexy. And then there have been celebrities flagrantly announcing their gender changes, getting large amounts of views and likes. I'm not sure if you realize how deep this rabbit hole goes. I tried explaining the propaganda on the other thread with the quotes from that gay activist book. This has been extremely intentional to try to push their agenda on everyone. That is why conservatives are reacting, it's being shoved down their throats everywhere and they are done playing along. My kids are homeschooled but if I found out their teacher was talking about gender identity and sexuality I'd be at that school immediately. That's pure brainwashing to introduce a kindergartener to gender identities.

With regards to rebuke I agree Christians should never rebuke non-christians, but we do have a say how much we are willing to go along with the propaganda. Keep the sex in the bedroom and let parents teach their kids how they see fit! I see it as child abuse to introduce those topics at such young ages. And grooming as well. Human trafficking is a serious thing and people are groomed into it.

The kids wanting to be called 'furries' and go in litter boxes is outrageous because never before in history have we affirmed fantasies like this. We know kids like to play dress up and role play, everyone knew it was make believe, there was no need to talk about whether your child really wanted to be a different gender or a different species. Maybe it's the insane YouTube videos targeting children with adults dressing up and doing weird clownish acts. The line between reality and acting is becoming skewed.
It is completely understandable to question any kind of indoctrination, and ideally we should have an education system that introduces the importance of questioning everything.Yet, here is where, what you would call "conservatives", continue to have a deep blindness.. the indoctrination is within every aspect of our lives, children are told of what awaits them in "hell", they are told an edited version of history that makes them support their country, how they should dress, and even how a "man" or "woman" should be. Why is any system of indoctrination acceptable? Is it because it continues the world in how one thinks it should be, or rather how it has been for so long? I believe we have the capacity to create a system where children firstly have more rights, and secondly that they choose, in time, what is best for themselves; the right of autonomy within reason to their level of awareness. Do you think it is morally acceptable that parents can or will indoctrinate their child into what they believe is a proper lifestyle? What right do you have in doing so, and what if you are wrong? The obsession with sexuality and expression within culture is avoidance of what is really at the heart of the problem, and that problem is being born into this world..

Let us look for a moment at history, to look at reality, to a time where civilization or even just America would be considered more "traditional" or more "conservative". The way in which people, and children, were indoctrinated into a world view that consistently lead to immense suffering and depravity. A very Christian world? A world in which boys had to "man up" and "clean their room", to take on roles consistently defined by someone else; but surely, it was for their own good I suppose..

breaker-boys.jpg

wwi-the-trenches-of-world-war-one.png

has_georg_henke_2.jpg

33231024585_316274542d_b.jpg

Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-08778-0001%2C_Dresden%2C_Tote_nach_Bombenangriff.jpg

soviet_soldiers_berlin_rape.jpg


Anyone who doesn't acknowledge the insanity of what mankind thinks things should be, of the way that things were.. is an obstacle to any kind of meaningful change to culture. Point to any period in history and tell me that things were "better" and I will show you otherwise. Let us "break the fantasy" of it all..
 
OP
InChristAlone

InChristAlone

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
5,955
Location
USA
I regard it as not the Christian's role to identify or comment on sin except privately where direct and interpersonal. The law itself, and the holy spirit, indeed Jesus can convict people of their sin. I am familiar with the opposing views on that issue, and the scripture they draw on. But I also see an abundance of failure in the method of rebuking sin, and success in a commitment to love the unloveable that allows Christ to do the conviction. I'm not arguing for uniformity in this topic, and I am quite comfortable respecting your take. I don't disagree with Peterson in a way he would consider disagreement. I empathize with his suffering, as he seems tortured by a fundamentally dark burden, his teaching quite lean in gratitude, awe, and hope. Indeed, he is correctly identifying aspects of what he sees when staring into the abyss. But light penetrates all darkness, and hope persists in the face of oblivion.

While there is inevitability to this cultural situation, I view the cat identity topic an example of deeply personal issues being rudely coopted into broad societal conversations. There is a huge amount of reactive political circus going on that does nobody any good. But transgenderism and related taboos are deeply personal, private issues that can only be functionally talked about on the scale of the individual, and it is to me hideous when any of these personal issues are used as lubrication in the gears of a huge impersonal machine. But alas, none of this is surprising.
Conservatives' main gripe with the LGBTQ community is it has not been deeply personal and private. It has been flagrant and flamboyant and indoctrinating. I was once heavily into social media and was on TikTok for a short while. It was constantly recommending videos of lesbians albeit I did watch them because they were eye-catching and enticing and I noticed many straight people were commenting and reacting to those videos saying they think they may be bisexual because they find this really attractive. Well yeah dress up for the camera looking all sexy with dramatic music and it's going to be enticing. But these lesbians are doing it for attention. That does not mean you need to explore your sexuality because you found that woman dressed as a man sexy. And then there have been celebrities flagrantly announcing their gender changes, getting large amounts of views and likes. I'm not sure if you realize how deep this rabbit hole goes. I tried explaining the propaganda on the other thread with the quotes from that gay activist book. This has been extremely intentional to try to push their agenda on everyone. That is why conservatives are reacting, it's being shoved down their throats everywhere and they are done playing along. My kids are homeschooled but if I found out their teacher was talking about gender identity and sexuality I'd be at that school immediately. That's pure brainwashing to introduce a kindergartener to gender identities.

With regards to rebuke I agree Christians should never rebuke non-christians, but we do have a say how much we are willing to go along with the propaganda. Keep the sex in the bedroom and let parents teach their kids how they see fit! I see it as child abuse to introduce those topics at such young ages. And grooming as well. Human trafficking is a serious thing and people are groomed I

The kids wanting to be called 'furries' and go in litter boxes is outrageous because never before in history have we affirmed fantasies like this. We know kids like to play dress up and role play, everyone knew it was make believe, there was no need to talk about whether your child really wanted to be a different gender or a different species. Maybe it's the insane YouTube videos targeting children with adults dressing up and doing weird clownish acts. The line between reality and acting is becoming skewed.
It is completely understandable to question any kind of indoctrination, and ideally we should have an education system that introduces the importance of questioning everything.Yet, here is where, what you would call "conservatives", continue to have a deep blindness.. the indoctrination is within every aspect of our lives, children are told of what awaits them in "hell", they are told an edited version of history that makes them support their country, how they should dress, and even how a "man" or "woman" should be. Why is any system of indoctrination acceptable? Is it because it continues the world in how one thinks it should be, or rather how it has been for so long? I believe we have the capacity to create a system where children firstly have more rights, and secondly that they choose, in time, what is best for themselves; the right of autonomy within reason to their level of awareness. Do you think it is morally acceptable that parents can or will indoctrinate their child into what they believe is a proper lifestyle? What right do you have in doing so, and what if you are wrong? The obsession with sexuality and expression within culture is avoidance of what is really at the heart of the problem, and that problem is being born into this world..

Let us look for a moment at history, to look at reality, to a time where civilization or even just America would be considered more "traditional" or more "conservative". The way in which people, and children, were indoctrinated into a world view that consistently lead to immense suffering and depravity. A very Christian world? A world in which boys had to "man up" and "clean their room", to take on roles consistently defined by someone else; but surely, it was for their own good I suppose..

breaker-boys.jpg

wwi-the-trenches-of-world-war-one.png

has_georg_henke_2.jpg

33231024585_316274542d_b.jpg

Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-08778-0001%2C_Dresden%2C_Tote_nach_Bombenangriff.jpg

soviet_soldiers_berlin_rape.jpg


Anyone who doesn't acknowledge the insanity of what mankind thinks things should be, of the way that things were.. is an obstacle to any kind of meaningful change to culture. Point to any period in history and tell me that things were "better" and I will show you otherwise. Let us "break the fantasy" of it all..
I'm going to have to process where you are going with this...

Just because war and child slavery were a thing in the past and America happened to be more conservative at that time does not mean that being conservative means supporting war (although it can we have seen that under Bush in our lifetime). I shouldn't even say conservative because it's a very muddied term. I do have to admit that being more on the right side of the fence does foster more of that patriotism that leads to wars, but we also need to discuss what happened in May of 2020. It was horrific and it was mostly done by those on the left side of the fence who wanted to rebel against the 'system'. So either extreme can lead to violence and victimization. To think that anyone isn't capable of violence in the right circumstances is to think you are above being human. I confess that everyone is capable of horrific sin given the right circumstance. Every single person is capable of it. We are allllllll fallen short of the glory. That is why we say we need a savior. He is our only hope at being righteous.

There is no fantasy. I am fully admitting reality. I am sinful, I need Christ. My kids rebel and are sinful, they need Christ. Being a Christ follower isn't pulling some kind of wool over your eyes, it is exposing it ALL, it is accepting reality that we are sinners and not glorifying our sin. Not saying ''Im proud to be a sinner". Pride comes before the fall. Culture says what is good is evil and what is evil is good. It's completely upside down. So yes I am praying over my kids that they will be delivered from demonic oppression that I invited into our life when I was far from God and of the mindset 'don't indoctrinate your kids let them figure it all out on their own'. How destructive and chaotic. They can choose to rebel from God all they want but I will speak Truth into their minds and not let the culture tell them what to think. Because no matter what you do our kids minds will be indoctrinated by something that is true. So there is no freedom from indoctrination. The culture says you can be whatever even if it's a cat! And Christianity says God made you in his image and God's image is one of love, of kindness, of peace, patience, compassion, mercy grace and of self control. Emphasis on self control for this topic.
 
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InChristAlone

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I don't know why my post has a double post. I'm sorry it's hard to change it on my phone.
 

Morgan

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Conservatives' main gripe with the LGBTQ community is it has not been deeply personal and private. It has been flagrant and flamboyant and indoctrinating. I was once heavily into social media and was on TikTok for a short while. It was constantly recommending videos of lesbians albeit I did watch them because they were eye-catching and enticing and I noticed many straight people were commenting and reacting to those videos saying they think they may be bisexual because they find this really attractive. Well yeah dress up for the camera looking all sexy with dramatic music and it's going to be enticing. But these lesbians are doing it for attention. That does not mean you need to explore your sexuality because you found that woman dressed as a man sexy. And then there have been celebrities flagrantly announcing their gender changes, getting large amounts of views and likes. I'm not sure if you realize how deep this rabbit hole goes. I tried explaining the propaganda on the other thread with the quotes from that gay activist book. This has been extremely intentional to try to push their agenda on everyone. That is why conservatives are reacting, it's being shoved down their throats everywhere and they are done playing along. My kids are homeschooled but if I found out their teacher was talking about gender identity and sexuality I'd be at that school immediately. That's pure brainwashing to introduce a kindergartener to gender identities.

With regards to rebuke I agree Christians should never rebuke non-christians, but we do have a say how much we are willing to go along with the propaganda. Keep the sex in the bedroom and let parents teach their kids how they see fit! I see it as child abuse to introduce those topics at such young ages. And grooming as well. Human trafficking is a serious thing and people are groomed I

The kids wanting to be called 'furries' and go in litter boxes is outrageous because never before in history have we affirmed fantasies like this. We know kids like to play dress up and role play, everyone knew it was make believe, there was no need to talk about whether your child really wanted to be a different gender or a different species. Maybe it's the insane YouTube videos targeting children with adults dressing up and doing weird clownish acts. The line between reality and acting is becoming skewed.

I'm going to have to process where you are going with this...

Just because war and child slavery were a thing in the past and America happened to be more conservative at that time does not mean that being conservative means supporting war (although it can we have seen that under Bush in our lifetime). I shouldn't even say conservative because it's a very muddied term. I do have to admit that being more on the right side of the fence does foster more of that patriotism that leads to wars, but we also need to discuss what happened in May of 2020. It was horrific and it was mostly done by those on the left side of the fence who wanted to rebel against the 'system'. So either extreme can lead to violence and victimization. To think that anyone isn't capable of violence in the right circumstances is to think you are above being human. I confess that everyone is capable of horrific sin given the right circumstance. Every single person is capable of it. We are allllllll fallen short of the glory. That is why we say we need a savior. He is our only hope at being righteous.

There is no fantasy. I am fully admitting reality. I am sinful, I need Christ. My kids rebel and are sinful, they need Christ. Being a Christ follower isn't pulling some kind of wool over your eyes, it is exposing it ALL, it is accepting reality that we are sinners and not glorifying our sin. Not saying ''Im proud to be a sinner". Pride comes before the fall. Culture says what is good is evil and what is evil is good. It's completely upside down. So yes I am praying over my kids that they will be delivered from demonic oppression that I invited into our life when I was far from God and of the mindset 'don't indoctrinate your kids let them figure it all out on their own'. How destructive and chaotic. They can choose to rebel from God all they want but I will speak Truth into their minds and not let the culture tell them what to think. Because no matter what you do our kids minds will be indoctrinated by something that is true. So there is no freedom from indoctrination. The culture says you can be whatever even if it's a cat! And Christianity says God made you in his image and God's image is one of love, of kindness, of peace, patience, compassion, mercy grace and of self control. Emphasis on self control for this topic.
If you admit that there is evil in the world, that we are born into sin, that there is no freedom from indoctrination, and that you feel the need to pray over them or for their salvation; why then, bring them into this world at all? If there is even a chance that your child will walk away from "God" to spend eternity in "hell", wouldn't it be better to not be born at all?

To clarifying my post, how we indoctrinate people and the way we treat gender will, and has had, profound impacts on the process of civilization. Now, whether that was even our choice or a product of deterministic factors is an important question. The issue of "trans" is an outcome or even a reaction of these systems imposed upon us. A man or boy may wish to have a "feminine" expression, to hear the words "beautiful", only to have themselves be rejected by a banal culture; violently even, and so they may say to themselves "I'm not a boy, I'm a girl" it order to fit in with the incessant dichotomy that is foisted upon them. Alternatively, there are individuals who are genuinely transgender or even non binary, and can only affirm their life by making changes to their being.. This is inherently a difficult decision that takes time to process and understand, it is not something that most children will even have the self awareness to properly assess. The anecdotes posited within the pointless "left/right" paradigm will not cease, because culture does not want to change and needs controversy to distract itself from deep rooted issues; it is a defense mechanism in support of the only system we know how to live under.
 
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InChristAlone

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If you admit that there is evil in the world, that we are born into sin, that there is no freedom from indoctrination, and that you feel the need to pray over them or for their salvation; why then, bring them into this world at all? If there is even a chance that your child will walk away from "God" to spend eternity in "hell", wouldn't it be better to not be born at all?

To clarifying my post, how we indoctrinate people and the way we treat gender will, and has had, profound impacts on the process of civilization. Now, whether that was even our choice or a product of deterministic factors is an important question. The issue of "trans" is an outcome or even a reaction of these systems imposed upon us. A man or boy may wish to have a "feminine" expression, to hear the words "beautiful", only to have themselves be rejected by a banal culture; violently even, and so they may say to themselves "I'm not a boy, I'm a girl" it order to fit in with the incessant dichotomy that is foisted upon them. Alternatively, there are individuals who are genuinely transgender or even non binary, and can only affirm their life by making changes to their being.. This is inherently a difficult decision that takes time to process and understand, it is not something that most children will even have the self awareness to properly assess. The anecdotes posited within the pointless "left/right" paradigm will not cease, because culture does not want to change and needs controversy to distract itself from deep rooted issues; it is a defense mechanism in support of the only system we know how to live under.
You must have the same demonic oppression as my son because my son has said similar things. 'Why be born at all?' 'why live if you have to experience suffering?' I seem to attract this because I do have a conscientious heart and compassion towards people who feel they are themselves worthless instead of that they have sin. And my son didn't have any religious indoctrination, except whatever he has seen on YouTube. He was free to explore whatever he wanted, unfortunately that led to him being suicidal. No matter what I said about how much we love him and how much worth he has it never brought him out. What DID end up helping him was not enabling it, if he was going on about feeling worthless we took it as a cry for attention and we have been building him up at other times, not when he is saying he wants to die. When we played armchair therapist it only enabled him to be like that even more. And we have been giving him more of a purpose, having him take more responsibility, having more structure. And he HAS pushed back on this because before he was free to do whatever he wanted most of his life as we homeschool and were a part of the 'be whatever you want to be' conscious parenting community. It was a complete and utter failure for him. He's on the spectrum and enabling him to do whatever all day nearly destroyed his life. He had no purpose. Some people will not thrive on no structure and motherly devouring compassion as Jordan Peterson puts it. It was enmeshment. It can destroy boys lives. The opposite is the narcissistic mother who is controlling. Either extreme leads to suffering. I see it it many people how their mothers or father may have raised them. But we are all sinful so even if you had great parents we can be under demonic oppression.


Dear Father I come to you with humbleness, we aren't worthy of life, we fall short of your glory, so we praise you for sending your son to die for us so that we may also have life. Please Lord God deliver Morgan of any spirit of suicide, of any evil that oppresses, I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
 

parallax

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He does not condemn the accused but he does softly rebuke. Those who are quickened by the spirit will clearly see their sin and how severe it is, creating an unfathomable distance between the sinful creature and the holy and righteous creator God. The believer in Christ, being regenerated by the spirit, is dead to sin and is no longer bound by it (see Romans 6). “If ye love me, Keep my commandments” John 14:15. See also Luke 6:46-49. Only through the synergistic work of sanctification (via the believer and the Holy Spirit) can one begin to live according to God’s law. We know that justification comes through grace alone through faith in Christ alone but this regeneration empowers the Christian to good works which follow regeneration (Ephesians 2:10).

In this scripture (which FWIW is not found in many of the oldest manuscripts), Christ does not condemn the sinner, who very well may have repented and believed unto salvation, however our Lord now “sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead”. Christ will judge all on that final day, and we know all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), all were born in sin (Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-21), and that only those sealed in Christ and covered with his perfect righteousness will stand in judgment.

As far as saying that no one can win the fight, this matter of transgenderism is theological at heart. Romans 1:18-32 perfectly sums up the state of the world especially regarding such matters. God created man in his image, man and women he created them (Genesis 1:27) and in the dominion mandate commanded them to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:28). He established marriage between man and woman (Gen 2:23-25) and has given instruction for God-honoring marriage in scripture (Ephesians 5:22-33).

Just as God’s purposes will never be thwarted, his enemies ultimately will be in the end, and in the judgement. Praise be to God for this blessed truth!
A trap is set by the Pharisees to confine Jesus to one of two fatal choices, Jesus writes in the soil and takes a narrow path that diverges from the obvious binary, and we focus on the sin of the accused who was being used as bait. This is the identity-worthiness mistake that I am trying to suggest, which is also strongly summarized by your second paragraph.

When I said that no can win this fight I am referring to the current cultural dispute and how it is being discussed. I am saying that it will not be won because both parties cannot afford to lose, so that it can only be won when it is no longer a fight. That is, with love this issue can be resolved. As a battle it can only spiral onwards.

I am not commenting on the sinfulness or otherwise of transgenderism or otherwise. I am suggesting there is a narrow path, though few there be that find it.
 

parallax

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"To clarifying my post, how we indoctrinate people and the way we treat gender will, and has had, profound impacts on the process of civilization. Now, whether that was even our choice or a product of deterministic factors is an important question. The issue of "trans" is an outcome or even a reaction of these systems imposed upon us. A man or boy may wish to have a "feminine" expression, to hear the words "beautiful", only to have themselves be rejected by a banal culture; violently even, and so they may say to themselves "I'm not a boy, I'm a girl" it order to fit in with the incessant dichotomy that is foisted upon them."
Well said.
 
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InChristAlone

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God see us as a whole person and not our gender. That is why we need to have our identity be in Christ. That solves any issue with wanting people to affirm you.
 
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InChristAlone

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We also need to recognize that not everyone who has gender dysphoria was socially rejected or had any kind of serious trauma in their life. This lady Sophia Galvin grew up in an LGBTQ family and her peers were accepting of her wanting to be a man (even though she says she was always very feminine). She took the testosterone and was being supported in her transition to a man. She got the double mastectomy and noted she didn't feel great about it. Her life didn't get better as she kept going with more and more changes and on more and more testosterone. She said age was definitely a factor she was 14 when she made the decision and that she did have second thoughts but she didn't want to look ridiculous so she kept going with it. She was led to believe this was going to be her saving grace and she would be applauded for it. What they don't tell you is that using testosterone has side effects, you get really angry and your mind is all foggy. You also will have to live with the some of the effects for the rest of your life. That's because changing your gender biologically isn't possible. The doctors working with her and Planned Parenthood were absolutely at fault. She detransitioned before she found God. Her message to young people: changing your gender won't lead to satisfaction.


John 6:60-71
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
 
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InChristAlone

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"What could possibly be the justification for telling small boys that they might really be girls and telling small girls that they might really be boys? The biggest hint I got to the answer came from talking to detransitioners. Remember, these are young women who underwent transition and then later regretted it. Again and again, they told me that while they were transitioning, they were angry, they were sullen, and they were politically radical. They very often cut off their families. They were coached in this by transgender influencers online. And they rushed toward their new glitter families. You'll often see gender confused people among the ranks of Antifa or at Black Lives Matter rallies. Having turned against their families of origin, they are easy prey for those who recruit revolutionaries. Put another way, the chaos is the point. Just as the point of critical race theory is to turn the American people against one another, so the point of gender ideology is to stop the formation of stable families, the building blocks of American life. Let me say this again. This is not the goal of all transgender adults, but it is the goal of gender ideology and the transgender movement, namely the creation of a new victim class eager to join the revolution."

 

Tarmander

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Was a good interview. Wish JP had let her talk a bit more. That is usually my gripe with his interviews.
 

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